BajaNomad - Front Page of the LA Times Today

Front Page of the LA Times Today

allanbartlett - 2-16-2008 at 04:31 PM

The article says that tourism is off by a staggering 90% in TJ right now. It's mainly attributable to the drug cartel wars. Mexico is going to have to figure what they value more...thriving tourism or drug cartel wars & rampant corruption. It seems they can't have both. My personal boycott of Baja is still in effect.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-tijuana17feb17,0,508... (link is broken...copy & paste the code into your browser to view)

[Edited on 2-16-2008 by allanbartlett]

[Edited on 2-17-2008 by BajaNomad]

bajalou - 2-16-2008 at 04:38 PM

I think the hassle of getting back into the US might be a big factor. I just can't see a day trip with the return to US delay.

Desertsurfergal - 2-16-2008 at 05:09 PM

Unfortunatly I could not get the article to open. Since I am new, is the travel sketchy from TJ to Ensenada? We would like to try Tecate and drive south of Ensenada to camp and surf. What are your thoughts Nomads???

allanbartlett - 2-16-2008 at 05:42 PM

Thanks for that tip Grover. I didn't even think about adding the tags. Duh.

DENNIS - 2-16-2008 at 06:09 PM

People won't come down here 'cause it's turned into a snake pit. It isn't so much the border wait as much as it's the anti-Americanism. The over-all friendliness toward Americans has changed and the government has fostered a belief that we are the enemy. They need that excuse in order to scapegoat all of the crap that they have brought upon themselves with their thieving past governments.
This country is lost to the avarice of its leaders. The Mexican people are promised change, they look for change, they hope for change but, nothing changes. They keep blameing their problems on the United States, and, I for one am sick and tired of being blamed for Mexico's problems.
I didn't steal anybodys land.

Not Border wait

BajaDanD - 2-16-2008 at 06:34 PM

Threre's always been a long boder wiat that didnt stop 90% of the people from comming down there before now

bajabound2005 - 2-16-2008 at 07:14 PM

Dennis!!! I so don't agree with you! (this might be a first, mi amigo y vecino)...We've not experienced one ounce (or dram) of anti-Americanism. Not around Ensenada nor on our recent trip south. At one of the military checkpoints we were asked if we were German....not sure how that came about! But, we told them "no, we're from Estados Unidos" and they waved us through. Oh, and LOVED our dogs! They were petting them big time through the windows once we told them they wouldn't bite!

UnoMas - 2-16-2008 at 07:38 PM

Never understood why 90% of the people that went to TJ did so :?:

Anyone know what the impact has been to other border towns like Tacate? It was always such a nice easy place to cross.

bigmike - 2-16-2008 at 07:57 PM

Dennis,

I agree with Baja Bound, I have had no bad experiences with my Mexican friends here and also on our Whale watching trip, nothing but love shown to us. I agree tourism is down due to the drug cartel problems. I love our area here in Punta Banda and all of the people here Mexican or US Citizens

Aventurera - 2-16-2008 at 10:20 PM

I found the article interesting and thought that it was more assuring than dissuading insofar as visiting Tijuana.

As for the attitude toward North Americans, I've noticed no change in Mexico. I've traveled all over the world -- even went to an Arab country after our invasion of Iraq -- and although I've certainly met people with negative opinions of our government, I've never been treated poorly simply because of my citizenship.

In general, I think that whatever country we visit, the way we are treated is a direct reflection of the attitude with which we approach others.
...

DENNIS - 2-16-2008 at 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
Trying to regain the old reputation? That mechanic thread really tarnished it. :lol:

Yeah....I had no idea how severely a fan clutch could ruin years of hard work.

Speaking of...I wonder how Al G is doing? Havn't heard much lately.

DENNIS - 2-16-2008 at 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
I don't think things have really changed: my impression is that most Mexicans have conflicting feelings about folks from the U.S., and it doesn't take much in the way of current events to tip the scales.

--Larry

I agree, to a point. The feelings havn't changed. There has always been a lot of resentment by Mexicans toward the US and Americans. They've been taught to resent us. Their textbooks teach that. When Zedillo was minister of education he tried to print new text books with a softer stance toward the US but, the stuff hit the fan and the books were flushed. The dinosaurs in DF were livid that he would do such a thing. The government has always channeled this resentment toward the US to give plausible cause to their suffering, knowing full well that the Mexican people have a recent history of violent revolution.

The difference today is the change in national personality. When in the past, the Mexican kept his thoughts to himself, today he openly voices his opinion, an opinion formed by the government through text books and media.
If you can't see the metamorphasis in living color while driving in traffic, where the individual still maintains a facade of privacy in public, you arn't paying attention.

Barry A. - 2-16-2008 at 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aventurera
I found the article interesting and thought that it was more assuring than dissuading insofar as visiting Tijuana.

As for the attitude toward North Americans, I've noticed no change in Mexico. I've traveled all over the world -- even went to an Arab country after our invasion of Iraq -- and although I've certainly met people with negative opinions of our government, I've never been treated poorly simply because of my citizenship.

In general, I think that whatever country we visit, the way we are treated is a direct reflection of the attitude with which we approach others.
...

Well said, and I agree.

barry

amir - 2-17-2008 at 12:11 AM

There is a reason for that resentment.
The USA has meddled in Mexico's politics and economy forever.
The recent exports of genetically modified corn to Mexico is one of the latest insults to the land where corn was invented.
In the bestseller "Lies My Teacher Told Me" by James Loewen, there is plenty of documented proof for many reasons to dislike the USA...

Bajamatic - 2-17-2008 at 02:28 AM

Wow. This went sour fast.

(IMHO) The reason for the 90% drop is the press, and nothing else. most of the people who go to tJ for the day have no idea about the politics or general temperature in regards to Americans as tourists - they only know they can be twirled on the shoulders of a 12-shot glass-slinging bartender, and maybe get some "sucky sucky." And since this article appears on the front page of the LA times, you can rest assured that the numbers will return (to some degree) to see the new, safer, more beautiful TJ. We'll see if the rep can hold up to its promises.

DENNIS - 2-17-2008 at 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by amir
There is a reason for that resentment.
The USA has meddled in Mexico's politics and economy forever.

Agreed. But, resentment does exist. To not be aware of that is blind arrogance.

shari - 2-17-2008 at 08:21 AM

It would be interesting to see the stats at Tecate as many are using this border crossing now. It appears that many of the day trippers...or night marauders to TJ are not crossing now...must be lots of good deals from the street hawkers these days. Now, I have not noticed any more anti american sentiment than usual...there are always those gringo haters and they will always be like that. Canada has way more US resentment than mexico! One of the lovely things about mexico is that you are judged by your acts, not your color, creed or race. I am glad for the dark times as it announces the dawn of a new era....I see changes happening...the struggle to overcome corruption...improve the quality of life...it is a slow and painful process but the good thing is that the process has begun...viva mexico

DENNIS - 2-17-2008 at 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
One of the lovely things about mexico is that you are judged by your acts, not your color, creed or race.

Unfortunatly, one of those acts is bringing a quarter million dollars worth of toys to a poor country.

Don't get me wrong. If I had those toys, I'd be playing with them too.

DENNIS - 2-17-2008 at 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajamatic
Wow. This went sour fast.

Sorry about that. Just having one of those evenings. Looks like Hose A ran the thread through the washer. Thanks for that.

Skeet/Loreto - 2-17-2008 at 10:47 AM

Very good reaction to the Times Story;

Up until about 6 years ago I had not noticed any resentment aganist me as an Americano. After that time I started noticeing among the Younger Mexicanos a feeling of Hate: Such as when my wife went to the Tortilla Shop, she would be ingnored by the Young Clerks.

After leaving Loreto and returning 6 months later It was more apparant among the Young People.

I think that the Present resentment is brought on by the Change of Culture in the States as well as the Power of the Drug Cartels.

It does appear that many of the Visitors to Mexico expect that the Govt. will take care and Protect them as they expect in the States. That is just not the Way things are done in Baja.

Can anyone imagine what would happen if a Group approached a Miliatry Office and Protested the Soldiers leave their City, as Happened in Berkerly
Calif.???

We as citizens of the United States cannot demand that the Mexican Govt. change their ways to fit our Needs. It will not happen!!

Why do you Think so many of their People come to the States??
One: To enjoy the Freedom, to better their Lives.? To be able to Work!

It will take many years of Strife before each of our Cultures are able learn to let each Country Live out its Destiny.

Skeet/Loreto

gibson - 2-17-2008 at 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
People won't come down here 'cause it's turned into a snake pit. It isn't so much the border wait as much as it's the anti-Americanism. The over-all friendliness toward Americans has changed and the government has fostered a belief that we are the enemy. They need that excuse in order to scapegoat all of the crap that they have brought upon themselves with their thieving past governments.
.

definitely sounds like it's time foryou to 'look inside'!!

gnukid - 2-17-2008 at 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajamatic
Wow. This went sour fast.

(IMHO) The reason for the 90% drop is the press, and nothing else. most of the people who go to tJ for the day have no idea about the politics or general temperature in regards to Americans as tourists - they only know they can be twirled on the shoulders of a 12-shot glass-slinging bartender, and maybe get some "sucky sucky." And since this article appears on the front page of the LA times, you can rest assured that the numbers will return (to some degree) to see the new, safer, more beautiful TJ. We'll see if the rep can hold up to its promises.

Bajamatic

Aren't you begging the question a bit, that foreign travelers are responding to media, as opposed to the factual content of the media-specifically crime, that is, there has been some bad stuff going which is decidedly targeted at travelers, expats, tourists who pass through the TJ - Ensenada region. And the primary issue is that the scoundrels often are law enforcement, while there is little authority to support a citizen of USA in matter of criminal behavior??

(please don't begin a non-sequitor argument comparing USA to Mexico, either)

The Gull - 2-17-2008 at 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
It does appear that many of the Visitors to Mexico expect that the Govt. will take care and Protect them as they expect in the States. That is just not the Way things are done in Baja.

We as citizens of the United States cannot demand that the Mexican Govt. change their ways to fit our Needs. It will not happen!!

It will take many years of Strife before each of our Cultures are able learn to let each Country Live out its Destiny.

Your views bear reflection and repetition on this board.

Too many exports from the USA are US citizens who cannot make it financially in the US. When they relocate to a place like Baja, while they don't have the means, they got the mouth.

'nuff said regarding the ugly exports.

Skeet/Loreto - 2-17-2008 at 12:43 PM

The boycott of the TJ Area will help in the Short-Run, just as the Debackle over Natalie Haloway created an 18% Drop in Tourism in Aruba.
The TJ Mexican Business Owners just do not have the Power over the Corruption.

Law-Enforcement in Baja and many Parts of the Country has no bearing on "What we, as Americans generally think about Law-Enforcement.
Low-Pay leads to Corruption, which has been the Norm for many years.

Until such time that "Mordida" is Changed, there will be no Change in Law Enforcement as it is in the States with Drugs. Until the People decide to "Change Their Way of Life".
It Just seems to me that the Divided Culture in the States has lead some of the Mexicans to Think that we Display "Weakness", therefore some will Prey on the Weak.

I forsee in the Future a Time of Turmoil especially when the Fence is finished, many of the Illegal Criminals " are returned to Mexico, they themselves will Fall on the Drug Cartels for Survival. Hope So.

Time Will Tell

Skeet/Loreto

The Marketplace at Work

MrBillM - 2-17-2008 at 12:54 PM

Reading the article today at breakfast, there is no question that the dominant force at work is the "Fear Factor". Their "9/11" of "1/31" was simply another nail in the coffin, scraping away some of the daytrippers.

Once again, the market is performing as it should.

For myriad reasons, including corruption, the authorities were never going to adequately address the problem until it became a significant economic problem for the business community and the general populace.

IF their reforms are maintained and improved, EVENTUALLY, the tourism will return to a more positive level. This one of the basic lessons of the free-market. Consumer dissatisfaction with a product is overcome slowly once the negatives are addressed and that product is improved, especially if that consumer discontent revolves around the question of personal well-being.

Unfortunately, I have witnessed many occasions over the years where genuine attempts at overcoming negative feelings have been shortlived because the effort was not rewarded quickly enough.

Time will tell.

Genuine CUBAN cigars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rdrrm8e - 2-17-2008 at 11:24 PM

Many stores showcase high-quality products: silver from Taxco, Talavera pottery from Michoacan, handcrafted stained-glass and leather products. The Cuban cigars at the business association-approved stores are authentic :lol:

, and tourists can get custom-made furniture and pinatas at the historic arts and crafts market.