BajaNomad - Wi-Fi Banditos of Loreto

Wi-Fi Banditos of Loreto

Don Alley - 12-14-2007 at 09:25 PM

Just got this tonight:

Quote:

To All Foreigners:

The Tourism Office is letting you know that there has been detected several foreign people that are providing an internet service (WiFi) and various points of the municipality. I just want to let you know that this is very serious because you are BREAKING THE MEXICAN LAW!

1. Invading the Mexican communication system.
2. You are providing a service without being registered with the Federal and Municipal Hacienda System.
3. You are not paying taxes.
4. You are using the Federal Communication System without a having a Permit.
5. You are violating Immigration regulations.

Please do not try to have this type of business OR ACQUIRE THIS SERVICE, so you will not get in trouble.

PLEASE RESPECT OUR LAWS.

Jesus Jacques, Director of Tourism

Hook - 12-14-2007 at 09:41 PM

And you are pi$$ing off Carlos Slim.

[Edited on 12-15-2007 by Hook]

gnukid - 12-14-2007 at 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Alley
Just got this tonight:

Quote:

Only that we want to stop the liars now. I think its ______ _____. And that he knows that to make an accusation is a serious international problem that now we have to investigate him. And either the thieves or he is lying, I hope that he understands the severity of his comments which could end with him in jail for his offenses.

Maybe we are going to ask to investigate more about him to understand his threat to touristas?

[Edited on 12-15-2007 by gnukid]

Al G - 12-14-2007 at 11:06 PM

If you are going to do this (investigate) teach us how.
Don't know why this bothers me, but after all their petty crimes against gringos...(we know Carlos slims is behind it) they want to say something about this pettiness??? :fire:

There is no reasonable morality against sharing...

Woooosh - 12-15-2007 at 12:25 AM

My Telnor DSL service came with a wireless router built in. I'm sure people on the street could pick up the signal if they tried. If Senor Slim is concerned about WiFi, then why does he pass out the equipment- and for free no less.

gnukid - 12-15-2007 at 04:55 AM

For Jean Jaques to make such an accusation and at Christmas no less is incredibly inappropriate and wrong. His message was forwarded to the attorney general and to the Mexico City secretary of Tourism to investigate the intent of his threatening letter and he will be reprimanded for his actions. He should apologize immediately.

Russ - 12-15-2007 at 06:28 AM

If this guy is that bored he has to spend man hours having the Dept. of Tourism investigate WiFi poachers they could do a service to all tourist by "investigating" the toll road bandits or illegal commercial fishing. This guy needs a job more suited to his abilities. Like selling pencils in front of the bank.

[Edited on 12-15-2007 by Russ]

vandenberg - 12-15-2007 at 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
For Jean Jaques to make such an accusation and at Christmas no less is incredibly inappropriate and wrong. His message was forwarded to the attorney general and to the Mexico City secretary of Tourism to investigate the intent of his threatening letter and he will be reprimanded for his actions. He should apologize immediately.

He's already shaking in his boots. :biggrin:

vandenberg - 12-15-2007 at 08:41 AM

And further, to Jesus's defense, he's one of the nicest guys,who has anything to do with the government, you'll find in Loreto. And I think he has gringos welfare in mind. Maybe some complaint from internet cafes?... who knows.
My neigbor could pick up my signal, but I don't believe that's the kind of infraction he's talking about. :?:

Don Alley - 12-15-2007 at 08:47 AM

First of all, chill out, drama queens (gnukid). Prof Jaques is a friend of the expat community and just passes these things along to the locals as a service; it's coming from someone else. This is not Tijuana; if the authorities have a problem they let us know (in this case through Prof Jaques) not by some heavy handed arrests or busts.

Perhaps some foreigners are sharing DSL through a wireless network, and only paying for one account? Such an activity has been discussed on this forum. And that could easily be a violation of law. When we get a chance we'll ask for a clarification on just what limitations our wi-fi signals should have. In the meantime, we are not connecting our neighbors up to Telmex/Prodigy internet access so we won't get in a tizzy.

rob - 12-15-2007 at 10:07 AM

I believe Don's right.

This is the same (righteous) beef the locals have with house rentals fully transacted in the States - it circumvents the local tax system and undercuts those local landlords who have to pay taxes.

I think this has very little to do with our friend Sr. Slim.

Phil S - 12-15-2007 at 10:09 AM

gnukid??????????????????/ What are you smoking right now??? I read that message directly to MY computer and didn't read anything RUDE into it. What's with you?????? All Don Alley did was paste OUR message we received onto the Baja Forum. It wasn't direct to you or the general public. It was directed to the Loretanans who are on the website. I read it as being a message to "those" who must have a 'system' that hasn't been approved by the mexican gov't.
Why you would read anything else amazes me.

capn.sharky - 12-15-2007 at 10:14 AM

I DON'T GET IT---I believe its against the law here and Mexico too. I would prefer to be warned about something first. I don't see any reason to attack Jacques. Its their country and their laws and we should abide by them when visiting Mexico. Now---go ahead and flame me...I don't care.

losfrailes - 12-15-2007 at 10:15 AM

FLAME! FLAME! FLAME!

rhintransit - 12-15-2007 at 10:58 AM

so other than the flames and guesses re Jaques' and Carlos' motives and all the unsubstantiated stuff, what does the letter mean? is it illegal to use wifi? is it illegal to use Hughes net? as opposed to say Telmex? is it illegal to pick up someone's signal and transmit if one doesn't pay for it? illegal if one does? or is only the person selling or perceived to be selling commiting this 'serious' crime? (would be nice if the serious crime against tourists elsewhere were addressed but I don't want to go down that hijack road) can a tourist/FM3 bring in a satellitle internet system and use it for his/her own computer? let a friend come over and get on line? this is so weird and the letter so dramatic. anyone know what is really up? Lynn Hammon, who passed the letter on to the community...any ideas? did Jaques say anything or just produce the letter to be dissemnated? has this happened anywhere else?

Professor Jacques

Loretana - 12-15-2007 at 11:24 AM

Don is absolutely right.

Let's just climb down off Professor Jacques' back and let the truth be known.

Some expat members of our community do as they please in regards to Mexican law, specifically; taxes due to Hacienda for luxury home rentals.

Other folks have decided to thumb their noses at the government in relation to dissemination of WiFi signals. If it was just a thing between neighbors, it would be harmless, but it has gone beyond that. Someone is profiting, and not doing it legally.

In light of the fact that LB's management is ignoring their tax bill to the Municipal government, and that there is a new regime coming into office, I can understand why this respected individual would inform his many friends and admirers in Loreto.

It's Navidad, amigos, let's cooperate and avoid an escandalo.
IMHO. :saint:

Paula - 12-15-2007 at 12:16 PM

{b]Gnukid,

I hope you will accept the word of the other Loretans who have posted here in support of Prof. Jacques. He is a kind and helpful local official, everyone respects him, and there was no threat made or intended in the announcement he made by e-mail to people in Loreto.

edit for grammar
2nd edit-- it was a rude post, so I deleted the offensive part :biggrin:

[Edited on 12-15-2007 by Paula]

[Edited on 12-16-2007 by Paula]

rob - 12-15-2007 at 01:07 PM

Rhintransit - it is NOT illegal to use WiFi . . obviously - it's all over the place.

It may well be an infraccion (love that word) of the DSL (Telmex) Terms of Service to allow others to piggyback (Point 1 of el Director's remarks).

His Points 2,3,5 can get you deported - IF you are providing the above piggybacking as a revenue-making service without appropriate RFC, work permit etc.

Point 4. It IS illegal to transmit on Mexican airwaves without a proper permit (e.g SSB, ham) and yes, satellite transmissions (uploads only) are thus technically illegal as they are not licensed by the government (I got this last from a lawyer friend in SCT, and an expert on radio and wireless transmission licensing).

The warning (it appears to me) is not an attack, but a heads-up to those who may be unaware that their actions are making them vulnerable.

DENNIS - 12-15-2007 at 01:23 PM

OK...Sorry for butting in to a local, Loreto, issue but, it brings back memories of the 70s in Ensenada when those humongous TV dishes were first appearing, brought down in pieces from the states. It only took a little while before city, state, federal [who knows] functionarys were knocking on Gringo doors demanding that a permit was necessary. Some people actually paid for a permit. Most people told them to get off the property and the issue died of its own BS weight.
If you folks keep making a stink about this, it might develop into an issue you don't want to deal with. It will probably go away on its own if you let it.

Don Alley - 12-15-2007 at 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rob
Rhintransit - it is NOT illegal to use WiFi . . obviously - it's all over the place.

It may well be an infraccion (love that word) of the DSL (Telmex) Terms of Service to allow others to piggyback (Point 1 of el Director's remarks).

OK, this is the kind of thing that I wonder about.

My signal does reach beyond my property, and I believe that over a year ago someone else was accessing my wi-fi signal. No more; but how does one determine if I "allowed" that?

I could password protect my wi-fi connection, but I don't know how yet. My desktop and Paula's laptop, no problem, but my Apple Airport stereo connection complicates that. Could that be required? Who is responsible for unauthorized use of Temex's DSL? The broadcaster or the furtive piggybacker?

So I do wonder (perhaps I'm being paranoid) that by simply broadcasting a wi-fi signal that could be intercepted, could I have a problem? While my signal does reach the nearby street and probably at least one neighbor, it does not reach my guest casita and I have thought of boosting the signal. Then I'd propably reach half the block. Permissable?

I did find it odd that the release was addressed to the foreign community; I was unaware that this problem was widespread and/or specific to foreign residents. I did wonder if others here might have had some knowledge or experience with rules and procedures relating to wi-fi broadcasting in Mexico, hence my original post.

rob - 12-15-2007 at 04:02 PM

Don,

This website has TONS of tech savvy readers who can comment on wi-fi comm specs. I confine myself to the context of the Directors "warning" only.

Items 1 and 4. re "Invading the Mexican communication system" and "Using the Federal communications system without a permit" - just by using WiFi?

Nonsense. Similarly to the U.S., WiFi uses legally allocated frequencies of the (Mexican) public broadcasting spectrum that do not/cannot identify citizenship/residence-status of the transmitter. Every foreign traveller in an international airport using a laptop would be guilty of an offence if this statements were literally true.

THE DIRECTOR IS ADDRESSING FOREIGN RESIDENTS ILLEGALLY PROVIDING A REVENUE-PRODUCING SERVICE.

Phil S - 12-15-2007 at 06:03 PM

Gnukid. I think you weren't smoking anything after I reread your comments. I think you innocently were not aware that Don Alley sent the message ON to Baja Nomads. But I think it has been pretty much cleared up that this was for Loreto residents only. Don inadvertantly opened a can of worms innocently. (huh don?) I also know Jacques through his scheduled meetings for local gringos & anyone else who is interested in what's going on in Loreto. He's a 'giver' , not a taker.
So your "jumping into this without putting the correct fuel in your engine may have caused Jacques some embarrassing moments from Mexico City.
Any chance you might paste & display your "letter" you sent to M.C. showing the direction you were trying to go????? Being able to read this might allow "us" to soften this somewhat with Mexico City.
I gather from your prior posts since you've "sign on" that you take the politics in Loreto pretty serious, huh? What are your ties to Loreto, out of curiosity.

[Edited on 12-16-2007 by Phil S]

Don Alley - 12-15-2007 at 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phil S
Don inadvertantly opened a can of worms innocently. (huh don?) [Edited on 12-16-2007 by Phil S]

Yes.

vandenberg - 12-15-2007 at 08:11 PM

Am I the only one who thinks Gnukid is just blowing smoke. :?:

And ,if not, I doubt anyone in Mexico City will take him seriously.

shari - 12-16-2007 at 08:18 AM

OK, here's my 2 pesos worth...I agree Jesus Jaques was just trying to warn folks of any possible infractions and that this matter will be investigated...a heads up...wouldn't you prefer to be warned rather than given 24 hrs to clear out of your home??? These things usually come from a complaint from a local mexican and I for one get tired of seeing expats providing services like selling things, doing things that compete with the mexican economy...like illegal fishing charters, luxury home rentals, fixing boats/cars, charging others for wifi,...it's fine if they do it legally and pay the hacienda and get all the permits etc...but gee whiz...it just doesn't seem fair to provide services illegally that compete with mexican businesses....please try to patronize the local legal businesses and try not to get offended when officials try to warn you of the illegalities of some things.

Russ - 12-16-2007 at 12:51 PM

Very well stated Shari!

bajadedom - 12-16-2007 at 05:37 PM

I just want to know if I can bring my laptop next visit and use the service provided at the place I stay?It's too far for tin cans and string...... Am I the thief if I do?? Is there a sting in the future??Will I be deported??Jailed??Forced to eat at McLuLu's......

rpleger - 12-17-2007 at 11:12 AM

A Heads-up is exactly what it is and we should welcome it.
Sharii said it best...