BajaNomad - Pound for Pound

Pound for Pound

castaway$ - 11-29-2007 at 11:21 PM

The wife and I got into a little argument over the toughest fighting fish pound for pound, I said Dorado she said Trigger fish? I gotta admit the little buggers fight on light tackle but maybe I need to look for a tougher fishing partner! Don't tell her I posted this. :spingrin:

Sallysouth - 11-30-2007 at 12:53 AM

I hate catching Trigers. Pain in the but, boring, and IMHO, yukky to eat.Right there with ya Whistler!Some folks think they are good Cei vce.Tough, but thats just my HO

tunaeater - 11-30-2007 at 01:28 AM

I will have to go with Bonita

Howard - 11-30-2007 at 02:27 AM

Bonita the Yellowtail

capt. mike - 11-30-2007 at 04:57 AM

jurels as far as my arms say.

fishbuck - 11-30-2007 at 06:24 AM

I had the good fortune to go on a trip out of San Diego 1.5 day party fishing boat. We go on top of A herd of bluefin. The smallest ones were 50 lbs and a few over 100.
I caught 3. 2@65 lbs and 1@75 lbs.
I caught the 1st 2 on a 1 speed 50 lbs rig. I broke the reel handle so I caught the last one on 30 lbs line.
I was done fishing after that even though the bite was still on. My arms were dead.
Bluefin are tough. I think a tuna has a couple more runs in him than a yellowtail.
It would be hard to imagine how hard a 75 lb jurel would fight. Especially if he could see the bottom.

[Edited on 11-30-2007 by fishbuck]

Cypress - 11-30-2007 at 07:18 AM

Triggerfish are really fighters. :spingrin:

Ladyfish, for their size, put up a good fight.

Pescador - 11-30-2007 at 07:21 AM

In terms of Baja fish, there is no question about the pulling power of the yellowtail who lives on the reef. The yellowtail that live on the pacific side are commonly landed with lighter lines and while they can swim fast, they do not have the toe-to-toe pulling power of reef dwelling yellowtail. This year on the north end of San Marcos Island, a larger sized fish has moved in and all of the knowledgeable fisherman have gone to either 60 or80 lb line and are still only managing to land a percentage of the fish that take a live bait very near the bottom and this is happening with drags that measure 20 to 45 lbs. When we put a newbie on a fish, they envariably comment that the fish has to be close to 75 lbs even if they have had a lot of long range fishing experience.
In the same vein, large rock dwelling pargo and probably close if not actually a little stronger and when they hit a surface bait, very few fish are actually landed before they put you in the rocks.
Tuna, which pull very hard are an entirely different story and they usually are landed by wearing them down since they are caught in deeper water, then line capacity allows you to slowly wear the fish down while operating on relatively lower drag settings. A 30 lb tuna simply does not have the pulling power of a 30 lb yellowtail even though they do last a lot longer and pull for a much longer period of time.

Always a fun ?

baitcast - 11-30-2007 at 07:25 AM

Not all tuna,s are alike imo the bluefin is a breed apart a freight train with fins.

How about a Toro,think a 30# never say die bonita

Or a 10# ladyfish on light stuff,a big favorite of mine,its just boils down to what qualities you are looking for in a fish.
BAITCAST

Osprey - 11-30-2007 at 07:29 AM

There must not be any Pez Fuerte where you people fish. The first couple of runs of a big amberjack will shiver your timbers. Tuna blood is 85º, a lot warmer than most game/food fish so they are undoubtably among the quickest/strongest. I'm also happy just to run into a big school of Toros, Jack Cravelle for power and fun. It's all good.

Oso - 11-30-2007 at 08:01 AM

Fight aside, I guess I'm strange (no surprise there) but I actually prefer Triggers for eating, either in ceviche or pan-fried filets. I enjoy the "meatiness" of the consistency. The big deal every year here at the top end of the Cortez is Corvina or "Curbina" and the El Golfo pangueros haul in tons while the run is on. I'm just not that crazy about it- too mushy. BTW, our cat is of the same opinion; indifferent to Corvina, turns up her nose at canned Tuna or Salmon but goes ape over chopped raw "Cochito".

backninedan - 11-30-2007 at 08:11 AM

Pound for pound Triggers. They are also my favorite fish to eat.

Iflyfish - 11-30-2007 at 08:38 AM

For me it's all relative to the weight of the rod. I have been faught to a standstill by a ten pound Kamloops on my five weight fly rod. Ditto for a twenty pound steelhead that did headstands and summersaults. The 68 pound bull dorado I landed faught harder than the 263 lb blue marlin that I caught in Barre de Navidad. The fifty pound yellow tail I landed with Juan in Asuncion faught well, powerful and sulky like a big king salmon, nearly spooled me out with it's explosive runs, Juan had to back the boat up to the fish to keep me from spooling out on my medium weight rod with 50 lb test mono.

For me one of the gamier fish is the shad on light tackle. They are shaped like a tarpon and will get sideways to you in the current and shake their head as vehamently as the high school chear leader I asked out in my freshman year.

Like Osprey says, it's all good! Keep your tip up!

Iflyfish

Don Alley - 11-30-2007 at 08:38 AM

I think maybe the local barrilete, or maybe bonito. Or yellowtail, or dog snappers. Or all the jack family fish. Or roosterfish.

The hardest I've pulled is on yellowtail, but if I had to keep a 30lb dorado, or a sailfish, from pulling 30 feet of line to rock me then they might pull hard too. Then there is the Baja Mystery Fish, you know, the one that hits and and is gone before you can figure out what it was. :lol:

Triggerfish? Maybe, but they're so small. Maybe if I got on a 25-30 lb trigger they'd rank with the yellowtail.

To elaborate on Skipjack's thoughts on yellowtail, I believe the all tackle record was caught on Baja's west coast on a long range San Diego boat, and weighed over 100 lbs. It was caught on 30 lb line!

Oso - 11-30-2007 at 08:59 AM

I bet my Uncle Fish (That's what everybody called him) could top the light line record if a category for this existed- I was 11 yrs old and we were fishing for Snook at the inlet that separates Sannibel and Captiva islands off Ft. Myers, FL. with spinning rods with maybe 10# line. My uncle hooked a ladyfish and was reeling it in when a big gator glommed onto it. I can't remember how big the gator was but I'm pretty sure it was full-grown. Anyway, neither the gator nor Uncle Fish would let go. It took him more than half an hour but he finally "landed" the gator on the beach. We looked around trying to find someone with a camera without luck, but several tourists saw it. Gators were protected back then and there really wasn't anything practical to do about it but reluctantly cut the line. The gator swallowed the fish, hook and all and went back in the water. BTW, those Snook were great fun to catch with beautiful leaps etc.

baitcast - 11-30-2007 at 09:16 AM

The whole jack family as a group are something else,I ran into the travally I think at Enewetok atoll,they weren,t all that big we could not handle those things with heavy hand lines,the hooks would always straighten out so I lined out three side by side and wired the shanks together,but when we would one close something would always eat him :lol:

But then he is a jack also,amagine a 20# or 30# trigger :lol:

BAITCAST

castaway$ - 11-30-2007 at 10:18 AM

I agree that YT's probably are numero uno for pull. Yellowfin also pull well with burning speed on the first run. I picked Dorado because I really like the acrobatics and they can be very challenging on light gear. As far as eating goes for me it's Wahoo and Cabrilla, Both make great BBQ or taco's.

Skipjack Joe - 11-30-2007 at 11:34 AM

Jack Crevalle gets my vote. And I've pulled plenty of yellowtails off submerged reefs.

Trevally and Crevalle are virtually the same fish, just bigger. The same broadside power generated by swimming at right angles to the fishermen.

[Edited on 11-30-2007 by Skipjack Joe]

vacaenbaja - 11-30-2007 at 12:59 PM

I'm with Osprey and
Pescador. The reef yellowtail are indeed a world apart in the fight that they put up. Just got a 40 pounder in Asuncion and it was quite a battle.
I used to fish a lot of Marlin out of the East Cape and was always surprised and impressed by the fight that the Jack Cravel or Pez Fuerte (hence its name?) would put up.
They were never very large, and always caught while trolling
for bill fish, but boy they sure put on a few long and strong rod bending runs.

baitcast - 11-30-2007 at 01:46 PM

I think what it boils down to is if you see a forked tail just figure he,s a tough dude :lol:

Would love to hook a amberjack sometime though.
BAITCAST

Tomas Tierra - 11-30-2007 at 01:54 PM

"pound for pound"

A #30 Sheepshead will outpull (IMHO) any other #30 fish in the Ocean..He may not pull for very long, but the initial bite and run are outrageous..

Diver - 11-30-2007 at 02:06 PM

Big Baracuda anyone ?? :biggrin:

Don Alley - 11-30-2007 at 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Jack Crevalle gets my vote. And I've pulled plenty of yellowtails off submerged reefs.

Trevally and Crevalle are virtually the same fish, just bigger. The same broadside power generated by swimming at right angles to the fishermen.

[Edited on 11-30-2007 by Skipjack Joe]

Here's a pic of a bluefin trevally caught near Zihuatenejo, where they're unusual. I've never seen one as far north as Loreto but I think a few are sometime caught around Cabo. A jack, and very similar to a jack crevalle(toro), and also a great fighter. I'd like to tangle with the big boys, the giant trevally, someday in the other side of the pond.

[Edited on 11-30-2007 by Don Alley]

baitcast - 11-30-2007 at 02:27 PM

A fishing hero of mine the late Zane Gray said of all the fish he had ever caught the swordfish was by far away the toughest he had ever caught,in one of his books he and his brother hooked a sword off Catalina early pm stayed with that fish well into the night by following the line with a seachlight only to discover the damn thing started chasing flying fish.

Exhaustion set in for the two so it was time to cut the fish loose,near midnight

this was something that Gray never did,and may have been the only time.

vandenberg - 11-30-2007 at 02:55 PM

How about the "Pelican" fish.
Caught one going out of the La Paz harbor and never had that much fun fishing in my life. The critter circled the boat for half an hour before I got it close enough for the skipper to get the lure out of his bill.
Like flying a great looking kite without too much wind :biggrin:

[Edited on 11-30-2007 by vandenberg]

baitcast - 11-30-2007 at 03:16 PM

In the very early days even before my time :biggrin:

bluefin fishing off Catalina island was very good and fish up to 300# were common so the Avalon tuna club was born.

The early reels were singular action wrist busters with large thumb stalls and heavy gloves linen line,how they pulled that off is beyond me.

Gray was a pioneer in developement of the drag sytems and paid a swedish toolmaker to build one for him,cost a meager 1500$ :lol:

Those fish also went by the name "horse mackeral"

Pound for pound..............

Hook - 11-30-2007 at 03:54 PM

...........fishermen are the biggest liars on the planet. :lol:

Roberto - 11-30-2007 at 04:40 PM

Reef yellowtail don't pull any harder, they just have the reef to wrap you around on. Kinda lilke a dog snapper in a reef.

In the open water, you are fighting YT one-on-one, and they fight well.

IMO, bluefin are up there in terms of pull. They will kick your ass and take you around the boat. Anything over 50lbs will bring an adult to their knees. Marlin jump and shake their head, but I don't think they actually pull that hard, especially considering their size. Dorado don't pull either, comparatively speaking, they jump and shake their head when out of the water and throw the hook.

Don Alley - 11-30-2007 at 05:40 PM

Catalina Island, California...

I've caught striped marlin there, and caught them in Baja. The Catalina fish were smaller but fought much harder than the Baja fish. I even got spooled with 40lb (old dacron) on a Senator once near Catalina.

Bonito I used to catch around Anacapa (Oxnard/Ventura) pulled harder than the Catalina models of the same size.

Some say it's the colder water. If so, I'll pass on the 600lb bluefin off Nova Scotia.

Reef yellowtail: How hard the fish pulls is related to how hard the fisherman pulls. If I can find ylowtail on top, off the reefs, I drop down to lighter tackle, and neither one of us pulls as hard.

cpg - 11-30-2007 at 05:53 PM

Pound for Pound I vote for Bonita for sure.

comitan - 11-30-2007 at 05:59 PM

Toro-Toro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Skipjack Joe - 11-30-2007 at 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Alley
How hard the fish pulls is related to how hard the fisherman pulls.

Very true!

If you strike a bonefish and give it slack line immediately it won't even run off. It will just stay there. I've tried it many times.

It's one of the biggest beefs I have with PETA. They claim that the animal is in such pain it struggles to remove it. In fact, just give it total freedom and it stops the struggle, hook or no hook. What fish really object to is a loss of freedom. Much like a wild bronco that experiences a rider for the first time. But maybe the people at PETA are against that too. Have I just spoiled this thread?

fishbuck - 11-30-2007 at 06:40 PM

What kind of bait or lure do you use to catch a Peta? Do they fight hard?

Skipjack Joe - 11-30-2007 at 06:44 PM

Ohhhh.... they are tenacious.

vacaenbaja - 11-30-2007 at 08:20 PM

Manta rays anyone? A good variety of contenders and opinions. Looks like there are lots of great fish out there good for the pulling. I have always been intrigued by the machaca de mantaraya that I have seen for sale in
La Paz. Has anyone ever tasted this or seen it anywhere else beside La Paz?

DENNIS - 11-30-2007 at 10:02 PM

You're all heartless. If they weren't fish, you'd probably waterboard them.

Tomas Tierra - 11-30-2007 at 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vacaenbaja
Manta rays anyone? A good variety of contenders and opinions. Looks like there are lots of great fish out there good for the pulling. I have always been intrigued by the machaca de mantaraya that I have seen for sale in
La Paz. Has anyone ever tasted this or seen it anywhere else beside La Paz?

I have eaten fresh manta ray in central Baja several times, it's DELICOUS.never as Machaca though. I've also seen it for sale (fresh, well:?

at the mercado negro in Ensenda. Never hung one, not sure if they "bite"

Oso - 12-1-2007 at 10:36 AM

What's called mantaraya is usually stingray "wings" and yes, you can hook them. I've never heard of anyone catching a giant manta ray. Now and then some of my employees will get together for some "manta". Usually a guy from Nayarit cooks it on a "disco" (like a big wok) mixed with vegetables. It won't hold together as filets. It tastes pretty good in tacos but I always have to get past the fact that it smells like cat food.

Hook - 12-1-2007 at 10:58 AM

Now that you guys have mentioned it, a "mud marlin" has got to be up there, pound for pound. What a fight!

By mud marlin, I mean a bat ray.

Tomas Tierra - 12-1-2007 at 11:13 AM

The mantaraya I ate was out of a net, I saw the animal. Kinda sad, but what are you going to do, it's dead. Eat it! Similar prep though, fried in the disco (what isn't?). I took a piece back to camp and cooked it thenext day on the barbie with Old Bay spice. Very different and delicous. Big , long strands of meat..when cooking, it holds together fairly well, some of the "strands" will peel away. kinda like triple thick spaghetti. Nothing else like it that I have eaten..

comitan - 12-1-2007 at 11:51 AM

Manta Ray, yes hooked one fishing from an inflatable, never knew I had him till he broke the water not 10ft from us,or it could have been a Grand Piano!

Hook - 12-1-2007 at 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
Manta Ray, yes hooked one fishing from an inflatable, never knew I had him till he broke the water not 10ft from us,or it could have been a Grand Piano!

I like that, comitan.

"I hooked a grand piano one day" :lol:

Whoa

baitcast - 12-1-2007 at 01:08 PM

Vgabndo mentioned something about hooking a very large something on heavy tackle a while back and not being able to stop it,he also mentioned there had been talk of a Russian submarine in the area,who knows :lol:

Bacalao

Skipjack Joe - 12-1-2007 at 10:26 PM

Speaking of unusual food, has anyone ever tried 'bacalao'? Smells like hell but tastes divine.

The Italians would soak it in water where I swear it smelled like dirty socks. Then they'd make a sauce out of it and ate it with spaghetti.

Molto Bene!

baitcast - 12-2-2007 at 04:05 AM

Mud Marlin by BAITCAST,these guys will take off like a 707 after being hooked

Jacks I have known and loved

Skipjack Joe - 12-2-2007 at 01:07 PM

Yes, bacalao is salted cod. Dried out like beef jerky.

006_4.jpg - 49kB

Don Alley - 12-2-2007 at 03:15 PM

I snagged a small manta-actually a mobula-in the wing with a jig, fishing from my kayak. And it did pull me a ways. And when I got it to the side of my yak, the hook was tough to dislodge from the tough skin. Meanwhile, his wings are moving, and the motion of one wing was scooping up water and then flinging it up at me.

I got soaked. I have to rate the ray's kayak-side tactics tight up there with the big squid.

baitcast - 12-2-2007 at 04:49 PM

B-Ray derbies were very popular in the 60,s and 70,s in the Long bch and Seal bch area,sponsored by the bait shops at the piers which would give away rods,reels and other equipment which was a good for someone willing to put in the time

The derbies were on a monthy basis thru out the summer,when hooked in shallow water ie the surf they would commonly jump once or twice during very long runs,which emptyed many jigmasters loaded with 40#.

The reels of choice were Penn 68,s with 50#

The lastest I know of was 238# caught in the Newport back bay,my best was 157# off a jetty,you might wonder how we weighed them,meat locker scale and a length of pipe always carried it with us :biggrin:

BAITCAST

[Edited on 12-2-2007 by baitcast]

Al G - 12-2-2007 at 09:51 PM

Damn...seems as though the odds of not catching a good fighter are slim...I think I like this :biggrin:

castaway$ - 12-3-2007 at 02:55 PM

Anybody ever hooked a Mako? I haven't but a friend of mine did and he claims they are extreme brawlers and a long runs and some acrobatics. Sounds like another contender I'd like to try.

Skipjack Joe - 12-3-2007 at 05:07 PM

:lol:

I love it.

tripledigitken - 12-3-2007 at 05:20 PM

Pompano,

Was this a current picture? If so, did you have any luck with the Jurels?

Ken

[Edited on 12-5-2007 by tripledigitken]

baitcast - 12-3-2007 at 05:36 PM

:lol:

God where can we go from there :rolleyes:

wsdunc - 12-5-2007 at 12:59 PM

If I was to use the ratio of fish hooked to fish lost my toughest would have to be big snapper at Isla Cerralvo. They whupped me pretty badly. I think I was 1 for 15. And the 35 pounder I finally caught was on 80 lb test and a tuna stick. They'll humble ya.

Al G - 12-5-2007 at 01:49 PM

Pompano..your are without a doubt the greatest Pacifico..er...fisherman I know... :lol:

...storyteller with a pacifico :?:

Roberto - 12-5-2007 at 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wsdunc
If I was to use the ratio of fish hooked to fish lost my toughest would have to be big snapper at Isla Cerralvo. They whupped me pretty badly. I think I was 1 for 15. And the 35 pounder I finally caught was on 80 lb test and a tuna stick. They'll humble ya.

Had the same experience. Spend a good three hours on the reef off the southwest tip of the island. I finally got one on medium tackle by trolling a big rapala at about 8 knots and a buttoned-down drag. He must have come out, took the bait, and could not get back into his hole. Dragged him right out. Even off the rocks, it was a great fight. Great eating, too.

castaway$ - 12-5-2007 at 07:48 PM

Well I started this thread by saying my wife thought triggers were tough, she found out what I said and now I'm in hot water. She doesn't think triggers are the toughest, they fight good but thats not her vote for the toughest, she agrees with probably the majority that yellowtails are king. Furthermore to get me out of trouble I have to say that the first time we ever went fishing for yellowtail she caught the first one, but she fails to recognize it's only because she had a great guide--- Me. I will say she is a good fishing partner and she can hold her own when it comes to fishing, I guess she's a keeper.

Skipjack Joe - 12-6-2007 at 07:36 PM

Just the meanest, orneriest fish you'll ever encounter.

DSC00207.jpg - 46kB

BajaDanD - 12-7-2007 at 12:17 AM

OK Pound for Pound I would have to say a Sardine or maybe a Cabalito I have put 7.O-9.0 hooks in there noses and then played out 200 yrds of 80# line on a long soak and still can feel them swimming like crazy just before they get eaten
If you put a hook the same size to wait ratio into a 800# tuna it would have a 40#lb anchor and go right to the bottom.

What if Bonito got to be 800lbs
DAND

castaway$ - 12-8-2007 at 11:43 AM

Are we done? No more tough fish left?

Check the date on this one

baitcast - 6-10-2015 at 09:08 AM

Bump for fun
Rob

Just to keep the thread going..............

Howard - 6-10-2015 at 09:20 AM

Lets not forget about the Dog Tooth Snapper. Do they ever fight! I have lost a lot more than I have landed and it is also one of the best tasting fish I have ever had.

[Edited on 6-10-2015 by Howard]

Skipjack Joe - 6-10-2015 at 10:19 AM

Whatever happened to Oso. He was an esteemed regular.