BajaNomad - Torturing Fish

Torturing Fish

Osprey - 6-5-2008 at 08:44 AM

Torturing Fish

A while back somebody on the board made a post that inferred catch and release was like “torturing fish”. I filed that little factoid away and went on about my business. Since then there have been long, involved discussions about appropriate subjects that have opened my eyes to just how sensitive many members are. Overall I think active members seem much more sensitive to the views of others, open to new ideas and generally forgiving on subjects that used to cause great rancor.

For me personally, I think I have “caught the fever” of sensitivity thanks to those who have been debating things on the regular board. I think it has even changed the way I fish, the way I look at the sport and I wonder if others out there in cyberland are feeling the same thing.

I still enjoy fishing for sport; that is for the thrill of catching and releasing game fish and occasionally catching and keeping some tasty food fish for the table. I will admit that I’m buying and using more circle hooks, that I’m smashing down the barbs on lots of hooks when I know what kinds of fish are in the area.

I have not yet come to the point of arguing with myself or others about “pain vs trauma” when it comes to what the fish feels when it bites the hook, gets played to the boat. As to “Fish Torture” I’m not doing that any more. When I did torture fish it was just a little thing I got from the war on terror. I call it “Air Boarding” – very simple, just blow air over the gills of the subject fish. It was never prolonged because I sought little information: where is the rest of your squad, (commanding officer – The Big Fish) what’s their favorite food, when do they eat?

I’m not too proud to admit this board has made me a better person (and perhaps saved me from prosecution by some future tribunal or piscine inquisition).

shari - 6-5-2008 at 09:09 AM

Gracias amigo for getting on board the soul train! I really appreciated your post as it shows great integrity (sp?), an open mind and a willingness to learn which are all wonderful qualities...particularly in a man (jejeje)! That is what I love about this board...there is a lot to learn...good debate...stuff that makes me laugh...and lovely caring people who share and bear their souls. bravo amigo...te respeto mucho.

BMG - 6-5-2008 at 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey

where is the rest of your squad, (commanding officer – The Big Fish) what’s their favorite food, when do they eat?

Did you ever get an answer? Do you recommend this technique for the insensitive fisherpeople such as me? (Or is it I?)

[Edited on 6-5-2008 by BMG]

chickeninside.jpg - 26kB

toneart - 6-5-2008 at 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
Torturing Fish

A while back somebody on the board made a post that inferred catch and release was like “torturing fish”. I filed that little factoid away and went on about my business. Since then there have been long, involved discussions about appropriate subjects that have opened my eyes to just how sensitive many members are. Overall I think active members seem much more sensitive to the views of others, open to new ideas and generally forgiving on subjects that used to cause great rancor.

For me personally, I think I have “caught the fever” of sensitivity thanks to those who have been debating things on the regular board. I think it has even changed the way I fish, the way I look at the sport and I wonder if others out there in cyberland are feeling the same thing.

I still enjoy fishing for sport; that is for the thrill of catching and releasing game fish and occasionally catching and keeping some tasty food fish for the table. I will admit that I’m buying and using more circle hooks, that I’m smashing down the barbs on lots of hooks when I know what kinds of fish are in the area.

I have not yet come to the point of arguing with myself or others about “pain vs trauma” when it comes to what the fish feels when it bites the hook, gets played to the boat. As to “Fish Torture” I’m not doing that any more. When I did torture fish it was just a little thing I got from the war on terror. I call it “Air Boarding” – very simple, just blow air over the gills of the subject fish. It was never prolonged because I sought little information: where is the rest of your squad, (commanding officer – The Big Fish) what’s their favorite food, when do they eat?

I’m not too proud to admit this board has made me a better person (and perhaps saved me from prosecution by some future tribunal or piscine inquisition).

Yes, I am guilty of venting my sensitivities on this board. I think I am somewhat of the same mentality as you while fishing. However, I have never air boarded a fish. What I do instead is talk to them incessantly, sort of like I do here sometimes. :rolleyes:

Unfortunately, too many of the releases become floaters as a result.

Osprey - 6-5-2008 at 10:15 AM

Shari, igualmente

BMG, there is hope for you if you have never been known as a lip ripper. They won't talk. Cold-blooded.

[Edited on 6-5-2008 by Osprey]

DENNIS - 6-5-2008 at 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey

A while back somebody on the board made a post that inferred catch and release was like “torturing fish”.

Cypress - 6-5-2008 at 11:18 AM

Catch and release is more like "playing with your food", either yours or someone else's on down the line. :yes:

Ken Bondy - 6-5-2008 at 11:23 AM

Osprey you are very eloquent and thought provoking. I was an avid fisherman for many years, basically the first four decades of my life. I gave little thought to the pain I was or was not inflicting, or what the jurel was feeling as it thrashed about and eventually became still in the bottom of my inflatable. That all changed when I started diving and taking pictures underwater. I realized that fish, albeit cold-blooded, have distinct personalities, not unlike our domesticated pets. Some are shy, others are curious and will approach and inspect you at close range. All of them are superbly adapted to their environments, be it benthic or pelagic. Because of this, I simply cannot kill a fish any more. I am not judgmental about sport fishing, although I can't personally do it any more. I am not without some hypocrisy -- I still eat seafood as long as someone else does the killing. I just can't do the killing myself. Whew, I'm glad that's off my chest :biggrin:

++Ken++

LancairDriver - 6-5-2008 at 12:04 PM

In my experience, the older one gets the more sensitive they become to the feelings of other supposedly "less advanced" species. Here in Oregon, even some of the older commercial fishermen have some guilt feelings about some of the marine life they encounter. For example, many report how a captured octopus will scream while looking at their captor as if begging to be released. I have personally seen this. Many will release an octopus even though it can bring in some extra cash. The sport fisherman or hunter have presumably progressed beyond the hunter/gatherer stage where killing was a necessity to survive. It is now done primarily for sport. And yes, I still fish and am uncomfortable taking any more than I can eat, and try to release as gently as possible. I quit hunting years ago but don't condemn those who do. I now prefer to simply observe the various wildlife that I used to hunt. If I were a diver and had access to Ken Bondys underwater observations I would probably feel more the same way with marine life.

Russ - 6-5-2008 at 12:23 PM

I know it's horrible! Should have heard the sardines the other day when I was out taking pictures of the seiners. Haven't slept since. Today I'm going to drink a case of non-returnable Tecates. Just for madicial reasons.

Cypress - 6-5-2008 at 12:29 PM

Russ, Don't do it!

Drinking a case of Tecate could have far-reaching consequences, not to mention a bad head and digestive problems.

Osprey - 6-5-2008 at 01:32 PM

Humbled by a Humboldt

Catch This

I just read an article in a Baja magazine about squid. It seems the poor devils have a very short life span. A two-year-old squid is a very old animal. I remember some other interesting facts about squid intelligence. Squid and octopi have the brains to actually think and are just a click under Homo habilis, our "handy man" progenitor who used tools.

Squid and octopi are among the sea animals that use body color changes to communicate. A few of the reasons for this are obvious: Evasion from predators, sexual identification and recognition, territorial signals and stimulus for migration and feeding. Although using color changes to deceive has helped them survive, they are pikers in the business of deception compared to other clever animals, up and down the long ladder of evolution.

I have, in my tackle bag, a special lure to catch squid. My personal achievement in deception, (in this case, self-deception), is at a very high level -- I have selectively forgotten how I came by this device. It is constructed of metal tubing, a glow-in-the-dark white plastic body and row upon row of upward pointing spines. It effectively resembles a baby squid, while the rows of murderously sharp needles wait to ensnare the suckers and tentacles of the hungry squid. I have used the device only once.

It began as an ordinary fishing day. There were three of us in the boat, the sea was slate gray, flat and showed no signs of feeding fish no matter how hard we looked. After 3 or 4 hours of cold beer, hot sun and old fish tales, we spotted a group of about l0 boats. We headed their way hoping they had happened on some tuna or dorado. When we got closer we saw that they had found a small but productive seamount and were busy hauling in 5 foot long, 40 to 50 pound squid. In a second I found the special lure, attached an appropriate weight for the current and depth and dropped it over the side.

At about 150 feet down I hooked a good one and immediately began to reel it in. No match for my 80 pound test line, the squid was hauled up alongside the boat in no time. I sunk the gaff deep into the body of the squid and held it fast until it could expel it's ebony ink, quarts at a time. Satisfied most of the inking was complete, we hauled it into the forward compartment. I was near the bow and could observe our catch.

The powerful tentacles were nearest, writhing furiously to gain a purchase on anything. The tubular body ended in a spadelike tail. Ink was still pumping into the bottom of our small boat in bubbly clouds beneath the beast and its huge eye seemed to be fixed on me. It was difficult to determine the color of the animal. Rapid and rhythmic waves of neon bright colors were displayed along the full length of its translucent body. The display was dramatic, lazer bright against the brilliance of a sunny day at sea in the tropics. This was not the subtle bioluminescence needed in the murky depths, it was the repeated shouts of a very simple message; I'M DYING, WHY ARE YOU KILLING ME?

For the next 10 minutes I was transfixed. Psychedelic colors screamed up and down the squid's length like an electronic reader board with all the circuits blown. Then the lights stopped. The creature was dead.

As my heart rate slowed. I finally had the time to collect myself and try to remember what I had been thinking when I first lowered the lure into the depths. High blood of the sportsman at the moment of encounter? Arrogant showmanship to impress my fishing partners? Admiration from my friends and neighbors on the beach when I return with my tasty catch?

My answer came slowly but it was crystal clear -- when I set about for the capturing and killing of this wondrous animal my mind had been a vacuum, a sorrowfully empty space. We humans are so advanced that our deceptions help us kill without thought or motive.

In my remorse I have pledged never to try to catch and kill another squid.
I'm into sharks now. Sharks are mean, real fighters, and they fight fair. They are, during and after the fight, a very comforting and forgiving shade of gray.

BMG - 6-5-2008 at 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey

BMG, there is hope for you if you have never been known as a lip ripper.

Good to know. I have never been known as a "lip ripper".

I have been told frequently that I need a "lip zipper" though.

Russ - I have it on good authority that 1 case is not enough to get you to the end zone. A shot of Wild Turkey in each one should do the trick though.

Sharksbaja - 6-5-2008 at 02:25 PM

Quote:

In my remorse I have pledged never to try to catch and kill another squid.I'm into sharks now. Sharks are mean, real fighters, and they fight fair. They are, during and after the fight, a very comforting and forgiving shade of gray.

Hmmm, say George how's about conceding to the sharks too. Sharks like the Humbolt squid and marlin are apex predators.

Check this out>

Analysis of the stomach contents of 204 blue marlin (Makaira mazara) caught by the sport-fishing fleet of Cabo San Lucas in the southern Gulf of California is presented. The specimens sampled were caught during the summer and fall of 1987, 1988, and 1989 when the sea is warm (28–30°C). Blue marlin were found to feed on 35 prey species, 3 of which represented 90% of the total stomach contents by frequency of occurrence. The main prey were epipelagic organisms from the oceanic zone and demersal fishes from the neritic zone. The most important prey were bullet mackerel Auxis spp., young finescale triggerfish Balistes polylepis, and the giant squid Dosidicus gigas.

That's food for thought. Now, the question is. What are those sharks eating?

I know your tongue-in-cheek style Jorge but cmon, break down and hug a shark today! :lol:

Seriously, someone might think you're telling the truth.

btw, while working around squid and researchers in the 80s I learned some interesting facts about these cephlapods. Their intelligence is uncanny and they use their memory not just instincts.Their eyes are a very developed organ similar to our own and capable of seeing quite well.

I hear they can tell what you are thinking just by gazing into your eye. Perhaps that was the moment of your epiphany Osprey. The moment the squid entered your soul and helped you see the light. Oh what a glorious moment it must have been. :bounce:

Osprey - 6-5-2008 at 02:58 PM

Sharks, that's just an old piece still cluttering up my computer. I wasn't serious about fishing for sharks. Sharks have gotten a rotten shake for all of human history. People go out of their way to kill them just like they might see a rattler on the highway and swerve on purpose to kill it. Makes no sense at all. When I was about 10 years old I went fishing on a small navy bay boat with 2 sailors at Key West. For no reason they caught and broarded a large lemon shark -- the shark destroyed the boat's center console, the decking, the inside wooden hull fixtures before they could subdue it, throw it back. I've always hoped they lost some stripes or freedom for that boneheaded move.

Iflyfish - 6-5-2008 at 04:14 PM

Ya got me thinking again about this Osprey. Great post.

I believe that there is a reason that we have inherited a set of canine teeth. Need I elaborate? I sincerly doubt that they are vestigle.

Thus equiped as a self conscious omnivore we contemplate such things as the feelings of fish. What a dillema, Rollo May says that we are gods that chit. He has a point. We can think in an abstract way about these things yet are tied to our human nature and body. We can contemplate and postulate a relationship with a higher power and create great religions and even see ourselves as gods. Me, not so much. This expuisite self consciousness is of course the seed of consciousness, and therefore conscience.

My consciousness has been highly influenced by testosterone and hubris. As I age I am much less driven by the former and less apt to the later. Thank goodness that this is true. Some have called it wisdom, some just getting old and philosophical.

I once caught a wonderful, beautiful Steelhead in an Oregon stream, it glowed with lumenescence, like on sees during a red tide in Baja.....amazing, like a shimmering aura of life, like the squid you described in your post, irridescent, psychedelic colors that seemed to arise out of the fish, like an aura. I kissed it and let it go. It moved me.

Iflyfish - 6-5-2008 at 04:17 PM

I hit the worn button and posted the above without finishing it.

As I slow down and appreciate that which is around me I share the feelings that you have expressed. I see women more clearly, appreciate them more and release way more fish than I ever did in my youth.

Iflyfish

fishbuck - 6-5-2008 at 05:15 PM

You all know I love fish. An not just to eat either. I respect them as fellow human beings too

Heck I might even try to learn about circle hooks. I might even look at the package when I'm buying "J" hooks at Turners.

fishbuck - 6-5-2008 at 11:26 PM

Well my post concerning the sexual orientation of the newly feminized Osprey was deleted so I guess someone was offended. But I won't appolgize because that goes against the Fishbuck creed of never admitting a mistake. So since I don't make mistakes it must have been the moderators fault.
Anyway, I thought this might help Osprey understand this new fish hugging behavior:

Andropause, the Male Menopause

Although most people know that Menopause has generated a large population of women who have excessive rates of bone fracture and CHD, men also suffer from these conditions. The male menopause or Andropause, is due to hypogonadism- low testosterone levels. Andropause, the word, appeared in the literature in 1952 and is defined at the natural cessation of the sexual function in older men. Andropause also refers to sexual regression in men over 40 due to dropping male hormone levels.

So my recommendation is go out and kill something violently and that should raise your testosterone level back up to "Manly". Maybe a fist fight will help too but only if you win :cool:

Sharksbaja - 6-5-2008 at 11:50 PM

Yes Osprey , go kill a roosterfish! WHOOPS sorry Fishbuck!

Go hug a roosterfish & kill a sardine. :lol:

Russ - 6-6-2008 at 05:33 AM

Well, after the case of warm Tacate and a bunch of tokillya, no Wild Turkey, I'm truly hurting this morning and have a whole new appreciation for our finned friends..... :bounce:

No more hooks for me! I'm now using dynamite.

baitcast - 6-6-2008 at 06:57 AM

YES>>>>>>>>KILL>>>>>>>>KILL,I think i,m feeling better by the minute.

MORE HORMONES >>>YES<<<<<<YES.

You guys kill me :lol:

Rob

bajaguy - 6-6-2008 at 07:05 AM

Hey, what about dropping a live lobster into a pot of boiling water??????

Osprey - 6-6-2008 at 07:14 AM

I used to take off one of the rubber bands on the Maine lobster's claws (to make it more fair) before I placed them on the floor in the kitchen so my dogs could play with them a little while before they went into the pot. Great fun but that was in the states. I don't do that down here because these lobsters have no claws and it's too hard to keep the tape on the dog's mouth (to make it fair). I think I am losing it -- maybe my sperm are just kicking back in tiny little lounge chairs, not practicing swimming strokes.

Pescador - 6-6-2008 at 08:15 AM

Viagra, the fisherman's friend. :coolup:

baitcast - 6-6-2008 at 08:24 AM

:lol:

Skipjack Joe - 6-6-2008 at 09:00 AM

What is moral is what feels good after

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
I once caught a wonderful, beautiful Steelhead in an Oregon stream...
I kissed it and let it go. It moved me.

That's where you went wrong, Iflyfish. You weren't supposed to enjoy that moment.

Here are the rules as I understand them. If you catch a fish and it goes on the dinner table. That's good. Enjoy yourself. If you release the fish. No good. You're supposed to feel guilty.

I like to compare it to the church's view on sex a century ago. If you do it with the intent to procreate, more power to you. You're serving mankind (and God).If you're just enjoying it for it's own sake - hell and damnation.

It's the intent that's important according to these ethics. You're supposed to regulate your feelings based upon the intent. You can't simply trust your feelings.

Cypress - 6-6-2008 at 01:25 PM

Skipjack Joe, :biggrin:

Now we have fishing and sex all tangled up.

If the fish aren't biting it's time to turn to other activities. :bounce:

Iflyfish - 6-6-2008 at 02:10 PM

Shipjack, you crack me up!

"I like to compare it to the church's view on sex a century ago. If you do it with the intent to procreate, more power to you. You're serving mankind (and God).If you're just enjoying it for it's own sake - hell and damnation."

I have never clanded fish with the intent of having s.. with them, however I am a very tolerant person and if that is your predaliction, and the fish are willing...heh, who am I to complain?

If there were indeed an afterlife, I would expect that I would have the most interesting people around me, you included probably! Others can have the harps and choirs.

You crack me up!

Iflyfish

Ospreys are not sisssies!

Sharksbaja - 6-6-2008 at 02:10 PM

They are apex predators! :lol:

Geeze Skip, now we have to think about it? :lol:

Ok let's fess up.

I think it's pretty instinctive to kill and eat. Therefore I'll do my best and try to take into account a little thought and wisdom as to what and how much I gather.

I think that comes with years of feedback, both from the wild and from information I can remember.

There are folks out their protecting butterflys and snail-darters and I'm sure that seems petty to many. Of course they are not apex predators like ospreys or sharks and their signifigance may not be clear to you, or me either. You get my drift?

My point being that some of us that kill fish consider our own set of logic and morals. I feel perhaps by limiting my take I may make a tiny, yet collectively significant impact on the areas I use.

I have always practiced selective hunting/gathering. Like when picking wild mushrooms. Some species will refruit or maintain a viable producing bed if you take the time to cut the fruitbody off with a knife rather than pull it out of the ground.

Now I didn't know that for many years. It's the same education you get from the ocean thru osmosis. You become familiar with certain elements and the dynamics of your connection with the ocean/surroundings and it's inhabitants.

It's like my accountant once said" it's better to be a pig than not a hog in biz" :lol:

I can't speak for other longtime ocean users/fish killers but my attitude has evolved tremendously over years. As the areas deflourished over the years my appreciation and admiration grew for the few that prevailed.

I still weigh in on what I feel is my duty to practice with appropriate restraint. That doesn't mean feeding the whole restaurant with todays' personal catch. No, I support the livelyhoods of the not-so-fortunate local commercials here. It's their job to sell their catch to a restaurant or distributer in order to pay the bills.

The same goes for the panga fisherman. Do you suppose they appreciate recreational fishermen providing free product to the restaurants? Yeah I know many of you guys have "special" relationships with the owners/chefs and I am POSITIVE they are grateful to have free fish to make a profit on. Why wouldn't they be. :lol:

That may not make the local pangueros happy though. They are actually working out there on the sea not having fun recreating like you are. :rolleyes:

(donning body armor now)

DENNIS - 6-6-2008 at 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
I have never landed fish with the intent of having s.. with them
Iflyfish

Given the topic, I assume the s.. means sushi. Why not? Fish love sushi. You know how you say sushi in Spanish?.......Carnada.

Iflyfish - 6-6-2008 at 02:25 PM

Sharks, I can't wait to try your catch of the day, or for that matter anything on your great menu. How is the closure of salmon fishing affecting the coast? Do you think there will be a good crab season.

To those on the BajaNomad site who poo poo the notion of the degradation of fish populations, the entire Salmon season is CLOSED along the Pacific Coast. Some Berkley educated idiot no doubt is behind this, right? The Sacramento Run of Salmon, which turn north and feed off the Oregon Coast and then return there to spawn, have been reduced to such drastically low levels that this closure that the entire coast to the Canadian border is closed. Shades of things to come if we are not careful amigos.

Iflyfish

Iflyfish

Cypress - 6-6-2008 at 02:27 PM

Sharksbaja, Very good point.

Listen up all you so-called recreational fisherman.

The fish you give away is taking the bread off a commercial fishermans table. :no:

toneart - 6-6-2008 at 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
I hit the worn button and posted the above without finishing it.

As I slow down and appreciate that which is around me I share the feelings that you have expressed. I see women more clearly, appreciate them more and release way more fish than I ever did in my youth.

Iflyfish

Hmmmmm! I see fish more clearly but I release way more women than I ever did in my youth. Of course, I've been released by a few women too, only to live another day. Must be some kinda Freudian, psycho/sexual thing. :lol:

Skipjack Joe - 6-6-2008 at 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
Shipjack, you crack me up!

"I like to compare it to the church's view on sex a century ago. If you do it with the intent to procreate, more power to you. You're serving mankind (and God).If you're just enjoying it for it's own sake - hell and damnation."

I have never clanded fish with the intent of having s.. with them, however I am a very tolerant person and if that is your predaliction, and the fish are willing...heh, who am I to complain?

If there were indeed an afterlife, I would expect that I would have the most interesting people around me, you included probably! Others can have the harps and choirs.

You crack me up!

Iflyfish

That's me - a barrel of laughs.

Perhaps I should elaborate.

As you pointed out we have fangs for a reason. There are certain biological roots that go way back. Two of them are the desire to procreate and the desire to pursue food. We have been created to enjoy doing both. It makes no sense to me to legislate or moralize about such basic human needs. In my opinion they always fail. I make the comparison because we are wired to like both in order to survive as a species. I like the comparison and see value in it.

P.S.
As you know the salmon fishery has closed on our coast for several reasons, but one of the main ones is that the runoff water in california is being diverted by the agribusiness. The people who have fought the longest to preserve our water flows and all the riparian wildlife that goes with it have been sportfishermen. I know this for a fact 'cause I've been getting an endless stream of requests to write to congressmen on these issues for decades. Strange that a group of 'torturers' would put so much more time and work into this than the 'moral' people living in the large metropolitan areas.

[Edited on 6-6-2008 by Skipjack Joe]

Osprey - 6-6-2008 at 07:00 PM

Skip, uh huh, yeah, almost fascinating.

fishbuck - 6-6-2008 at 08:54 PM

I'm glad to see Osprey took my little jab as it was intended. Which was in jest.
I'm all for treating animals as humanely as possible. Not for them but for me. It certainly may be somewhat instinctive to be a blood thirsty brute but it's not very helpful in modern life.
I do like to take fish for subsitance and will take 1 fish per day if I can. I don't like eating frozen fish so it will go to waste and that is a crime against nature for sure.
When I caught my big rooster a couple weeks ago my only regret was that I didn't get the hook out before he "released" himself. I wanted a great photo but I was concerned about lifting a fatigued fish out of the water. I'm sure he was none the worse for the wear and I was grateful the he interupted his busy day to play with me for a while.
Fish are my little buddies in the water and I love to look at them when I'm diving.
Okay, that little admission seems to have sapped my tetosterone a little so I need to go yell at one of my coowerkers for no good reason and get pumped back up a little. :mad:

Sharksbaja - 6-6-2008 at 09:38 PM

Arrrrrrrgh, mmfftt, grrrrrrr! Yes I do feel better now. Nothing like a good(fish) fight to get the manstuff flowing! You are good sports and sportsmen. :biggrin:

bajadogs - 6-6-2008 at 10:44 PM

GREAT topic Osprey! ¡Gracias!

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
I believe that there is a reason that we have inherited a set of canine teeth.

Iffyfish,
Nature leaves us with so many clues,

we are so slow to understand -

Gorilla_teeth.jpg - 24kB

baitcast - 6-7-2008 at 08:17 AM

But this guy is a veggie eater,why the canine teeth?
Always wondered about that,strange don,t you think.
Rob

Frigatebird - 6-7-2008 at 12:59 PM

With apologies to Jack Nicholson and Tom Cruise. :spingrin:

Col. Nathan R. Jessep: You want answers?
Lt. Daniel Kaffee: I think I'm entitled.
Col. Nathan R. Jessep: You want answers?!
Lt. Daniel Kaffee: I want the truth!
Col. Nathan R. Jessep: You can't handle the truth!
-----
Col. Nathan R. Jessep: Son, we live in a world that has mouths and those mouths need to be fed by men with rods. Who's gonna do it? You? Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Nemo and curse the Anglers; you have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Nemo's death, while tragic, probably saved lives and that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.
You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you want me on that panga, you need me on that panga. We use words like action, drag, chum. We use them as the backbone of a life trying to catch something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very food I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a rod and cast. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
-----
Lt. Daniel Kaffee: Did you catch the red snapper?
Col. Nathan R. Jessep: I did the job I had to do.
Lt. Daniel Kaffee: Did you catch the red snapper?!
Col. Nathan R. Jessep: You're Gosh darn right I did!

[Edited on 6-7-2008 by Frigatebird]

BMG - 6-7-2008 at 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Frigatebird
With apologies to Jack Nicholson and Tom Cruise. :spingrin:

Col. Nathan R. Jessep: You want answers?
Lt. Daniel Kaffee: I think I'm entitled.
Col. Nathan R. Jessep: You want answers?!
Lt. Daniel Kaffee: I want the truth!
Col. Nathan R. Jessep: You can't handle the truth!
-----
Col. Nathan R. Jessep: Son, we live in a world that has mouths and those mouths need to be fed by men with rods. Who's gonna do it? You? Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Nemo and curse the Anglers; you have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Nemo's death, while tragic, probably saved lives and that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.
You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you want me on that panga, you need me on that panga. We use words like action, drag, chum. We use then as the backbone of a life trying to catch something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very food I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a rod and cast. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
-----
Lt. Daniel Kaffee: Did you catch the red snapper?
Col. Nathan R. Jessep: I did the job I had to do.
Lt. Daniel Kaffee: Did you catch the red snapper?!
Col. Nathan R. Jessep: You're Gosh darn right I did!

THAT IS FUNNY!

Iflyfish - 6-7-2008 at 01:33 PM

baitcast, other primates like ourselves, well maybe not you, eat meat, but not the gorilla. They do however posess a prodigious set of canines, no?

They must be vastigal or they would not have evolved with them. Useful at some time in their evolution. Maybe they just got too fat and lazy? Hmmmm. Interesting how fat some of those vegitarians get, human ones, not so much.

Interesting post.

Iflyfish

Iflyfish - 6-7-2008 at 01:35 PM

All I can say Frigatebird is Thank You!

Iflyfishwhennotlaughingoutloudatmyownhubrissaludosamigo

Osprey - 6-7-2008 at 06:22 PM

Frigatebird Rocks! On my end, since I've opened my veins about the "Air Boarding" I might as well fess up to the "non physical" things I admit to doing a time or two. I admit to be deeply effected by pschological warfare/torture I leaned about in books like "A Ride To Panmunjom" and "The Manchurian Candidate". I catch lots of marlin. Not by design, they just bite the trolled hook of my big Penn 50 W with 80 lb. test. I have released all of them. Like most other sportfishermen I simply gain control at the end of fight, grab the leader, remove the hook/lure revive the fish for a minute or two then release it. There were a few times (I'm not real proud of them) when I grabbed a tiny bait rod and reel, pulled the head of the beast high, out of the water, showed them the light-weight rig, the 20 lb test and said things like, "You're nothin. You just can't cut it. You'll never be a real marlin". We used a lot of visual stuff with the Vietnamese and Koreans -- cuts across all the complicated oral stimulae. Might work with big fish. Who knows? I don't do that anymore.

DENNIS - 6-7-2008 at 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
I don't do that anymore.

You've come a long way, Jorge. I'm happy to see that.

Gadget - 6-7-2008 at 08:21 PM

Osprey is yanking our chain again me thinks

Roberto - 6-7-2008 at 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gadget
Osprey is yanking our chain again me thinks

No, really? :lol:

DENNIS - 6-8-2008 at 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gadget
Osprey is yanking our chain again me thinks

I choose to believe he isn't. Why would even an entertainer joke about his moral stand on any issue? He might make fun of yours and mine but, not his own.

Iflyfish - 6-8-2008 at 08:37 AM

Dennis

"Why would even an entertainer joke about his moral stand on any issue?"

Because he is an entertainer......couldn't help myself Dennis.

Iflyfish

Skipjack Joe - 6-8-2008 at 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by baitcast
But this guy is a veggie eater,why the canine teeth?
Always wondered about that,strange don,t you think.
Rob

Robin, they could be used for fighting or maintaining dominance. One look at those and another male may think twice about trying to overtake the 'pride'. Could be useful at night against marauding leopards also. But I think the intraspecies competition makes more sense.

Iflyfish - 6-8-2008 at 09:01 AM

Interesting point Skipjack. Maybe useful also for tearing apart certain plant species, fruit hulls etc???? Birds have evolved different beaks for the purpose of eating different nuts, seads and nectors. The range of beaks in humminbirds is astounding.

Interesting to have one's basic assumptions challenged. I had always attributed our and other primate canine teeth to meat eating, tearing flesh, now there are other possibilities. And this on BajaNamad, who'da thunk it?

Iflyfish

Skipjack Joe - 6-9-2008 at 09:26 AM

Iflyfish,

Not long ago there seemed to be a lot of interest here in panda bears due to reasons I no longer remember. The evening news showed them quite often.

What I now remember were scenes about their feeding methods. After breaking chewing off a stalk of bamboo it would pierce the stalk with it's lower canine. Then the animal would bend it downward by pulling with it's front paws and drag it across that canine, raking it along the entire length of the plant. The canine in effect just sliced the plant like a knife creating long strips. Afterwards these strips were consumed.

So here was a very specialized way of canine usage by a herbivore. There just don't seem to be any absolute rules in nature.

Sharksbaja - 6-9-2008 at 03:14 PM

from somewhere important:

DENTITION
Apes have relatively well developed jaws: the lower jaw is fairly deep and the two halves are fused in the front. The dental formula is the same as Old World Monkeys: I2/2; C1/1; P2/2; M3/3 = 32. The teeth include spatulate (shovel-shaped) incisors and prominent canines; the rear edge of the upper canine hones against the front edge of the first lower premolars. The molars have 5 cusps and a complex arrangement of ridges on their grinding surfaces. The presence of squared off cheek teeth reflects the predominance of plant food in the diet. Used together, these teeth enable most apes and humans to process a variety of vegetarian food stuffs. Apes have greatly developed canines with sharp blades, which hone against the modified shearing edge of the first lower premolar tooth, and may be used as weapons.

Looks like you are all correct!(thank god) :bounce:

Iflyfish - 6-9-2008 at 04:24 PM

Sharksbaja

Not often! Fascinating discussion. I am going ape over it!

Iflyfish

synch - 10-7-2008 at 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador
Viagra, the fisherman's friend. :coolup:

I had a bad image in my mind when I read this...

frigatebird thanks I needed a laugh!

bajadave1 - 10-8-2008 at 05:47 AM