BajaNomad

Americans Invade Tijuana

tio_foncho - 7-28-2008 at 11:40 AM

"Americans Invade Tijuana
El Sol de Tijuana
July 27, 2008
By Sonia Garcia Ochoa

Tijuana Baja California .- While wealthy Mexicans leave Tijuana due to the lack of security and establish their residence in San Diego, poor Americans are arriving here at the border and moving in, although, as a result of the economic recession, many of them have no work and generate problems of getting along with their neighbors.

Because poverty is growing in California, especially in San Diego, which leads to the invasion of neighborhoods near the border, this causes a growing problem for the Mexican government, since Tijuana also has a flow of migrants from Central and Southern Mexico, which adds to the flow coming from the US.

In addition to that, Playas de Rosarito is a town with more than 7,000 foreigners and Ensenada has had tourist camps with pensioners and retirees from the United States living there for years, which altogether are part of the responsibility of the Mexican government for services, employment, housing and wages, but do not pay taxes.

While the National Migration Institute, does not have the powers to prevent so many foreigners from occupying the city; in a short time the influx of foreginers will create an extra burden for the government of Jorge Ramos Hernandez. "

[the article goes on to discuss that Americans moving in are pricing Mexicans out of the rental market because the landlords, many of them absentee landlords living n the US, want to rent to Americans who pay in dollars, and pay more than a Mexican can afford.]

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsoldetijuana/notas/n789332.htm

Sharksbaja - 7-28-2008 at 12:39 PM

I wonder how many of these transplants are of non-mexican heritage. Afterall, Anglos ARE a minority in many SoCal neighborhoods.:?:

gnukid - 7-28-2008 at 12:55 PM

Quote:


In addition to that, Playas de Rosarito is a town with more than 7,000 foreigners and Ensenada has had tourist camps with pensioners and retirees from the United States living there for years, which altogether are part of the responsibility of the Mexican government for services, employment, housing and wages, but do not pay taxes.

While the National Migration Institute, does not have the powers to prevent so many foreigners from occupying the city; in a short time the influx of foreginers will create an extra burden for the government of Jorge Ramos Hernandez. "


These statements typify the dualing, conflicting and confusing arguments, false paradigms, propaganda. Do not be baited by such nonsense. We are all, independents who pay our way.

The Council of Foreign Relations, Obama, Bush, Calderon, Fox etc.. all have stated their plan to cattle run the middle class into a forced Union, reducing all of our economic power, instilling a fear driven state, in order to transfer wealth and power to a global order driven elite.

Here is a link to the official plan. Consider its affect on you.

http://www.cfr.org/content/thinktank/Global_Governance_Progr...

http://www.cfr.org/content/thinktank/Global_Governance_Progr...

lizard lips - 7-28-2008 at 12:59 PM

You have got to be kidding! The author of this crap is on another planet.

Welcome to the immigration problem BONEHEAD

losfrailes - 7-28-2008 at 01:00 PM

In addition to that, Playas de Rosarito is a town with more than 7,000 foreigners and Ensenada has had tourist camps with pensioners and retirees from the United States living there for years, which altogether are part of the responsibility of the Mexican government for services, employment, housing and wages, but do not pay taxes.


Lets see if I got this right, 'pensioners and retirees from the United States' are causing a problem because providing services, employment, housing and wages' but do not pay taxes. Taxes on what. They are not employed are they? And they pay their bills don't they. Doesn't seem like they should be too much of a burden on the Mexican government.

tripledigitken - 7-28-2008 at 01:04 PM

Americans that own property in Mexico pay taxes.

Cypress - 7-28-2008 at 01:19 PM

losfrailes, You're right on all counts.:D Who the heck would have a problem with someone that pays their bills, is polite, behave themselves, and make a positive impact on the local economy?:O

Bajaboy - 7-28-2008 at 01:42 PM

And let's see, are these people living in Mexico legally. If so, I don't understand the problem.

Woooosh - 7-28-2008 at 05:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
losfrailes, You're right on all counts.:D Who the heck would have a problem with someone that pays their bills, is polite, behave themselves, and make a positive impact on the local economy?:O


That's exactly why they hate us near the border. My mexican neighbors hate every company and system they have to deal with. They rejoice in hiring a "diablito" to steal their power, they'll tap into each other's phone lines (or intercept their cordless phones) so no TelNor bill, they use fraudulent sateliite cards even if they do need to re-progam them all the time. They hate to pay up front and honest for anything. In the USA we value the exact opposite behaviors. Third world.

bajamigo - 7-28-2008 at 05:51 PM

What a crock! Doesn't the alleged reporter know that any gringo here legally has to prove income? Which they then spend here. And as for the statement, "..altogether are part of the responsibility of the Mexican government for services, employment, housing and wages, but do not pay taxes....", that is such BS.

Sadly, it's hard to imagine, at least here in Punta Banda, what services we receive from any form of gobierno, except maybe the nice topes they're dropping all over the peninsula. And I'll bet now that the fat lady has stopped singing in SoCal, many of the "immigrants" from the north are in fact 99% returnees.

k-rico - 7-29-2008 at 06:22 AM

Decent rentals in TJ can be found for 1/2 the price of comparable apartments in San Diego. With a Sentri pass Americans can easily live there and work in the US. I doubt landlords ask for visas.

And if they don't work (unemployed/retired/lazy/drug addicted/criminals) 1/2 price housing makes it all the easier.

The result, residents who don't pay any taxes to Mexico except sales taxes on the stuff they buy in TJ. I bet most of them are Mexican-Americans who are comfortable in TJ.

CaboRon - 7-29-2008 at 06:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by k-rico
Decent rentals in TJ can be found for 1/2 the price of comparable apartments in San Diego. With a Sentri pass Americans can easily live there and work in the US. I doubt landlords ask for visas.

And if they don't work (unemployed/retired/lazy/drug addicted/criminals) 1/2 price housing makes it all the easier.

The result, residents who don't pay any taxes to Mexico except sales taxes on the stuff they buy in TJ. I bet most of them are Mexican-Americans who are comfortable in TJ.


Don't know about up north , but here in Todos Santos I get stuck with a TEN PERCENT tax on my rent. Who knows where the "H" that money goes.

None of my Mexican friends pay a "rental" tax ....

CaboRon



[Edited on 7-29-2008 by CaboRon]

MexicoGringoGuy - 7-29-2008 at 06:51 PM

Anyone in Mexico Pays Taxes on a daily basis.. 15% on anything they spend except unprepared food and a few other things!

I dont quite understand the story.. on one hand it says we are hurting things and Have no money, BUT it goes on to say that we are driving the price of rentals up.. so If we have NO money to contribute to Tijuana, How are we paying the higher rental rates?? Kinda contradicts itself!

I dont work.. I get SSDI, I am on a low income compared to alot of expats, BUT I still bring in more than the average Mexican living in TJ.. So I know although I dont pat property taxes, I pay 15% of almost my entire income every month.. Not alot, BUT I think it pays for me using the sidewalks...

I think the story is correct in saying that Wealthy Mexicans are moving North and the Less than Wealthy Americans are moving South More.. (Less than wealthy American is far from poor Mexican Standards)... BUT I don't think its hurting anything on either side because of either.

The Gull - 7-30-2008 at 06:17 AM

I will repent. I have fired my housekeeper and maintenance man as I was being a burden to the local economy. Also, I will not buy my food in Baja any longer as that food is only for Mexican locals. I will shop for all items on the US side and bring them back in economic quantities below the taxation level as I no longer want to be a burden to Governor Osuna.

My increased level of crossing the border will allow me to purchase gas on the US side and therefore leave all the Pemex product for the locals to consume.

It is likely that I will only spend my money locally at places owned by rich Americans as they take the money into the US and they don't burden the local economy as much as Mexican owned businesses.

All in all, I feel better about taking these actions as they help the economy instead of hurting it.

woody with a view - 7-30-2008 at 06:50 AM

hey gull

i think you get the BIG picture.....mexicans will never understand, tho...

rpleger - 7-30-2008 at 09:18 AM

A lot of gringos in the border area don't bother with visas...
I know some that have moved north from BCS and have given up their FMs. You might say that they illegal ..

CaboRon - 7-30-2008 at 09:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rpleger
A lot of gringos in the border area don't bother with visas...
I know some that have moved north from BCS and have given up their FMs. You might say that they illegal ..


There are gringos in many places in Mexico that do not have paperwork ....

A reason for some is that while you may collect your US Social Security out of the country ...

You may NOT collect Social Security Disability benefits outside of the US ....

Why not allow disabled, many of them veterns, to make a better life off-shore ? :cool:

CaboRon

MexicoGringoGuy - 7-30-2008 at 01:23 PM

Of course you can collect Social Security Disability Benefits outside of the US... You can have your check sent to the nearest consulate if you don’t have direct deposit! SSDI is an entitlement, and once determined disabled you can go wherever your heart desires (except a few countries like state sponsors of Terrorism, and Cuba and a few others)... as long as you are not in a restricted country, you can do as you wish!

(I should say that if you don’t qualify for SSDI and only can get SSI, then YOU CANNOT be out of the country for more than 30 days at a time... and the rules are very strict, because the amount you receive every month depends on your living arrangements, etc... And SSI is NOT an entitlement, it’s for low income people who did not pay in to the Social Security System enough or at all, who are disabled and cannot work, so it is 100% tax payer money)


Some people in Baja don’t have an FM3 because they don’t need it here... I personally have an FM-T... which is good for 6 months, so I am legally in this country... It’s just hard to get bank accounts (almost impossible) etc... BUT I have turned on all my utilities etc without one (got my Cablemas bill today)...

DENNIS - 8-1-2008 at 06:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MexicoGringoGuy
Some people in Baja don’t have an FM3 because they don’t need it here...


What? Nomad riots have been caused by lesser statements and in two days nobody here has said a word.
Actually, MGG, the same rules apply all over Mexico. The FMs are required in Baja just as they are on the mainland. It's just easier to blend in as a tourist in areas close to the border.

rpleger - 8-1-2008 at 08:46 AM

MexicoGringoGuy....

I think it's people like you that the article is about....

MexicoGringoGuy - 8-1-2008 at 09:55 AM

Well.. Some people feel that people with lesser means than them, don't have rights and opportunities as others with more means...

I disagree, I think the article might have been about people with NO money, and NO job, that come here, maybe on drugs, and cause problems for Mexico... Let me assure you that although I dont have a job.. I do receive money, and I DO NOT cause any trouble for mexico, WHAT SO EVER!

After reading more, I see nothing that says you CANNOT live in mexico on an FMT.. although still a tourist, you can have a home.. (Are you going to pay a hotel for 180 days?)
Your right, it would be better to get a FM-3, but it is not required, and I am not breaking any laws what so ever.. I have a Visa to be in this country legally..

Noone knows m enough on here to say that any article was written about me.. Just because I disagree with certain people, give noone the right to attack me and say I am a problem for mexico!

If you want to know the Gringos that drive housing cost up are the ""GRINGOS"" that walk around thining gringoish and pay gringo prices, and get taken advantage of so easily, and pay twice the amount.. Who can blame the landlords wanting to rent to idiots...!! Some gringos are such push overs, and targets that they give us all bad names... Not all of us want an Americanized life in Mexico....

The article was nto about me...:fire:

DENNIS - 8-1-2008 at 10:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MexicoGringoGuy
Well.. Some people feel that people with lesser means than them, don't have rights and opportunities as others with more means...



Well, since you're in the "Victim" mode today, you may not want to understand what I'm about to say.
Immigration laws in Mexico are loosly translated and much ignored when it comes to enforcement. They don't want to instigate feelings in the US that they are upholding the letter of the law and create a backlash of like sentiment north of the border.
That said, things change when you are on the rack at Inmigración and somebody who knows somebody wants you deported. The interpretation of your FMT rights are redefined at the moment and their logic turns to reality when they tell you, "Anybody with your property and obvious connections to the area can't and wont be considered a tourist. You're outta here." It happened to me, MGG.
So, when you think you have what it takes to tell an official in Mexico how he should interpret Mexican law, you're living in a dream which could, at any moment, turn to nightmare. You're a white ******* and you should keep that to yourself.


That seven star deletion was of a word synonamous with "damp illegal alien" I thought it was common usage.

[Edited on 8-1-2008 by DENNIS]

MexicoGringoGuy - 8-1-2008 at 10:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by MexicoGringoGuy
Well.. Some people feel that people with lesser means than them, don't have rights and opportunities as others with more means...



"Anybody with your property and obvious connections to the area can't and wont be considered a tourist. You're outta here." It happened to me, MGG.
So, when you think you have what it takes to tell an official in Mexico how he should interpret Mexican law, you're living in a dream which could, at any moment, turn to nightmare. You're a white ******* and you should keep that to yourself.




Yes Dennis, BUT I don't have property, and I don't have many ties here.. SO I am in a different situation than you I would think..... I just moved here, and I amnot sure I will stay forever ... IF I decide to move into a more permant residence (a bigger one) and stay here, and start collecting,etc etc.. then a FM-3 would be the best...

As with any Mexican Law its enforced by the official standing in front of you... I know this.. BUT I have done nothing to noone to have immigration called on me, and I am a little fly for immigration to try to get rid of me.. SO I don't plan on answering to any official... If I have to I just have to.. I will cross that bridge....

I have discussed before about getting my fm-3 and would, but i run into a few hitches...


Only responding as a victim because I was told the story is about people like me

DENNIS - 8-1-2008 at 12:03 PM

I've been told at immigration, "No." But who really knows.

There is a bill being considered

Bajajack - 8-1-2008 at 12:15 PM

in the mexican congress or whatever it is they use to pass laws that will change the FMT.

The new FMT will still give 6 months and multiple entries but users will be limited to 30 days at a time and will have to exit and re-enter to stay legal.

Supposedly this is to discourage Permanent Residents from abusing the system.

Don't ask for a link as I saw it a couple of weeks ago and now cant find it.

vandenberg - 8-1-2008 at 12:24 PM

Makes sense.
In general the immigration folks will direct you to your FM3 and then try to keep you from advancing to FM2 status, followed by inmigrado status, since at the latter stage, their cash cow expires.

bancoduo - 8-1-2008 at 12:47 PM

Quote:
mexicogringoguy

Noone knows m enough on here to say that any article was written about me.. Just because I disagree with certain people, give noone the right to attack me and say I am a problem for mexico!



The article was nto about me...:fire:
who is Noone:?:

vandenberg - 8-1-2008 at 12:55 PM

Quote:
Quote:
:
who is Noone:?:


The misspelled "midday cowboy":P

DENNIS - 8-1-2008 at 12:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajajack
The new FMT will still give 6 months and multiple entries


In the past, there was a multiple entry FMT but it wasn't monitored. One could come and go at will. I remember that they charged a couple of bucks extra for that one. The regular FMT was three dollars.

sanluquëna - 8-2-2008 at 09:39 AM

This article says that 6,036 Americans live in Tijuana with immigration papers and that the Mexican immigration deports about 445 foreigners from Baja each year.

http://senderodelpeje.com/sdp/contenido/2008/08/01/11692

DENNIS - 8-2-2008 at 10:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by sanluquëna
This article says that 6,036 Americans live in Tijuana with immigration papers and that the Mexican immigration deports about 445 foreigners from Baja each year.



Makes you wonder how many Americans total live in Tijuana. Far more than 6 thousand, I'm sure.

445 is nothing. The number gets smaller when you consider the deportees are from many countrys....China..Central America...Los Angeles....

Welcome to BajaNomad, sanluquena

MexicoGringoGuy - 8-2-2008 at 11:34 AM

It is a very limited article.. and doesnt give specifics.

As far as I know, the legislature has NOT passed any law limiting the length of a FMT... it is still UP TO 180 days, at the Agents descresion. And you can go over and renew.. Its just the way it is .. very simple.. Not sure why some of you are hell bent on saying Using a 180 day tourist visa is illegal.. Why would they make it for 180 days??

And I am not sure if you can Renew it.. BUT whenyou leave you gove it up... cross the border, THEN return and get a new one.. (I have never received on here.. My last on was received as the Acapulco airport) so I am not sure how they do it here..

Tony

DENNIS - 8-2-2008 at 12:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MexicoGringoGuy
Not sure why some of you are hell bent on saying Using a 180 day tourist visa is illegal..


It isn't illegal for tourists, Tony. Are you a tourist? Does having an FMT make you a tourist? To refer to yourself, one who resides in Tijuana, as a tourist just because you have a tourist document is plain disingenuous. You can tell yourself that since it makes sense to you, it should make sense to the world but, I wouldn't bet the farm on that.
Don't worry...you arn't alone in this dilusion. There are many others.

MexicoGringoGuy - 8-2-2008 at 12:15 PM

Yes Dennis.. BUT who stays in a HOTEL for 6 months?? on a 180 day FM-T?? Why do they gove 180 days? Do people actually pay $50.00 + a day for 180 days as a tourist , lets see thats $9,000.00 PLUS... Well I guess some can, but most can't .. or won't!

I see your point.. and I think its kinda a fine line that many of us are straddling.. BUT I don't think all people who have a apt or home here in tj on an FM-T are illegal...

I have a few good friends that have 1 year NON RESIDENT visa for the US... .. Why do they need a Year to be a tourist?

I will research all this more and report back... I can try and use my Vanderbilt education even if I am disabled now!

bancoduo - 8-2-2008 at 12:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MexicoGringoGuy


I will research all this more and report back... I can try and use my Vanderbilt education even if I am disabled now!
What has one thing have to do with the other?

Getting back to subject.
Years ago, there were thousands of us living on the mainland with 6mo visas returning to the US every 6mo's for renewal. NO PROBLEMA! We could all own property outright within the boundaries that still exist today. All went well until the US educated technocrats took over. SORRY, just reminiscing about the good Ole days.:lol:

[Edited on 8-2-2008 by bancoduo]

MexicoGringoGuy - 8-2-2008 at 11:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bancoduo
Quote:
Originally posted by MexicoGringoGuy


I will research all this more and report back... I can try and use my Vanderbilt education even if I am disabled now!
What has one thing have to do with the other?


[Edited on 8-2-2008 by bancoduo]


Just trying to be funny.. Saying that I could try to do something , even if as simple as doing a little research.. I spent all that time and money, and now I do nothing...

Anyway.. Just kinda jabbing myself I guess!