BajaNomad - Gringo guns for TJ- how sick is this???

Gringo guns for TJ- how sick is this???

thebajarunner - 8-10-2008 at 04:04 PM

MEXICO UNDER SIEGE
U.S. guns arm Mexican drug cartels
Licensed weapons dealers are abundant near the border. 'Straw buyers' assist the traffickers.
By Richard A. Serrano
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

August 10, 2008

SIERRA VISTA, ARIZ. — High-powered automatic weapons and ammunition are flowing virtually unchecked from border states into Mexico, fueling a war among drug traffickers, the army and police that has left thousands dead, according to U.S. and Mexican officials.

The munitions are hidden under trucks and stashed in the trunks of cars, or concealed under the clothing of people who brazenly walk across the international bridges. They are showing up in seizures and in the aftermath of shootouts between the cartels and police in Mexico.

More than 90% of guns seized at the border or after raids and shootings in Mexico have been traced to the United States, according to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Last year, 2,455 weapons traces requested by Mexico showed that guns had been purchased in the United States, according to the ATF. Texas, Arizona and California accounted for 1,805 of those traced weapons.

No one is sure how many U.S.-purchased guns have made their way into Mexico, but U.S. authorities estimate the number in the thousands.

The body count, meanwhile, is rising. Since a military-led crackdown on narcotics traffickers began 18 months ago, more than 4,000 people in Mexico have died in drug-related violence, including 450 police officers, soldiers and prosecutors, as well as innocent bystanders, cartel members and corrupt officials, according to Mexican authorities.

Tom Mangan, a senior ATF special agent in Arizona, compared the flow to reverse osmosis. "Just like the drugs that head north," firearms move south, he said. "The cartels are outfitting an army."

More than 6,700 licensed gun dealers have set up shop within a short drive of the 2,000-mile border, from the Gulf Coast of Texas to San Diego -- which amounts to more than three dealers for every mile of border territory. Law enforcement has come to call the region an "iron river of guns."

And while U.S. political leaders and presidential candidates have focused rhetoric, money and time on stemming the northward flow of drugs and illegal immigrants, far less has been said and done about arms flowing south, largely from states with liberal gun laws, into a nation where only police and the military can legally own a firearm.

Mexican authorities have been pressing the United States to do more to help a border force they describe as overwhelmed and often intimidated.

"Just guarantee me that arms won't enter Mexico," Mexico's public-safety chief, Genaro Garcia Luna, told a radio interviewer recently. Stop the flow of guns from the United States, he said, "and the gasoline for the crimes that we have will run out."

'Straw buyers'

Both sides blame "straw buyers" who purchase weapons for traffickers at small gun shops and large gun shows.

Adan Rodriguez, 35, a struggling carpet-layer from the Dallas area, told gun dealers he was a private security officer and bought more than 100 assault rifles, 9-mm handguns and other high-powered weapons at multiple shops over several months, according to court records.

But authorities say drug traffickers were giving him stacks of cash to buy the guns, with marijuana laced in between the bills. He earned $30 to $40 a gun, according to court records.

"The temptation got over me," Rodriguez told a federal judge in Dallas, who sentenced him in 2006 to 5 1/2 years in prison.

Last August, U.S. Customs and Border Patrol agents in Roma, Texas, came upon a 1999 Freightliner tractor-trailer with a hidden stash of weapons, including a rifle, four shotguns, a handgun and 8,024 rounds of live ammunition with 10 magazines. The driver was questioned, and that investigation continues.

In February, five men, including a father and his two sons, were arrested just outside Roma and charged with selling as many as 60 guns, silencers and other weapons. The serial numbers on some of the weapons were shaved off, government evidence shows -- a sign to agents that the firearms were destined for Mexican gangs.

More recently, the ATF seized 13 AK-47 rifles Aug. 1 from an alleged straw purchaser in Phoenix, according to Mangan. The guns were to be delivered to the Tijuana cartel via Southern California, Mangan said.

Despite the arrests, smugglers appear to have the upper hand, U.S. and Mexican law enforcement sources say. Just 100 U.S. firearms agents and 35 inspectors patrol the vast border region for gun smugglers, compared with 16,000 Border Patrol agents, most of them working the Southwest border.

Elias Bazan, a supervisory agent with the ATF in Laredo, Texas, has a staff of just six agents at one of the grittiest stretches along the Rio Grande.

"I don't have an analyst," he said. "I don't have an administrative assistant. I don't have an inspector. One major case can soak up my entire office. And we have major cases all the time."

Gun dealers also far outnumber agents. Here in tiny Sierra Vista, on a rise high enough to afford a view into Mexico, half a dozen dealers operate in stores along the town's main thoroughfare, and they also sell and trade arms out of their homes.

Arizona is a wide-open state for gun lovers: A license lets you carry a gun openly on the street or concealed.

Saguaro Firearms is a small, crowded shop on East Fry Boulevard, a strip of fast-food restaurants and mini-malls. Across the street is Guns & Gear. Anyone with proper ID and a brief background check can leave with a firearm under his or her belt and reach Mexico in minutes.

The manager at Saguaro Firearms, who gave his name only as Greg, carries a "comfortable to shoot" silver Kahr P40 in a black holster on his right hip.

"I don't believe all the hype" about all the guns getting into Mexico, he said, knifing open new boxes of ammunition.

He said that toll bridges, a fence and more border cops would not stop immigrants from flowing north or guns from flowing south. "Build a tower with an armed guard every 100 yards," he suggested. "Maybe then."

Washington and Mexico City are pledging cooperation to halt the weapons flow, but each capital wants more from the other. Washington is urging Mexican officials to be more vigilant at the border, and to thoroughly inspect and arrest crossers who carry weapons from the United States. Warning signs have been posted at the border, but few people pay heed.

William Hoover, the ATF's assistant director for field operations, told Congress that his agency is working with Mexican law enforcement officials on an "eTrace" system to track guns found in Mexico. The process allows the United States to start criminal investigations against anyone in the country who has sent a weapon to Mexico.

Mexico wants the United States to tighten gun laws in border states. They also want more checks on "straw man" purchasers like Rodriguez.

Key arrests

Since weapons began heading south in bulk three to five years ago, U.S. agents have made some key arrests. Unfortunately, many of them came after the weapons had been used in cartel warfare in Mexico.

This spring the ATF arrested a dealer and two others from the X-Caliber Guns store in Phoenix, which allegedly dispatched hundreds of AK-47s and other long guns and pistols to Mexico. The shop has since shut down; the three have pleaded not guilty.

ATF intelligence has shown that some of the firearms sold from X-Caliber were used by cartel gunmen against Mexican police and the Mexican army.

Six guns were traced to alleged members of the Sinaloa Cartel, who were rounded up shortly after Mexican police captured alleged drug lord Joaquin "Shorty" Guzman in May. An assault rifle traced to X-Caliber also turned up in a cache found after eight federal policemen were killed and three others wounded in a gun battle in Culiacan, according to the ATF.

Gun shows have become particularly troublesome. There, traffickers have their pick of weapons: AK-47s, AR-15s and the FN 5.57-caliber pistol known as "asesino de policia," or "cop killer."

"You see the Sinaloan cowboys come in," said Mangan, who browses the shows. "You see them with their ammunition belts and their ammunition boots. You can see the dollies being rolled outside to their cars.

"Why do they need the high-powered guns? Because the Mexican military is armed too, and they need to pierce that armor."

Sometimes it's the ammunition that tips agents off. In November 2006, an agent in street clothes was talking to a dealer at Kirkpatrick's Guns & Ammo, less than a mile from the border in Laredo, Texas. He spotted two men repackaging more than 12,000 rounds of ammunition they had just purchased.

An investigation later led to the arrest of Carlos Alberto Osorio-Castrejon and Ramon Uresti-Careaga, both Mexican citizens in the United States illegally.

Osorio pleaded guilty to being an illegal immigrant in possession of ammunition and was given 10 months in prison. Uresti was found guilty by a jury and sentenced to 15 months in prison.

The ammunition, the judge told Uresti and the court, "was going to somebody in Mexico involved in some illegal activity -- drug trafficking, alien smuggling perhaps. Or something else."

Just up the road from Kirkpatrick's, past the taquerias and the Mexican insurance offices, there is yet another gun shop.

"Call me Rocky," said the man who runs Border Sporting Goods. He advertises "What We Don't Have, We Can Get." He sells guns and ammunition and reloading and hunting equipment. He personally owns more than 100 firearms.

He blamed Mexico for the gun trafficking. "It is not doing enough to stop it," he said. "They are a crooked country." He said U.S. gun laws were too easily broken. "A crook could care less how many laws you have."

He maintained that most gun dealers were honest and vigilant and report suspicious activity. And he called it unfair to make gun stores responsible for what their customers do: "That's like holding a car manufacturer liable for traffic accidents."

The dealers here in Sierra Vista said they reported any customer they did not feel comfortable about.

Mike Benton runs Guns & Gear, which is easy to find on East Fry Boulevard; a U.S. flag out front marks the spot. He said two men claiming to be American citizens recently purchased four or five long guns.

"They had the necessary documents, and an instant FBI check was approved," Benton said. Still, he thought it unusual and notified authorities. "I never heard back," he said.

Shop owners heard back when they called about Adan Rodriguez. At 335 pounds, Rodriguez was easy to remember after he started showing up at shops in Mesquite, Texas, outside Dallas.

Over a series of months, Rodriguez purchased 112 assault-class rifles, 9-mm Beretta pistols, revolvers and high- caliber rifles, court records show.

The dealers alerted the ATF's Dallas office, and Tom Crowley, a special agent there, said that an undercover officer and hidden video camera were planted.

Seduced by money

Arrested, Rodriguez complained that he was making just $1,400 a month laying carpet and had lost his job. He said that his mother was disabled and that he had hoped to marry soon.

Then a friend of a friend introduced him to "Kati" and "Cesar," and they convinced him to do a little side work for some Mexican clients.

Kati and Cesar provided Rodriguez with cash amounts of up to $12,000, often in thousand-dollar stacks. Sometimes they sent an older Latino man, "Jefe," ("Boss") to deliver the money for guns.

When he bought the weapons, he took them to safe houses in Dallas.

At the time of his arrest, Rodriguez told the agents, he was being pushed to buy hand grenades and a rocket launcher too.

One of the Berettas was used in a shootout in Reynosa, Mexico, that left a cartel member dead and injured two Mexican federal agents.

In a handwritten letter to The Times from his prison cell in Seagoville, Texas, Rodriguez described how he got in deeper and deeper with the cartels.

"It started out by selling one of my personal guns, and things went on [from] there," he said. "It was an easy way to make some money."

Rodriguez hesitated to write more: "I worry about my safety and my family's safety."

The cartels, as he knows, are well-armed.

Woooosh - 8-10-2008 at 04:11 PM

"No one is sure how many U.S.-purchased guns have made their way into Mexico, but U.S. authorities estimate the number in the thousands."

thousands and one- they didn't count mine.

Mexico shouldn't point any blame at the USA until it starts inspecting people and vehicles at the points of entry. They are consisitent, if nothing else- in their misplacement of blame. They do 0% of the work and pass 100% of the blame.

[Edited on 8-10-2008 by Woooosh]

BajaGringo - 8-10-2008 at 04:14 PM

Woooosh, if I use your logic then it is okay to blame the USA for the drug trafficking going NOB as the USA does not inspect and monitor the entire border???

Not trying to start a fight, just curious?

[Edited on 8-10-2008 by BajaGringo]

loki - 8-10-2008 at 04:33 PM

The USA does everything in its power to stop the drugs from landing in the USA.
Tell me why Mexico does not even take a quick peak at even half the cars that enter at TJ.
I would guess it has to do with the wink,wink,nod,nod attitude of Mexican customs and the government as a whole when it comes to smuggling in special items and other things back into Mexico.
Lets be honest here. The Mexicans could stop most of what they complain about in days if they wanted .

Woooosh - 8-10-2008 at 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
Woooosh, if I use your logic then it is okay to blame the USA for the drug trafficking going NOB as the USA does not inspect and monitor the entire border???

Not trying to start a fight, just curious?

[Edited on 8-10-2008 by BajaGringo]

They have to start somewhere in inspections. Matching what we do and where we do it would be a start. They have plenty of military to watch the border if that was important to them. It's not. It's just a diversion from the real problem- the lack of ability to control this mess from within- so they blame the USA first while they are hiding for cover.

I don't blame Mexico for not stopping any northbound drug traffic. They don't try to stop human trafficing either. If the USA doesn't have the ability to find cross-border tunnel's big enough to drive through how could the Mexicans. The difference for me is that no one is blaming drug addiction in the USA on Mexico for their inability to stop the drugs before they hit the USA. Instead they blame the USA for being consumers. They spin it both ways.

BajaGringo - 8-10-2008 at 04:38 PM

I agree with some of your points - its just that I believe that the "blame" falls on both sides of the border. The problem is that one side of the border has a lot more resources in terms of $$$ and law/military enforcement support to make that happen.

Just wish there was an easy answer. The reality is that there is not...

Cypress - 8-10-2008 at 04:46 PM

The most powerful country in the world can't control it's borders?

Come on, are we really dumb enough to buy into that BS?

Udo - 8-10-2008 at 05:14 PM

Hey...
I didn't vote for king George. He like protecting the borders in other countries more than ours. :?:

If the rich and powerfull

Bajajack - 8-10-2008 at 05:27 PM

would stop trying to keep the average peon in his place with the mexicos gun laws they have then maybe they wouldn't be streaming over the border to buys guns.

k-rico - 8-10-2008 at 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by loki
The USA does everything in its power to stop the drugs from landing in the USA.
Tell me why Mexico does not even take a quick peak at even half the cars that enter at TJ.
I would guess it has to do with the wink,wink,nod,nod attitude of Mexican customs and the government as a whole when it comes to smuggling in special items and other things back into Mexico.
Lets be honest here. The Mexicans could stop most of what they complain about in days if they wanted .

The volume of traffic pouring south through the border in the afternoon at rush hour would require a massive reconstruction effort to increase the number of lanes, otherwise stopping even 1/2 of the cars to look inside would create a huge traffic backup. How many southbound gates are there now? 6 or so? And even if they did that, how many 100s of miles of open border are there?

So I doubt the Mexicans could EVER stop the flow of guns from the United States, let alone do it in days. Come on.....

Drugs flow north to the buyers, guns and money flow south. It's impossible to stop.

When did Nixon start the war on drugs? 40 years ago?

Skeet/Loreto - 8-10-2008 at 05:57 PM

IF ROBERTA HAD HAD BALLS WE WOULD HAVE CALLED HER UNCLE ROBERT!

IF THERE WAS NO DEMAND, THERE WOULD BE NO SUPPLY!

To place Blame on the President or the Rich and Powerful is a Copout or lack of Ability to Think are Act.

Fix the Problem:

All DOPE Addicts into Concentration Camps in Arizona
Shoot All DOPE Dealers
Shoot all Gun Dealers selling Guns to Mexicanos
Problem Solved!

I gotta wonder Skeet

Bajajack - 8-10-2008 at 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
IF ROBERTA HAD HAD BALLS WE WOULD HAVE CALLED HER UNCLE ROBERT!

IF THERE WAS NO DEMAND, THERE WOULD BE NO SUPPLY!

To place Blame on the President or the Rich and Powerful is a Copout or lack of Ability to Think are Act.

Fix the Problem:

All DOPE Addicts into Concentration Camps in Arizona
Shoot All DOPE Dealers
Shoot all Gun Dealers selling Guns to Mexicanos
Problem Solved!

do you really know where you're coming from, just asking???

loki - 8-10-2008 at 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico

Quote:

The lineups would extend 10 miles up I-5 and so what if the Mexicans really cared about the problem. The lines extend to the south now because the US is concerned about their inspections.
The Mexicans have the resources in manpower to deal with it and could beg for more money from the US as they always do if they needed more lanes built.
It will not happen because of the layered corruption that starts at the top of the Mexican government and ends with its customs enforcement officers.

k-rico - 8-10-2008 at 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by loki

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico

Quote:

Oh I see, it's the corruption problem that's the cause of guns getting into Mexico. Yeah, sure.

So what about the idea that if they inspected every car at San Ysidro the smuggling would just move to the mountains and deserts. Perhaps airplanes, via mail order.

If the U.S., the most powerful country in the world with many fighting for truth, justice, and the American way, can't stop contraband moving north, how are the Mexicans (citizens of a 3rd world country as you claim) ever going to stop it moving south?

Most illogical of you.

loki - 8-10-2008 at 06:32 PM

Who said anything about stopping it. You can not stop it but you can try if you have the political will to do so.
The corruption is a what stops anything from ever getting done in Mexico.
From the cops who demand bribes to all levels of mexican politics. Its the one thing that makes Mexico a failed state and that is not even debated anymore.
We are getting close to that line in the sand that tells us Mexico can not even protect its citizens anymore.
The Mexicans have no problem stretching out their armed forces across the southern border to keep the undesirables out but have no appetite to patrol the northern border.
Do the math.

[Edited on 8-11-2008 by loki]

The only way that mexico

Bajajack - 8-10-2008 at 06:58 PM

will ever get straightened out is if the US Military steps in and starts controlling the other side of the border.

And that may happen sooner than anyone expects.

Since I started this thread....

thebajarunner - 8-10-2008 at 07:21 PM

My turn,

Simple observation.

Isn't it interesting that, northbound, they can stop us, inspect us, go through our vehicles with great interest, many times starting just south of Maneadero....

but, they don't ever seem to stop the southbound, at the border, or anywhere else for that matter,

just a simple observation...

BajaGringo - 8-10-2008 at 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thebajarunner
but, they don't ever seem to stop the southbound, at the border, or anywhere else for that matter

Actually, that is not true. I have seen many military and police stops heading out of Tijuana for points south and east where cars are stopped, screened and some pulled aside to be searched.

I wish they did it every day...

Don Alley - 8-10-2008 at 09:47 PM

So, why was Grover's post deleted?

http://www.dunwalke.com/introduction.htm

http://www.solari.com/about-us/resume/

[Edited on 8-11-2008 by Don Alley]

OK, thanks Grover.

[Edited on 8-11-2008 by Don Alley]

Southbound stops

thebajarunner - 8-10-2008 at 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo

Quote:

Originally posted by thebajarunner
but, they don't ever seem to stop the southbound, at the border, or anywhere else for that matter

I have been stopped exactly once, Southbound,

they took our oranges.....

(very dangerous, those Central California oranges- much more lethal than .38 or .44 Magnums)

gnukid - 8-10-2008 at 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajajack
will ever get straightened out is if the US Military steps in and starts controlling the other side of the border.

And that may happen sooner than anyone expects.

I hope you can elaborate.

What makes anyone else here believe that the corruption, the crime on both side of the borders, the drugs, gun sales, the involvement of the military, the government, the corrupt criminals in office all the way to the top are not completely in control of the current state of affairs and are orchestrating this scenario toward the eventual goal of a militarized union. What possibly makes you think this is happening in a vacuum? This is the plan, disruption, instill fear, make people turn on each other, demand military takeover, create confusion and chaos, then provide order. From Chaos Bring Order. This is their mantra. It can be stopped through direct citizen involvement, stand up, speak out, organize together, end criminal militarization of North America.

Skeet/Loreto - 8-11-2008 at 03:58 AM

BajaJack:
Wonder about Ole Skeet?

I was trying to make a Point about "Action instead of Words"!

For everyone: When the People of Baja get Fed up they will do something about the Proble,

Exampleof the Past; At the Building of the New Presidente at Nopollo, there was a need for water for the Proposed GolF Course, that water to be taken from the One and only Well furnishing Water to the City of Loreto;

Nothing was being done, so Lo and Behold the People of Loreto went out in Mass and closed the Road from TJ to La Paz. In about 48 Hours the Presidente of Baja Sur came to Loreto and promised Water for Loreto which included the Drilling of 9 new Wells in the Mountains.

Same thing happened just South of Enseneda when the Workers camped out on the Streets for many Months finally forcing theGovt. to Build the Colonia just North of the Inspection Point at Manadero.

Point: When and If the People of Baja and The States get fed up with the Drugs and Guns ,change will happen! Not the blaming of one Group, The Govt, or the Rich and Powerful.

Anon The Preacher

CaboRon - 8-11-2008 at 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajajack

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto

Fix the Problem:

All DOPE Addicts into Concentration Camps in Arizona
Shoot All DOPE Dealers
Shoot all Gun Dealers selling Guns to Mexicanos
Problem Solved!

do you really know where you're coming from, just asking???

I think all old twisted , bitter, preachers should be shot.

The judgemental minds (clothed in the cloth) have left millions dead in the name of their god over the last two thousand years.

Prety sick attitude for someone who calls themselves a preacher.

CaboRon

[Edited on 8-11-2008 by CaboRon]

vgabndo - 8-11-2008 at 09:45 AM

Nope, that won't work Ron...remember...Thou shalt not kill.

Oh wait, that's just for preachers and other true believers.

Isn't it?

Gun control means controlling the guns. If crooked dealers can't get 'em they can't sell 'em. Remember, it was the poster boy for lack of ethics, Tom Delay who insured that the assault weapons ban was NOT continued. Yes it WAS the Republicans who insured that there would be free and easy traffic in combat weapons in the USA. When was the last time you heard of an international smuggler or a gang banger taking someone out with a shot gun or a deer rifle?

For some reason I cannot fathom, the "right" found a benefit from keeping the traffic in assault weapons legal.

One of those things that makes you go: Hmmmmmmmm :?:

Mexico Whines

MrBillM - 8-11-2008 at 09:52 AM

It is Mexico's responsibility to control their own borders. PERIOD.

For whatever reasons, they have proven hopelessly inept at doing so.

Skeet/Loreto - 8-11-2008 at 11:01 AM

Old Bitter, twisted,
How about a Challenge CaboRon?

First Can you fly an Airplane? I can and just got my current Medical. Let you and I go Flying, I will furnish the Airplane, you furnish the Fuel. I know several Strips that you and I can go into for some good Fishing and Fun.
First will be Pt. Pulpito 1200 Feet{after the rocks are cleared!

Ready to go??

ASecond, let us go to Bishop Calif, I have a friend with a TG 2 Glider that takes two Peop[le, I will Buy, all you have to do is ride in the right Seat.

Next, Let you and I enter the Contest at sweetwater Texas at the Largest Rattlesnake Roundup in the World!, I will bet you $1,000 Cash that I can take more Rattlers than you in any given 12 Hour Period!!

Talk or Act???

Anon The Preacher

gnukid - 8-11-2008 at 05:31 PM

Both Mike Ruppert and Catherine Austin Fitts suffered greatly for their excellent "map" showing the reality. But as they point out that, their gift is the "map", it is the tool that shows these "brands" for who they are and by understanding the clear, well documented truth we can easily avoid investing in it and fueling its carnage, from which we suffer. We can simply opt out from investing in them and end their destructive reign over our lives.

Each of us should pay very close attention to these two well done projects. They are highly relevant gifts to society by these two angels. Neither has been shown be in error in their documents by anyone anywhere nor any government agency. In fact many people have offered rewards to anyone who can disprove their facts and no one has! And they clearly demonstrate who has the motive, who benefits, who has the ability to manage the drug, arms, money laundering trade, and then they prove it in their documentation. I cried, honestly while reading each of their documentation and it changed my life for the better. Please follow the links and read the documents from beginning to end and memorize the facts and circumstance. Doing so will bring a truth to power toward peace in our community.

Woooosh - 8-11-2008 at 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by loki
The Mexicans have no problem stretching out their armed forces across the southern border to keep the undesirables out but have no appetite to patrol the northern border.
Do the math.

That's a very strong point I don't hear often enough. The Mexican Army is infamous for abusing illegals on their southern border. You'd think patroling the northern border would be very profitable for them- using their current business model.