BajaNomad - UPDATE TO EARLIER POST- "New scam at Santa Rosalia Migration Office" story

UPDATE TO EARLIER POST- "New scam at Santa Rosalia Migration Office" story

CasaManzana - 5-29-2008 at 10:24 PM

I did a Nomad posting about two weeks ago which I headlined “New migration office scam in Santa Rosalia”. Because this posting in the BajaNomad was read by the Santa Rosalia Migration office, more specifically by the “Subdelegado” (director) Senior Ismael Cosio Ojeda, I was invited to his office for a meeting this week. Before I report on this, incase you missed it, here is that earlier posting-

“Today at the Santa Rosalia Migracion office, to renew both our FM-3's, the two regular guys were not in so the lady (who has been there forever) did it for us. She sorted all the bank stuff and tax statements out as usual and sent me to the bank as always to pay the $1,200 peso fee. Arriving back at the office after the bank run, she said to come back in a week for the renewed documents...and "you need to pay me $600 pesos now". I ask why and her answer was "for the copies". I ask her just how many copies she made in the process...she sorted through the papers and said "six but the copy machine toner is very expensive". I said I would not pay 100 pesos/copy. She then said OK "I only charge you $400 pesos". At this point I knew I had her game so I said "OK but I want a signed receipt". She said "I give no receipts, you just pay". I told her I was not going to pay anything without a receipt. For a minute it was the 'Lets All Look Down At The Floor Game', then she said "OK, you go...you pay nothing". If there is more to this when I go back to get the renewed FM-3's I will update this.
In seven years we have never had any issues there..same people/different game.

NOW THE UPDATE- During the meeting I found Senior Ojeda a very approachable and professional individual. We spoke, mostly in English, for an hour. He explained to me that I made an error of great magnitude by posting my experience on the BajaNomad. His advice for all Mexican issues like this is to “always speak directly to the boss first”. He says the lady I dealt with, now known as Priscilla, made a mistake. He says the mistake was because her English is not good enough to convey what she was really trying to say. Had her English been better, he says she would have said something like ‘I made you out a letter you should have brought in asking for a renewed FM-3, and I computed up the bank charges and filled in the form. I also made you six copies here instead of sending you into town for the copies. This is extra service so if you wish to make a voluntary ‘tip’ for this you can do so to your liking….or choose to not do so if you wish’. Senior Ojeda asks I post this so it can be seen how hard they work to help us work through the necessary paperwork his office requires. He points out that his office staff has, upon occasion, gone down to a disabled gringo’s car that could not get up to the office to get the FM-3 renewed because of injury, and they have even made house calls in rare instances to help with the renewals. They have the feeling that their extra efforts and services are often un-noticed. Senior Ojeda gave me his email address should I ever feel I need to discuss migration issues I might have. He says he wishes to encourage an open-door policy, and he hopes anyone with migration problems with his office contact him first so that solutions can be found.

surfer jim - 5-29-2008 at 10:49 PM

How did he know you posted on this board?

bajaguy - 5-30-2008 at 07:10 AM

And unfortunatenly, the person in charge, Senior Ismael Cosio Ojedais, is trying to rationalize the extortion attempt..........the lady made a mistake, her english is not good, she was just trying to help.....

Maybe if they are providing "extra services" they should post signs with the prices of those services.

“Subdelegado” (director) Senior Ismael Cosio Ojeda........... explained to me that I made an error of great magnitude by posting my experience on the BajaNomad..........

Maybe he would like it better if the incident was reported to Mexico City?????????????

DENNIS - 5-30-2008 at 07:26 AM

Damage control can be so disingenuous. Government workers operate with such impunity that they're biggest concern is embarrasment. It's one thing to be caught but, another thing to be exposed. Image is everything and in some ways, our cultures will never mix.

Bruce R Leech - 5-31-2008 at 08:05 AM

they have been reading this forum for years and other folks have been sorry the posted things here. you need to understand how thing work here in Mexico. when a public official dose something you don't think is right you don't announce it to the world and try to embarrass them. right or wrong they can make you life miserable. I am sorry this happened to you but also I think you got off real lucky, I would not publicly pursue this any longer.

I have seen folks deported in less than 24 hours for saying less than was in the original post on the other thread.

[Edited on 5-31-2008 by Bruce R Leech]

bill erhardt - 5-31-2008 at 11:17 AM

Good for you, CasaManzana! You have done a public service for anybody who has to deal with the SR immigration office. I have an idea that senor Ojeda will have a chat with the opportunistic young lady and that in the future she will be less inclined toward attempts at extortion. The idea that one should quietly go along with such larceny because it is "how things work here in Mexico" is absurd. Like mordida to the policia, to go along with such activity to get along is to perpetuate it.

Diver - 5-31-2008 at 12:27 PM

I know this is Mexico but I don't get it.

How anyone could get the mindset that offering any additional service i.e. copies should require a tip to the employee is beyond me. The employee is getting paid by the hour for any work they do. If the additional service has costs involved then there should be an additional fee to the office, not the employee. If the office is overworked then they should not offer the extra services if they can't handle it. Shouldn't tipping be the option of the patron, anyway ?

For the "boss" to offer explanations instead of retraining, reprimand or termination is also a bit tough to understand. Unless it's all family and you can't fire your seester kinda thing.

Please explain this all to me.
.

DENNIS - 5-31-2008 at 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver
Shouldn't tipping be the option of the patron, anyway ?

I completely agree with you, Diver but, isn't it becoming a more common practice in the states for a restaurant to automatically add the tip to the bill?

Sharksbaja - 5-31-2008 at 01:13 PM

You tell us Mr. Expert.

DENNIS - 5-31-2008 at 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
You tell us Mr. Expert.

Isn't it lunch time up there in Bend? You should be busy turning out those anchovy pizzas you're so well known for.

Sharksbaja - 5-31-2008 at 01:54 PM

Like I said........ "Mr Expert" :lol:

Isn't it afternoon there now and time for your regular "Sharkys' tune-up"??

Now tell us Dennis, does Oregon add tips to the bill?

sorry, no pizza here to satiate your exquisite taste in seafood. :lol:

Diver - 5-31-2008 at 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
... but, isn't it becoming a more common practice in the states for a restaurant to automatically add the tip to the bill?

I don't know any restaurants that charge a set "tip" in the US unless it's for larger parties. They do it that way in the Bahamas and it's the WORST service you will ever see.
I sure hope it never becomes prevelent in the US or Mexico.

DENNIS - 5-31-2008 at 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja

Now tell us Dennis, does Oregon add tips to the bill?

I don't know. If you look at that little thing [?] in my post, that indicates a question. So, when you're done soaking Bonita filets in milk to turn the flesh white, you can devote your union break time to giving me a nice answer.

You guys crack me up.

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-31-2008 at 02:17 PM

Sharksbaja - 5-31-2008 at 02:30 PM

Hey man, what could be more fun than juicing up dennis before work. :spingrin:

Besides, he knows so much about our operation, I just want to see what we're serving tonight.
Let's see, so far he's ragged on our place numerous times w/o ever stepping foot inside plus I doubt he ever checked out our menu or methodology so I just figure he likes to cause trouble.

btw, sturgeon w/roasted garlic sauce tonight. No added mercury. :lol:

Sharksbaja - 5-31-2008 at 02:31 PM

Hose A, permission to delete granted! :yes:

comitan - 5-31-2008 at 03:05 PM

Can't delete I already paid my quarter. :bounce:

DENNIS - 5-31-2008 at 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
btw, sturgeon w/roasted garlic sauce tonight. No added mercury. :lol:

Oh yeah, right. That fish could be used for an anal thermometer and the portion size would facilitate that as well, I'm sure. :lol:

I've never ragged [seriously] on your restaurant, Corky. In fact, I don't remember even mentioning it in the past. By the way, read back. I've started nothing, including taking crap from you. You've just turned into the most entertaining thing to come along this afternoon. Thanks for that.
Another BTW....Your neighbors are talking of turning you in for not recycling all those Starkist Tuna cans.
Have a nice day and keep your net out of the city park pond at midnight. You're scareing hell out of the homeless who are trying to take a peaceful bath. :lol:

fulano - 5-31-2008 at 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
you need to understand how thing work here in Mexico. when a public official dose something you don't think is right you don't announce it to the world and try to embarrass them. right or wrong they can make you life miserable. I am sorry this happened to you but also I think you got off real lucky, I would not publicly pursue this any longer.

That's really a sad commentary, Bruce. Understanding how things work in Mexico is not the same thing as condoning and perpetuating it. Are you so in love with Mexico that you recommend that people drop their pants, bend over and get punked by the Senior Ojeda's of the world?

I hope Sr. Ojeda is reading this post, el P-nche mamabicho.

Sharksbaja - 5-31-2008 at 03:37 PM

Yep, all fun n games Dennis. You'll drink to that I'm sure!

CaboRon - 5-31-2008 at 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fulano

Quote:

Congratulation to fulano for presenting the best post of this thread.

(edited by hose F)

CaboRon

comitan - 5-31-2008 at 04:15 PM

And if you had lived here for as many years as Bruce & I have you would see things in a different light. THE END111111111111

bill erhardt - 5-31-2008 at 04:19 PM

I thought that mine was pretty good, but perhaps a little subtle. I'm happy to concede to fulano's graphic imagery.

DENNIS - 5-31-2008 at 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Yep, all fun n games Dennis. You'll drink to that I'm sure!

Now...That wasn't very nice but, we'll let it slide.
Your methodology, as you put it? Allow me a question. Since white meat tuna has an uncanny flavor resemblence to chicken [I know, what doesn't], would it be reasonable to assume that chicken could be mistaken for white meat tuna? Oh. That occured to you long ago, you say. Is white meat tuna on your menu? Should I ask that question tomorrow?

Osprey - 5-31-2008 at 05:15 PM

Fulano, some day I hope to see you flying high above us in one of those super hero suits. On this board a little chutzpah goes a long way when it comes to inmigracion. When I think back on all the rediculous things each office comes up with to make it rough for those who simply want to qualify to visit or stay I want to wave you like a banner -- no, a sword. When they come to get me for this post, can I use your attorney? Maybe you and I can get Garegos if he's not too busy. Shame on you Brucie!

comitan - 5-31-2008 at 05:26 PM

If you are living in Mexico it is because you were given that privilege by the Mexican Government and they can take it away with the swoosh of a pen. Just save all your c-ckiness for your living in the states where they can't throw you out of the country.

Osprey - 5-31-2008 at 05:56 PM

Comitan, c-ckiness? What do you consider c-cky about speaking up against absurb treatment at times by some offices of inmigracion in Baja California? Did you qualify and renew your visas at all the offices up and down the peninsula? Do you know what people have faced in cities other than yours except for what you've heard about on this board? You don't need a spine to live down here. It's just much more comfortable sleeping with one.

Sharksbaja - 5-31-2008 at 09:15 PM

Quote:

Should I ask that question tomorrow?

Yes, but before noon please! Oh and sorry ol' pal, I had no idea you were not serious.

paz

-------------
As far as Bruce goes, each to his own opinion/life. I doubt he has perpetuated anything and if he did, maybe it was to (your own benefit. He has managed to live there many years WITH his postings on this now dangerous or shall I say , potentially dangerous forum.

Everyone needs a get out of jail free card. Do you have one?? :rolleyes:

edited for sp. & emoticon

[Edited on 6-1-2008 by Sharksbaja]

fulano - 5-31-2008 at 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
If you are living in Mexico it is because you were given that privilege by the Mexican Government and they can take it away with the swoosh of a pen. Just save all your c-ckiness for your living in the states where they can't throw you out of the country.

You need to think through why you would live in a country where you have to leave your huevos with your mommy before you go down to see a government official. Do you happen to remember why the Mexican Revolution was fought? Does this look the least bit familiar?

¡Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!

comitan - 6-1-2008 at 06:00 AM

Sorry guys I see a dusty, dirty road ahead, I'm not taking it.

DENNIS - 6-1-2008 at 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Yes, but before noon please! Oh and sorry ol' pal, I had no idea you were not serious.

paz

Graciously accepted. Thanks.

Pescador - 6-1-2008 at 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fulano

You need to think through why you would live in a country where you have to leave your huevos with your mommy before you go down to see a government official. Do you happen to remember why the Mexican Revolution was fought? Does this look the least bit familiar?

¡Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!

No,Foolano, you need to think long and carefully why you bring your braggard and overbearing american value structure with you in such an overpowering and overbearing manner. It is this very attitude of "let me fix what is wrong with these ignorant and childlike Mexican officials" when in fact we are guests in their country and we need to humble ourselves a little and observe things until we start to understand the system from their eyes.

I have dealt with these people in immigration for quite some time and consider them to be professional, caring, attentive, and personable. Maybe we can suggest to them that they allow you in as a "consultant" to show them the error of their ways and have you straighten out the running of their office.

Bruce R Leech - 6-1-2008 at 09:18 AM

People that think it is OK and a smart thing to slander Mexican public officials on this forum really don't have a clue about Mexico :lol:

you notice that CasaManzana is not posting another thing here yet, I think he is smart enough that he learned something from his experience that some of you have yet to learn.

:light:

[Edited on 6-1-2008 by Bruce R Leech]

ELINVESTIG8R - 6-1-2008 at 10:09 AM

Que viva el Señor Ismael Cosio Ojeais de la Oficina de Inmigración de Santa Rosalía. He is
“The Man” for contacting CasaManzana and resolving a potentially serious problem. My hat is off to him. Remember Señor Ojedais you can come on this forum and state whatever you wish at anytime. Bienvenido. Oh, just remember to watch out for the Moderators identified as Hose A, Hose B and Hose C, D, E, F, and G, respectively as they are some tough customers. (Broma) I can only surmise that CasaManzana is satisfied with the outcome and has no reason to post anything further since he has Senor Ojedais’ e-mail address for any future problems that may arise.

BajaNuts - 6-1-2008 at 10:33 AM

There are a select few jerks in every government office in every country, I'm thinking of my own county courhouse. However, if I'm having an issue with someone at the office, if we can communicate fluently in the same language, I can usually resolve the problem.

As a guest in Mexico, why would anyone expect Mexican officials to cater to and patronize American's (and Canadian's) language deficiencies? You are in their countlry and if you get in trouble because you can't communicate effectively, it's your own darn fault.

I'm making no judgement as to the right, wrong, or truth of the story as presented by the Senor. It's the self-rightous "I'm-the-big-bad-american-and-everone-else-in-the-world-should-bow-down-to-me" attitude that I don't like. It gives the rest of the nice gringos a bad rap.

Remember what country you're in. I would venture to guess that if CasaManzana's Spanish skills were fluent, the outcome would have been different.

Bajaboy - 6-1-2008 at 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaNuts
There are a select few jerks in every government office in every country, I'm thinking of my own county courhouse. However, if I'm having an issue with someone at the office, if we can communicate fluently in the same language, I can usually resolve the problem.

As a guest in Mexico, why would anyone expect Mexican officials to cater to and patronize American's (and Canadian's) language deficiencies? You are in their countlry and if you get in trouble because you can't communicate effectively, it's your own darn fault.

I'm making no judgement as to the right, wrong, or truth of the story as presented by the Senor. It's the self-rightous "I'm-the-big-bad-american-and-everone-else-in-the-world-should-bow-down-to-me" attitude that I don't like. It gives the rest of the nice gringos a bad rap.

Remember what country you're in. I would venture to guess that if CasaManzana's Spanish skills were fluent, the outcome would have been different.

Just an innocent question, do you pay a tip to the at the courthouse? What if he implied that you should? Would you? I thought ethics was a universal language.

Just curious.

Zac

fulano - 6-1-2008 at 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador
No,Foolano, you need to think long and carefully why you bring your braggard and overbearing american value structure with you in such an overpowering and overbearing manner. It is this very attitude of "let me fix what is wrong with these ignorant and childlike Mexican officials" when in fact we are guests in their country and we need to humble ourselves a little and observe things until we start to understand the system from their eyes.

I have dealt with these people in immigration for quite some time and consider them to be professional, caring, attentive, and personable. Maybe we can suggest to them that they allow you in as a "consultant" to show them the error of their ways and have you straighten out the running of their office.

I'm not bringing any American value system. I am not so naive as to think that I, or anybody else. can change the way Mexico is. I don't think Mexico can be changed. I said before on this board, that I have a lot of latino in-laws and I have spend mucho tiempo in Mexico living with Mexicanos.

I am pointing out the obvious ironies in you guys who are "invested" in Mexico. You wax poetic about its virtues, how great it is, while at the same time talking out of the other side of your mouth about how everybody should tolerate crap that you would never put up with in the US.

Mexico has a lot of good people in it -- salt-of-the-earth people. But it's still a very poor country and people struggle each day just to get by. Now add to their misery the fact that they have to run thorugh a virtual gauntlet of sopelotes trying to pick the meat off their bones just to stay alive.

And you, you come on here and tell us how grateful we should all be because Mexico allows us in as guests while they hold us up by the ankles and shake all the loose change out of our pockets.

[Edited on 6-1-2008 by fulano]

fulano - 6-1-2008 at 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
People that think it is OK and a smart thing to slander Mexican public officials on this forum really don't have a clue about Mexico

Actually, Bruce, it's libel. Slander is when you make an oral statement, libel is when you put it in print. It's easier in Spanish, where the word is calumnia, which is understood to cover both written or spoken slurs.

Iflyfish - 6-1-2008 at 11:34 AM

Wow, I had missed this one. Popcorn anyone?

I recently processed a similar issue under the thread on that related to "different prices for different people". I hit a wall on that one and bounced off again to regain my "go with the flow", "when in Rome...etc."

I must bear in mind that I am from another culture that was not conquered. I did not come from a culture in which the Cirque (sp?) held life and death sway over the people, a nation where anyone who stood up would be mowed down, enslaved along with their entire family. I do not come from a country where the Spanish came, conquered and did even worse things than the Cirques. I do not come from a country where the only people you could trust was family and were your survival depended upon patronage and loyalty. I do not come from a country where government postions were awarded as political patronage, though this practice does exist at higher levels of the government of the USofA i.e. Ambassadorships, Agency Administrative postitions etc. This form of patronage simply has not filtered down to the level of the individaul beurocrat as it has in some other nations.

The cultural clashes exemplified in this thread are very real and the reason that most of us Nortes at some point "hit the wall". It may be over some minor issue, i.e. being overcharged because of being a Norte, or it may be something like the situation that started this thread, but we all hit the wall at times.

I appreciate the well thought out post of ELINVEST18 and the appreciation of the context exibited in the post.

Iflyfish

Eugenio - 6-3-2008 at 11:20 AM

The folks who are getting most worked up over the event weren't even there to witness it - or the subsequent meeting to resolve things. How about we follow Casamanana's lead instead of putting him in the middle. He accepted the attempt at resolution and hasn't seen fit to bad mouth anyone.

When you've experienced something first hand then you can step up and run your cyber yap to your heart's content. Meanwhile let's show a little repect to Casamanzana and the mexican official.

losfrailes - 6-3-2008 at 11:27 AM

Well Said!

Iflyfish - 6-3-2008 at 11:45 AM

Eugenio,

Si, si.

Iflyfish