New Fishing Service out of Puertecitos!

Wow what a nice deal!

Well, how's about "Baja Nomaids"

Hola Nomads!

Thanks Pascuale for putting this out there for me!

Isla El Muerto is 5 miles off shore. Huerfanito is about 1 mile. they both hold fish if you know where to look There are yellowtail at those islands during certain times of the year.

As far as the cost of $400 per day being too expensive, well, I have the price that low because I can book the boat every weekend with MEXICAN clients who appreciate how hard it is to get a reliable BRAND NEW craft to that area and to have the proper licenses and insurance.

The "road" if you want to call it that, to access areas close to the islands to launch a boat will do $400 dollars in damage to your trailer before you get it to the shore, then if you do go out in a little tin boat and get hit by the wind you get blown away and possibly swamped by 5ft whitecaps. Not that it always goes like that, only 70% of the time.

I one time went out in a panga that had the cylinder head re-fused together with JB weld, yep good ole JB weld.......20 miles out with no chance of rescue.....yep I hope it holds........$250 for the day..............JB weld............"hey amigo, do you have a RADIO in here somewhere?".........."I gotte radio but is at for the home, no prolem I fixe the enchen ver goood with the JB weldit".........

We will have the boat ready to work by July the 25th. After that the customers will let me know how my pricing is by how many trips I book.

If you are interested in taking her to the islands you can get me on my website for reservations or you can just go for it and try and find my Partner Naty in town. He lives on the east side of the runway. Channel 9 on VHF

If you go for it without reservations dont be mad if the boat is busy or Naty aint home.

By the way, there is gas in Puertecitos now but you guys probably already know that. The PEMEX has gas only.

Whats up Capt Mike? I need your plane later this month! Get with me!

Dale
GTB

We are a Mexican owned company. Sorry for the website troubles it is a PC , MAC thing I think. Not too great at computers, but I can find the fish!

Here's a photo of some of the Enchanted Islands... the closest in El Huerfanito (The Little Orphan)... all by itself, away from the others!:

Quote:

Originally posted by gonetobaja Hola Nomads! Thanks Pascuale for putting this out there for me! Isla El Muerto is 5 miles off shore. Huerfanito is about 1 mile. they both hold fish if you know where to look There are yellowtail at those islands during certain times of the year. As far as the cost of $400 per day being too expensive, well, I have the price that low because I can book the boat every weekend with MEXICAN clients who appreciate how hard it is to get a reliable BRAND NEW craft to that area and to have the proper licenses and insurance. The "road" if you want to call it that, to access areas close to the islands to launch a boat will do $400 dollars in damage to your trailer before you get it to the shore, then if you do go out in a little tin boat and get hit by the wind you get blown away and possibly swamped by 5ft whitecaps. Not that it always goes like that, only 70% of the time. I one time went out in a panga that had the cylinder head re-fused together with JB weld, yep good ole JB weld.......20 miles out with no chance of rescue.....yep I hope it holds........$250 for the day..............JB weld............"hey amigo, do you have a RADIO in here somewhere?".........."I gotte radio but is at for the home, no prolem I fixe the enchen ver goood with the JB weldit"......... We will have the boat ready to work by July the 25th. After that the customers will let me know how my pricing is by how many trips I book. If you are interested in taking her to the islands you can get me on my website for reservations or you can just go for it and try and find my Partner Naty in town. He lives on the east side of the runway. Channel 9 on VHF If you go for it without reservations dont be mad if the boat is busy or Naty aint home. By the way, there is gas in Puertecitos now but you guys probably already know that. The PEMEX has gas only. Whats up Capt Mike? I need your plane later this month! Get with me! Dale GTB

Thanks, Fishbuck-- good info

You are not the first person from the states to complain about paying a fair wage for a service in Baja. I have seen first hand how tourist will come down to baja and expect that people, because they are poor, to be desperate and do everything under the sun to please the tourists.

Its usually the tourist that want the lowest prices that want the most service, and who will say the most stuff if they dont get it. The same type of person that wants a 3 dollar discount on a 15 DOLLAR blanket. "Tell the senyor that I will give him 12...."

If you are trying to build a case on how our services are overpriced, do me a favor and do some research on licensed guide services between San Felipe and Gonzaga and tell me what you come up with. Other charters and their prices, hundreds of miles to the south of me are hardly relevant.

But like you said, whatever the market will bear......I guess my plans of getting rich doing fishing trips in baja are out the window.....

I'm going to try and be a little nicer to Dale.
I did research the Enchanted Islands in the archives of Mexfish. There are some fish there.
I found one report from private boaters in a 28ft skipjack. They did catch 2 dorado trolling outside the islands.
It was in August. When they went to a store in Gonzaga or somewhere there the thermometer read 132 degrees. The writer didn't think it was right and that it was really only 122 degrees.
The dodos were 20lb class. Nice fish. They also caught some yellowtail. But none bigger than 10lbs. Mostly much smaller. Smaller!?
Sierra mackerel where the other good game fish. Grouper were down in 1000 feet of water trying to stay cool.
That was really the only good report. There were many too.
Dale, sir, I admire you for living your dream. You've got balls.
But may I suggest that you should announce the grand opening of your sportfishing business with a more... um... cheaper price?
Say $200/day? And then build up a clientle and post a bunch of great photos of fish and your boat and smiling fisherman.
My friends Shari and Juan have posted some great photos. So good in fact that I drove the 500-600 miles just to fish there.
And when I meet them I wanted to hang out with them and fish with Juan every chance I can.
And if fish are around Juan will find them too.
We fished in a minipanga with three men and piled fish up in that thing.
It was some of the best purist fishing I have ever done.
So I don't know how you came up with your business model but it may be unrealistic.
Some people built a fancy boutique hotel. It's beautiful. They opened and the price was $400/night. I checked it today and it's now $200/night. Maybe this time next year it will be $100/night. The market will determine the price.
But please keep us informed. I may be wrong about this. If so I will buy a panda and open a sportfishing business there.
Do they make pangas with airconditioning.

Fishbuck,

Thanks for taking the time to comment on my post. Any and all comments to me are welcome and appreciated.

The area where I fish is not very well known or fished.

I have been in business for 5 years now and we do mostly 5 day all inclusive trips. They cost 1,200 dollars per person and include transportation from San Diego and back as well as lodging, meals, and 3 days of fishing. I cant be on the water all of the time so we needed to change our services.

The new service is the per day charter of the Panga. The pricing may be different in the areas where you go because of the massive amount of tourists there. I know operators in those areas who take people out for 250 for 4 hours. The do 2 and sometimes 3 trips per day.

We leave at sunup and are off the water by 4pm. Our usual route is the 30 miles to the south to hit the islands and then back. So fuel can be an issue. In addition, there is no rescue or other commercial boats except for the shrimpers in my area and Sr. Tony Reyes. We keep a rescue boat at shore for us only. We also carry survival gear, water maker, and radio/rescue equipment for the saftey of the customers. Me and my partner speak english.

As far as fish, the only ones we dont have are Wahoo and Tuna. I have seen and caught every other type myself so I know they are there.

We are located 3 hours south of the Mexicali border and are within easy reach of weekend tourists that want to get away for a few days and not have to catch a jet to baja Sur.

Puertecitos is a dump? Well, I will talk to the people there and after we figure out how to get full time power and running water we will tackle other issues. I spend alot of time on the beach picking up trash left over by tourists who think that if they camp on the beach and leave a big ass bag of trash then it will somehow dissapear like magic.

I am often asked by people...."why dosent that guy clean up the plastic bags stuck on the cactus and stuff...." Little do they realize that "that guy" has no bathroom in his house and his problems of getting water and power are more pressing than keeping the hillside clean. There were lots of scrap metal guys who came into town and took most of the old cars, so that looks better, but for the most part......

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder......

FYI A proper Mexican company for fishing and diving charters costs over 7,000 per year in permits, licenses, taxes, and insurance. just to turn the key legal, as a foreigner in Mexico, I am compelled to follow ALL the rules and not try to fly under the radar for risk of loosing everything.

Here are some pics of the fish we get and the dump where I live

Sheri,

I just looked at your website, and IMHO you do need to raise your prices. Im not sure how you can operate at those rates when one bad day can end up in a bent or destroyed prop that can cost the profit of 8 weeks at your rates. I started with lower prices when I first got going, 4 day all inclusive trips with lodging and food plus the boat for two days for 700 bucks.

Several propelors, rudders, waterpumps, impellors, hull repairs, trailer damages, and boat ramp fees later I decided that I would actually have to raise my prices or just go out of business. Im not sure how it is down south but in my area we pay our taxes every month. We use the equivelant of a Mexican CPA to handle our books so everything is proper.

If you are taking people out for 100 bucks after you subtract fuel, taxes, insurance, and licenses how much are you making? Not enough in my neck of baja to get your water tank filled and buy some chicken legs.

By the looks of your website you offer a great service with a wide range of options for your customers. My advice would be to raise your prices so you can offer this service to anyone and everyone for years in the future. It is very hard to offer a stable dependable service for tourists when you are just getting by.

One of the main problems I have encountered over the years is that there is a majority of tourists who think that barganing down the prices is the "Mexican Way". I would like to submit that this is the "Tourist Way". I dont know of any mexicans that try and jack their paisanos out of 3 dollars of profit. Its the tourists who come down and think that everything should be a bargin because its Mexico. People think that by going down to Baja and buying stuff at a super low price is a helpfull thing. The truth is that tourism can also be just as harmfull to areas as helpfull. Paying for goods or services from a vendor and not allowing them to make enough profit to take care of their families has been the standard operating procedures for tourists for too long.

How much does a blanket vendor or a panga operator or a taco stand make in a day? Well take a look at the areas where the people live that perform these services for tourists. They live in 1 room shacks with no running water, a car battery for power and a VHF radio for a phone (if that). They take the 17 dollars they made for the day and get rice and beans and some propane and hope to survive another day. I have spent alot of time with my friends in the area where I live. I have never met a Mexican who brags on how much money he is making off of the tourists. The only ones I know sit at home at the end of the day after taking care of a tourist all day, cleaning their fish, loading and unloading their gear, and then get a 10 dollar tip for the day because the tourist was thinking....."Damn I already paid 300 bucks for a freekin panga, they should do that stuff for free...."

Whoever reads this if you are a tourist that goes to Baja and tries to squeeze all the profit out of every service you see or use than you might consider that you may be one of the reasons that the panga guy that you use every year still lives in a one room shack.

Someone told me once that if you are not part of the solution than you may be the problem.

I cant buy something in Mexico with a clear mind unless I give the dude a couple of bucks more than he wanted. To me its a couple of bucks, to the vendor its his families welfare. I never got buyers remorse from giving the vendor a 20 dollar bill for something he wanted 16 bucks for.

But Im so rich that I can buy 6 dollar burgers at Carls Jr and just throw the fries in the trash...sometimes I even upgrade to onion rings...cause Im rich like that, I even tipped a taco stand 5 dollars one time for 3 fish tacos...money is no object for a rich charter captain like me.....its just how I roll....

Dale

Quote:

Originally posted by gonetobaja Quote: Originally posted by shari Holy bigfish...great pics Dale and nice dump too! (Although you don't look mexican) You make excellent points about the high cost of permits and being legal which most tourist have no concept of at all. This is why us mexican businesses get so steamed when foreigners "take people fishing"...you know...meet tourists in bars and say hey I'll take ya fishing on my boat..which really cuts into the legitimate businesses charters, as well as all the illegitimate charter "operations"...hard to compete with those... Plus the point about getting all the stuff into your remote area and the price of gas etc...but I see now from the price lists that we need to raise our prices....maybe double!!! suerte compañero Sheri, I just looked at your website, and IMHO you do need to raise your prices. Im not sure how you can operate at those rates when one bad day can end up in a bent or destroyed prop that can cost the profit of 8 weeks at your rates. I started with lower prices when I first got going, 4 day all inclusive trips with lodging and food plus the boat for two days for 700 bucks. Several propelors, rudders, waterpumps, impellors, hull repairs, trailer damages, and boat ramp fees later I decided that I would actually have to raise my prices or just go out of business. Im not sure how it is down south but in my area we pay our taxes every month. We use the equivelant of a Mexican CPA to handle our books so everything is proper. If you are taking people out for 100 bucks after you subtract fuel, taxes, insurance, and licenses how much are you making? Not enough in my neck of baja to get your water tank filled and buy some chicken legs. By the looks of your website you offer a great service with a wide range of options for your customers. My advice would be to raise your prices so you can offer this service to anyone and everyone for years in the future. It is very hard to offer a stable dependable service for tourists when you are just getting by. One of the main problems I have encountered over the years is that there is a majority of tourists who think that barganing down the prices is the "Mexican Way". I would like to submit that this is the "Tourist Way". I dont know of any mexicans that try and jack their paisanos out of 3 dollars of profit. Its the tourists who come down and think that everything should be a bargin because its Mexico. People think that by going down to Baja and buying stuff at a super low price is a helpfull thing. The truth is that tourism can also be just as harmfull to areas as helpfull. Paying for goods or services from a vendor and not allowing them to make enough profit to take care of their families has been the standard operating procedures for tourists for too long. How much does a blanket vendor or a panga operator or a taco stand make in a day? Well take a look at the areas where the people live that perform these services for tourists. They live in 1 room shacks with no running water, a car battery for power and a VHF radio for a phone (if that). They take the 17 dollars they made for the day and get rice and beans and some propane and hope to survive another day. I have spent alot of time with my friends in the area where I live. I have never met a Mexican who brags on how much money he is making off of the tourists. The only ones I know sit at home at the end of the day after taking care of a tourist all day, cleaning their fish, loading and unloading their gear, and then get a 10 dollar tip for the day because the tourist was thinking....."Damn I already paid 300 bucks for a freekin panga, they should do that stuff for free...." Whoever reads this if you are a tourist that goes to Baja and tries to squeeze all the profit out of every service you see or use than you might consider that you may be one of the reasons that the panga guy that you use every year still lives in a one room shack. Someone told me once that if you are not part of the solution than you may be the problem. I cant buy something in Mexico with a clear mind unless I give the dude a couple of bucks more than he wanted. To me its a couple of bucks, to the vendor its his families welfare. I never got buyers remorse from giving the vendor a 20 dollar bill for something he wanted 16 bucks for. But Im so rich that I can buy 6 dollar burgers at Carls Jr and just throw the fries in the trash...sometimes I even upgrade to onion rings...cause Im rich like that, I even tipped a taco stand 5 dollars one time for 3 fish tacos...money is no object for a rich charter captain like me.....its just how I roll.... Dale

Dale,
You really don't like some of your customers, do you?. When you take a disliking to your customers, do you throw them to the sharks?
You sound like a gringo, and your company cars have CA plates -- but you said you were a mexican biz. ?? How/why do you do transport in Mexico w/o mex vehicles and mexican drivers,... taxi and bus drivers in cities will eat you for lunch when they find out.

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck I'm going to try and be a little nicer to Dale. I did research the Enchanted Islands in the archives of Mexfish. There are some fish there. I found one report from private boaters in a 28ft skipjack. They did catch 2 dorado trolling outside the islands. It was in August. When they went to a store in Gonzaga or somewhere there the thermometer read 132 degrees. The writer didn't think it was right and that it was really only 122 degrees. The dodos were 20lb class. Nice fish. They also caught some yellowtail. But none bigger than 10lbs. Mostly much smaller. Smaller!? Sierra mackerel where the other good game fish. Grouper were down in 1000 feet of water trying to stay cool. That was really the only good report. There were many too. Dale, sir, I admire you for living your dream. You've got balls. But may I suggest that you should announce the grand opening of your sportfishing business with a more... um... cheaper price? Say $200/day? And then build up a clientle and post a bunch of great photos of fish and your boat and smiling fisherman. My friends Shari and Juan have posted some great photos. So good in fact that I drove the 500-600 miles just to fish there. And when I meet them I wanted to hang out with them and fish with Juan every chance I can. And if fish are around Juan will find them too. We fished in a minipanga with three men and piled fish up in that thing. It was some of the best purist fishing I have ever done. So I don't know how you came up with your business model but it may be unrealistic. Some people built a fancy boutique hotel. It's beautiful. They opened and the price was $400/night. I checked it today and it's now $200/night. Maybe this time next year it will be $100/night. The market will determine the price. But please keep us informed. I may be wrong about this. If so I will buy a panda and open a sportfishing business there. Do they make pangas with airconditioning.

Fishbuck,

Sounds like you need a trip to TJ to improve your attitude.


Ken

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666 Dale, You really don't like some of your customers, do you?. When you take a disliking to your customers, do you throw them to the sharks? You sound like a gringo, and your company cars have CA plates -- but you said you were a mexican biz. ?? How/why do you do transport in Mexico w/o mex vehicles and mexican drivers,... taxi and bus drivers in cities will eat you for lunch when they find out.

I am a gringo with a FM-3 and a work visa. I have permanent residency. The company is owned buy my partner who is Mexican. I speak spanish and my wife is Mexican, my time in mexico is measured in years not trips. We do not provide a "transportation service" per say and do not offer "transportation" as a solo option. If a person orders an all inclusive package the truck ride is just part of the deal. The Hacienda has no problem with me providing transportation as part of the overall service, nor do they have a problem with using my home for the people to stay there. The problem arises when you try and use your home as a per night hotel, or your vehicle as a per ride business. These types of business need to be licensed and taxed accordingly. Similar if a panga operator offers you lunch, that does not mean he is a licensed resturant.

I love my customers, when I get one that I dont like I keep my mouth shut and do my job, which is get them on the fish and get them back to shore safely. Unfortunately being a guide is a "customer service" position and you get all types of people comming down for the service. You never know when are going to get bad apple but I can assure you that they are out there. Run a tourist service company and you will see what I mean.

Start the day with a tourist that has been drinking from 7:30 am and then take them out on the water for 6 hours. Then feel my pain as he takes a leak all over the back of the boat because he is too drunk to stand up straight by 10am and wants to blame you because a wave hit the boat when he was taking a leak and he got it on his leg.

The information I post here on the Nomads board is aquired from experience in the tourist industry, not speculation. Every job has its bad days, thats why they call it work. The majority of my customers are return customers, they know that if they book me than I will be ready with no excuses. I have put many people on their biggest fish, most fish, whale shark rides, and other once and a lifetime experiences. I love the look on someones face when they have one of those days. But sometimes a person comes down on a vacation with pre-concived ideas on how it should go and ends up stressed out because things in Baja dont always go as planned. Sometimes these people will take out their stress on the people who are trying to give them the services they are looking for.

A person drives hours to get to baja only to have the charter operator tell him that the wind is too bad to get to the islands, he will have to stay close to shore for triggerfish and snapper......it is not unheard of for the customer to blame the captian and be peeed off all day.

Im just passing some knowledge to the Nomads who come down to baja so they can have a little insight as to what the service providers really think. The stuff I am writing on this board is downright kind compared to some of the things I have heard other service providers say about tourists.

bottom line is that our company offers a LEGAL, DEPENDABLE AND FAIR SERVICE, we work hard and do what we say.

Some people might read this and not like it because it may sound like them. I dont make stuff up I just report the facts.

Okay I'm at work. Those are some great fish! But looks like mostly spearfishing. But some beautiful fish. Thanks for posting them. Mostly bottom fish, any palegics?
Thank you for taking the time to explain the costs. I'm sure it is very expensive to run a first class operation like yours.
But keep in mind that it's equally expensive for the fisherman who would drive or fly to your location and stay a day or two.
Anyway, I'm curious to see how it works out for you. You have certainly handled my comments like a gentleman and I sincerely wish you great fishing and sucess.

Yah, and I have seen the 'ugly tourist' who throw their trash about and leave dirty diapers on the beach... and I don't say a thing to them when I see it, because in all cases, it was 'their country' that they were trashing and as a foreignor I would be out of place.

40 years ago, Americans didn't do a very good job of hauling out trash either... It takes education and desire... and thinking about the future generations, too.

Everyone has their opinion--

goat , you're eating too much of your dung !!

Quote:

by goats Dale, You really don't like some of your customers, do you?. When you take a disliking to your customers, do you throw them to the sharks? You sound like a gringo, and your company cars have CA plates -- but you said you were a mexican biz. ?? How/why do you do transport in Mexico w/o mex vehicles and mexican drivers,... taxi and bus drivers in cities will eat you for lunch when they find out.

Good morning everyone!




A couple of quick points.

Diver,

I dont hate the Nomads, I have no hatred for anyone.
To me a tourist is someone that comes from another place and "visits" your place. They do not need to be "Gringos" If you saw how much trash after Semana Santa on the beach you would agree with me that there are people that visit places with respect, and those that feel that visiting a place gives them the right to trash it because the are going to leave in a couple of days. I dont appreciate those types of people no matter where they are from.

Fishbuck,

I read your article that you posted. I am speculating, but the person who wrote it may have been looking at writing some exciting travel information and went with the norm because that person had no insight as to what the deal really is. Can you imagine the reaciton of the editor if they would have wrote......

"Mexico is an economicaly depressed country. In some areas tourism is the sole income of a family. Try and pay more than they ask or the full price and you will be helping out a family that does not have the opportunity in the USA that you do. Paying the full price is honorable and the amount of extra money you spend is not really that much...."

As far as the idea that families are waiting for a "gringo" to save them, well I dont think so, but If help is offered in the form of good wages, prices, or a gift of thanks, not pity, it can be well recieved.

I dont just talk about this stuff guys. Here is a link to a spearfishing tournement that I have every year. This year we decided to use the procededs to pay for building materials for my partners house. My partner Naty has been helping out tourists by saving them for years. He has resuced moto bike guys with broken ribs from the hills, and fishermen from the sea. his thanks? sometimes the rescued person has no money and there is no reward for the fuel and time used. his thanks is knowing that he is a good person and can sleep at night. We decided to thank him for his help.

http://spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=65757&highlight=p...

This is the link so you guys understand I dont just talk about paying full price and helping out my friends, I really do it. This is not a bunch of words.

Try going over the top to help out a person that you know needs it. Short of loosing the extra dough, you will find that you can only gain. Take the look on the vendors face when you give him a 20 for a 15 dollar trinket home in your mind. When you go back (if you do) dont be surprised if the vendor remembers you and greets you with a smile.

Bringing down gifts of food, clothes, tools, etc is great, but you must remember just like your family, the baja families run into the same emergencies. Broken cars, medical bills, school fees, etc. can only be fixed with MONEY.

I can only do my small part to act and change what I can, but through this board the idea of helping out just a little more can be spread over a large area.

My dream?

A tourist goes camping on a beach somewhere, he first checks to see if its ok by the owner and gives him 15 bucks just because (I know the beach is free, but access is not). Then the camper spends a few great days on the beach, pays the campo security (the dude who lives in a shack trying to sell you firewood) 5 bucks for firewood. They leave with all of their trash in the back of their truck and head into town and get a few trinkes and pay the full price......Then in the border line they by a plaster spongebob and pay full price for that.

If everyone did that it would make a difference. 100,000 tourists or more per weekend in Baja. 10 bucks extra from each one would add up quick.

David,

It depends on your terms of "Ripped off"

As you know the peso is 10 to 1 or thereabouts. If a person is worried about getting shorted on the exchange rate that always changes then that person should take the extra time, and fuel to locate and exchange the currency for pesos. As far as disrespect goes, IMHO it is more disrespectfull to go over to the vendor who is sitting in the heat and try to grind them down off of 3 or 4 dollars of profit. From my experience no one cares how you pay as long as you do. The problem comes if you only have USA dollars and the vendor has no USA change. Then you go back to the 10 pesos to a dollar ratio. If you loose a few cents in the exchange, chalk it up to the vendor being a muilit currency taking entity. I have never had a vendor not take dollars. I have held up a 20 dollar bill and they shook their head "no" to me. I asked them what was the problem and they said that they could not take my money because they had no change in american money. When I told them I didnt care and that pesos for change was fine there was no problem.

If you think about it, the fact that a vendor will take both currencies is pretty cool. Try going to a mall in the USA and give them a 500 pesos bill.

Calexico takes pesos though!

My feeling is that the whole "dissrespect" thing stems from the frustration of the vendor who is trying to make a living. I can see the senario where a vendor has been haggled down on price to where he is making only a couple of bucks. Then his buyer pulls out dollars and then wants to make sure he gets the exact exchange rate he saw on the side of a building driving through the border. The poor vendor is now in a position to have to calculate another price according to the current exchange rate and deduct the "loss" out of his profit that is already low. He speaks very little english so he cant explain to the customer that the price was based on dollars and now that they want the exchange rate the price will be different. Rather than go through the hassle, the vendor looks at the tourist with dismay, hands him the money, takes his lumps and shakes his head as the buyer walks away....

"Whats wrong with that vendor Jerry?"

"Im not sure Norma, he seems to be a little peeed off when I wanted him to give me the proper change. I hope that guy realized he is dealing with a seasoned traveler, Im not gonna get ripped off"

"Maybe next time we should use pesos and he wont be so offended...."

"Yea, you gotta be carefull these street vendors will rip you off if you give them a chance...that guy was just mad that he couldnt screw me for the exchange difference, I tell ya Norma, you got to watch out for these guys. Good thing for us I know what Im doing..."



David, I have seen your posts for years and you are one of the most respectfull baja travelers I know of. As you understand, respect comes in many forms, the least of which is payment types. If people are concerned about how they are treating or being percieved by the locals they should pay more attention to their actions up to the time of sale, not the actual payment.

I posted the little article about bartering because I was curious of it's origin.
I believe it really is a mexican custom. But it is a thing that some "visitors" or "guests" in mexico find appealing. And fun.
If mexicans find it distasteful it certainly isn't documented. Except by Dale and Shari. Not true mexicans, sorry.
I used to feel like I was getting nickeled and dimed in Baja. But I don't worry about it as much now. I pay in both pesos and dollars and use my credit card too. But I probably buy less too. Esentials only.
I looked into exchanging dollars but with the little commission they get it doesn't save much and really isn't worth the time.
Dale, you must think all americans are rich. I wish that were true. I scrimp and save and work overtime to make my little trips. I stay in the cheapest place I can find that is tolerable and eat alot of 1 dollar tacos.
I look for the cheapest panga that will get me to the fish. No frills. And I like it that way too. Me, my fishing rod and a fish. That's all that really matters.
The alternative is no trip.
I can't afford to give money away. If you want my pesos you must earn them by providing me with a TANGABLE benefit. In the exchange I hope you are able to make a living. But that is your business. Mine is to get the best value for my dollar.
That is capitalism.
I never give money away. But if the little kid at the border entertains me with his juggleing act for a minute I give him some pesos. He earned it. And when his even littler buddy throws a single or two balls up in an attempt to juggle I give him a few. He learned by watching that if you work you get paid.
Nobody gives me free money.
So if you don't Like bartering that's fine. But if I don't go fishing with you and later you see me in the panga "JB WELD" catching fish maybe you will feel differently.
Consider it a form of silent bartering.
And for the record on my last trip I brought home all my trash except when I stay at a hotel I might throw some of the locally bought (beer cans) trash in the waste can in the room. But anything I bring across I bring home.
Tourists are people that ride big buses and go to museums and stuff.
But they way you say it Dale it sounds like a swear word. But if a drunk ahole peed all over my boat I might swear a little too.
Maybe since he paid $400/day he felt like he bought that boat so he could pee on it if he wanted to.

It always baffles me when the subject of pricing and bartering in Mexico comes up. Maybe I am missing something, but it seems real simple to me.

Prices for like fishing---set prices for what services are offered---more services, higher the price. If the price is too high, customers will go elsewhere. Tips for good service always a good idea. Bartering --- yea, also a valid thing.

It is when things are expected and and not made clear where problems can happen, IMHO. While it may to others, mystery pricing does not make sense to me. Also, I would think one would be very careful about sliding scales---word gets out that certain gringos are charged more because it appears they have more money, it could be bad for anyone's business.

Price, of course depends on area, equipment, etc., but when it is set, if the service is NOT used, then it is overpriced.

Bartering---it just amazes me when someone says that Mexicans are offended by gringos who barter. Maybe it is a local thing. I know here we find extremely few times when we are inclined to barter. Even with the open market secundas---if we are quoted a price that is really out of line, we just walk away.

However, on the mainland, bartering is expected in MANY situations. We have also been told over and over again by Mexicans that when a gringo does not barter in those situations, the Mexican vendor just think they are stupid.

Now, with the peso getting stronger and the dollar falling, it may be that soon most gringos will jump at 10 to 1.

I wish everyone well with their Baja business ventures, but IMHO, the gringo bashing will keep some away.

Diane

When our favorite vendor shows up at El Requeson as he has each day, every year we have been there, and he says " Today is a good day to buy. Today is so cheap it's almost free; tomorrow will cost more ! This blanket is $20 US but how much you want to pay ?"
Is he not inviting a conversation on price (barter) ?
He would think us stupid if we didn't barter.
He calls my wife the "tough one" but smiles when he leaves, every time she buys.
Since I first visited Mexico (Mazatlan) in the '60s, it has always been this way with the vendors.

Or Fransico, who runs the campground at El Requeson, who is always amazed that we remember his childrens' ages and ask about them and bring them gifts even though we rarely see them since they are old enough for school (they live in Mulege with mom).
When they closed Santispec and a pick-up load of pre-constructed palapa walls and roofs appeared at his door, he was thrilled and refused our money for camping for a week.
Bartering can be a really good thing for all; even the unspoken barter !

Now, if I go into a machanics shop in La Paz, I just ask the price and shop around for the best price for competent service; no bartering.
I guess it depends who you are dealing with and what the situation.

PS I always pick up my trash in Baja as I do elsewhere - gringo basher

Also, my normal "Baja" mindset does not allow me to concern myself with such small issues as the exchange rate on our usual purchases. I normally feel like everyone in Baja is part of my "good" feeling when I am there (and when I'm here) and the ALL deserve a tip !!
Thank you !

Don't know anyone that is in favor of leaving garbage all over the place.That's a nasty habit!As far as giving $10 to $20 above and beyond the set price? Go for it!That'll put you in the rich and dumb gringo catagory.

Not rich; not dumb; just generous and happy to be there !

Who said $10 or $20 ??
I'm not talking Pemex fill-ups; I'm talking beach blankets and things.
Maybe a few dollars at most.

If that makes me "dumb" in your mind than so be it !!
But what does that say about you ??

You guys are the best. Don't change a thing.
Anybody caught any yellows yet? Let's get the season rolling.
Maybe I'll bring my new boat: http://www.rainforestboats.com.mx/sportfish2282.htm

Sliding scale:
$500/day for drunk "tourists" that pee all over the place.(limit 1)
$400/day if you plan to start drinking early (limit 3)
$300/ for the mildly obnoxious (limit 3)
$250/ for real fisherman (limit 2)
Jaun goes free! (He's driving and knows where the fish are plus $10-20 tip per angler)
I guess we are pushing pangas to 4 anglers now so the tip should be good.

Here are the pics of the new boat!

its better than I ever wanted!













[/QUOTE]

Ahhhh, the good old daze !

might just be there ---

Bob - how do you........???

Mike ---have you heard of AC ???? Ha Ha !

Actually, Mike it is a bear --I've landed on better roads.

well sorry to hear that Bob but i would have talked to you 1st anyway before i jaunted in. but i can go in light i guess. the thing is i wanted to be closer to Dale's place for a pick up. otherwise it has to be San Felipe and i REALLY don't want to ride in a cage from SF to Dale's castle over that POS road!

1500 ft....ummm.........lemme think about that one.
nobody else flying in that would want it graded every once in awhile? who's paying the license fee, or is it expired? it was in a lot better shape years ago.
did you ever meet C and V from Lake Havasu ? had a rock casa on the beach 3-5 miles north of town there where they leased the dirt, they flew a C 172 Hawk XP and one day he landed to the north taxied to parking and promptly put the nose wheel into a ditch stiking the prop under med to high power! my mech who did the prop R&R in the field at Puertocitos told me it was as if he was trying to hop a wheelie over the ditch. can you believe that sh%^& ??
they sold their place. i don't know if they still fly baja, used to see them at Serenidad about once a year.

I do it all the time --and my Bo isn't a great

I wondered what happened to him --The 172 wasn't around this year.

You're the Captain --

anytime yur ready Skeet! you did win the raffle remember.
glad to hear you're getting in some stick time.
the only reason i don't have a 170B is it would take me too dang long to get there! i am up for speed, so i go comanche fast! gotta get to mexico fast and gotta get home fast too.

Yeah, but it's still a mesican road!!

i hate it when i mis spell "their"

Bucky - 5 guys want to go to BOLA , they are from santa barbara.
i can't go and have only 3 seats extra but i mentiioned Tom at 1st flight has a 6 and he can find a pilot. do you want to take them? i have a number, they might lurk here.
i think they'd drive to Brown. their only other option is Baja Airventures and paying airtaxi rates. they DO NOT WANT to DRIVE!!!!

[Edited on 8-13-2008 by capt. mike]

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike Bucky - 5 guys want to go to BOLA , they are from santa barbara. i can't go and have only 3 seats extra but i mentiioned Tom at 1st flight has a 6 and he can find a pilot. do you want to take them? i have a number, they might lurk here. i think they'd drive to Brown. their only other option is Baja Airventures and paying airtaxi rates. they DO NOT WANT to DRIVE!!!! [Edited on 8-13-2008 by capt. mike]

Sounds good Cap!

I'm checking with 1st Flight for aircraft availablity.
If you want to U2U me the number I'll call them with some possible dates.
Ya, the drive is torture.

(Looks like I'm not winning the spelling bee either)

[Edited on 8-13-2008 by fishbuck]