BajaNomad - An Observation

An Observation

tripledigitken - 5-19-2008 at 02:14 PM

It doesn't seem that long ago that to log into Baja Nomad was a way to escape the world north of the border with all of its troubles.............................

Some of todays posts first page only:

*Netting Cabrilla in Loreto
*bodies found rear Rosarito
*LA times discussion of drug war in Mexico
*Fish in the Gulf Better/Worse?
*Armed robbers run out of gas
*top ten scams in Baja
*military intercepts drug runner south of Calafia
*Canadian tourist shot deat in Mexico
*Killing in Riu Cabo
*Bad accident Monday on TJ-Rosarito..........
*National Car rental La Paz scam
*True Report

Jeeeezzzzzzzzz :no:

Ken

edited for spelling

[Edited on 5-19-2008 by tripledigitken]

surfer jim - 5-19-2008 at 02:44 PM

I've been seeing that for some time myself....it just reflects the current state of baja....my last trip was november last year.....I will go down for BAJA 500 but with some other people instead of my own vehicle.....future trips MAY happen....but it is not the same as years past......

Cypress - 5-19-2008 at 02:49 PM

Don't dwell on the negatives.

There's way more positive things down in Baja.

Capt. George - 5-19-2008 at 03:00 PM

Just imagine if it were L.A. Nomads! :no:

South Bronx Nomads :fire:

man, Baja sure looks good! :biggrin:

BajaGeoff - 5-19-2008 at 03:25 PM

Or San Diego Nomads....

Crime stats for San Diego from the first three months of this year:

20 murders
167 rapes
369 armed robberies
1720 aggravated assaults
5122 vehicles stolen

Sounds like a pretty scary place to me...

woody with a view - 5-19-2008 at 03:28 PM

Quote:

Sounds like a pretty scary place to me...

i hear ya!!!! i wish they'd stay away from here, too, this summer!!! :light:

BajaGeoff - 5-19-2008 at 03:31 PM

Hehe.....

I hear ya Woody! The San Diego surf population stats are showing a big increase lately....usually happens around this time every year...as soon as the water warms up!

DENNIS - 5-19-2008 at 03:35 PM

Don't buy newspapers and don't listen to the news. That way, your ideal Baja will just be fine. Don't let the bad news influence your plans for a good time. Salud.

Sharksbaja - 5-19-2008 at 03:36 PM

Darn, no wonder.

fulano - 5-19-2008 at 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGeoff
Or San Diego Nomads....
Crime stats for San Diego from the first three months of this year:
20 murders
167 rapes
369 armed robberies
1720 aggravated assaults
5122 vehicles stolen
Sounds like a pretty scary place to me...

Not when you consider that San Diego County has a larger population than the combined states of Baja Norte and Sur and that there have been over 3 times that number of murders just in Tijuana during the same 3 months.

But then it would make it harder to sell Mexican Auto Insurance if you told the story straight up.

Maybe you should sell Mexican Life Insurance?

CaboRon - 5-19-2008 at 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fulano

Quote:

Fulano,

Thankyou for bringing a little sanity to the stats...

Numbers can say anything you want if you leave out the paramiters such as population etc.

CaboRon

Cypress - 5-19-2008 at 05:07 PM

Sanity is in short supply when buried by statistics. :yes:

TMW - 5-19-2008 at 05:30 PM

The chances of anyone on here being murdered, raped, robbed or assalted is about as good as being hit by lightning unless your involved in dark dealings to begin with. It doesn't mean not being careful, just like you wouldn't run across a busy intersection with your eyes closed. Pay attention to your surroundings. I really don't do anything different in Mexico than I do here in Bakersfield. I don't walk down dark alleys at 2am here and I'm not walking down an alley in TJ at that time either.

20 murders in SD is about 1 in 100,000 for the metro area and they most likely were in select areas. The TJ murders are mostly drug gang related in shootouts, between gangs, gang and cops/military or cops and military.

I also think we tend to forget some things of the past. I remember the killings in the late 80's at a camp ground out of Ensenada on hwy 3, Auga Caliente or something like that. I remember in the early 90s bandits shooting prerunners and robbing bikers going up to Mike's Sky Rancho out of Trinidad. And the robbers on hwy 5 around KM 70-80 pulling people over late at night acting like cops. There has always been a spat of bad things happen now and then. With the flood of housing money from 2003/4 to 2006 it brought lots of people down to Baja buying their ocean front 2nd home. With the clamp down on illegals in the U.S. many have been forced back to Mexico with no job and no money. Easy money is there for the pickins.

Am I going to stop going to Baja, no. The only thing that will stop me is if I can't afford the gas to get there.

BajaGeoff - 5-19-2008 at 09:09 PM

Just trying to give a little perspective with those numbers guys. Bad things are happening on both sides of the border, it just seems like Baja is making the front page constantly, while things in our own backyard go unreported.

Just glad I am not selling U.S. car insurance.......Over 5,000 cars stolen in three months time in San Diego alone? Sheesh.

Santiago - 5-19-2008 at 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
I really don't do anything different in Mexico than I do here in Bakersfield.

fulano - 5-19-2008 at 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
The chances of anyone on here being murdered, raped, robbed or assalted is about as good as being hit by lightning unless your involved in dark dealings to begin with.

You are just rationalizing.

Odds of being struck by lightning: 576,000 to 1
Odds of being killed by lightning: 2,320,000 to 1
Odds of being murdered, raped, robbed or assaulted in Mexico: 5:1

Remember, these odds are over a lifetime.

Capt. George - 5-20-2008 at 02:35 AM

fulano

do you visit Baja? And if not, why are you on this site?

A "Good Samaritan"?

DC Nomad

capitolkat - 5-20-2008 at 05:44 AM

47 murders since Jan 1- DC pop about the same as TJ- some neighborhoods- you just don't go and at night kiss your behind goodbye- so Baja sur is a real peaceful place- comparatively--

Capt. George - 5-20-2008 at 06:07 AM

My pueblo violent crime non-existant theft virtually unheard of

so ya gotta pass through a few *********. just driving to work from Long Island to the Firehouses I worked in the NYC ghettos was far more dangerous then driving from San Diego to Baja Sur.

[Edited on 5-20-2008 by Hose A]

rts551 - 5-20-2008 at 07:13 AM

George - don't tell anyone. As far as I am concerned, some of these guys can just stay home in the good old US of A

Capt. George - 5-20-2008 at 07:37 AM

don't matter Ralph, too far in the outback, "no malls, no gated communities"

rts551 - 5-20-2008 at 07:53 AM

Ahh How true. Someone from this board (doesn't matter who) came roaring through one time. Hated the place because there were no bars or anything to do at night. Like you say, no crime either. I'll take it any day - and without a worry!

fulano - 5-20-2008 at 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Capt. George
fulano
do you visit Baja?

Yes. Quite often, but not as often as I used to. Some of my relatives (by marriage) are Mexican. I have had long conversations with them about Mexico and talked about things they would probably never discuss with a gabacho. Among the older generation, it is not considered polite to discuss politics in Mexico, especially with a foreigner. Their attitudes about the crime rate in Mexico and the police are basically the same as those you've seen me and other espouse...it sucks.

I used to have businesses in California and I employed many Mexicans. I also had some business dealings with affiliates in Mexico City. I have had many discussions with my employees about the "real" Mexico. One of my managers was a former federale who was a bodyguard for the Chief of Police in DF (back in the 1980's). I have had many conversations with him about how things really work in Mexico. You should think of Mexico as a movie set. From the front, where they shoot the movie it looks like a bustling city. But walk behind the set and you see it is just a facade and the real structure is nothing like the illusion.

Mexico is a paper democracy and its criminal justice system is an absolute perversion, when compared to American standards. Racism is tolerated and ingrained at all levels in Mexican society, even in the language. You can go into any large Mexican business and the higher up you go, the whiter the people are.

Can you imagine in the US -- in this day and age -- calling someone something like "La Negra", or "el Preito"? These names are used in Mexico without a second thought. A common way to call somebody stupid is to say he is "muy indio".

I've said before here, if you happen to like Mexico that's fine with me. There are many fine people in Mexico. But you don't have to lie about how things are. That is disingenuous.

No, I am not a "Good Samaritan", I just don't like BS. If you want to understand why you feel the way you do about Mexico, get yourself a good book on psychology and look up "cognitive consonance". It would help you explain why on your way into your favorite bar for a Margarita, you can walk by that little 4'6" indian woman trying to sell you some chicles, with one baby on her back and another suckling her teat and not even notice her.

toneart - 5-20-2008 at 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fulano

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
The chances of anyone on here being murdered, raped, robbed or assalted is about as good as being hit by lightning unless your involved in dark dealings to begin with.

Whoa! I have to challenge those statistics. Where did you get them?

Regarding lightning, I would think that most people being struck would be killed. Only a few very lucky people survive it.

Regarding odds..........Mexico, I certainly know personally, hundreds of people, both gringos and Mexican nationals who have never met with those statistics. (5:1). Perhaps burglaries; label that crimes of opportunity, would meet that ratio, but murdered, raped, robbed or assaulted.....come on, man! :wow:

Capt. George - 5-20-2008 at 12:38 PM

fulano, excuse me.......

I lied about how things are? I think not. Please explain yourself.

I know about the town my wife and I have spent a very large part of the last five years living, safer and more tranquil then anywhere we've lived in the past. Do I have concerns traveling, of course I do, but that is only way to get to our home in Baja Sur.

Mainland Mexico? I would not visit there again in my lifetime. Baja Sur? I will continue to visit as long as I am physically able.

Do I know of racism in Baja, yes I do, just spend a small amount of time in La Paz and race difference is easily noted. Spanish blood still rules.

Bypass an Indio women in need?, I have more beads, that my wife purchases from these less then fortunate people, then Michaels!

You're knowledge of Mexico is obviously more long lived and involved then mine, but we're not talking about Viet Nam here.

Adios cap'n g

fulano - 5-20-2008 at 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Capt. George
I know about the town my wife and I have spent a very large part of the last five years living, safer and more tranquil then anywhere we've lived in the past. Do I have concerns traveling, of course I do, but that is only way to get to our home in Baja Sur.

Mainland Mexico? I would not visit there again in my lifetime. Baja Sur? I will continue to visit as long as I am physically able.

Well, Capt. I just gave you a short lesson in logic. It took me only a few posts to get you from "Mexico is good" to "My pueblo is good, Mexico is bad".

There is a name for your problem. It is called "secundum quid", or the fallacy of hasty generalization. It occurs when you form a general rule by examining only a few specific cases which aren't representative of all possible cases.

tripledigitken - 5-20-2008 at 02:06 PM

Fulano,

You obviously have a less than stellar view of Baja and Mexico in general. With that said, why do you continue to visit here and post an extraordinarliy high percentage of news items which highlight the problems of Mexico?

The main draw of this board is the love of traveling Baja. You don't seem to share that feeling. Posting news items is fine, but to almost exclusively do so seems odd.

Where did you get that "5:1 statistic"? Am I just unique that in over 50 years of traveling in Mainland Mexico and Baja I have only had one incident where money was taken from my backback while body surfing? I think I am closer to the rule rather than the exception.

You are obviously very bright, but you sure come off like you have an ax to grind. No?

Ken

Capt. George - 5-20-2008 at 02:31 PM

fulano

did not say Mexico was bad, said I would not travel through it again..Once was enough, found out there's not anything there I'm looking for.

We camped from Baja Sur north to Mexicali, south to Tepic and west to Chetumal, north to Cancun and back N/E to Brownsville..a total of four months on the road....

I have experienced (in all my travels, mainland and Baja included, only one disconcerting incident) You seem to read into things what you will..

I whole heartedly agree with Ken. cap'n g

enjoy wherever it is you choose to be.

DianaT - 5-20-2008 at 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW

Am I going to stop going to Baja, no. The only thing that will stop me is if I can't afford the gas to get there.

Yea, but the good thing is that once you cross the border, the gas is cheaper! Just save up enough to get from Bakersfield to San Ysidro. :yes:

Yes, even here in peaceful, beautiful Bahia Asuncion we had an armed robbery---was reported right here. But the perp was from out-of-town----I think he came up from the little peaceful town south of us, you know, the one that is like Abreeee o ??? :lol:

What do a couple of you think???

Seriously, we don't bury our heads in the sand and have little use for statistics. We plan on continuing to drive back and forth until we can't drive anymore. We just don't see it as that risky.

Now, ask me if I would fly here? Now, IMHO, all airplanes are risky. :spingrin:

Lots of bad news on the board about Baja and I think it should all be reported----just for general knowledge sakes. Information is good and can and has adjusted some of our travel styles.

Diane

Skipjack Joe - 5-20-2008 at 03:37 PM

Well, I have to agree with fulano as it relates to mainland mexico and all of latin america.

One out of 5 get robbed or assaulted in a lifetime? During a 6 week trip to south america I was assaulted once and robbed twice. I've had 2 cameras stolen while traveling through baja.

Racism in latin america? Absolutely. You have a better chance of getting a high paying job if you're white than a university education. Go to a bank in peru and all tellers are white, but out on the street white people are relatively rare.

I think racism in Mexico is less widespread than it was just 20 years ago. In the 80's everyone on television was blond and looked european. You wondered where they got these people. Nobody around you looked remotely like the people on the screen. But now actors seem to be more representative of the nation.

The plight of the Indian people in Mexico is so obvious and really sad. You see them on street corners in the Yucatan selling trinkets and you realize that these are Maya descendants - the one time masters of the new world. From masters to virtual beggars. The same is true of the Inca descendants.

But baja is different. A sunny place with a friendly disposition.

Osprey - 5-20-2008 at 03:37 PM

Statistics can be fun. Two statisticians went deer hunting, saw a big buck, stopped the truck, got out, one of em took a shot and hit 100 feet to the left, the other guy grabbed the gun, shot and hit 100 feet to the right. The first guy said "We got him!" I try to keep that in mind -- especially about fishing. I'm always delightfully surprised when I catch fish I thought somebody else already caught and cooked and ate.

bancoduo - 5-20-2008 at 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe[/

But baja is different. A sunny place with a friendly disposition.

How can you say that with a straight face. You sound like a gringo time-share hawker in Cabo. :mad:

Capt. George - 5-20-2008 at 04:14 PM

we send all our banditos up to Ascuncion, that's how we keep it so peaceful way down here!

I'd come visit you up there but I'm afraid.... cap'n g

rts551 - 5-20-2008 at 05:57 PM

I'm puttin a fence up Diane!!!!!!!

Hooray!

Gypsy Jan - 5-20-2008 at 06:23 PM

We have a new JR; just as combative and, a plus, classically educated, as well.

Let the skirmishes flourish.

vandenberg - 5-20-2008 at 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
We have a new JR; just as combative and, a plus, classically educated, as well.

Let the skirmishes flourish.

And who might that be, might I ask. :?:

fulano - 5-20-2008 at 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
Fulano,

You obviously have a less than stellar view of Baja and Mexico in general. With that said, why do you continue to visit here and post an extraordinarliy high percentage of news items which highlight the problems of Mexico?

Actually, I have fond memories of Baja. I’ve dived at BOLA. I used to fly into San Felipe when the airstrip was a dirt strip in the middle of town. I’ve spent many a summer on the beaches between Rosarito and Ensenada. My dentist is still in Tijuana. But the old girl Baja has aged. Some people on the board are “invested” in Baja and talk about her today as if it is still the same as it was 30-years ago. It’s like the teenager who shagged the high school cheerleader under the bleachers talking about her 30-years later as if she hasn’t changed. Even though she now has false teeth and her boobs hang down around her navel.

You want this board to be like those glossy throw away magazines you can find all over Baja extolling the virtues of Mexican real estate? There’s another group here who want to tell it like it is, not like it was. There are a lot of people who want good, and current, information on Baja. They don’t want to have to sort out the BS. If you look, the only time I really jump in hard is when somebody tells the BIG LIE.

It amazes me that some people here cannot see the irony in their own posts. Just a casual reading of a few days’ messages will produce a plethora of posts from people with their own agenda demonstrating their own brand of irrationality:
- There’s the guy who sells Mexican Auto Insurance trying to tell us that the crime rate in San Diego is worse than in Baja.
- There’s the guy who loves and lives in Baja advising another to only drive during the daytime and use an old junker to not draw attention.
- There’s the guy who married an illegal alien woman from Mexico, whose marriage worked out good, advising us that we should have open borders.
- There’s the guy who built a new house in Loreto who put it on the market a year ago for $410,000 and now has the asking price down to $299,000.
- There’s the guy down in the Cabo area who has concertina wire all around his house contemplating whether the wire is to keep criminals out or keep him in.
- There are endless comments from people who live in Baja about the ripoffs at gas pumps, ripoffs from propane vendors, ripoffs from polica.

All I'm saying is that people should tell it like it is.

Vandenburg

Gypsy Jan - 5-20-2008 at 06:37 PM

To answer you question, please read Fulano's posts.

But, I am presuming that your question was ironic.

CaboRon - 5-20-2008 at 07:18 PM

DENNIS - 5-20-2008 at 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fulano
All I'm saying is that people should tell it like it is.

Well, you're doing a fine job of that here and now and I hope you continue. You probably will until you figure out that most of the time you're talking to the wall.

rts551 - 5-20-2008 at 08:44 PM

Jan

Read his last post. This guy is no JR

[Edited on 5-21-2008 by rts551]

rts551 - 5-20-2008 at 08:46 PM

Ful

Not all of Baja is as you describe it or would quote others as describing it. What was it you were saying about generalities?

Quote:

Originally posted by fulano

Quote:

Gypsy Jan - 5-20-2008 at 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
Jan

Read his last post. This guy is no JR

[Edited on 5-21-2008 by rts551]

OK, I am game.

Please tell me about how you dissent.

Ken Cooke - 5-20-2008 at 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack JoeIn the 80's everyone on television was blond and looked european. You wondered where they got these people. Nobody around you looked remotely like the people on the screen. But now actors seem to be more representative of the nation.

But baja is different. A sunny place with a friendly disposition.

I've driven to/from Copper Cyn, TJ to Cabo & back, flown to the Peruvian Amazonas, the Colombian desert, El Salvador, Panama, and I have to say that Baja is different, a sunny place with a friendly disposition.

I like the people of Baja much better. They are nicer, not quite as class-conscious, and like to befriend Americans who try to communicate and are sincere. Colombia sounds like Mexico was back in the 1980s.

ElFaro - 5-20-2008 at 09:48 PM

Fulano...

It's not that people on this board love Baja.

It's that they are in love with AN IDEA OF BAJA. And there is a huge difference.

I'll tell you one thing, the more Spanish you know and the more time you spend with the local Mexicans no matter where you go you come to realize just how much crime the Mexicans have to deal with in their own backyard.

I think you already know this.

e.g. -- A few years back I drove out to Laguna Manuela and walked out to the pangas tied up at the lagoon outlet. There was an old shack there on the highest ground of sand. Inside was an old man with some food, a radio, and bedding. I asked him why he was out there. He told me to guard the pangas. "From who" i asked. He said "from thieves at night". Apparently thieves were comming in by sea, stealing the pangas (motor and all), and towing them to a pickup point to be loaded on trailers, repainted, and used in some other fish camp on the other side of the peninsula. This is the Baja Gringos may not hear much about.

Skipjack Joe - 5-20-2008 at 10:29 PM

Oh, I know the old man you speak of. The high tide comes almost right up to his doorstep. We're always greeted by a couple of angry dogs but he shoos them away after he sees us. As a courtesy, we always ask him if we can fish the entrance to the lagoon and he always obliges. The dogs then just follow us around as we reel the croakers in. My son lost his sandal on our last trip. We spent a lot of time searching until we found one of the dogs curled up with it next to the old man's shack.

Never felt much danger there. The only danger seemed to be the soft sand but the 4wd took care of that.

Osprey - 5-21-2008 at 06:35 AM

Maybe it's a "Bad Roads, Good People" thing but on my first trip to San Felipe about 35 years ago I noticed that all the pangas on the beach had no props -- I learned the owners took the props home at night because people were stealing them. A few short years later I made my way south here about 60 miles north of Cabo San Lucas in East Cape and discovered the beach full of pangas with props. I kept my panga on the beach here for 5 years with little problem and now there are about 10 Superpangas to $40,000 each down there, no guards, no fences, no lights, no problems. Are we remote? Is that all there is to it? I wonder.

Roberto - 5-21-2008 at 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ElFaro
Fulano...

It's not that people on this board love Baja.

It's that they are in love with AN IDEA OF BAJA. And there is a huge difference.

Ding ding ding. Bingo! Of course this does not apply to everyone, but there is a lot of that here. Equally true is that most folks here are tourists, and remain so even after visiting for years.

Osprey - 5-21-2008 at 09:57 AM

Fulano, glad you're here -- we need more intelligent discourse. The Old Hag Baja may have become exists only for those who brought their heads down here, left their hearts in Idaho Falls. For many of us hopeless Nomad romantics the doll remains young and fresh and excitingly unique in our memories. What can compare to a few tear-jerking ballads of the Mariachies singing only to you, at your table after a delightful lobster dinner, margaritas and Gran Marnier? Who would tarnish that memory? Leave us to our madness, our fruitless search for another first, sweet kiss. Some of us can still find hints of her here and there, a whif of jasmin, a beach, deserted, ablaze with stars, safe, enduring, unchanged. Some of us will see her that way until it is the very last thing we see.

fulano - 5-21-2008 at 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
What can compare to a few tear-jerking ballads of the Mariachies singing only to you, at your table after a delightful lobster dinner, margaritas and Gran Marnier?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRfgRwF0Fto

:saint:

Osprey - 5-21-2008 at 10:30 AM

My heart soars like an eagle.

Capt. George - 5-21-2008 at 10:41 AM

Osprey, was that you with the guitar???

DianaT - 5-21-2008 at 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Capt. George
we send all our banditos up to Ascuncion, that's how we keep it so peaceful way down here!

I'd come visit you up there but I'm afraid.... cap'n g

Hey, just knock down the fence that other person in your town is building and come on up and visit. No problem, those banditos are probably now living in Santa Rosalia. :lol:

Diane----

rts551 - 5-21-2008 at 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter

Quote:

Originally posted by Capt. George
we send all our banditos up to Ascuncion, that's how we keep it so peaceful way down here!

I'd come visit you up there but I'm afraid.... cap'n g

Hey, just knock down the fence that other person in your town is building and come on up and visit. No problem, those banditos are probably now living in Santa Rosalia. :lol:

Diane----

No, NO. Its going to be a virtual fence. We can't have your wicked invading our serene Open Eyes, now can we!!!

DianaT - 5-21-2008 at 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter

Quote:

Originally posted by Capt. George
we send all our banditos up to Ascuncion, that's how we keep it so peaceful way down here!

I'd come visit you up there but I'm afraid.... cap'n g

Hey, just knock down the fence that other person in your town is building and come on up and visit. No problem, those banditos are probably now living in Santa Rosalia. :lol:

Diane----

No, NO. Its going to be a virtual fence. We can't have your wicked invading our serene Open Eyes, now can we!!!

Now, would that be a virtual razor wire, or a simple cactus fence? Just want to know what we have to climb over. Of course, these days, climbing over any fence would be difficult.

Diane

gringette - 5-21-2008 at 01:05 PM

when in baja, i feel like i have been transported back to the days of the wild west and try to act accordingly.

Cypress - 5-21-2008 at 01:15 PM

gringette, Yea, if you get a few miles off Hwy 1, it's like stepping back into the 1800's. :yes:

No electricity, no indoor plumbing, nothing but the basics and some very honest and friendly people. :yes:

gringette - 5-21-2008 at 01:19 PM

also a sense of lawlessness and anything goes. good or bad. caution and respect at all times.

[Edited on 5-21-2008 by gringette]

Capt. George - 5-21-2008 at 02:25 PM

no indoor plumbing?

so why do you think they invented Depends?

Besides, it's such a warm and personal feeling!