BajaNomad

“What part of illegal do you not understand"

conquestkm - 8-18-2008 at 12:56 PM

Rightfully, a lot of Mexicans are asking of Americans, "What part of
illegal do you not understand?" And, "We thought you said, the US is
a nation of laws." The reference is to illicit drug usage by so many
millions of Americans buying and using an estimated $150 billion
annually. And, this is the money Mexican drug lords use to finance
buying guns from American gun dealers, killing soldiers, police
officers, prosecutors, journalists and innocent by standards for
being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

We have to admit, there is some heavy hypocrisy going on. We are
quick to condemn gardeners, dishwashers, fruit pickers, vegetable
harvesters, meat cutters, hotel maids, janitors who make up the
majority of those who enter the US illegally, but nary a word about
the killings going on in Mexico in an attempt to keep drugs out of
the US and away from America's youths. Not a word.

Instead what we do hear is, "The corrupt Mexican government is
responsible and protects the drug barons." On its face this is about
as ridiculous a statement as any of the many made by would
be "patriots," the Lou Dobbs of the air waves, and some of the most
extreme rights in politics, and let us not forget, a huge number of
wannabe famous reporters who have found a new target for
sensationalism in their writings.

I suggest the above statement is ridiculous because it flies against
facts. Mexico leads the world in marijuana eradication (the US is
second), and has seized far more cocaine and other types barbiturates
than the US and most other countries. And Mexico has lost more law
enforcement and military personnel than the U.S. In fact, Mexico's
war against drugs deaths rivals those of the US military losses in
Iraq. They are paying a hefty price to help the US young.

How do we repay this? Accuse them of corruption, and allow the US
press to have a field day at Mexico's expense. Cub or non-seasoned
reporters, many not even bothering to go to Mexico will sit behind
their computer screen, Google "Mexican drug wars" and from there
either copy/paste make a few changes here and there, and out goes the
story.

The more responsible newspapers do have their reporters "call"
authorities in the field to obtain quotes that will support the story
already in progress. A few venture into Mexico, but not many. In the
end, the story has mistakes, misconceptions and most will rehash old
news mingled in with the new so as to give the appearance that some
events of months or even years ago are part of the new events.

What all articles have in common is that none touch on the root of
the problem. One, a USA Today article did bring out drug usage, but
not in the US, in Mexico. It did say that since Mexican authorities
working closely with US law enforcement have stopped quite a bit of
the smuggling, some drugs were staying in Mexico and traffickers were
developing a market. But the US market is still a 30 to 1 in dollar
value.

Why does the US press ignore the danger of drugs to our young? Is it
because so many of the reporters, or in the industry are themselves
users of such "socially accepted" drugs like marijuana and cocaine
that they are not in agreement with Federal, states' and local laws
prohibiting their use?

The "nation of laws" has become so unashamed on drug usage that an
organization such as Marijuana Policy Project (MPP) sends press
releases to the news media condemning the annual Campaign Against
Marijuana Planting.

"Record setting busts each year have done nothing to reduce the
marijuana supply or keep marijuana out of the hands of kids, but they
have succeeded brilliantly in driving the growers to more dangerous
locations, putting national parks and residential communities at
risk," said Bruce Mirken, the MPP director of communications.

The MPP makes no bones about their disdain for laws prohibiting
cultivation of marijuana or apparently getting it into the hands of
kids, they want to legalize and regulate marijuana similarly to the
liquor industry.

But the point is – it's against the law as of now. People are being
killed trying to stop this illegal activity. Illicit drug users are
as guilty in the killings taking place as are the drug gangster
pulling the trigger.

So what part of it's illegal is not understood?

rpleger - 8-18-2008 at 01:58 PM

Yes, I read this this morning...They a point...A good point.

Iflyfish - 8-18-2008 at 02:13 PM

Legalization and taxation coupled with public education is the only way out of this crazy whack a mole game. Rep. Barney Frank, Mass. has submitted legistlation toward that end last term and will do so again this coming term.

Look to the history of Prohibition and to the reduction of tobacco use as models for how to and not to address issues of this nature.

Iflyfish

Woooosh - 8-18-2008 at 02:13 PM

Geesh. Mexico is so good at playing the victim- that it actually believes what it says these days. It's the media. It's the addicts.

Mexico tries to get it both ways- north and south. It brutally stops human immigration (but not the flow of drugs apparently) on their heavily armed and manned southern border- yet turns a blind eye to all that is smuggled (both ways) across their northern border.

Mexico could find the politcal will to help the USA build a complete northen border fence, we'll man it on both sides and starve the drug dealers out. Mexico will show a consistent will to protect and defend itself from intruders north and south. After Mexico does that, it can point fingers elsewhere IMHO.

k-rico - 8-18-2008 at 03:51 PM

It is an excellent point and an important part of the drug trade that Americans don't mention much. Americans are supplying the demand and breaking their own laws doing so.

I heard on PBS today that an estimate of annual federal tax revenue from legalized mota is $31 billion.

California is now pulling in $100 million per year in taxes from medical pot sales. Far out!

This is heavy


[Edited on 8-18-2008 by k-rico]

TonyC - 8-18-2008 at 04:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by k-rico

California is now pulling in $100 million per year in taxes from medical pot sales. Far out!

This is heavy

[Edited on 8-18-2008 by k-rico]


If the Feds get their way, not for long. Making it legal makes to much common sense.

House fire, pot grower
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=T4Z4mjBjW3E&feature=relate...

Woooosh - 8-18-2008 at 05:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by k-rico
It is an excellent point and an important part of the drug trade that Americans don't mention much. Americans are supplying the demand and breaking their own laws doing so.

I heard on PBS today that an estimate of annual federal tax revenue from legalized mota is $31 billion.

California is now pulling in $100 million per year in taxes from medical pot sales. Far out!

This is heavy


[Edited on 8-18-2008 by k-rico]


Wow, even PBS says that now? $31 Billion a year could cover all Americans for complete health care- including drug addiction treatment cities. :rolleyes:

Entering a country illegally (misdemeanor)and using a false SS identificaton number to seek work (felony) holds the same weight with you as getting a "parking ticket" for smoking pot? It's "Illegal is illegal" and it's that black and white for everything in your world? Hope you're not a catholic.

As has been posted here- the retail cost of a gram of powder cocaine is down to about $33. What does that number mean? Cocaine and other hard drugs will never and should never be legalized and anyone who watches "Weeds" knows that the best pot is homegrown USA from upscale neighborhood grow houses.

Leaglize and tax it like the "Amsterdam" approach to limited legalizaton. After decades- The Dutch historical data shows that just because drugs are readily and legally available- doesn't mean more people will use them- let alone become addicted to them (Same went for young people and sex/ legalized prostitution).

[Edited on 8-19-2008 by Woooosh]

Who is the author of this piece?

jeans - 8-18-2008 at 05:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by conquestkm
Rightfully, a lot of Mexicans are asking of Americans, "What part of
illegal do you not understand?" And, "We thought you said, the US is
a nation of laws." The reference is to illicit drug usage by so many
millions of Americans buying and using an estimated $150 billion
annually. And, this is the money Mexican drug lords use to finance
buying guns from American gun dealers, killing soldiers, police
officers, prosecutors, journalists and innocent by standards for
being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

We have to admit, there is some heavy hypocrisy going on. We are
quick to condemn gardeners, dishwashers, fruit pickers, vegetable
harvesters, meat cutters, hotel maids, janitors who make up the
majority of those who enter the US illegally, but nary a word about
the killings going on in Mexico in an attempt to keep drugs out of
the US and away from America's youths. Not a word.

Instead what we do hear is, "The corrupt Mexican government is
responsible and protects the drug barons." On its face this is about
as ridiculous a statement as any of the many made by would
be "patriots," the Lou Dobbs of the air waves, and some of the most
extreme rights in politics, and let us not forget, a huge number of
wannabe famous reporters who have found a new target for
sensationalism in their writings.

I suggest the above statement is ridiculous because it flies against
facts. Mexico leads the world in marijuana eradication (the US is
second), and has seized far more cocaine and other types barbiturates
than the US and most other countries. And Mexico has lost more law
enforcement and military personnel than the U.S. In fact, Mexico's
war against drugs deaths rivals those of the US military losses in
Iraq. They are paying a hefty price to help the US young.

How do we repay this? Accuse them of corruption, and allow the US
press to have a field day at Mexico's expense. Cub or non-seasoned
reporters, many not even bothering to go to Mexico will sit behind
their computer screen, Google "Mexican drug wars" and from there
either copy/paste make a few changes here and there, and out goes the
story.

The more responsible newspapers do have their reporters "call"
authorities in the field to obtain quotes that will support the story
already in progress. A few venture into Mexico, but not many. In the
end, the story has mistakes, misconceptions and most will rehash old
news mingled in with the new so as to give the appearance that some
events of months or even years ago are part of the new events.

What all articles have in common is that none touch on the root of
the problem. One, a USA Today article did bring out drug usage, but
not in the US, in Mexico. It did say that since Mexican authorities
working closely with US law enforcement have stopped quite a bit of
the smuggling, some drugs were staying in Mexico and traffickers were
developing a market. But the US market is still a 30 to 1 in dollar
value.

Why does the US press ignore the danger of drugs to our young? Is it
because so many of the reporters, or in the industry are themselves
users of such "socially accepted" drugs like marijuana and cocaine
that they are not in agreement with Federal, states' and local laws
prohibiting their use?

The "nation of laws" has become so unashamed on drug usage that an
organization such as Marijuana Policy Project (MPP) sends press
releases to the news media condemning the annual Campaign Against
Marijuana Planting.

"Record setting busts each year have done nothing to reduce the
marijuana supply or keep marijuana out of the hands of kids, but they
have succeeded brilliantly in driving the growers to more dangerous
locations, putting national parks and residential communities at
risk," said Bruce Mirken, the MPP director of communications.

The MPP makes no bones about their disdain for laws prohibiting
cultivation of marijuana or apparently getting it into the hands of
kids, they want to legalize and regulate marijuana similarly to the
liquor industry.

But the point is – it's against the law as of now. People are being
killed trying to stop this illegal activity. Illicit drug users are
as guilty in the killings taking place as are the drug gangster
pulling the trigger.

So what part of it's illegal is not understood?


Who is the author of this piece?

rpleger read it this morning so it must have been an Op-Ed piece from somewhere.

What are the ethic/legalites of publishing copyrighted material WITHOUT proper credit to the author?

I'm sure you were not trying to pass that off as your own, but that mistake would be easy to make.

Woooosh - 8-18-2008 at 07:40 PM

Quote:
Quote:


Who is the author of this piece?

rpleger read it this morning so it must have been an Op-Ed piece from somewhere.

What are the ethic/legalites of publishing copyrighted material WITHOUT proper credit to the author?

I'm sure you were not trying to pass that off as your own, but that mistake would be easy to make.


Plagiarism is the same as illegal immigration to them- illegal is illegal.

rpleger - 8-18-2008 at 07:47 PM

It was ether The New York Times or The Los Angles Times,

Sorry, it was Sundog's Baja Group Digest #2169-
and this is a quote from BAJA DIGEST
By Patrick Osio, Jr./HispanicVista. com

[Edited on 8-19-2008 by rpleger]

Woooosh - 8-19-2008 at 08:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rpleger
It was ether The New York Times or The Los Angles Times,

Sorry, it was Sundog's Baja Group Digest #2169-
and this is a quote from BAJA DIGEST
By Patrick Osio, Jr./HispanicVista. com

[Edited on 8-19-2008 by rpleger]


oh please. Baja Digest?

Eugenio - 8-19-2008 at 09:22 AM

Anyone who thinks that the cartels are simply serving the needs of a preexisting market is pretty naiive - the cartels are also doing what it takes to "expand" that market - that is - they are targeting american (especially mexican-american) youth - to increase their customer base.

The US has been very generous with respect to immigration - at one point in the 90's the US accepted more legal immigration than the rest of the world combined - and that aside from essentially turning it's head on illegal immigration.

Mexico is amongst the last to complain about undocumenteds entering its territory.

Green budget crutch

TacoFeliz - 8-19-2008 at 09:50 AM

Quote:
California is now pulling in $100 million per year in taxes from medical pot sales. Far out!

If the Feds get their way, not for long. Making it legal makes too much common sense.





Hmmm... Perhaps it is time to consider the situation in a new light. Spark up a fatty while we mull this over.

:biggrin:



.

Eugenio - 8-19-2008 at 09:53 AM

...and another couple of things...anyone who thinks that Mexico is served well by losing it's youngest, brightest, risk-takingest demographic is a dope.

Mexico has serious problems providing the opportunity that its populace deserves - that's why they are leaving - and not just to the US. L - Mexico has lost in the neighborhood of 20% populace to immigration - legal and illegal.

The US certainly has its own issues - but to paint Mexico as some sort of victim in the immigration debate is silly.

About the only thing the article got right was that corruption in Mexico is very low compared to the US. ...yeah ...right.

The author of this article seems to have been sampling some of the illegal contraband himself.

Iflyfish - 8-19-2008 at 09:56 AM

k-rico
Thanks for that very interesting and informative post and citation:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9369746...

We are in need of good information on this topic given the huge economic self interest and misleading statistics provided the public by the parties with vested interest in keeping this "War on Drugs" going.

It turns out that there are numerous psychoactive chemicals in Marijuana that the current laws inhibit our learning about. Since the hybridization of this drug has occured underground and academic study of the resulting substances have been virtually eliminated, we are way behind the curve in terms of developing useful drugs from these new species.

For a long time I have been angry with the real damage being done by this "War on Drugs". I read with saddness the stories of brave and good Mexicans and Americans killed in this never ending and impossible battle to end the evils of drug addiction by draconian measures. It is clear that this effort is a huge waste of economic resources that could be used in positive ways to benifit us all. We have seen the power of education and social stigma in reducing tobacco use. We know that history of how prohibition not only failed to stop use it further generated a class of criminals.

So I have been reading about this and it is clear that the underground economy of this is huge. Marijuana is the second leading cash crop in California, Oregon and British Columbia. Those are serious dollars and do not indicate ANY reduction in use. The current policy of Waging War is a total failure.

It is further clear from my readings that there are potentially very useful chemical compounds in the new hybrid marijuana plants that will have significant medical benifit.

It is also clear that human beings are an addiction prone organism. Humans through out their history have used, grown and modified substances to alter their consciousness. People seek pleasure and avoid pain and this will never go away. What we can and need to do is clearly evaluate the assumptions underlying our current approach to this very important issue. How can we help those who misuse and abuse these substances. Does locking people in jail with hardened criminal offenders deter either use or production? It would appear that production and use have actually increased under this "War on Drugs". It is also clear that anyone who advocates for legalization or decriminalization is apt to be demonized as someone advocating use and abuse.

Iflfyishwhennottiltingwindmills

bajajazz - 8-19-2008 at 12:39 PM

Mexico would fall into a serious economic depression that would further exacerbate the problem of her unemployed fleeing to the U.S. for jobs if she were to lose the income derived from drug trafficking, something that neither government wants and will do their best to prevent.

I have repeatedly read that the graft alone is worth six billion dollars every year to members of Mexico's power structure. In terms of its importance to Mexico's GNP, drug trafficking falls just behind revenues from Pemex, tourism and workers' remittances from jobs in the United States.

The "War On Drugs" is a joke, a farce, a Kabuki dance of activity that is structured to succeed only to the extent that it keeps the price of drugs from falling through the floor.

If either of our governments truly wanted to put the narcotrafficantes out of business they'd go after the guys in the suits and the casssocks who are laundering the money. The occasional arrest or killing of a Pablo Escobar is strictly show business, entertaining but essentially meaningless.

It is a truism that massive organized crime simply cannot exist without the benefit of massive corruption and the active collusion of those whose task it is to eradicate it.

That is why the "War On Drugs" will go on forever, and also why decriminalization and eventual legalization will never happen.

Iflyfish - 8-19-2008 at 03:04 PM

bajajazz

You make a good point about the vested interests that run counter to decriminalization and legalization. However it is true that the public is becoming aware of the legitimate medical uses of Marijuana and as the NPR site notes above reports, there is big money to be made through legalization and taxation. Since one of the stated goals of the NeoCons who have run Washington for the past many years has been to bankrupt government so as to do away with entitlements and they have succeeded, the government will have to look to generate other sources of revenue. One model of this is gambling via the State lotteries, which was resisted tooth and nail for a very long time until the general population tumbled to the fact that it is a great source of revenue. Not much trumps economic self interest.

Iflyfish

Cypress - 8-19-2008 at 03:22 PM

This legalization of pot issue is silly and short sighted.:lol:Think of all the taxes we can get from legalization and taxation? Jeez. Any idiot with a seed or two can grow their own pot. No taxes there! Heck, with enough gardening know-how they can produce enough for the whole neighborhood. I'm for legalization! At least it'll put an end to all the drug killings etc.:O I don't smoke pot, makes me freakier than usual, but have no problems with anyone that does. :D

palmeto99 - 8-19-2008 at 03:38 PM

This thread is a fun time for the pro drug crowd. If they make weed and coke legal for instance, the cartels will just step up the heroin,crank and worst drugs to fill the void.
They will compete with each other or the government as we are seeing in Mexico now.
The jury is still out on the medicinal value of weed except as an appetite enhancer for cancer victims. If THC was a wonder drug, they could make it in tablet form . The California drug collectives are a front for druggies to get some smoke. Nothing else.:cool:

Cypress - 8-19-2008 at 03:58 PM

palmeto99, :D My question? If those druggies want some smoke, what the heck is the harm done if they get some?:tumble:

dtbushpilot - 8-19-2008 at 04:02 PM

and if the crack heads just want some crack what's the harm there?:O

Cypress - 8-19-2008 at 04:12 PM

dtbushpilot, No harm, let 'em have all the crack they want. :D

dtbushpilot - 8-19-2008 at 04:19 PM

Cypress, tell that to the 85 year old lady who just got knocked to the ground by some purse snatching crack head as you help her up and take her to the ER....dt:wow:

palmeto99 - 8-19-2008 at 04:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
palmeto99, :D My question? If those druggies want some smoke, what the heck is the harm done if they get some?:tumble:



Nothing, just call it like it is. Californias sanctioning of these places flys in the face of the federal law. Change the law and play by the federal rules. Being pro weed is fine but do not push for a blanket exemption of all drugs. Its just not going to happen. Pick a target that can be achieved and you can get the law passed. Push a pipedream and we will still be talking about it in twenty tears.:cool:

Besides, We know the weed from Vancouver,BC blows away the northern .Cal. variety:lol:

[Edited on 8-19-2008 by palmeto99]

Iflyfish - 8-19-2008 at 08:56 PM

The pipedream is the thirty plus year old "War on Drugs" that presumes prohibition will stop people from using this drug.

Marijuana has well documented analgesic properties as well as antiinflamatory properties. Do your homework.

Iflyfishwhennottiltingwindmills

palmeto99 - 8-20-2008 at 05:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
The pipedream is the thirty plus year old "War on Drugs" that presumes prohibition will stop people from using this drug.

Marijuana has well documented analgesic properties as well as antiinflamatory properties. Do your homework.

Iflyfishwhennottiltingwindmills



So breaking the law is ok because you dont like the law.
I do not have to do my homework as the drug(weed) is illegal
Antiimflamatory and analgeics properties.?
:cool:Come on and get real . What quack document did you get this from. High times or Rolling Stone magazine.
I smoke it once in a while because its fun not unlike a good bottle of cabernet but I am not so foolish to give it medical merits beyond its actual usefulness.

CaboRon - 8-20-2008 at 06:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
The pipedream is the thirty plus year old "War on Drugs" that presumes prohibition will stop people from using this drug.

Marijuana has well documented analgesic properties as well as antiinflamatory properties. Do your homework.

Iflyfishwhennottiltingwindmills


Thankyou , it seems sad we are still being punished by those who consume alcohol and smoke cigaretts and think those are wholesome.

CaboRon

Iflyfish - 8-20-2008 at 08:27 AM

Please Google terms like Marijuana anesthetic, or Marijuana medical properties, or Marijuana anti-inflammatory, or Marijuana research. I have quoted extensively from the following as an example of what you will find from such a search.
http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/common/standard/tr...
I would also note that misogyny laws were on the books in the US for many years, along with laws prohibiting sexual acts between consenting adults, Rosa Parks is one example of someone who broke the law and benefited us all. Laws reflect political and social perspectives which thank the goddess change as information becomes available to modify these laws. By the way, women now vote blacks can vote we can drink a c-cktail without breaking a law; the disabled are guaranteed access to facilities because laws have changed. When you make illegal something that is highly valued, people will continue to obtain and use whatever that substance, object or activity is. By the way, have you noticed that Prostitution continues to exist? Strange isn’t it that this activity has been deemed to be immoral, illegal and criminal for nearly the entire history of mankind and yet it still exists. Can you explain this to me? Does legislating morality ever work?
The following is quoted from the source cited above. I have edited it to include only quotes germane to the points you have raised. You can read the entire text at the cite above.
“Marijuana has been cultivated for thousands of years. Cannabis was first described for its therapeutic use in the first known Chinese pharmacopoeia, the Pen Ts'ao. (A pharmacopoeia is a book containing a list of medicinal drugs, and their descriptions of preparation and use.) Cannabis was called a "superior" herb by the Emperor Shen-Nung (2737-2697 B.C.), who is believed to have authored the work. Cannabis was recommended as a treatment for numerous common ailments. Around that same period in Egypt, cannabis was used as a treatment for sore eyes. The herb was used in India in cultural and religious ceremonies, and recorded in Sanskrit scriptural texts around 1,400 B.C. Cannabis was considered a holy herb and was characterized as the "soother of grief," "the sky flyer," and "the poor man's heaven." Centuries later, around 700 B.C., the Assyrian people used the herb they called Qunnabu, for incense. The ancient Greeks used cannabis as a remedy to treat inflammation, earache, and edema (swelling of a body part due to collection of fluids). Shortly after 500 B.C. the historian and geographer Herodotus recorded that the peoples known as Scythians used cannabis to produce fine linens. They called the herb kannabis and inhaled the "intoxicating vapor" that resulted when it was burned. By the year 100 B.C. the Chinese were using cannabis to make paper.
A growing body of scientific research and many thousands of years of folk use support the importance of medical marijuana in treatment of a variety of illnesses, and the economic value of hemp in the textile, paper, and cordage industries has a long history.
The conflicting opinions on the safety and effectiveness of cannabis in a climate of prohibition make any discussion of its beneficial uses politically charged. Marijuana has analgesic, antiemetic, anti-inflammatory, sedative, anticonvulsive, and laxative actions. Clinical studies have demonstrated its effectiveness in relieving nausea and vomiting following chemotherapy treatments for cancer. The herb has also been shown to reduce intra-ocular pressure in the eye by as much as 45%, a beneficial action in the treatment for glaucoma. Cannabis has proven anticonvulsive action, and may be helpful in treating epilepsy. Other research has documented an in-vitro tumor inhibiting effect of THC. Marijuana also increases appetite and reduces nausea and has been used with AIDS patients to counter weight loss and "wasting" that may result from the disease. Several chemical constituents of cannabis displayed antimicrobial action and antibacterial effects in research studies. The components CBC and d-9-tetrahydrocannabinol have been shown to destroy and inhibit the growth of streptococci and staphylococci bacteria.
The controversy and misinformation persists around this relatively safe and non-toxic herb. The World Health Organization, in a 1998 study, stated that the risks from cannabis use were unlikely to seriously compare to the public health risks of the legal drugs, alcohol and tobacco. And despite thousands of years of human consumption, not one death has been directly attributed to cannabis use. According to Lester Grinspoon, MD, and James B. Bakalar, JD, in a 1995 Journal of the American Medical Association article, "Marihuana is also far less addictive and far less subject to abuse than many drugs now used as muscle relaxants, hypnotics, and analgesics. The chief legitimate concern is the effect of smoking on the lungs. Cannabis smoke carries even more tars and other particulate matter than tobacco smoke. But the amount smoked is much less, especially in medical use, and once marihuana is an openly recognized medicine, solutions may be found."

Iflyfishwhennotdoingyourhomeworkandtiltingatwindmills

Iflyfish - 8-20-2008 at 08:29 AM

Don't want you to miss the entire link as you go and read about the medical benefits of Marijuana.

http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/common/standard/tr...

Iflyfish

palmeto99 - 8-20-2008 at 04:24 PM

The most telling quote from your article was "when its openly accepted as a medicine."
I understand your passion about the subject but instead of complaining about the law or the war on drugs as it is called these days. Work on changing the law to allow the use of weed while still prohibiting the really bad drugs .
You must agree that recreational use of coke,heroin,crank is not going to and should not be allowed.:cool:

bajalou - 8-20-2008 at 06:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by palmeto99
You must agree that recreational use of coke,heroin,crank is not going to and should not be allowed.:cool:


All the money and people involved so far haven't slowed use down. What's your secret plan to stop it?

palmeto99 - 8-20-2008 at 06:33 PM

As the Mexicans are involved in a real war on drugs. Take a page out of their playbook. Lets put our troops on the northern and southern borders as this is a national security problem.
Please do not tell me that all the troops are overseas . There are 75% of our troops still in country and in Germany and South Korea that could be used.
Move some of our bases to remote border areas that have the highest violations.:cool:

805gregg - 8-20-2008 at 08:52 PM

The good pot is grown in the US. I watched the local sheriffs haul a lot of good pot from the surrounding mountains today.

Iflyfish - 8-20-2008 at 11:31 PM

805gregg

Exactly, home grown and no need to import and no need to purchase illegally if legalized.

Palmetto99

You take this quote from the following paragraph “The most telling quote from your article was "when its openly accepted as a medicine." And say that this is “the most telling quote”. You are ignoring that the paragraph contains a statement from the World Health Organization and another from authors in the Journal of the American Medical Asociation, JAMA, and ignore the fact of the legalization of Medical Marijuana in a number of states in the US in order to conclude that Marijuana is not openly accepted as a medicine. You say this in light of thousands of years of use for medical purposes. Stunning, that conclusion is stunning. I believe that the reference is not that Marijuana does not have medical value, as you earlier stated, but that there is still a question of it’s utility, the meaning of the paragraph is that there are issues of it being recognized “openly”, that implies that it is recognized, just not openly. There is increasingly open recognition of the medical utility of Marijuana as is evidenced by the fact of numerous states legalization of Medical Marijuana as cited in the NPR program.

Following is the paragraph you take the sentence out of” “The controversy and misinformation persists around this relatively safe and non-toxic herb. The World Health Organization, in a 1998 study, stated that the risks from cannabis use were unlikely to seriously compare to the public health risks of the legal drugs, alcohol and tobacco. And despite thousands of years of human consumption, not one death has been directly attributed to cannabis use. According to Lester Grinspoon, MD, and James B. Bakalar, JD, in a 1995 Journal of the American Medical Association article, "Marihuana is also far less addictive and far less subject to abuse than many drugs now used as muscle relaxants, hypnotics, and analgesics. The chief legitimate concern is the effect of smoking on the lungs. Cannabis smoke carries even more tars and other particulate matter than tobacco smoke. But the amount smoked is much less, especially in medical use, and once marihuana is an openly recognized medicine, solutions may be found."

The article clearly states that thousands of years folk (and now legitimate research) as well as legislative analysis have documented the medical use of Marijuana for a variety of illnesses.
“A growing body of scientific research and many thousands of years of folk use support the importance of medical marijuana in treatment of a variety of illnesses”

This conclusion indicates that there is already acceptance of Medical Marijuana as a legitimate drug in the treatment of numerous conditions.

You further write “I understand your passion about the subject but instead of complaining about the law or the war on drugs as it is called these days. Work on changing the law to allow the use of weed while still prohibiting the really bad drugs .
You must agree that recreational use of coke,heroin,crank is not going to and should not be allowed

I am doing my part to promote public education. I am engaged in educating you via this dialogue. Others are also reading this exchange and are also learning.

The fact is that local laws and practices in many US states have decriminalized or now ignore the possession of small quantities of Marijuana. It is also true that State Legislations, with lots of study and debate, have legalized the use of Medical Marijuana on a physician’s recommendation and those dispensaries in California are already licensed by the State. The Federal Government is just behind the times as it is with the gay marriage laws in Mass. A Democratic Congress may very well see this issue differently. A Democratic President may also support decriminalization. Many states passed Civil Rights Laws before the Federal Government did.

I am not here arguing for the legalization of other drugs, though there is a well documented precedence for this approach in Europe.

Iflyfish