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conquestkm
Junior Nomad
Posts: 59
Registered: 9-8-2006
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Mood: "I could have been a Rhodes Scholar, except for my grades."
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“What part of illegal do you not understand"
Rightfully, a lot of Mexicans are asking of Americans, "What part of
illegal do you not understand?" And, "We thought you said, the US is
a nation of laws." The reference is to illicit drug usage by so many
millions of Americans buying and using an estimated $150 billion
annually. And, this is the money Mexican drug lords use to finance
buying guns from American gun dealers, killing soldiers, police
officers, prosecutors, journalists and innocent by standards for
being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
We have to admit, there is some heavy hypocrisy going on. We are
quick to condemn gardeners, dishwashers, fruit pickers, vegetable
harvesters, meat cutters, hotel maids, janitors who make up the
majority of those who enter the US illegally, but nary a word about
the killings going on in Mexico in an attempt to keep drugs out of
the US and away from America's youths. Not a word.
Instead what we do hear is, "The corrupt Mexican government is
responsible and protects the drug barons." On its face this is about
as ridiculous a statement as any of the many made by would
be "patriots," the Lou Dobbs of the air waves, and some of the most
extreme rights in politics, and let us not forget, a huge number of
wannabe famous reporters who have found a new target for
sensationalism in their writings.
I suggest the above statement is ridiculous because it flies against
facts. Mexico leads the world in marijuana eradication (the US is
second), and has seized far more cocaine and other types barbiturates
than the US and most other countries. And Mexico has lost more law
enforcement and military personnel than the U.S. In fact, Mexico's
war against drugs deaths rivals those of the US military losses in
Iraq. They are paying a hefty price to help the US young.
How do we repay this? Accuse them of corruption, and allow the US
press to have a field day at Mexico's expense. Cub or non-seasoned
reporters, many not even bothering to go to Mexico will sit behind
their computer screen, Google "Mexican drug wars" and from there
either copy/paste make a few changes here and there, and out goes the
story.
The more responsible newspapers do have their reporters "call"
authorities in the field to obtain quotes that will support the story
already in progress. A few venture into Mexico, but not many. In the
end, the story has mistakes, misconceptions and most will rehash old
news mingled in with the new so as to give the appearance that some
events of months or even years ago are part of the new events.
What all articles have in common is that none touch on the root of
the problem. One, a USA Today article did bring out drug usage, but
not in the US, in Mexico. It did say that since Mexican authorities
working closely with US law enforcement have stopped quite a bit of
the smuggling, some drugs were staying in Mexico and traffickers were
developing a market. But the US market is still a 30 to 1 in dollar
value.
Why does the US press ignore the danger of drugs to our young? Is it
because so many of the reporters, or in the industry are themselves
users of such "socially accepted" drugs like marijuana and cocaine
that they are not in agreement with Federal, states' and local laws
prohibiting their use?
The "nation of laws" has become so unashamed on drug usage that an
organization such as Marijuana Policy Project (MPP) sends press
releases to the news media condemning the annual Campaign Against
Marijuana Planting.
"Record setting busts each year have done nothing to reduce the
marijuana supply or keep marijuana out of the hands of kids, but they
have succeeded brilliantly in driving the growers to more dangerous
locations, putting national parks and residential communities at
risk," said Bruce Mirken, the MPP director of communications.
The MPP makes no bones about their disdain for laws prohibiting
cultivation of marijuana or apparently getting it into the hands of
kids, they want to legalize and regulate marijuana similarly to the
liquor industry.
But the point is – it's against the law as of now. People are being
killed trying to stop this illegal activity. Illicit drug users are
as guilty in the killings taking place as are the drug gangster
pulling the trigger.
So what part of it's illegal is not understood?
Conquestkm
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rpleger
Super Nomad
Posts: 1087
Registered: 3-12-2005
Location: H. Mulegé, BCS
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Mood: Was good.
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Yes, I read this this morning...They a point...A good point.
Richard on the Hill
*ABROAD*, adj. At war with savages and idiots. To be a Frenchman abroad is to
be miserable; to be an American abroad is to make others miserable.
-- Ambrose Bierce, _The Enlarged Devil\'s Dictionary_
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Legalization and taxation coupled with public education is the only way out of this crazy whack a mole game. Rep. Barney Frank, Mass. has submitted
legistlation toward that end last term and will do so again this coming term.
Look to the history of Prohibition and to the reduction of tobacco use as models for how to and not to address issues of this nature.
Iflyfish
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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Geesh. Mexico is so good at playing the victim- that it actually believes what it says these days. It's the media. It's the addicts.
Mexico tries to get it both ways- north and south. It brutally stops human immigration (but not the flow of drugs apparently) on their heavily armed
and manned southern border- yet turns a blind eye to all that is smuggled (both ways) across their northern border.
Mexico could find the politcal will to help the USA build a complete northen border fence, we'll man it on both sides and starve the drug dealers out.
Mexico will show a consistent will to protect and defend itself from intruders north and south. After Mexico does that, it can point fingers
elsewhere IMHO.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
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It is an excellent point and an important part of the drug trade that Americans don't mention much. Americans are supplying the demand and breaking
their own laws doing so.
I heard on PBS today that an estimate of annual federal tax revenue from legalized mota is $31 billion.
California is now pulling in $100 million per year in taxes from medical pot sales. Far out!
This is heavy
[Edited on 8-18-2008 by k-rico]
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TonyC
Nomad
Posts: 421
Registered: 1-25-2008
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
California is now pulling in $100 million per year in taxes from medical pot sales. Far out!
This is heavy
[Edited on 8-18-2008 by k-rico] |
If the Feds get their way, not for long. Making it legal makes to much common sense.
House fire, pot grower
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=T4Z4mjBjW3E&feature=relate...
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
It is an excellent point and an important part of the drug trade that Americans don't mention much. Americans are supplying the demand and breaking
their own laws doing so.
I heard on PBS today that an estimate of annual federal tax revenue from legalized mota is $31 billion.
California is now pulling in $100 million per year in taxes from medical pot sales. Far out!
This is heavy
[Edited on 8-18-2008 by k-rico] |
Wow, even PBS says that now? $31 Billion a year could cover all Americans for complete health care- including drug addiction treatment cities. 
Entering a country illegally (misdemeanor)and using a false SS identificaton number to seek work (felony) holds the same weight with you as getting a
"parking ticket" for smoking pot? It's "Illegal is illegal" and it's that black and white for everything in your world? Hope you're not a catholic.
As has been posted here- the retail cost of a gram of powder cocaine is down to about $33. What does that number mean? Cocaine and other hard drugs
will never and should never be legalized and anyone who watches "Weeds" knows that the best pot is homegrown USA from upscale neighborhood grow
houses.
Leaglize and tax it like the "Amsterdam" approach to limited legalizaton. After decades- The Dutch historical data shows that just because drugs are
readily and legally available- doesn't mean more people will use them- let alone become addicted to them (Same went for young people and sex/
legalized prostitution).
[Edited on 8-19-2008 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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jeans
Super Nomad
Posts: 1059
Registered: 9-16-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Encantada
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Who is the author of this piece?
| Quote: | Originally posted by conquestkm
Rightfully, a lot of Mexicans are asking of Americans, "What part of
illegal do you not understand?" And, "We thought you said, the US is
a nation of laws." The reference is to illicit drug usage by so many
millions of Americans buying and using an estimated $150 billion
annually. And, this is the money Mexican drug lords use to finance
buying guns from American gun dealers, killing soldiers, police
officers, prosecutors, journalists and innocent by standards for
being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
We have to admit, there is some heavy hypocrisy going on. We are
quick to condemn gardeners, dishwashers, fruit pickers, vegetable
harvesters, meat cutters, hotel maids, janitors who make up the
majority of those who enter the US illegally, but nary a word about
the killings going on in Mexico in an attempt to keep drugs out of
the US and away from America's youths. Not a word.
Instead what we do hear is, "The corrupt Mexican government is
responsible and protects the drug barons." On its face this is about
as ridiculous a statement as any of the many made by would
be "patriots," the Lou Dobbs of the air waves, and some of the most
extreme rights in politics, and let us not forget, a huge number of
wannabe famous reporters who have found a new target for
sensationalism in their writings.
I suggest the above statement is ridiculous because it flies against
facts. Mexico leads the world in marijuana eradication (the US is
second), and has seized far more cocaine and other types barbiturates
than the US and most other countries. And Mexico has lost more law
enforcement and military personnel than the U.S. In fact, Mexico's
war against drugs deaths rivals those of the US military losses in
Iraq. They are paying a hefty price to help the US young.
How do we repay this? Accuse them of corruption, and allow the US
press to have a field day at Mexico's expense. Cub or non-seasoned
reporters, many not even bothering to go to Mexico will sit behind
their computer screen, Google "Mexican drug wars" and from there
either copy/paste make a few changes here and there, and out goes the
story.
The more responsible newspapers do have their reporters "call"
authorities in the field to obtain quotes that will support the story
already in progress. A few venture into Mexico, but not many. In the
end, the story has mistakes, misconceptions and most will rehash old
news mingled in with the new so as to give the appearance that some
events of months or even years ago are part of the new events.
What all articles have in common is that none touch on the root of
the problem. One, a USA Today article did bring out drug usage, but
not in the US, in Mexico. It did say that since Mexican authorities
working closely with US law enforcement have stopped quite a bit of
the smuggling, some drugs were staying in Mexico and traffickers were
developing a market. But the US market is still a 30 to 1 in dollar
value.
Why does the US press ignore the danger of drugs to our young? Is it
because so many of the reporters, or in the industry are themselves
users of such "socially accepted" drugs like marijuana and cocaine
that they are not in agreement with Federal, states' and local laws
prohibiting their use?
The "nation of laws" has become so unashamed on drug usage that an
organization such as Marijuana Policy Project (MPP) sends press
releases to the news media condemning the annual Campaign Against
Marijuana Planting.
"Record setting busts each year have done nothing to reduce the
marijuana supply or keep marijuana out of the hands of kids, but they
have succeeded brilliantly in driving the growers to more dangerous
locations, putting national parks and residential communities at
risk," said Bruce Mirken, the MPP director of communications.
The MPP makes no bones about their disdain for laws prohibiting
cultivation of marijuana or apparently getting it into the hands of
kids, they want to legalize and regulate marijuana similarly to the
liquor industry.
But the point is – it's against the law as of now. People are being
killed trying to stop this illegal activity. Illicit drug users are
as guilty in the killings taking place as are the drug gangster
pulling the trigger.
So what part of it's illegal is not understood? |
Who is the author of this piece?
rpleger read it this morning so it must have been an Op-Ed piece from somewhere.
What are the ethic/legalites of publishing copyrighted material WITHOUT proper credit to the author?
I'm sure you were not trying to pass that off as your own, but that mistake would be easy to make.
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: |
Who is the author of this piece?
rpleger read it this morning so it must have been an Op-Ed piece from somewhere.
What are the ethic/legalites of publishing copyrighted material WITHOUT proper credit to the author?
I'm sure you were not trying to pass that off as your own, but that mistake would be easy to make. |
Plagiarism is the same as illegal immigration to them- illegal is illegal.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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rpleger
Super Nomad
Posts: 1087
Registered: 3-12-2005
Location: H. Mulegé, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Was good.
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It was ether The New York Times or The Los Angles Times,
Sorry, it was Sundog's Baja Group Digest #2169-
and this is a quote from BAJA DIGEST
By Patrick Osio, Jr./HispanicVista. com
[Edited on 8-19-2008 by rpleger]
Richard on the Hill
*ABROAD*, adj. At war with savages and idiots. To be a Frenchman abroad is to
be miserable; to be an American abroad is to make others miserable.
-- Ambrose Bierce, _The Enlarged Devil\'s Dictionary_
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rpleger
It was ether The New York Times or The Los Angles Times,
Sorry, it was Sundog's Baja Group Digest #2169-
and this is a quote from BAJA DIGEST
By Patrick Osio, Jr./HispanicVista. com
[Edited on 8-19-2008 by rpleger] |
oh please. Baja Digest?
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Eugenio
Nomad
Posts: 206
Registered: 4-23-2008
Location: Navojoa, Son.
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Anyone who thinks that the cartels are simply serving the needs of a preexisting market is pretty naiive - the cartels are also doing what it takes to
"expand" that market - that is - they are targeting american (especially mexican-american) youth - to increase their customer base.
The US has been very generous with respect to immigration - at one point in the 90's the US accepted more legal immigration than the rest of the world
combined - and that aside from essentially turning it's head on illegal immigration.
Mexico is amongst the last to complain about undocumenteds entering its territory.
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TacoFeliz
Nomad
Posts: 266
Registered: 7-22-2005
Location: Here
Member Is Offline
Mood: Exploratory
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Green budget crutch
| Quote: | California is now pulling in $100 million per year in taxes from medical pot sales. Far out!
If the Feds get their way, not for long. Making it legal makes too much common sense.
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Hmmm... Perhaps it is time to consider the situation in a new light. Spark up a fatty while we mull this over.
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Eugenio
Nomad
Posts: 206
Registered: 4-23-2008
Location: Navojoa, Son.
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...and another couple of things...anyone who thinks that Mexico is served well by losing it's youngest, brightest, risk-takingest demographic is a
dope.
Mexico has serious problems providing the opportunity that its populace deserves - that's why they are leaving - and not just to the US. L - Mexico
has lost in the neighborhood of 20% populace to immigration - legal and illegal.
The US certainly has its own issues - but to paint Mexico as some sort of victim in the immigration debate is silly.
About the only thing the article got right was that corruption in Mexico is very low compared to the US. ...yeah ...right.
The author of this article seems to have been sampling some of the illegal contraband himself.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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k-rico
Thanks for that very interesting and informative post and citation:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9369746...
We are in need of good information on this topic given the huge economic self interest and misleading statistics provided the public by the parties
with vested interest in keeping this "War on Drugs" going.
It turns out that there are numerous psychoactive chemicals in Marijuana that the current laws inhibit our learning about. Since the hybridization of
this drug has occured underground and academic study of the resulting substances have been virtually eliminated, we are way behind the curve in terms
of developing useful drugs from these new species.
For a long time I have been angry with the real damage being done by this "War on Drugs". I read with saddness the stories of brave and good Mexicans
and Americans killed in this never ending and impossible battle to end the evils of drug addiction by draconian measures. It is clear that this effort
is a huge waste of economic resources that could be used in positive ways to benifit us all. We have seen the power of education and social stigma in
reducing tobacco use. We know that history of how prohibition not only failed to stop use it further generated a class of criminals.
So I have been reading about this and it is clear that the underground economy of this is huge. Marijuana is the second leading cash crop in
California, Oregon and British Columbia. Those are serious dollars and do not indicate ANY reduction in use. The current policy of Waging War is a
total failure.
It is further clear from my readings that there are potentially very useful chemical compounds in the new hybrid marijuana plants that will have
significant medical benifit.
It is also clear that human beings are an addiction prone organism. Humans through out their history have used, grown and modified substances to alter
their consciousness. People seek pleasure and avoid pain and this will never go away. What we can and need to do is clearly evaluate the assumptions
underlying our current approach to this very important issue. How can we help those who misuse and abuse these substances. Does locking people in jail
with hardened criminal offenders deter either use or production? It would appear that production and use have actually increased under this "War on
Drugs". It is also clear that anyone who advocates for legalization or decriminalization is apt to be demonized as someone advocating use and abuse.
Iflfyishwhennottiltingwindmills
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bajajazz
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Posts: 386
Registered: 12-18-2006
Location: La Paz, BCS, Mexico
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Mexico would fall into a serious economic depression that would further exacerbate the problem of her unemployed fleeing to the U.S. for jobs if she
were to lose the income derived from drug trafficking, something that neither government wants and will do their best to prevent.
I have repeatedly read that the graft alone is worth six billion dollars every year to members of Mexico's power structure. In terms of its
importance to Mexico's GNP, drug trafficking falls just behind revenues from Pemex, tourism and workers' remittances from jobs in the United States.
The "War On Drugs" is a joke, a farce, a Kabuki dance of activity that is structured to succeed only to the extent that it keeps the price of drugs
from falling through the floor.
If either of our governments truly wanted to put the narcotrafficantes out of business they'd go after the guys in the suits and the casssocks who are
laundering the money. The occasional arrest or killing of a Pablo Escobar is strictly show business, entertaining but essentially meaningless.
It is a truism that massive organized crime simply cannot exist without the benefit of massive corruption and the active collusion of those whose task
it is to eradicate it.
That is why the "War On Drugs" will go on forever, and also why decriminalization and eventual legalization will never happen.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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bajajazz
You make a good point about the vested interests that run counter to decriminalization and legalization. However it is true that the public is
becoming aware of the legitimate medical uses of Marijuana and as the NPR site notes above reports, there is big money to be made through legalization
and taxation. Since one of the stated goals of the NeoCons who have run Washington for the past many years has been to bankrupt government so as to do
away with entitlements and they have succeeded, the government will have to look to generate other sources of revenue. One model of this is gambling
via the State lotteries, which was resisted tooth and nail for a very long time until the general population tumbled to the fact that it is a great
source of revenue. Not much trumps economic self interest.
Iflyfish
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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This legalization of pot issue is silly and short sighted. Think of all the taxes
we can get from legalization and taxation? Jeez. Any idiot with a seed or two can grow their own pot. No taxes there! Heck, with enough gardening
know-how they can produce enough for the whole neighborhood. I'm for legalization! At least it'll put an end to all the drug killings etc. I don't smoke pot, makes me freakier than usual, but have no problems with anyone
that does. 
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palmeto99
Banned
Posts: 292
Registered: 7-15-2008
Location: loreto,BCS and East Coast USA (Spartanburg, SC)
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Mood: Trying to bring the worlds people together one post at a time.
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This thread is a fun time for the pro drug crowd. If they make weed and coke legal for instance, the cartels will just step up the heroin,crank and
worst drugs to fill the void.
They will compete with each other or the government as we are seeing in Mexico now.
The jury is still out on the medicinal value of weed except as an appetite enhancer for cancer victims. If THC was a wonder drug, they could make it
in tablet form . The California drug collectives are a front for druggies to get some smoke. Nothing else.
The advice I am about to give you is worth what you are paying for it.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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palmeto99, My question? If those druggies want some smoke, what the heck is the
harm done if they get some?
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