BajaNomad - For people who do not receive The gringo gazette Norte

For people who do not receive The gringo gazette Norte

Al G - 12-19-2007 at 08:53 AM

http://www.gringogazettenorth.com/v6e19_03.php

Violent Crime Threatens Baja Tourism
Sensationalism, underreporting, or both?
By Nancy Conroy

A spate of recent reports in the US press about carjackings, highway robberies and violent crime in Baja California threatens to destroy tourism. Over Thanksgiving weekend, few visitors arrived in Baja and major tourist destinations were empty. Negative reports about Baja crime are all over the Internet, with most people saying that they are sick of everything about Mexico, and will never travel there again. Tourism officials conducted emergency meetings, and finally made a public announcement last week. The official story is that the crime wave was a brief aberration, measures have been taken, and the problem has now been solved. Believe that story at your peril.

Although the current crime wave has only now been reported by the US press, actually these violent attacks on tourists have been occurring at least since last summer. The reports currently coming out in San Diego are not necessarily new incidents. Some of them happened last August or September, when the last wave of carjackings hit the Baja toll roads. The problem settled down in September and October, and then started up again with a vengeance in November. There was also another rash of attacks and carjackings last year in August of 2006, but that one was covered up more effectively and most people have forgotten about it. But, Baja 1000 racers have not forgotten the murder of Duane Curtis on a lonely beach last year during the 2006 race. That memory is probably what prompted them to arrive late at the race this year, leave early, and report all crimes to the US press. These incidents are nothing new, but the tourists and sportsmen are fed up with it and are finally going public.

Covering up incidents of crime against American tourists has long been a basic goal for Baja officials and real estate leaders. When a Baja tourism e-newsletter recently reprinted one of the crime articles, real estate and tourism officials sent emails to the webmaster arguing that circulating such information was an act of "negativity". The Gringo Gazette first reported the carjackings problem last September and received aggressive criticism for doing so. Leaders and officials prefer to deny reports, ignore the truth, and lean on local media to kill the story. They do nothing about the problem until the US press starts to report it.

Now, the officials are in full PR and damage control mode. There is an old script that they have read to the US press before, the claim that there will now be a safe, "no-shakedown" corridor in the tourist zone. That story is an old yarn that sounds good in press announcements, but has never actually been implemented. They also say that the crime wave was a temporary phenomenon associated with the change in government administration, a claim that is disproved by the actual dates of the crimes. They have also dramatically unveiled new anti-crime initiatives, measures that have been tried before and have never worked in the past. The idea is to convince the American newspapers to report that safety programs are in place, the problem is solved, and Baja is now safe for tourists.

The Baja officials genuinely would like to believe their own hype, but in reality crime is out of their control. The carjackings are not being committed by ordinary criminals, the perpetrators are armed commando squads affiliated with drug cartels. Local, state and federal authorities do not have adequate resources to fight the "Men in Black". The only action that has ever successfully decreased Baja crime is federal intervention by the Mexican military. A tourism protection initiative proposed by business leaders is not going to solve the problem.

In the past, drug crime in Baja did not affect tourists or the American community as much. Previously, the shootings and kidnappings seemed to be directed at police or drug dealers, and Americans were largely unaffected. Now, however, the new carjacking methodology does specifically target Americans, especially naive tourists. An unmarked vehicle, usually a pick up or SUV, flashes police lights and sirens at a car with California plates driving on the toll road. Believing that the car is a police cruiser, the American pulls over to the side of the road and is attacked by armed commandos. Anyone with a sharp eye can learn to identify these vehicles with the lights and sirens, and will soon realize that many of these cars roam the streets, sometimes in caravans. This is a new phenomenon that has emerged over the last year and it represents a serious threat to American tourists.

[Edited on 12-19-2007 by Al G]

Stop Police Corruption

CaboRon - 12-19-2007 at 09:28 AM

GOOD ! I am encouraged about the drop in tourism... if the Mexican gov´t cannot rope in the corrupt police who are preying on American tourists, I hope the bottom drops out . The supply of tourists is not bottomless, and it is very encourageing that the stateside press is finally picking up the ball.

Remember, NEVER stop in Baja Norte :bounce:

CaboRon

As a note: There was a story in the Baja Western Onion (I believe) about a couple who actually restrained one of the home invaders, and when calling the local police, were simply told they would not respond.

It´s time this BS stops. Right NOW Right HERE :fire:

wilderone - 12-19-2007 at 09:57 AM

Now would be a good time to make a film entitled "A Day Without A Tourist"

livencabo - 12-19-2007 at 10:08 AM

While many people choose to respect the code of silence regarding dangers to persons and property, affecting residents as well as tourists, in my memory, Baja has never been without violence.
It would not improve conditions in Baja to strangle tourism with a dramatic, sudden awareness of the need to be cautious in travels there.
As for "tourist tax" corruption, it has been customary to reward officials who offer to expedite procedures at all levels of authority. I have chosen in all instances not to promote that custion, just as I would not in the US. It usually requires a much longer time to complete the procedure, but it also results in meeting a few honest officials along the way who often become mutually respected friends.
Personal choices are involved in determing the future of Baja.

roamin - 12-19-2007 at 10:46 AM

Cabo Ron, could you recall where you read that? I would be interested to read that myself. I went through my back issues of the Onion and did not see it but I may have missed it.

Thanks

Hook - 12-19-2007 at 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by livencabo
While many people choose to respect the code of silence regarding dangers to persons and property, affecting residents as well as tourists, in my memory, Baja has never been without violence.
It would not improve conditions in Baja to strangle tourism with a dramatic, sudden awareness of the need to be cautious in travels there.
As for "tourist tax" corruption, it has been customary to reward officials who offer to expedite procedures at all levels of authority. I have chosen in all instances not to promote that custion, just as I would not in the US. It usually requires a much longer time to complete the procedure, but it also results in meeting a few honest officials along the way who often become mutually respected friends.
Personal choices are involved in determing the future of Baja.

And how often do you DRIVE the peninsula, livencabo?

"It would not improve conditions in Baja to strangle tourism with a dramatic, sudden awareness of the need to be cautious in travels there."

Well, we'll neve know until we try. Because this alternative of letting violent crime run rampant is strangling it anyway.

DENNIS - 12-19-2007 at 11:43 AM

Quote:

Just about everything you said is so much crap. You don't by chance sell time-shares, do you?

livencabo - 12-19-2007 at 03:05 PM

Hook and Dennis,
You feel comfortable rushing to judgement. Maybe some facts about me will clarify my position as I clearly think you do not understand my message. I live in Santa Rosa, SJD. I am certified and have an FM2 to teach English and French which I consider to be my effort toward helping Mexican people to deal with English speakers instead of having to let foreigners develop real estate ventures, including time shares, and finding themselves relegated to working at low wages in low skill jobs for the very same foreigners who are flooding Baja.
I do not pay "mordidas" and have always been cautious, even when many times I have driven the road alone.
I really don't know why my comment offended you. Just today the police are holding men who were robbing the municipal president's house a few blocks from me. Still, I do not think I am more at risk today than 15 years ago when I first moved to Todos Santos and on to San Jose.
I have been driving Baja since I was 12 years old, on and off road like a lot of other Nomads. I am 66 and have given my caballo blanco, 1986 Toyota pickup, to a Mexican friend on whom I now rely for transportation because unlike a lot of older drivers, I know I'm not as sharp as I once was.
I personally believe that the terror campaign is designed to put organized crime in control of Baja. I do not want to have that happen. For now I do think it would be a good idea to leave the flashy toys and arrogance out of Baja and still do what you can to help Mexican people develop their country. If you are down here, I expect you don't really think I am full of crap. The lives of people here have not been easy. They are suffereing much more than tourists from the crime wave.

Hook - 12-19-2007 at 03:46 PM

I agree with much you say. And, yes, the locals suffer much more.

But as mere visitors, there is only so much we can do to effect change without running afoul of the laws of Mexico. Leaving our flashy toys at home is only a stopgap solution, not a permanent one.

It must be clear to you that, ultimately, money is the only motivation that persons on either side of the drug-crime issue reacts to. Money to move drugs, money to bribe police, money to train good cops in good interdiction methods.

And lack of money (through a boycott) to motivate honest businessmen to rail against the dying of the light to their representatives in northern Baja. WE cant take our case to them directly and expect any results.

I await YOUR proposal, if it is something other than leave at home the toys that originally gave Mexico such an appeal to most of us (boats, RVs, off road toys). Most on this board are not content to sip drinks by the pool and call it a vacation. Renting these toys down there is beyond the means of many of us.

Up until apparently 2006, tourism was increasing dramatically in Mexico. Yet the crime has gotten much worse than when you or I started coming in the 60s. Figures released a few weeks ago indicated that Mexico suffered about a 10% drop in tourism in 2006. Yet it was not a down year for tourism in most other parts of the world.

Boycott or no boycott, Mexico's lack of apparent control over this situation is achieving the same results.........much to the detriment of the average citizen.

Roberto - 12-19-2007 at 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon
Remember, NEVER stop in Baja Norte :bounce:

There you go again. Do you REALLY believe this is possible, especially in winter, never mind warranted? Do you really believe that all crimes stops at Guerrero Negro? Do you have a grip on reality? :lol:

When you drove down, where was YOUR first stop for the night?

[Edited on 12-19-2007 by Roberto]

Al G - 12-19-2007 at 03:55 PM

Well I had a real mean thing to say about Condo/realtors and feel they were very happy with you...out of touch out of date opinion that, "it is the fault of travelers"...Mexico has been a mess for years.
The corruption and look the other way attitude over petty thief.
It has lead to an environment that the harden criminals have all but taken control...the only way to change this is, Cut off the gringo dollar, make it worth their time. You need to take a long hard look at the real factors...your attitude is one of an enabler and feel there is nothing you can do. Well it is true you can do nothing about the fed up travelers that have to pay morditia for doing nothing wrong except supporting the Mexican citizens of Baja...

Al G - 12-19-2007 at 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon
Remember, NEVER stop in Baja Norte :bounce:

When you drove down, where was YOUR first stop for the night?

[Edited on 12-19-2007 by Roberto]

I totally fail to see your point...everyone here knows most of the crime on 1 is above Maneadero. I know you are defending Baja...but are you doing any good? How is that working for you...

POLICE MIS-AND-MALFEASANCE

bajajazz - 12-19-2007 at 04:08 PM

The story about gringos in Cabo actually capturing a burglar and holding him for the police who refused to respond to their telephone calls was reported in the December 10th issue of the Gringo Gazette, southern edition. First mention was in an editorial by Carrie Duncan, the only thing she's ever written with which I could agree. The second mention, as I recall, was in a letter-to-the-editor by the principals involved in the incident.

Carrie's thesis is that the recent escalation of home burglaries in the Cabo area is just the beginning of a crime wave that's going to turn Cabo and SJC into another Tijuana, particularly if the police are allowed to ignore reports of crimes-in-progress and cavalierly disregard the needs of citizens whose property has been invaded.

Every single damn day the local TV channel and the SudCaliforniano are filled to overflowing with pictures of the governor cutting some g....d....n ribbon or another, I think it's time for him to put away the scissors and start kicking some uniformed butts and demanding they produce some results.

I, for one, having grown sick of the unwalled asylum for the criminally insane that San Francisco had become, did not retire down here to live in a hybridized version of 1870's Tombstone and Al Capone's Chicago. That's what's happening all over northern Mexico, and it seems to be but a short matter of time before all that murder and mayhem becomes a staple of our lives here.

Paladin - 12-19-2007 at 04:23 PM

Guns for Gringos is the only answer

CaboRon - 12-19-2007 at 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon
Remember, NEVER stop in Baja Norte :bounce:

When you drove down, where was YOUR first stop for the night?

[Edited on 12-19-2007 by Roberto]

I consider Baja Norte to be the area north of Maneadero.

My last drive my first stop was at Baja Cactus in El Rosario.

Second stop in Ignacio Springs at the Bed and Breakfast.

The state of Baja California ends at Guerro Negro and the state of Baja California Sur begins there.

There is, of course, no state of Baja Norte it is a geographical area.

CaboRon

And Bajajazz thanks for the clarification on the home invasion story, you are right , it was in the Gazette.

z

[Edited on 12-19-2007 by CaboRon]

Roberto - 12-19-2007 at 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G
I totally fail to see your point...

Obviously.

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G
I know you are defending Baja...but are you doing any good? How is that working for you...

Wrong again - I'm not defending Baja, just that - Baja Norte extends to Guerrero Negro and I guess I was wondering how it's possible not to stop in it while driving.

[Edited on 12-19-2007 by Roberto]

Roberto - 12-19-2007 at 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon
I consider Baja Norte to be the area north of Maneadero.

Well, that's a new designation. BC (often referred to as Baja Norte) extends to Guerrero Negro, and that's the reason for my question.

DENNIS - 12-19-2007 at 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by livencabo
Hook and Dennis,
You feel comfortable rushing to judgement. Maybe some facts about me will clarify my position as I clearly think you do not understand my message.

My judgements are rarely rushed towards. I practice studied reaction, right or wrong.

Your first paragraph is mind-boggeling. I have no idea what you're saying and I want to understand your points but, you don't facilitate that.

Why do your comments offend me?
What is the code of silence?

These are your things. Why would you think it appropriate to stay silent when your own is being abused?

Your nonsense statement that curtailing tourism would have no affect is ludicrous. What would be your suggestion? Sit back and hope it doesn't happen to you?
I really think that you don't understand the gravity of the problem.

Al G - 12-19-2007 at 05:17 PM

The border has nothing to do with crime...Baja California and Baja Sur are not relevant...Baja Norte is where many people associate crime. Everyone using Baja Norte in reference to crime, as all of you know, is Tijuana to Just below Ensenada to Maneadero. Try as you may, you will not change that.

"Just don't stop in Baja Norte" :cool:

Hook - 12-19-2007 at 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Hmmmm. Thinking. Wondering, Observing...

The attack on the Rosarito Police, like the attack on the TJ Police recently and the other heavy handed attacks across Baja and the rest of Mexico on foreigners and locals in conjunction with no active response seems to be very very complicated to understand however the very direct and powerful aggressions are achieving a clear and simple result--expulsion of foreigners--expulsion of good guys.

What do we know?

We know there have been increasingly serious attacks against locals, foreigners and police.

We know little if any visible response to aggressive acts have been made by the federal gov and few police stations have been fortified.

With no visible defense, we can assume that no response has been directed by the federal government because if any existed, it would be visible.

There hasn't been an increase in resources to fight the criminal power structure, because...?

We can conclude that the aggressors are effectively in charge as no federal militia has pursued the criminals in any measurable way.

Its a power grab that has effectively been completed and apparently its a top down power grab.

Encouraging tourists to leave must then be a goal of the power grab, since the acts are so dramatic and obvious and designed to instill fear with little else to gain, the only real thing the acts achieve is to instill fear in tourists and locals and encourage tourists to leave.

Now much land in Baja has been effectively been sold, meaning the money has changed hands-the deals are completed. So what does a smart land baron do? Steal it back and sell it again.

Much of the land is now owned by foreigners, so now apparently the goal is to take back the land through intimidation and expulsion of the foreign land owners.

This shell game, sell it, then steal it back, then sell it back to the victim and then rob again, is a centuries old traditional game.

There is no reason for the Mexican Federal Government to defend the foreign assets and perhaps, quite obviously, the acts, the goals, the results, are clear and being achieved effectively by those in power of the federal government.

We know the US Federal Government power brokers are criminals-Bush, Cheney, Rumsfelt e.g. is it such a surprise that the power brokers in Mexican Federal Government are criminals too?

It's all pretty clear.

Oh, I dont think it's about removing foreigners from their land. The unfortunate foreigners who have been caught up in this are pretty rare. They just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and the fringe of the cartel saw an opportunity to relieve them of their toys.

No, this is likely about how easily contraband can and cant be moved through sections of Mexico. Tourists are rarely the victims of that; whether by sheer luck or a simple desire of the cartels to not pee off the US State Dept and bring more Federales into the zone.

That's not to say we shouldnt take action to minimize our risks even more.

Roberto - 12-19-2007 at 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G
Try as you may, you will not change that.

Al, WTF are you talking about? What am I trying to change, and how am I trying to do it?

As far as I know Baja Norte has NEVER been the area between TJ and Maneadero, so I obviously didn't understand the term. There are two states BC (sometimes erroneously referred to as Baja California Norte) and BCS.

Quote:

Everyone using Baja Norte in reference to crime, as all of you know

Well, not everyone, as I never understood that. But, I'm obviously not as smart as some others here.

[Edited on 12-20-2007 by Roberto]

tripledigitken - 12-19-2007 at 05:49 PM

For me "Baja Norte" ends when I turn inland from the coast and head up the hills to El Rosario.

Pescador - 12-19-2007 at 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Hmmmm. Thinking. Wondering, Observing...

We know the US Federal Government power brokers are criminals-Bush, Cheney, Rumsfelt e.g. is it such a surprise that the power brokers in Mexican Federal Government are criminals too?

It's all pretty clear.

You know this is such liberal clap-trap that I am totally offended. In times past we may have disagreed with what someone who was elected to office may have stood for and what they believed, but now it seems that you are able to be so cool and well informed that you take the liberty to call the highest elected official in the United States Government a criminal. That really shows your lack of class and education. It is fine to spout the liberal crap but lets at least show some respect for the office, and then do whatever is necessary to make sure that there is a change in the next election. That is the mature way of dealing with the issue
:fire:

DENNIS - 12-19-2007 at 06:04 PM

Baja Norte ends where the US influence runs out and people act as good human beings instead of profit predators.

CaboRon - 12-19-2007 at 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
For me "Baja Norte" ends when I turn inland from the coast and head up the hills to El Rosario.

That´s pretty much the way I see it also.

CaboRon

David K - 12-19-2007 at 06:11 PM

Wow, this really is fun to read... This new definition of 'Baja Norte' is quite something, as well!

1) Baja California/ Lower California: is the geographic name of the entire peninsula... often called 'Baja' or 'The Baja' for short (however incorrect grammatically).

2) The peninsula and the land just north to the American border is divided into two politial divisions (states): The northern half is 'Baja California' (Lower California) and the southern half (south of the 28th parallel) has 'Sur' added: 'Baja California Sur' (Southern Lower California).

3) Because people like to abbreviate, Baja California becomes 'Baja' and Baja California Sur becomes 'Baja Sur'.

4) To make sure there is no confusion or to be specific as to which half of the 'Baja' peninsula one is refering... the northen half is often refered to as 'Baja Norte'.

I think to make new definitions that 'Baja Norte' is only the part of the northern half that is north of Maneadero or north of El Rosario's boojum hills is asking for a lot of geographical confusion, don't you?

How about calling the busy section nearest the border 'LA FRONTERA' as the Mexicans do, to indicate the land closest to the border... or in gringo terms, within 80-100 miles of the border. I mean with all the gunfire... it is like a FRONTIER ZONE!

Mexitron - 12-19-2007 at 06:28 PM

I agree DK--La Frontera is more appropriate.

Al G - 12-19-2007 at 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
For me "Baja Norte" ends when I turn inland from the coast and head up the hills to El Rosario.

I too feel this as I did feel my mood change...and I do know many refer to Baja California as Baja Norte. Many also assume when you say Baja Norte it is Tijuana to Ensenada. I think we should be careful in saying Baja Norte that we make people understand the Major corrupt Cops and criminals are in this area...there is no reason yet for the people from Santo Tomas south to pay the price for the crime in Baja Norte....or should everyone just call it "Baja Norte Gauntlet"

Al G - 12-19-2007 at 06:42 PM

I concede to DK's "La Frontera Gauntlet" :lol:

livencabo - 12-19-2007 at 06:46 PM

For me the "code of silence" has been observed by the US Department of State, failing to issue strong travel advisories, the travel industry and land developers who paint Baja as a Paradise where the docile natives welcome your presence with unconditional hospitality. The truth has always been that foreigners from any country traveling in any country are easy targets for the criminal element.
Drugs are not new in Baja. End of discussion.
During my 15 years in BCS I have made friends and also have been the frequent object of random racist comments against gringos. So, I am used to expressing my opinions and either being misunderstood or meeting with insults from those who strongly disagree with me. No problema!
I did not welcome the changes that have occurred. I don't think a boycott will improve conditions in the delicate balance of a region on the verge of social upheaval. I think I grasp better than most the gravity of the situation. I only rent my house and am very hesitant about declaring the permanent residency or citizenship for which I am now eligible. I am, in fact prepared to give away everything I have acquired here and leave. That is how serious I am about current develpments.

Hook - 12-19-2007 at 08:22 PM

I think we're agreeing Grover.

Packoderm - 12-19-2007 at 08:26 PM

I agree.

losfrailes - 12-19-2007 at 08:46 PM

Holy s h i t! What is it, something you are smoking, reading or eating.

Fear-Mongering Jingoism

Gypsy Jan - 12-19-2007 at 10:52 PM

Anything Carrie Duncan publishes is designed to drive traffic and business to her worthless rag of a publication.

She has decent people working for her who give it its life, but her warped and twisted version of Mexico and ethical journalism still poison the publication.

Fact One: She highjacked the name "Gringo Gazette" from a longtime alt newspaper in Long Beach, CA, with the trademarked name "Grunion Gazette".

Fact Two: I heard, first hand, her speak about how she caters to the "baseball-capped, idiot Americans that move to Cabo". She said that she makes her money enhancing their fears of the locals. She despises the Mexican people on all fronts and bragged about taking more than a million dollars tax-free every year out of the country.

The Gringo Gazette South is about a reliable news source as, well, I don't know, maybe astrological forecasts.

[Edited on 12-20-2007 by Gypsy Jan]

Alan - 12-20-2007 at 07:06 AM

I particularly enjoyed the discussions defining Baja Norte and Baja Sur. Obviously it depends upon the datum used for reference just as selecting a different datum in your GPS can drastically change your position on the globe. For some that use the legal description as their datum, Baja Norte starts north of the 28th parallel. For those whose attitude changes with latitude, the border is somewhere around El Rosario. For others it is the high-risk corridor between TJ and Ensenada. If you change your datum to census results, Baja Norte begins just south of the Oregon border :lol:

I understand the frustration expressed on both sides of this argument. Does it really matter whether this situation is caused by drug cartels, organized crime or corrupt officials? As gringos, a boycott of the high-risk area, defined using the datum of YOUR choice, is the ONLY active measure available to us. Other than the hyperbole in press releases and the wringing of hands, a gringo boycott is the only measure currently being implemented. Is it the best solution? Of course not! Everyone is hurt by it. Unfortunately it is the ONLY option available to us and SOMETHING needs to be done. Ideally it will encourage those who have other options to implement them.

rts551 - 12-20-2007 at 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid

. I am not leaving Mexico. I am mexican.

.

rts551 - 12-20-2007 at 08:28 AM

GNU

You have no credibility. You say you are Mexican (and can't leave Mexico) but a review of your past posts indicate you reside on a FM-3, use a US cell phone etc. Which is it?

Osprey - 12-20-2007 at 08:29 AM

Gnukid, I think you're a good guy. I also think your thoughts here, expressions about your world-view are too broad for this forum, this thread. You keep referring to Mexico. This peninsula is a part of Mexico but it sure as hell ain't "Mexico". If you speak Spanish in these little villages you'll be accepted with all the love and warmth they usually give chilangos. If you offer your polite advice and support you will be seen as a medler who could not possibly know the customs, the culture, the history or the local landscape enought to give anything of value. Now go back out there in your neighborhood and find out exactly what they think of your love and good will. Some of us would read some brand new messages from you aimed at things in Baja California, not Mexico.

Santiago - 12-20-2007 at 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
This peninsula is a part of Mexico but it sure as hell ain't "Mexico". If you speak Spanish in these little villages you'll be accepted with all the love and warmth they usually give chilangos. If you offer your polite advice and support you will be seen as a medler who could not possibly know the customs, the culture, the history or the local landscape enought to give anything of value.

Osprey: Can you give a few examples of what the differences are between baja and the mainland. Or do you mean just the DF? Thanks

Osprey - 12-20-2007 at 08:57 AM

Sure, these Cholleros are very tribal, insular, rustic and proud. I'm sure you can see and feel the vast difference in lifestyles/opinions, etc between the people of small-town Idaho and, say, those of long time residence in Los Angeles or San Franciso. Baja California is unique, maybe Mexico's Madagascar or the U.S.'s Hawaii or Alaska. In some of these small villages a man who moved there 30 years ago is "The New Guy". Takes them generations to learn the customs familiar to a canyon, region, village.

The Gull - 12-20-2007 at 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
Anything Carrie Duncan publishes is designed to drive traffic and business to her worthless rag of a publication.

She has decent people working for her who give it its life, but her warped and twisted version of Mexico and ethical journalism still poison the publication.

Fact One: She highjacked the name "Gringo Gazette" from a longtime alt newspaper in Long Beach, CA, with the trademarked name "Grunion Gazette".

Fact Two: I heard, first hand, her speak about how she caters to the "baseball-capped, idiot Americans that move to Cabo". She said that she makes her money enhancing their fears of the locals. She despises the Mexican people on all fronts and bragged about taking more than a million dollars tax-free every year out of the country.

The Gringo Gazette South is about a reliable news source as, well, I don't know, maybe astrological forecasts.

Jan you are right. I consulted my palm reader just to make sure.

Wingnut - 12-20-2007 at 10:30 AM

Gypsy Jan: Your comments about the Gringo Gazette south are right on. The only viable use anyone finds for this rag is to use it as a placemat to set your buckets of beer on to keep the table top dry from the condensation. And by the way, I do take exception to you maligning the good reputation of astrological forecasts by lumping the Gazette in with them. The Gazette is far less accurate than the worst forecast. :lol:

Osprey - 12-20-2007 at 10:30 AM

Not for me. I'm a proud citizen of the U.S. Never been back since I moved here 13 years ago and I probably won't see it again before I die but I won't apply for dual. How do you like the way Mexico treats its citizens? How do you like Napoleonic law?

Russ - 12-20-2007 at 11:17 AM

I like "The Guantlet" Quibbling over semantics of the "North vs. South isn't the point here IMHO. The high crime area is. And for the future maybe "The Guantlet" would fit the bill?

rts551 - 12-20-2007 at 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
I have completed a run of visa and understand the process as I help friends. However, you should understand the point but apparently you don't about what it means to be mexican. It starts somewhere, and for those who want to you can become mexican, many do. I would expect that the path for nearly everyone who loves mexico and wants to be here forever, would be to become mexican but maybe that is not the case? You guys are very strange sometimes.

I am listening to you and I get your point. And perhaps I am wrong abot everything. Many times I think I misunderstand and after a few days, weeks or years. It becomes more clear what happened.

Ahh history is better understood with some hindsight.

I love all of las californias. I am just like the majority of people living here of all nations, we like to go up and down to the north sometimes in the summer and to the south in the winter.

Have fun,

[Edited on 12-20-2007 by gnukid]

Geeze.... all past post perfect grammar.... What happened to you????? Morph into something else? Don't pretend to be what you are not! Enough for me. I'll take what you say with a grain of salt.

[Edited on 12-20-2007 by rts551]

Hook - 12-20-2007 at 11:40 AM

Quote:

Yeah, well what's worse? Highlighting incidents that have occurred that sell more papers or covering up the incidents to continue to steer tourist dollars. The only incidents that Mexican authorities acknowledge are ones that gringo victims have made high profile or ones that are too high profile to ignore (all the police shootings).

Actually, if you think about it, the GG publicizing these events will eventually be counterproductive to their bottom line; fewer gringos in Baja means fewer advertising dollars from the businesses that target them because the businesses dollars are down, too.

And they do this at significant risk to their persons, I would imagine.

Gee, they made a play on Grunion Gazette's...........a BETTER use of it, I might add. What a horrible crime (if true)!

You're disparaging the messenger...........where's the real fault in this issue?

CaboRon - 12-20-2007 at 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull

Quote:

Jan you are right. I consulted my palm reader just to make sure.

Gypsy Jan,

While I generally agree with your comments about Carrie and her editorial philosophy, even you must be aware that the term "gazette" has been used by literally hundreds of newspapers.
In fact the term gazette is a generic word for newspaper.
Just wanted to clear up the fact that you can´t steal a term that has been public usage for so many years.

CAboRon

bajadedom - 12-20-2007 at 01:28 PM

The cone of silence is where Maxwell Smart and the Chief discussed Baja crime......
Oh...you said CODE of silence....never mind.......then I agree with Paladin - "Guns for Gringos" -

CaboRon - 12-20-2007 at 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajadedom
The cone of silence is where Maxwell Smart and the Chief discussed Baja crime......
Oh...you said CODE of silence....never mind.......then I agree with Paladin - "Guns for Gringos" -

If the Mexican gov´t can´t protect us .... then they should alow us to carry firearms in Mexico.

CaboRon

DENNIS - 12-20-2007 at 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

If the Mexican gov´t can´t protect us .... then they should alow us to carry firearms in Mexico.

CaboRon

Well, since some of the police would be on the receiving end of those guns, I would bet they wouldn't want us to have them.

Gringo Gazette Sur

Gypsy Jan - 12-20-2007 at 09:11 PM

Cabo Ron and Hook,

Yes, the name "xxx Gazette" can't be protected, but what still sticks in my craw after all these years is the memory of listening to Duncan shamelessly brag about ripping it off.

The GG South may or may not be reporting accurately on the recent violent incidents, but I will never forget that the GG South published the "N" word and the phrase, "They need to teach Jose to get to the table." more than once.

And no, you won't find those issues in the archives.

Hook - 12-21-2007 at 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
Now would be a good time to make a film entitled "A Day Without A Tourist"

I just have to tell you.....this was the funniest line I have read here in quite some time . Just never got around to it till now.