BajaNomad

Hookah Divers (netting carilla Mar de Cortez

Capt. George - 5-13-2008 at 10:49 AM

Want to learn something of the devistation occuring (occured) in the Sea of Cortes?

Go to www.seawatch.org

to right in orange Hookah Divers ouch!

Cypress - 5-13-2008 at 11:25 AM

Capt. George, There're a couple of panga's operating out of Mulege using hookah rigs and gill nets.:( They usually have a lot of grouper and pargo.

vgabndo - 5-13-2008 at 11:34 AM

The guy who owns this boat only goes out at night. He also is involved in running the Conosupo in San Nicolas' He obviously has no fear. An otherwise nice guy, I enjoyed sharing my kite with his kids. Even he took a turn and in turn, turned into a kid himself.

Self discipline is is a hard task for many.

IMG_0774.JPG - 47kB

Hook - 5-13-2008 at 11:58 AM

No wonder I've never caught a single carilla. ;)

Capt. George - 5-13-2008 at 12:35 PM

I can not in conscience fault the fishermen making a living for their families. Been there myself.

The problem lies with the Government not protecting there natural resources....and not enforcing the laws they (comically) do pass.

Don't they yet see the vast difference in the potential jobs/income for their people, ie:commercial vs sportfishing in Baja? Sure they do, they just don't care.

pobre familias de Baja!

Hook - 5-13-2008 at 02:12 PM

Is there a single problem in Mexico that isn't directly or indirectly the result of years of poor government practices?

Think about it...........a country with incredible tourism attraction, large deposits of oil and natural gas, good areas for raising all kinds of crops, abundant seafood resources (well, at least in the past), manageable sized population for the area possessed, proximity to the greatest market in the world (the US).......and it's still basically a third world country with abysmal poverty and a continuing exodus of laborers.

Astounding! Defies belief!

As much as I am a free market kind of guy, profit incentive can override good management in some areas. Natural resources is one of them.

Sharksbaja - 5-13-2008 at 03:26 PM

Yeah, look at our country in a mere 8 years.:no:

Sharksbaja - 5-13-2008 at 03:27 PM

........but please don't ask Skeet to!:lol:

Roberto - 5-13-2008 at 03:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
As much as I am a free market kind of guy, profit incentive can override good management in some areas. Natural resources is one of them.


Hook, you usually make good sense, whether I agree with you or not. But please explain what free markets have to do with Mexico?

From my perspective, there is NOT free market (or, mostly, free anything) for the people of Mexico. It's a ruling-class market, where a small ruling class owns everything worth owning, and if they missed something, they take it.

Hook - 5-13-2008 at 03:41 PM

I mean that it's pretty much a free market, free-for-all when it comes to the fisheries in Mexico. Almost no management, i.e. govt regulation, when it comes to enforcing regulations. Anyone with the money to get the fisheries guys to look the other way is allowed to operate.

In the case of other industries in Mexico, the concept of free market was probably not a well chosen phrase for this discussion. It is an oligopoly, if that is a word, and certainly not anything resembling a free market.

Roberto - 5-13-2008 at 04:14 PM

Like I said, you usually make good sense. Thanks.

Capt. George - 5-13-2008 at 04:17 PM

Ever wonder why there is a dislike of us Norte Americanos and an adoration and worship of Spaniards.

Don't get, the Spaniards enslaved them, we just "borrowed" a small junk of land.

Can anyone enlighten me?

Shark, don't worry, another eight is soon on the way...we'll be eating in Mexican soup kitchens in a few years...and only Chinese food!!!

Bob H - 5-13-2008 at 06:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Capt. George
I can not in conscience fault the fishermen making a living for their families. Been there myself.


Capt. George, one of the interesting facts about these hookah divers is the following comment from that link posted above.

"Because of hookah divers 300 families have lost their ability to fish"

How sad that the Mexican government just doesn't care! It's outrageous.
Bob H

Sharksbaja - 5-13-2008 at 11:41 PM

Good point Bob. Like gill-netting inshore the net is like a giant filter and lets little thru. That immediately impacts that particular localized enviro and who knows what else.

By the way, the govt does care but it's a matter of WHAT they care for and care about..

Capt. George - 5-14-2008 at 07:32 AM

Has anyone else (especially fishermen) looked at this video...

bad news!

wilderone - 5-14-2008 at 09:01 AM

That is truly sickening. It's not about free markets, or poor people, or government management - it's about common sense and the greed and criminal activity of a just a few.
There is something we can do from our own homes, and that is to support organizations like Seawatch so they can continue their activities. I can only hope that the reefs have an opportunity to replenish.
http://www.seawatch.org/we_have_done/accomplishments.php

Skeet/Loreto - 5-14-2008 at 09:06 AM

Why Not Sharksbaja?

Is it because you are Ashamed of what our Great Country has gone through the Past Eight years or more like the last 20 Years??

The People of San Nicholas have been netting Fish since I first arrived there in 1970. Spearguns and now Hooka Rigs.
The Commerical Boata have been taking all types of Fish for many years.

Then Why oh Why did I see all of the Bait and Fish on my recent Trip.

Are you wise Men going to tell me that what I saw was only at One small place near San Nicholas??

Do you not know that the various Organizations that are trying to Sale their side of a Story will find a small Area, blow it up and try to make everyone beleive that the Occurance is all over the Sea of Cortez??

They are in to it for Money!!! The more people they can get to Beleive their False Words, the More Money they can Rack in to their Banks.

Oh! You Poor blinded Children!!

wilderone - 5-14-2008 at 09:19 AM

Skeet, you can't look at that video and tell me that that is ok. We're not talking about fishing in the 70's in deep water - we're talking about destroying the reef fish. You know, as well as I do, that there used to be fish in many, many places to see when snorkling -- nudebranchs, Spanish Dancers, scallops, etc. -- and they aren't there anymore. With people dumping their RV sewage into the bays, developments contributing to water pollution, fishermen using bleach to flush out species in near shores, and all the other atrocities, SOMETHING MUST be done. You can donate via PayPal. C'mon, Skeet - help stop the nonsense. Imagine the nudebranchs, sea cucumbers and marine plants back at Conception Bay - isn't that enough to compel your support?

http://www.seawatch.org/what_can_you_do/alt_join_seawatch_nl...

vgabndo - 5-14-2008 at 09:35 AM

Skeet

I have been fishing "Gene Kira Style" for 14 years out of San Nicolas'. I personally have seen a steady decline in populations of in-shore fish. We used to NEVER get skunked. It happens all the time now. Used to be you could always hook at least some triggerfish...not any more. Used to be you'd have to troll AROUND the nets between San Nicolas and Punta Teresa...not any more. There aren't any reef fish there to net so the guys are going farther away.

I find it interesting that EVERYBODY else has noted a drop in fish populations but you personally judge them to all be fools, and you are correct.

I understand that you believe that everything, including light itself, was created by magic in six days ten thousand years ago. Based on that information, I find it extremely offensive to be called a "BLINDED CHILD" by you. Back to off-topic with that kind of talk old timer.

Viva sharks. Viva Baja. Viva Sharksbaja!

Capt. George - 5-14-2008 at 09:37 AM

Skeet,

In the past you offered me advice and help getting started on my journey to Baja. We fished together and I enjoyed every moment with you and your son Todd. The knowledge you so willingly shared with me regarding Baja will always be appreciated.

I wish you only well and admire what you accomplished in Loreto so many years ago. However, your refusal to see what is happening to your Mar de Cortez (and all of Baja) amazes me.

Regardless of our personal agreements or disagreements,

always an amigo George

Don Alley - 5-14-2008 at 11:49 AM

Perceptions will always be an important factor in deciding the future of the gulf.

I frequently hang out at the marina to see what the results of the day's fishing are. I have spoken more than once with fishermen who describe the fishing as "very good" or "excellent" or "great," only to hear that opinion based on the fact that they and their partner caught only one or two yellowtail between the two of them.

For some, guided pangas catching four or five per boat means the fishing is as good as it gets.

Never mind that it has been much better, and still occasionally is in the right place at the right time.

If the Loreto Marine Park were to revise its rules and ban gill nets, you can bet that the local politicians will hear about it from the net fishermen. What are they to think? They are not fishermen.

Although the mayor and his wife did go fishing for the state sponsored Governor's Cup recently. Now Yuan is not a fisherman, and I don't think his wife EVER fishes. But I saw her the afternoon of the tournament and she was EXCITED! "I caught a big yellowtail!" Sure did, big enough (41lbs!) to win first place and $25,000 pesos (donated to DIF). And I believe the mayor himself declined to enter a slightly smaller fish that would have taken 3rd place.

Now, who wants to volunteer to tell the mayor that the fishing is ruined?:lol:

It's frustrating, but I've done this before, in Montana, I am SO RETIRED NEVER AGAIN WITH THIS FISHING POLITICS STUFF ACK ACK :o but there will always be vocal people who insist the fishing is fine, or it's just a cycle, or it was the Flood of '64, El Niņo, bananas, or you just don't know how to fish, yada yada yada.

Cypress - 5-14-2008 at 12:05 PM

Don Alley, I agree! Yea, usually the person with the least knowledge has the loudest voice.:yes: Never argue with an idiot, people won't be able to tell who's the idiot.:spingrin:

Santiago - 5-14-2008 at 12:28 PM

Capt. George: the video is chilling; thanks for posting the link.

Don, you animal!

Sharksbaja - 5-14-2008 at 12:54 PM

:lol:Politics shmolitics! You love the Sea, that's why you involve us in your "sea"world. To that I say gracias.
Maybe the passionate and religious will give an unintended surprise or gift in the form of contrary beliefs. That becomes food for thought to which we respond with our views, our perceptiosn and our(or some of our) important feedback.
To this we have already accomplished more than we can see or hear. Folks like Pam, Wilderone, you, and many others here feel a human duty in exposing misdeeds.
Who knows, this internet resource has much more value than just a few peoples opinions. Theree is a literal flood of stuff spilling out the curious and serious.
Our meager contributions may have great and positive ramifications. Conversely, we can also be a detriment. I'll stick to this subject as I do think we impact the system.
My appreciation goes out to those that feel it's thgeir duty to discuss important issues, particularily those that will impact our lives and our oceans permanently.

Seawatch

Skipjack Joe - 5-14-2008 at 01:58 PM

They're named very appropriately. And I'm grateful to be referred to it. They list many accomplishments and I hope they're not exaggerated.

The worly wide distribution over the internet of the actions by fishermen may be it's greatest contribution, though. Imagine the embarassment the various custodians of Loreto Marine Park must feel seeing these clips. There it is, front and center, for all to see the crimes which have probably been denied for years. Parrotfish and angelfish being harvested to the point of almost sinking the boat. Is there a market for angelfish? I've never seen them in the fish markets.

It's very effective.

Cypress - 5-14-2008 at 01:59 PM

I own nothing associated with Baja or the Sea of Cortez. Have some very good memories of visits with the folks that live way off the grid up in the mountains. What do I think of the fishing? If I ever return to Baja, fishing won't be on my agenda.:D

Sharksbaja - 5-14-2008 at 06:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
I own nothing associated with Baja or the Sea of Cortez. .:D


Please explain??

Cypress - 5-14-2008 at 07:30 PM

Sharks, I was just passing thru, sort of a nomad you might say.:)