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Minnow
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Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Lost Wages
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Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
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Baja crime and corruption
Check out this thread. It will make you totally rethink driving through TJ.
http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36344
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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Bajaboy
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Posts: 4375
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Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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Minnow-
I scanned through most of these posts and there definitely is a pattern. The cops target the race crews and the race crews pay the mordida. It sucks
all the way around in my opinion. Don't pay the mordida! If you are guilty, pay at the station.
Zac
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
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Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Such is the Way of Life in the Third-World.
The problems being worried over have been endemic to Third-World Urban areas since long before I was born. The difference now is simply one of
numbers as a result of growing population which cannot be supported by legitimate economic activity.
Really, though, it is something of a Win-Win proposition for those of us who travel and live without injury in Baja. As long as they're feeding off
of those who are the most attractive financial targets and others who use poor judgement, they make enough to leave alone those of us who are careful
and cautious. If the authorities crack down on one channel of behavior, they'll look for another, possibly where I'M at.
Long ago, I quit travelling anywhere in Baja at night or in the early morning. I stay out of questionable areas of town and constantly watch for
impending trouble.
So Far, So Good.
I'll STILL pay the Mordida. As long as it's reasonable, of course.
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Minnow
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Bill, when the Races are not in Baja, these people will have to look elsewhere for targets. That is one thread from Baja Race people, to think this
is not happening ever other day to regular people and tourists is silly. Look at all the other carjackings recently.
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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wilderone
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Registered: 2-9-2004
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" It will make you totally rethink driving through TJ."
Your analysis of the problem is way off the mark. It's being a young, male, gringo who expects to be tapped for mordida and then complies - word gets
around fast, and then it's considered "normal" as one of those fools stated. And being obviously, visibly connected to the race scene is just putting
a "kick me" label on yourself.
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
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Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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Thank god for that edit button once in a while - eh?
Please everyone be extra extra careful this next coming month. Crime is way up and job security is way down. Everyone in Rosarito is on edge as the
new gov't takes control and people still don't know if they have the job next week that they have today. (the new gov't awards all the "palacio"
government jobs to their friends and supporters- obviously lack of education and skill sets are not a problem).
Christmas is coming and that puts a lot of extra pressure on the men to bring home the gifts. Kids are kids and this close to the border they watch
USA TV commercials and want just what the american kids want. Just be extra vigilant becasue this holiday season will be different.
If I hadn't rented out my place in Colorado I'd head for the hills myself.
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Roberto
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Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
" It will make you totally rethink driving through TJ."
Your analysis of the problem is way off the mark. It's being a young, male, gringo who expects to be tapped for mordida and then complies - word gets
around fast, and then it's considered "normal" as one of those fools stated. And being obviously, visibly connected to the race scene is just putting
a "kick me" label on yourself. |
Not sure what your point is. Are you saying you've never been tapped? TJ cops target ALL americans, and not just them. I don't pay, I make it clear
that I have all the time in the world to wait for the judge, but that doesn't stop them from hitting on me.
I realize you don't like the race guys, and feel they are getting what they deserve, but keep in mind that a lot of these folks don't know much about
Baja at all, and are scared chitless when they get stopped. They don't understand the system. But, then again, neither do any of the occasional
tourists. How does that change the corruption of the cops?
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MrsFDT
Junior Nomad
Posts: 86
Registered: 5-1-2006
Location: State of Confusion
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| Quote: | "...We crossed the boarder at about 6:20am,
still dark. They pulled us into secondary on the mexican side and I was in the passenger seat. There were two boarder guys on the driver side and one
on my side. The guy on my side pulled out his cell phone and was talking to someone. He looked really out of place and was shaking really bad while he
was on the phone.
As we pulled out I had bad feeling in my gut as we proceeded to head out of town. I told Benny who was driving to follow the speed limit and don't put
a wheel out of place. As we made our way up the hill out of TJ and then down the bottom, the road veers right to get on the road that will take you to
Ensenada. As soon as we made the veer to the right a cop car pulled right up behind us and put his lights on.
It was still dark and no cars in sight. After hearing the stories of the surfers we were not going to stop. It was in the same place. I told Benny to
keep driving and get us to the first toll booth because at least there would be people there. He came up next to us light flashing and sirens going
off. It was one of the worst feelings all of us ever felt. I told Benny to keep driving, don't look at them and just get us to the toll booth.
The cop car had tinted windows, which I thought was strange as well and the passanger window was cracked. He then dropped back and everytime he would
make an attempt to come up along side us Benny would pinch him off, still going the speed limit. As we approached the first toll booth he turned his
lights off and turned around..."
posted by Ryan Arciero |
This truly gave me chills. Mex customs and the black car cops? I see them constantly around town too. To think they made me nervous before..... Only
because I dont know who they are, not because I have ever had any look in my direction. I have only been pulled over once in Tijuana in my 14 years
and that was because I was driving a U-hual with Ca Plates. So I count my blessings and drive as little as possible.
I re read this and realized it didnt say black car just tinted windows. Sorry, The only ones Ive ever seen with tinted windows were the black unmarked
vehicles.
[Edited on 11-21-2007 by MrsFDT]
Following FDT wherever the Baja wind takes him.... That is, if its going in the same direction I am.
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BajaNomad
Super Administrator
Posts: 4994
Registered: 8-1-2002
Location: San Diego, CA
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Mood: INTP-A
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
...being... visibly connected to the race scene is just putting a "kick me" label on yourself. |
...keep in mind that a lot of these folks don't know much about Baja at all, and are scared chitless when they get stopped. They don't understand the
system. But, then again, neither do any of the occasional tourists. |
Certain things can absolutely become a
visual "trigger" gaining the attention of the authorities.
"Energy goes where attention flows..."
Most of us understand that driving a red sports car around will bring attention to us - including from the authorities, and thusly an increased risk
of moving violations, etc.
From my own varied activities in Baja California, another common visual trigger for authorities (to note) are surfboards you're transporting (that are
visible). As well: many of these folks fall into the description provided by Roberto.
--
Doug
[Edited on 11-21-2007 by BajaNomad]
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
Affordable Domain Name Registration/Management & cPanel Web Hosting:
https://www.regionalinternet.com |
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Minnow
Banned
Posts: 1110
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Lost Wages
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Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaNomad
]Certain things can absolutely become a visual "trigger" gaining the attention of the authorities.
"Energy goes where attention flows..."
Most of us understand that driving a red sports car around will bring attention to us - including from the authorities, and thusly an increased risk
of moving violations, etc.
From my own varied activities in Baja California, another common visual trigger for authorities (to note) are surfboards you're transporting (that are
visible). As well: many of these folks fall into the description provided by Roberto.
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Or towing a boat, Driving/Towing an RV, ATC's, Motorcycles, Ect; Basically anything that people go to Baja with.
Well that is just great. Expect to be pulled over if you fit any of the above. Better yet, expect to be called STUPID, for doing it with no sympathy
whatsoever from the authorities, or the people on this board.
What is boils down to with that kind of logic, is that it is your fault for going there, not the criminals.
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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Bajajack
Banned
Posts: 370
Registered: 5-20-2007
Location: Arizona
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Corruption and Violence is the Mexican way of life, their way, anywhere in Mexico. It's just finally gotten to the point of being overwhelming, to us,
but not them.
How many American that live there or visit often have ignored it all these years because they were'nt personally affected?
The only way it will ever stop or even slow down is if the US Government would put enough pressure on the Mexican Government and thats not gonna
happen.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajajack
The only way it will ever stop or even slow down is if the US Government would put enough pressure on the Mexican Government and thats not gonna
happen. |
We should probably hope not. Nobody likes to be pressured and that is even more true between Mexico and the US.
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Roberto
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To follow up on the above, here is a quote from the same thread that Minnow provided a link to:
| Quote: |
TJ is a joke and for them to consider themselves law enforcement is even more of a joke. There is nothing you can do but give in in those situations
because you know if they are that crooked to begin with it will only get worse if you dont pay. The onlything you can do is NOT GO.
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THIS is how most of these eeevil racers feel. I urge you not to judge, many of these folks are some of the best people you will ever encounter, ready
to give you the shirt off their backs if you need help. And let's also remember that they are there to race. Yes, many go fast on Mex 1, but often it
is to get to their race vehicle that needs them in the middle of some godforsaken spot in the middle of nowhere at oh-dark thirty. And finally, they
do all this (almost universally) without pay. In fact, they are lucky if the team covers their gas and lodging. They are doing something they love and
make great sacrifices for.
The mordida thing has been going on for years - but it has reached a new dimension where subtle threats, cuffings, and other methods are used to
extract hundreds and even thousands of dollars.
I recently had to make an "emergency" trip to San Pedro Martir to help some friends, and found myself faced with the prospect of driving "the
gauntlet" at 4:00 AM. I went through TJ instead, and joined the toll road at Rosarito. No incidents, but I was stopped by one of these scumbag cops
for "not coming to a full stop" at an intersection. 
He was stunned when I told him that
a) I had no money
b) I was perfectly willing to wait for the judge to show up the next morning.
c) Even if I did have money, I wasn't going to give it to him.
He tried to argue with me for 20 minutes or so, pointing out that he wanted to "help" me (he spoke no English, and I spoke no Spanish on this
particular occasion). I thanked him, but suggested that if he wanted to be more successful in helping gringos, he should work on his English. 
But all this is really besides the point, because I'm sure my lifted and decked-out F350 draws attention as well, and I could have crossed a REALLY
crooked cop who pulled a gun on me, not to mention one of these groups with guns. I'll tell you this, I am really starting to doubt the wisdom of
traveling in Baja. I haven't quite gotten to the boycott point, and the idea of not going south is hard to contemplate, but I'm getting there. I will
also tell you something else - I ain't stopping for one of these holdups. I will do my best to avoid them, but if it comes to it, I will use every
pound of my 8,500 truck.
And, when this kind of stuff happens to the McMillin race team, and Mark Miller, whose VW Touareg SCORE recently modified their rules to admit,
someone will get an earful, and it ain't gonna be a powerless individual like myself complaining.
Whether it changes anything or not, remains to be seen, but I am hopeful.
[Edited on 11-21-2007 by Roberto]
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Woooosh
Banned
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Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
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Why not cancel NAFTA and re-negotiatie a deal that holds all sides accountable.
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Yakfishing
Junior Nomad
Posts: 72
Registered: 3-2-2007
Location: N. Hollywood, CA
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Mood: Onshore wishing I was offshore
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Visual Triggers
When I go to Baja, I'm carrying two kayaks on top of my truck.
I call them mordida magnets...
"Mordida Magnet"
That's what I'll name my real (non-tupperware) boat when I get one!
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Only Mexico can fix this
| Quote: | Originally posted by Minnow
expect to be called STUPID, for doing it with no sympathy whatsoever from the authorities, or the people on this board.
What is boils down to with that kind of logic, is that it is your fault for going there, not the criminals. |
And unless/until they do, your options are limited. Weigh and accept the risk...or not. Just the way it is. Life ain't fair.
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3494
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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Got the sheep and got the hunters
| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by Minnow
expect to be called STUPID, for doing it with no sympathy whatsoever from the authorities, or the people on this board.
What is boils down to with that kind of logic, is that it is your fault for going there, not the criminals. |
And unless/until they do, your options are limited. Weigh and accept the risk...or not. Just the way it is. Life ain't fair. |
I drive an RV, tow a car, and have surfboards on top. And I don't give a ****. Like Roberto, there's a time to be respectful, and a time to stand
up and say I've got nothing but time and willing to speak with the Judge, let's go.
I don't expect to have 2 cars and a dozen heavily armed men force me off the toll-road during the day. If you're not prepared to ''negotiate''
with law enforcement in Baja, you might want to learn in advance or go somewhere else.
Depending on my mood, I will consider mordida if I'm in the wrong, but a total shakedown won't happen. * them and let's go to the mat.
[Edited on 11-22-2007 by Hose A]
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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Bajajack
Banned
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Registered: 5-20-2007
Location: Arizona
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I've been going down for what feels like forever and have so far figured out how to get myself out of the bad situations and there have been a few
through the year's.
This takes time and experience which the average newguy fresh from reading all the Baja travel brochures does'nt have.
He probably has the wife and or girlfriend along, maybe some kids too, he has no idea what to do when a problem presents itself.
The whole situation needs to be addressed by more of us complaining and stressing the problems with anyone who will listen.
If we scream loud enough sooner or latter someone higher up will have to take notice.
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajajack
If we scream loud enough sooner or latter someone higher up will have to take notice. |
Good luck with that. As long as we keep going down, NOTHING will happen, regardless of how loud we scream. And, we don't scream very loud either - in
many cases we don't even refuse to pay the mordida because we're in too much of a rush to get to our vacation spot.
Even a boycott is unlikely to change things IMO. In short, we're flocked.
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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right now the cartels are running the show here in Baja north and south and most of Mexico. they don't give a darn about tourism or us that live here.
unless you can hit them where it hurts nothing will change.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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