BajaNomad - IF I WERE PRESIDENT OF MEXICO THIS IS HOW I WOULD CLEAN IT UP. DO YOU HAVE A PLAN?

IF I WERE PRESIDENT OF MEXICO THIS IS HOW I WOULD CLEAN IT UP. DO YOU HAVE A PLAN?

ELINVESTIG8R - 9-1-2008 at 08:32 AM

NOTE: This is a very simplified version on how to clean up Mexico. Many additional elements will have to be in place before attempting such a move, like obtaining the cooperation of the United States and the countries of Belize and Guatemala. Also how to come up with sanitized police to leave behind once an area is cleaned out. This is just put out here as food for thought and is not the only solution. I have included a map of Mexico depicting a rudimentary troop deployment. Nothing is in concrete and all can be modified as needed.

I would call it: Operación Marcha de Justicia (Operation March of Justice)

If I was the President of Mexico I would assemble the leaders of the Legislative and Judicial Branches of Government to consult with them to determine my powers to clean up Mexico. If I am legally authorized to suspend the constitution and civil liberties of the people I would then assemble all of my senior General Officers from each branch of my Armed Forces and all the heads of my federal law enforcement.

Each would be subjected to a polygraph to confirm they have not been corrupted. All will confer with each other to determine the logistics of how to take back and clean up Mexico from the criminal element starting at the borders of Guatemala and Belize trekking NorthWest toward the state of Baja California. I will use all of my Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines, all of their reserves and Federal Law Enforcement.

Once in place at the aforementioned borders I will make an official declaration of war against the cartels and criminal element plaguing Mexico and invoke Article 29 of the Mexican Constitution suspending all rights, establish martial law and curfews.

My Armed Forces will commence a sweep across Mexico searching every home every rancho every building and under every rock arresting and/or killing the heads of the cartels and their henchmen. Once each state has been cleaned out I will restore the constitution and leave behind a "Clean" Municipal, State and Federal Police force to keep the ground my military has cleaned out.

[Edited on 9-3-2008 by ELINVESTI8]

Udo - 9-1-2008 at 08:52 AM

Sign me up for the bandwagon and the petition signature drive.
However, I would add the ability of gun ownership for personal protection to stop the kidnappings and extorsion.

comitan - 9-1-2008 at 09:02 AM

From what I've read there are Black Hummers & Suburbans all over the mainland that nobody messes with I wonder why, it would be simpler to just confiscate all the Black Hummers & Suburbans with the people on board.

BAJACAT - 9-1-2008 at 09:06 AM

legalize all drugs,then the Narcos will become honest bussines mans...

flyfishinPam - 9-1-2008 at 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BAJACAT
legalize all drugs,then the Narcos will become honest bussines mans...

EXACTLY

then that tax revenue could:

:coolup:

go towards rehabilitation to get addicts off drugs
:coolup:

go towards ecucation and preventative measures to stop folks from trying drugs
:coolup:

take the burden off small businesses and personas who are registered to pay taxes, currently a persona fisica (regular person) paye 27% of their income + another 16% of what's left over in their account if they cannot show it is an operating expense and that adds up to 43%!!! we are drowning in taxes and RECEIVE NADA for it!
:coolup:

and of course this additional revenue would stimulate business and thus the entire economy, more tourism and more opportunity.
:coolup:

Mexico could pay off all of its debts with this new revenue.
:coolup:

Mexico could invest the revenue in their energy sector.

etc....

instead Mexico prefers to export all of its able bodied adults so they can send remittances back to the very people that the Mexican government should be taking care of. the young keep going north while little children are left behind and the old care for them. these kids are growing up and their elderly serrogate parents canot handle them. there are no decent jobs here, they can't make a living wage, no educational opportunities, so they turn to drug use and drug sales to help themselves economically. This is failure not success. a failed state.

I don't think the president or the government can do anything if its people to not require them to. its up to the people, not the president.

Baja-Brit - 9-1-2008 at 09:57 AM

Unfortunately, like the US, foreigners are not eligable to stand for President in Mexico.

Infact it's illegal to even attend/support a political rally and you run the risk of being thrown out of the country.

But yes, I think drugs should be legalised and taxed accordingly and the money spent educating and rehabilitating etc.

At present the drugs trade is "underground" and as such cannot be controlled!!!

As you were.

palmeto99 - 9-1-2008 at 10:24 AM

Every month, Mexico drifts closer to a failed state status and a sweeping military takeover is the only way they will save the country. The average Mexican is not going to push for the needed reforms as they are scared to scold their own government. Suspend the constitution and put marshall law in place is the only answer as the road they are on now is a slow winding one into civil war. Check out the history of Columbia and chart its downfall. :cool:

woody with a view - 9-1-2008 at 10:31 AM

Quote:

starting at the borders of Guatemala and Belize trekking eastward

toward the state of Baja California.

god help us.....we're doomed. :light:

Woooosh - 9-1-2008 at 10:52 AM

I applaud you for trying to put a complex issue up for discussion.

My first thought is that your plan is doomed on the first step though - the polygraphs. You might have to preface any polygraph questions with "in the past two years since Calderon has taken office have you ever..." If you go back any further than two years- they are all guilty of corruption and cronyism or they wouldn't have made it that far.

gnukid - 9-1-2008 at 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baja-Brit
Unfortunately, like the US, foreigners are not eligable to stand for President in Mexico.

Infact it's illegal to even attend/support a political rally and you run the risk of being thrown out of the country.

Wrong, you can not support a political party which would hurt the state or attempt to hurt the state. So you can support ideals, the people, children and families, you can be a part of social action you just can not choose a candidate to run against the party in power. You can support the people in power and encourage the action you want or simply choose a cause and support it as long as its not hurtful or divisive. This is far different than the excuse many people make for not participating in the community.

Quote:

But yes, I think drugs should be legalised and taxed accordingly and the money spent educating and rehabilitating etc.

Quote:

At present the drugs trade is "underground" and as such cannot be controlled!!!

Wrong, drug trade is not underground? Do you think marijauna, cocaine, meth etc are transported in the back of a vw baja buggy? Do you think street dealers transport drugs and launder the funds? Do street dealers have planes? Do street dealers own banks that launder billions? Do you read the paper? They report who is caught... Drug trade is made possible by a vast integral network who benefits greatly from illegal drugs, prisons, laundering of funds. This is not some big crazy underground mystery. There is a massive controlled plan, and this is it, this is the system, this is how it works and its clear who profits.

[Edited on 9-2-2008 by gnukid]

Dreamer--anytime the gummint gets involved it gets bigger and

beercan - 9-1-2008 at 12:14 PM

and more taxes--we have bootleg (illegal tobacco, & liquor ) to prove that point !!

Quote:

by baja brit
But yes, I think drugs should be legalised and taxed accordingly and the money spent educating and rehabilitating etc. At present the drugs trade is "underground" and as such cannot be controlled!!!

bajabound2005 - 9-1-2008 at 01:13 PM

there oughta be a revolution..

Udo - 9-1-2008 at 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabound2005

Quote:

there oughta be a revolution..

Quote:

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!

AMEN!

Skeet/Loreto - 9-1-2008 at 03:39 PM

I have been going to Baja and Mexico Mainland since 1967.
I have been hearing the same ole Bull Puckey since that time>

Revolution!! Revolution!! Arn't you afraid of Living in Mexico!!

You will lose your Property and get thrown in Jail!!!

Same ole BS. When are you Young Senseless, Fearful Cry Babies going to Learn: There is nothing you can Change in Baja or Mexico.
It is not you Country!!
You are not going to Change It!!!

I would suggest that you use your Efforts in South Central La, East La, Oakland, Calif. Phoenix As, Detroit and of ocourse San Francisco{They need all the Help they can get}.

Skeet/Loreto {An Ole timer and Proud of It!!}

Packoderm - 9-1-2008 at 04:07 PM

If I were the President of Mexico, I'd announce a pro-active, four-point plan that would address the issues and grievances that pertain to the electorate. This would involve many conferences that would require a sizable travel budget for my elected supporters. Funds for drug enforcement would be gleaned from taxes which would then be entrusted in my care for accountability. Of course this anti-narcotics plan would require much of our attention so that other social concerns would need to be deferred for the foreseeable future. I'd caution against legalizing drugs because that would be extremely detrimental to those who are most in need of the profits generated from the drug trade thus reducing financial contributions made from them on my personal financial behalf. It's very complicated.

Hook - 9-1-2008 at 07:40 PM

Two things come to mind:

1-Gun ownership by ANYONE. It's now the classic case of only criminals having REAL guns.

2-a significant reward for people who turn in drug cartel members. There are countless mothers and wives and grown children of cartel members who live off the proceeds that members of cartels send their way. Even though they know that their baby boys, spouses are engaging in murder, kidnapping, etc., they are dependent on the income. MAKE THE REWARD ENOUGH FOR THEM TO LIVE ON FOR 5-10 YEARS AT A BASIC SUBSISTENCE LEVEL. AND CONVINCE THEM THAT THEIR SIGNIFICANT OTHERS ARE NO LONGER HUMAN BEINGS......THEY ARE ANIMALS/INSECTS THAT NEED TO BE EXTERMINATED FOR THE GOOD OF MEXICO. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. This would be more effective than trying to infiltrate the cartels with moles.

Udo - 9-1-2008 at 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
Two things come to mind:

Quote:

1-Gun ownership by ANYONE. It's now the classic case of only criminals having REAL guns.

Quote:

I second the motion of private gun ownership. I think the Mexican Feds outlawed private gun ownership just after Pancho Villa as a way to prevent revolutions. If the narcos had an idea that their neighbors were able to defend themselves, they would not be so bold in their attempts to silence people from turning them in. :!:

DENNIS - 9-2-2008 at 10:54 AM

Having had time to ponder the above solution, something else has come to mind.
Both sides of the border have to be attended to and cleaning one side without cleaning the other would be futile. The rank and file of the illicit drug enterprise, especially in the US, have little fear of incarceration and view it as nothing more than summer camp where they can hang with their scummy friends and get cheap tattoos. The punishment isn't a determent but, an occupational hazard.
Punishment must be enhanced to give it a true, undesirable quality but, civil rights stand in the way of this procedure so what I'm proposeing is a prison exlusivly for the drug trade folks which is outside the jurisdiction of the ACLU and the Ninth District Court of appeals. A prison which is meant to be feared for the life it affords inside the walls. A prison which doesn't allow the word "Rights."
Both Mexico and the US should cede an adjoining parcel of land on the border, fifty square miles total perhaps, and build a prison that would be designed in Hell. The territory wouldn't be in Mexico nor the US and would be administered by a private agency hired to maintain a strict decorum. A very strict decorum. Prisoners should enter through the company cemetary with graves hand-hewn to the size of a ziplock bag full of ashes, and prevailing breezes, if there are any, would waft a telltale exhaust from the incenerator.
Who would pay for this? Well, who pays for it now? Everybody pays for it and all the proceeds of saleable confiscations [not to include drugs] would be used to defray expenses.
The punishment today doesn't fit the crime. Perhaps it did somewhere in the past but, today it doesn't. That is what needs to be fixed. With our new prison in place, the problem would slowly abate and the Prison could be downsized according to need and it may even become a tourist attraction like Alcatraz.
The biggest problem we have today is not the illicit drug industry. It's our failure to convince them that they shouldn't be doing what they're doing.

Edited to get the prison name correct

[Edited on 9-2-2008 by DENNIS]

woody with a view - 9-2-2008 at 11:29 AM

Quote:

It's our failure to convince them that they shouldn't be doing what they're doing.

a co-worker/friend of mine spent 5 years locked up at Islas Marias prison. he says the problem is there are too many people who would rather have the chance at living large and maybe dying in a hail of bullets or having their head become detached from their body than to live a miserable existence as a poor mexican with no hope of a better life.

quite the argument......

DENNIS - 9-2-2008 at 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody in ob
a co-worker/friend of mine spent 5 years locked up at Islas Marias prison. he says the problem is there are too many people who would rather have the chance at living large and maybe dying in a hail of bullets or having their head become detached from their body than to live a miserable existence as a poor mexican with no hope of a better life.

quite the argument......

If that's the price which they deem equitable, they should be called upon to pay it. Unusual problems require unusual solutions.

woody with a view - 9-2-2008 at 11:57 AM

i'm with ya Dennis. but i can honestly say that i can see the other side of the argument. maybe it's that devil's advocate in me. :saint:

DENNIS - 9-2-2008 at 12:01 PM

I see it as well, Woody. Dedicated soldiers fight for many causes and many reasons.

flyfishinPam - 9-3-2008 at 01:34 PM

wow Dennis that's a solution but so is ethanol and tonic. drugs. what drugs? illegal only? what about the legal drug trade that Phizer, Merck, and Squibb are involved in? or Anheiser-Bush? what about wrongly accused? how would you like to end up in that prison you describe if you are in fact innocent? sounds like the war on terrorism parallels this.

I say make it all legal. for instance legalize meth labs and make meth a precribed medecine that doctors issue not unlike oxycontin. you don't see people killing over oxycontin do you? their drugs such as meth would need to pass FDA standards, the drug labs would be pretty overwhelmed in r and d and FDA compliance (that was part of my job once upon a time). legalizing drugs in Mexico would help for all of the reasons I described above, legalizing it in the USA would take it to another dimension, that of FDA approvals, testing, R and D, and OSHA standards.

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Having had time to ponder the above solution, something else has come to mind.
Both sides of the border have to be attended to and cleaning one side without cleaning the other would be futile. The rank and file of the illicit drug enterprise, especially in the US, have little fear of incarceration and view it as nothing more than summer camp where they can hang with their scummy friends and get cheap tattoos. The punishment isn't a determent but, an occupational hazard.
Punishment must be enhanced to give it a true, undesirable quality but, civil rights stand in the way of this procedure so what I'm proposeing is a prison exlusivly for the drug trade folks which is outside the jurisdiction of the ACLU and the Ninth District Court of appeals. A prison which is meant to be feared for the life it affords inside the walls. A prison which doesn't allow the word "Rights."
Both Mexico and the US should cede an adjoining parcel of land on the border, fifty square miles total perhaps, and build a prison that would be designed in Hell. The territory wouldn't be in Mexico nor the US and would be administered by a private agency hired to maintain a strict decorum. A very strict decorum. Prisoners should enter through the company cemetary with graves hand-hewn to the size of a ziplock bag full of ashes, and prevailing breezes, if there are any, would waft a telltale exhaust from the incenerator.
Who would pay for this? Well, who pays for it now? Everybody pays for it and all the proceeds of saleable confiscations [not to include drugs] would be used to defray expenses.
The punishment today doesn't fit the crime. Perhaps it did somewhere in the past but, today it doesn't. That is what needs to be fixed. With our new prison in place, the problem would slowly abate and the Prison could be downsized according to need and it may even become a tourist attraction like Alcatraz.
The biggest problem we have today is not the illicit drug industry. It's our failure to convince them that they shouldn't be doing what they're doing.

Edited to get the prison name correct

[Edited on 9-2-2008 by DENNIS]

Legal Schmegal

Dave - 9-3-2008 at 01:54 PM

And then what will the cartels do? Close up shop and just fade away?

Idon'thinso.

More likely they will undercut the legal market.

Penalize users. Doesn't have to be hard time. Just arrest and public record. Good jobs don't go to dopers. Fortune 500 companies don't hire 'em. If the casual user understands there is a long term consequence then he won't use. The cartels won't have customers. THEN they will fade away.

Mango - 9-3-2008 at 02:21 PM

Dave, they tried that in the 20's with booze in the USA. It didn't work.

There are already plenty of consequences for people caught using drugs. First off; drug users, or people who try drugs, don't think too far ahead.. otherwise they wouldn't be using drugs... (so deterrent does not work well)

Secondly, if everyone caught using drugs was prevented ever from getting a second chance and bettering themselves by getting a good job or their community they would be forced to use other means to survive.

What would that be? Hand outs or crime? Take your choice.. Since you don't think letting someone reform, learn from their mistakes, and pay their own way should be an option.

Legalize it, legislate it, and tax it. Let the cartels smuggle drugs into China instead. :lol:

TMW - 9-4-2008 at 12:43 PM

BajaWaverunner makes some good points. Your comments on ethics and trust ring a bell for me. In the early 90s I worked for KNSD-TV in San Diego. We were in talks with the GM at ch12 in TJ for a joint venture in news. The discussions went on for a few months with the ch12 GM saying many times we had a deal and during that time our chief photog, who was Mexican American, assured us that the GMs word was his bond, that was the way things were in Mexico. When a man gave his word it was true just as if he had signed on the line. Then one day I was having lunch with a friend that worked at KGTV in San Diego and he told me they had struck a deal with ch12 in a joint news venture. It turned out to be true. We were out and they were in. So much for his word being his bond.

David K - 9-4-2008 at 01:20 PM

BajaWaverunner, thank you for joining Nomad and being brave enough to post some hard facts of life from the inside... ... If steeling or cheating can be done without consequences or conscience, it won't end.

There are plenty of honest Mexicans who won't cheat... even a little ('BajaCactus' is one good hombre who belongs to this group). Let us hope for their greater, long term good, that all of Mexico realizes the benefits of honesty and fairness.

woody with a view - 9-4-2008 at 03:30 PM

Quote:

that all of Mexico realizes the benefits of honesty and fairness.

i guess a guy can hope, no? in our lifetimes things will be "what they are", you know, "it is what it is. that's all it will ever be".

same as it ever was......

DENNIS - 9-4-2008 at 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaWaverunner
The only way to fix mexico's problems is to instill a high level of ethics and trust into every child starting with pre-school.

I admire your enthusiasm, BW but, how would you go about doing that if, as you say, nobody in the country knows what that means?

CaboRon - 9-4-2008 at 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaWaverunner
The only way to fix mexico's problems is to instill a high level of ethics and trust into every child starting with pre-school.

I admire your enthusiasm, BW but, how would you go about doing that if, as you say, nobody in the country knows what that means?

Right On Dennis ,

Dishonisty is part of the fabric of this society ....

And I am told that these are quaint customs and they mean no harm .....

Maybe not, but the net result is a half truth (which is a full lie)

Like your "builder" won't tell you his crew screwed up the job, because he doesn't want to dissapoint you ....

What a Croc !

CaboRon

whalemeat - 9-4-2008 at 05:34 PM

The mexican gov. has always lied to the people. The people lie as a matter of habit. Its like having bad parents who pass off bad habits to the children.
The problem is I have not met very many mexicans who do not lie a little bit
or look for the easy way out. Its just the way the culture is.Some bring these bad habits to the states when they come over the line.Its a bad habit to break.

DENNIS - 9-4-2008 at 05:55 PM

I think it's a lot more complicated than saying, "They just Lie." Their manner of communicating is different from ours. In many cases, you will be told what you want to hear because they don't want any part of offending you.
This topic is heading south without many here, including myself, fully understanding the cultural differences. We only think we understand ourselves and the whole universe should follow that model.
This subject is too deep for happy hour.
Salud.

Edited for lousy spelling

[Edited on 9-5-2008 by DENNIS]

Dopers aren't interested in ''good jobs''.

Lee - 9-4-2008 at 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Penalize users. Doesn't have to be hard time. Just arrest and public record. Good jobs don't go to dopers. Fortune 500 companies don't hire 'em.

Users have been penalized for a long time -- and it has had no effect.

Have you ever been around someone doing meth? Good jobs for them? Do you think they care? Like the hookers on Hollywood Blvd., these dopers are in and out of the system like a revolving door. These are the people holding up the restaurants in Berkeley/Oakland now -- to get money to score.

Quote:

If the casual user understands there is a long term consequence then he won't use. The cartels won't have customers. THEN they will fade away.

You clearly do not understand dopers. Your logic might make sense to someone who is clean and sober. There are no long term consequnces for dopers to think about. They live here and now.

Since the war on drugs has ALWAYS been a dismal failure, might as well take that money and think outside the box. Legalize drugs and SEE WHAT HAPPENS. If it doesn't work, then the ''experiement'' demonstrated a correction would be needed.

Prohibition didn't work. Eventually, the ''drug'' issue will fall away too.

White people can't dance and are rude and aggressive.

Lee - 9-4-2008 at 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by whalemeat
The mexican gov. has always lied to the people. The people lie as a matter of habit. Its like having bad parents who pass off bad habits to the children.

The problem is I have not met very many mexicans who do not lie a little bit....

Nothing like gross generalizations and stereotypes. Think you need to meet more Mexicans.

Your first sentence is true. The rest is insulting. Just my opinion.

Iflyfish - 9-5-2008 at 12:49 AM

I don't have any pat answers to the question, it is complicated indeed. The roots of this issue go back to the time of the Aztecs, who ruled with an iron hand, followed by conquestadors/priests who took it to another level followed by self serving despots and one party rule for seventy five years that established a patronage system that is still in place, though challenged in the past two administrations with the affect of increased resistance and violence. Change will not come easy to a country of conquored people who carry in their dna the adaption to centuries of oppression where one can only trust family to support you and it's scratch my back and I will scratch yours. Minimal expectations and nehilistic strategies i.e. live for the moment and don't trust the government, police or the people who are in power because of the perogatives that government employment present. Everything is a favor in this sort of situation and it is how most of the world works, situational ethics is the ethic of the day. These attitudes are tempored by a religious adaptation that allows for confession and forgiveness and a ton of guilt to boot, which is profitable for the church, once thrown out of Mexico for it's corruption and abuse of the Mexican people.

I love Mexico and it's people. The family is the base of it all, the heart and sole of Mexico and any change of culture and values will come from there or not at all.

It is clear that the drugs are extremely profitable for everyone involved and even if poverty would be adequately addressed, it is still possible for folks high in the trade to live larger than those who work full time at "normal" occupations. I saw a 12 year old dealer in San Francisco, California, USofA dealing out of his fanny pack and I saw him take in over a hundred bucks while I had lunch. I thought to myself, how can this kid ever be interested in making seven fifty an hour? What could he do that would buy him the threads he sees worn by the gangster rapper that flows out of his Ipod?

There are not simple answers to problems as complex as addressed in this fascinating and vital topic.

One attempt to address one of the underlying roots of the problem is the denial that human beings are an organism that likes to alter it consciousness and that will not change. No amount of draconian measures or imprisonment will change the use of drugs. One of the approaches that will address a root cause, profit, would be legalization, sale and taxation by the state. This would bring the economy above ground. This would allow for realistic public education and funding for many projects of public interest related to drug education, prevention, treatment etc. including adequate child care for parents who are addicted and seaking help. This is a medical problem and should be addressed by experts on the subject who deal with this one case at a time. We have seen success with tobacco and the ending of Prohibition for historic models. Drug use will not go away, nor will tobacco addiction, nor will alcoholism, but they can be addressed over time by public policies that acknowledge the real issues involved.

What has been proposed here is the establishment of a police state in Mexico to address it's current problems. News flash, there is drug use in contries that are police states. A solution of this magnatude carries with it unanticipated consequences as evidenced by the history of Police and Military run dictatorships. There are trade offs when looking at the issue of liberty and security. Too much of one negates the other.

To deny that there are national characteristics in the general population is to deny the existance of the bones in our own noses. There are qualities both good and bad that describe the general characteristics of various cultures, subcultures, and family systems. The generalities about these characteristics can of course be argued by the individual example, but that begs the existance of very real cultural differences. Cultures evolve over time to adapt to the realities of their geography, climate, and history. There are reasons that German trains have run on time and other countries, not so much. There are reasons that in some cultures bones are worn in noses. There are reasons why people born and raised in the USofA see a larger picture of how infrastructure can benefit all members of the community and can't see why it is so hard in other countries to affect this. There are reasons why people from the same country are seen as pushy, time and product focused rather than focused on the hear and now and family.

I believe that the last two Mexican Presidents, both with in depth experience in the USofA, want to impliment reform that addresses corruption and the legal system that is based upon the Napolianic Code of Justice. There is an old Chinese curse that reads something like "May you live in times of great change". A curse indeed and one that is rocking the foundations of Mexican society and it's historic adaptive strategies.

IflyfishwhennotthinkingaboutourbelovedmexicoevenwhenoutfishinginBC

CaboRon - 9-5-2008 at 06:05 AM

Thank you Grover and Iffyfish ...

For presenting sane posts ....

Lee, I think you need to get to Pescadero and chill :lol:

CaboRon

These posts are total jokes

The Gull - 9-5-2008 at 06:17 AM

The arrogance and myopia-guided assertions are so typical of Gringos thinking they even have something to offer a foreign country in regards on how to run another country.

Based on this example, I agree the board is truly decaying.

David K - 9-5-2008 at 08:37 AM

Yup, let Mexico remain Mexican...

If you travel or live there, than ADJUST YOUR WAY OF THINKING!

Don't go to a place you fell in love with and start trying to change it into the place you left! What kind of logic is that??? :?:

Mango - 9-5-2008 at 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
I think it's a lot more complicated than saying, "They just Lie." Their manner of communicating is different from ours. In many cases, you will be told what you want to hear because they don't want any part of offending you.
This topic is heading south without many here, including myself, fully understanding the cultural differences. We only think we understand ourselves and the whole universe should follow that model.
This subject is too deep for happy hour.
Salud.

Edited for lousy spelling

[Edited on 9-5-2008 by DENNIS]

I think Dennis has it about right with this post. There are just differences in cultures and it can be hard to understand the logic, history, or rationale behind decisions that are made.

It's Mexico; not the US. If you don't want to take a bath, goto France, if you do, goto Japan. If you want clean, tidy and orderly... try Germany... don't really care? Mexico might just be fine. Want to get wasted on booze and lay naked on the beach? I'd stay away from Saudi Arabia. Get the picture?

Each and every Mexican, and region of Mexico, is as different as each and every gringo and region of the USA.

TENGOMIEDO - 9-5-2008 at 12:53 PM

Si Chuey, la Marcha de Justicia....No me hagas reir. Eso nunca va a pasar. El Presidente no tiene los huevos para hacer eso.

DENNIS - 9-5-2008 at 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TENGOMIEDO
Si Chuey, la Marcha de Justicia....No me hagas reir. Eso nunca va a pasar. El Presidente no tiene los huevos para hacer eso.

Nonsense. He's, I believe, doing his best against near impossible odds.
Hey Tengo...How about using English so everybody understands what you have to say. You want to habla Español, take it to the Spanish Language forum and jabber away.

gnukid - 9-5-2008 at 04:46 PM

Might want to follow up on this one cap'n...

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/09/05-3

Mexico Drug Plane Used For US 'Rendition' Flights: Report
MEXICO CITY - A private jet that crash-landed almost one year ago in eastern Mexico carrying 3.3 tons of cocaine had previously been used for CIA "rendition" flights, a newspaper report said here Thursday, citing documents from the United States and the European Parliament.

More about this plane used in drug trade.

http://www.madcowprod.com/01162008.html

[Edited on 9-5-2008 by gnukid]

BajaGringo - 9-5-2008 at 05:53 PM

That must be wrong.

We all know that corrupt government officials in kahoots with narcos ONLY happens south of the border.

Mango - 9-5-2008 at 08:37 PM

Grover, Your not saying the US government would ever do something like give chemical weapons to Sadam Hussain to fight Iran, import and sell crack cocaine to US citizens to fund black projects, and have anything to do with all the drugs getting into the US nowdays? No way.. Never.

Maybe it would be a good idea if we sold China some nuke secrets so they would be our friends; then, they could sell them to Pakistan.. Oh .. too late for that too. The blue dress got it that time.

{Putting my head back into the sand}

You know there is a conspiracy about "conspiracy" being in the dictionary.. because there is no such thing as conspiracy.. right?

Con = with
Piracy = anything for a buck

Capitalism rocks so hard sometimes! :lol:

Ok... this post was so far over the top.. (Checking out the window for the guys in black suits now.) :cool:

Ok, to set this all straight. If I were president of Mexico. I'd be sitting on a beach sipping a c-cktail.

LOSARIPES - 10-26-2008 at 06:21 AM

If I were president of Mexico, I'd be corrupt and would have succumbed to local and international pressure..... or I would have been shot to death.
Just the title statement of the subject posting suggests an impossible propossition.
Change and fix the problems of Mexico just because you are president, with all your good intentions?... sometimes we can't solve even our family problems no matter how hard we try and how well intended we may be. -Dr. PHil-
Except for the drug problem, Mexico is slowly making progress and fixing some of its problems -not all of them- Mexico can live with its imperfections and "continue trying to be happy".... "You don't fail until you stop trying" (someone said that) and the fun is in the trying. (I said that)
The drug thing is hurting: Killings, insecurity, costs, etc. Will Mexico ever win the war? I don't think so. Would legalization fix the problem? Maybe. Will the US curb demand/consumption? Doubtful, very unlikely.
The other day, if I may... a friend of mine was saying: The only way to stop drug trafficking is that the UN steps in and requires that all countries produce their own stuff. Grow and make your own. Regulate the hell out of it and ease on prohibition. That's what he said.
So that's a combination of options: Legalization, distribution and consumption.

So, having "solved" the drug problem, we can move forward with being president.

Mexico should align with the US block and break away from Castro/Chavez/Morales dictators. Clearly and categorically. Hell with them. No vacillating positions under any excuse. As a defined US supporter -not a puppet-, Mexico should be able to "collect" additional benefits from the US and the western block to integrate its development style to that of the US. Break away from the "third world country"mentality and channel all of its resources to modernization and social improvement:
1- Heavy capital investment in areas of social interest. Immediately.
1a) Open for foreign investment. Remove land ownership barriers to foster construction and tourism development. This goes in hand with...
2.-Job creation programs to retain productive population within borders at the same time that temporary work programs can be worked with other countries -there is a successful program with Spain currently which can be expanded-
3.-Heavy investment in the agricultural sector to become independent on the basic food items: corn, beans, livestock.
4.-Technical education with a purpose. More agricultural engineers and less lawyers, and philosophers. -nothing personal there-... just for a while...
5.-Social education: Birth control; environmental consciousness; ethics; moral; human rights;
6.-Continue with the modernization of Pemex to reach an energy self sufficiency level within a relatively short period of time.
7.- Work the UNAM (Universidad Autonoma de Mexico) on a plan to prepare future public administrators focused on ethics and moral.
8.-"Infiltrate" fully educated and trained new mentality individuals in all key areas of public administration to educate and set examples: Police, hacienda and bureaucracy in general.
9.-Gradually remove or regulate existing negative elements from mass media that sicken and misguide our youth: Telenovelas; cheap uneducated TV programs that target uneducated social class to keep them cheap.

To accomplish all this, or just to get the ball rolling, it would require a well orchestrated plan, as a complot or a conspiracy. That would take "out of the box" people. People from anywhere in the world... it would be fun to watch...

There are my 5 cents.

CaboRon - 10-26-2008 at 07:26 AM

You've got my vote ...

Well thought out,

CaboRon

Packoderm - 10-26-2008 at 07:44 AM

As for judging Mexico, I'd leave that to the people of Mexico. If the manana culture is so much more desirable than efficient infrastructure and investment in societal concerns, the people will vote by living happily in Mexico. A Mexican moving out of Mexico is a vote of no confidence. Right now, approximately 10% of Mexicans are living in the U.S. Other than the U.S.'s economy tanking so badly, what could possibly make them all want to move back? I think Mexico would have to build some German style efficiency and some prosperity in order for that to happen - not more manana culture or whatever it is that is so impossible for gringos to understand.