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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Torturing Fish
Torturing Fish
A while back somebody on the board made a post that inferred catch and release was like “torturing fish”. I filed that little factoid away and went on
about my business. Since then there have been long, involved discussions about appropriate subjects that have opened my eyes to just how sensitive
many members are. Overall I think active members seem much more sensitive to the views of others, open to new ideas and generally forgiving on
subjects that used to cause great rancor.
For me personally, I think I have “caught the fever” of sensitivity thanks to those who have been debating things on the regular board. I think it has
even changed the way I fish, the way I look at the sport and I wonder if others out there in cyberland are feeling the same thing.
I still enjoy fishing for sport; that is for the thrill of catching and releasing game fish and occasionally catching and keeping some tasty food fish
for the table. I will admit that I’m buying and using more circle hooks, that I’m smashing down the barbs on lots of hooks when I know what kinds of
fish are in the area.
I have not yet come to the point of arguing with myself or others about “pain vs trauma” when it comes to what the fish feels when it bites the hook,
gets played to the boat. As to “Fish Torture” I’m not doing that any more. When I did torture fish it was just a little thing I got from the war on
terror. I call it “Air Boarding” – very simple, just blow air over the gills of the subject fish. It was never prolonged because I sought little
information: where is the rest of your squad, (commanding officer – The Big Fish) what’s their favorite food, when do they eat?
I’m not too proud to admit this board has made me a better person (and perhaps saved me from prosecution by some future tribunal or piscine
inquisition).
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13043
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Gracias amigo for getting on board the soul train! I really appreciated your post as it shows great integrity (sp?), an open mind and a willingness to
learn which are all wonderful qualities...particularly in a man (jejeje)! That is what I love about this board...there is a lot to learn...good
debate...stuff that makes me laugh...and lovely caring people who share and bear their souls. bravo amigo...te respeto mucho.
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BMG
Super Nomad
Posts: 1776
Registered: 6-10-2007
Location: La Paz / Bahia Asunci�n / Away from home
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
where is the rest of your squad, (commanding officer – The Big Fish) what’s their favorite food, when do they eat?
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Did you ever get an answer? Do you recommend this technique for the insensitive fisherpeople such as me? (Or is it I?)
[Edited on 6-5-2008 by BMG]
I think the world is run by C- students.
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
Torturing Fish
A while back somebody on the board made a post that inferred catch and release was like “torturing fish”. I filed that little factoid away and went on
about my business. Since then there have been long, involved discussions about appropriate subjects that have opened my eyes to just how sensitive
many members are. Overall I think active members seem much more sensitive to the views of others, open to new ideas and generally forgiving on
subjects that used to cause great rancor.
For me personally, I think I have “caught the fever” of sensitivity thanks to those who have been debating things on the regular board. I think it has
even changed the way I fish, the way I look at the sport and I wonder if others out there in cyberland are feeling the same thing.
I still enjoy fishing for sport; that is for the thrill of catching and releasing game fish and occasionally catching and keeping some tasty food fish
for the table. I will admit that I’m buying and using more circle hooks, that I’m smashing down the barbs on lots of hooks when I know what kinds of
fish are in the area.
I have not yet come to the point of arguing with myself or others about “pain vs trauma” when it comes to what the fish feels when it bites the hook,
gets played to the boat. As to “Fish Torture” I’m not doing that any more. When I did torture fish it was just a little thing I got from the war on
terror. I call it “Air Boarding” – very simple, just blow air over the gills of the subject fish. It was never prolonged because I sought little
information: where is the rest of your squad, (commanding officer – The Big Fish) what’s their favorite food, when do they eat?
I’m not too proud to admit this board has made me a better person (and perhaps saved me from prosecution by some future tribunal or piscine
inquisition). |
Yes, I am guilty of venting my sensitivities on this board. I think I am somewhat of the same mentality as you while fishing. However, I have never
air boarded a fish. What I do instead is talk to them incessantly, sort of like I do here sometimes.  Unfortunately, too many of the releases become floaters as a result. 
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Shari, igualmente
BMG, there is hope for you if you have never been known as a lip ripper. They won't talk. Cold-blooded.
[Edited on 6-5-2008 by Osprey]
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
A while back somebody on the board made a post that inferred catch and release was like “torturing fish”. |
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Catch and release is more like "playing with your food", either yours or someone else's on down the line.
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Ken Bondy
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Mood: Mellow
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Osprey you are very eloquent and thought provoking. I was an avid fisherman for many years, basically the first four decades of my life. I gave
little thought to the pain I was or was not inflicting, or what the jurel was feeling as it thrashed about and eventually became still in the bottom
of my inflatable. That all changed when I started diving and taking pictures underwater. I realized that fish, albeit cold-blooded, have distinct
personalities, not unlike our domesticated pets. Some are shy, others are curious and will approach and inspect you at close range. All of them are
superbly adapted to their environments, be it benthic or pelagic. Because of this, I simply cannot kill a fish any more. I am not judgmental about
sport fishing, although I can't personally do it any more. I am not without some hypocrisy -- I still eat seafood as long as someone else does the
killing. I just can't do the killing myself. Whew, I'm glad that's off my chest 
++Ken++
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LancairDriver
Super Nomad
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Registered: 2-22-2008
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In my experience, the older one gets the more sensitive they become to the feelings of other supposedly "less advanced" species. Here in Oregon, even
some of the older commercial fishermen have some guilt feelings about some of the marine life they encounter. For example, many report how a captured
octopus will scream while looking at their captor as if begging to be released. I have personally seen this. Many will release an octopus even though
it can bring in some extra cash. The sport fisherman or hunter have presumably progressed beyond the hunter/gatherer stage where killing was a
necessity to survive. It is now done primarily for sport. And yes, I still fish and am uncomfortable taking any more than I can eat, and try to
release as gently as possible. I quit hunting years ago but don't condemn those who do. I now prefer to simply observe the various wildlife that I
used to hunt. If I were a diver and had access to Ken Bondys underwater observations I would probably feel more the same way with marine life.
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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I know it's horrible! Should have heard the sardines the other day when I was out taking pictures of the seiners. Haven't slept since. Today I'm going
to drink a case of non-returnable Tecates. Just for madicial reasons.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Russ, Don't do it! Drinking a case of Tecate could have far-reaching
consequences, not to mention a bad head and digestive problems.
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Humbled by a Humboldt
Catch This
I just read an article in a Baja magazine about squid. It seems the poor devils have a very short life span. A two-year-old squid is a very old
animal. I remember some other interesting facts about squid intelligence. Squid and octopi have the brains to actually think and are just a click
under Homo habilis, our "handy man" progenitor who used tools.
Squid and octopi are among the sea animals that use body color changes to communicate. A few of the reasons for this are obvious: Evasion from
predators, sexual identification and recognition, territorial signals and stimulus for migration and feeding. Although using color changes to deceive
has helped them survive, they are pikers in the business of deception compared to other clever animals, up and down the long ladder of evolution.
I have, in my tackle bag, a special lure to catch squid. My personal achievement in deception, (in this case, self-deception), is at a very high
level -- I have selectively forgotten how I came by this device. It is constructed of metal tubing, a glow-in-the-dark white plastic body and row
upon row of upward pointing spines. It effectively resembles a baby squid, while the rows of murderously sharp needles wait to ensnare the suckers
and tentacles of the hungry squid. I have used the device only once.
It began as an ordinary fishing day. There were three of us in the boat, the sea was slate gray, flat and showed no signs of feeding fish no matter
how hard we looked. After 3 or 4 hours of cold beer, hot sun and old fish tales, we spotted a group of about l0 boats. We headed their way hoping
they had happened on some tuna or dorado. When we got closer we saw that they had found a small but productive seamount and were busy hauling in 5
foot long, 40 to 50 pound squid. In a second I found the special lure, attached an appropriate weight for the current and depth and dropped it over
the side.
At about 150 feet down I hooked a good one and immediately began to reel it in. No match for my 80 pound test line, the squid was hauled up
alongside the boat in no time. I sunk the gaff deep into the body of the squid and held it fast until it could expel it's ebony ink, quarts at a
time. Satisfied most of the inking was complete, we hauled it into the forward compartment. I was near the bow and could observe our catch.
The powerful tentacles were nearest, writhing furiously to gain a purchase on anything. The tubular body ended in a spadelike tail. Ink was still
pumping into the bottom of our small boat in bubbly clouds beneath the beast and its huge eye seemed to be fixed on me. It was difficult to determine
the color of the animal. Rapid and rhythmic waves of neon bright colors were displayed along the full length of its translucent body. The display
was dramatic, lazer bright against the brilliance of a sunny day at sea in the tropics. This was not the subtle bioluminescence needed in the murky
depths, it was the repeated shouts of a very simple message; I'M DYING, WHY ARE YOU KILLING ME?
For the next 10 minutes I was transfixed. Psychedelic colors screamed up and down the squid's length like an electronic reader board with all the
circuits blown. Then the lights stopped. The creature was dead.
As my heart rate slowed. I finally had the time to collect myself and try to remember what I had been thinking when I first lowered the lure into the
depths. High blood of the sportsman at the moment of encounter? Arrogant showmanship to impress my fishing partners? Admiration from my friends
and neighbors on the beach when I return with my tasty catch?
My answer came slowly but it was crystal clear -- when I set about for the capturing and killing of this wondrous animal my mind had been a vacuum, a
sorrowfully empty space. We humans are so advanced that our deceptions help us kill without thought or motive.
In my remorse I have pledged never to try to catch and kill another squid.
I'm into sharks now. Sharks are mean, real fighters, and they fight fair. They are, during and after the fight, a very comforting and forgiving
shade of gray.
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BMG
Super Nomad
Posts: 1776
Registered: 6-10-2007
Location: La Paz / Bahia Asunci�n / Away from home
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
BMG, there is hope for you if you have never been known as a lip ripper.
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Good to know. I have never been known as a "lip ripper".
I have been told frequently that I need a "lip zipper" though.
Russ - I have it on good authority that 1 case is not enough to get you to the end zone. A shot of Wild Turkey in each one should do the trick though.
I think the world is run by C- students.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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| Quote: |
In my remorse I have pledged never to try to catch and kill another squid.I'm into sharks now. Sharks are mean, real fighters, and they fight fair.
They are, during and after the fight, a very comforting and forgiving shade of gray.
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Hmmm, say George how's about conceding to the sharks too. Sharks like the Humbolt squid and marlin are apex predators.
Check this out>
Analysis of the stomach contents of 204 blue marlin (Makaira mazara) caught by the sport-fishing fleet of Cabo San Lucas in the southern Gulf of
California is presented. The specimens sampled were caught during the summer and fall of 1987, 1988, and 1989 when the sea is warm (28–30°C). Blue
marlin were found to feed on 35 prey species, 3 of which represented 90% of the total stomach contents by frequency of occurrence. The main prey were
epipelagic organisms from the oceanic zone and demersal fishes from the neritic zone. The most important prey were bullet mackerel Auxis spp., young
finescale triggerfish Balistes polylepis, and the giant squid Dosidicus gigas.
That's food for thought. Now, the question is. What are those sharks eating?
I know your tongue-in-cheek style Jorge but cmon, break down and hug a shark today!
Seriously, someone might think you're telling the truth.
btw, while working around squid and researchers in the 80s I learned some interesting facts about these cephlapods. Their intelligence is uncanny
and they use their memory not just instincts.Their eyes are a very developed organ similar to our own and capable of seeing quite well.
I hear they can tell what you are thinking just by gazing into your eye. Perhaps that was the moment of your epiphany Osprey. The moment the squid
entered your soul and helped you see the light. Oh what a glorious moment it must have been.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Sharks, that's just an old piece still cluttering up my computer. I wasn't serious about fishing for sharks. Sharks have gotten a rotten shake for all
of human history. People go out of their way to kill them just like they might see a rattler on the highway and swerve on purpose to kill it. Makes no
sense at all. When I was about 10 years old I went fishing on a small navy bay boat with 2 sailors at Key West. For no reason they caught and broarded
a large lemon shark -- the shark destroyed the boat's center console, the decking, the inside wooden hull fixtures before they could subdue it, throw
it back. I've always hoped they lost some stripes or freedom for that boneheaded move.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Ya got me thinking again about this Osprey. Great post.
I believe that there is a reason that we have inherited a set of canine teeth. Need I elaborate? I sincerly doubt that they are vestigle.
Thus equiped as a self conscious omnivore we contemplate such things as the feelings of fish. What a dillema, Rollo May says that we are gods that
chit. He has a point. We can think in an abstract way about these things yet are tied to our human nature and body. We can contemplate and postulate a
relationship with a higher power and create great religions and even see ourselves as gods. Me, not so much. This expuisite self consciousness is of
course the seed of consciousness, and therefore conscience.
My consciousness has been highly influenced by testosterone and hubris. As I age I am much less driven by the former and less apt to the later. Thank
goodness that this is true. Some have called it wisdom, some just getting old and philosophical.
I once caught a wonderful, beautiful Steelhead in an Oregon stream, it glowed with lumenescence, like on sees during a red tide in Baja.....amazing,
like a shimmering aura of life, like the squid you described in your post, irridescent, psychedelic colors that seemed to arise out of the fish, like
an aura. I kissed it and let it go. It moved me.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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I hit the worn button and posted the above without finishing it.
As I slow down and appreciate that which is around me I share the feelings that you have expressed. I see women more clearly, appreciate them more and
release way more fish than I ever did in my youth.
Iflyfish
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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You all know I love fish. An not just to eat either. I respect them as fellow human beings too
Heck I might even try to learn about circle hooks. I might even look at the package when I'm buying "J" hooks at Turners.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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Well my post concerning the sexual orientation of the newly feminized Osprey was deleted so I guess someone was offended. But I won't appolgize
because that goes against the Fishbuck creed of never admitting a mistake. So since I don't make mistakes it must have been the moderators fault.
Anyway, I thought this might help Osprey understand this new fish hugging behavior:
Andropause, the Male Menopause
Although most people know that Menopause has generated a large population of women who have excessive rates of bone fracture and CHD, men also suffer
from these conditions. The male menopause or Andropause, is due to hypogonadism- low testosterone levels. Andropause, the word, appeared in the
literature in 1952 and is defined at the natural cessation of the sexual function in older men. Andropause also refers to sexual regression in men
over 40 due to dropping male hormone levels.
So my recommendation is go out and kill something violently and that should raise your testosterone level back up to "Manly". Maybe a fist fight will
help too but only if you win
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Yes Osprey , go kill a roosterfish! WHOOPS sorry Fishbuck!
Go hug a roosterfish & kill a sardine.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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