BajaNomad - Baja California is Northern Baja, Baja Norte an OK distinction????

Baja California is Northern Baja, Baja Norte an OK distinction????

BajaBad - 9-10-2008 at 06:45 AM

Argh.

This is not a grammar question or fact question - know that Baja California is the correct name for state north of Guerrero Negro, Baja California Sur refers to the state south of GN dividing line... And that The Baja California Peninsula or "Lower California" are the only two correct, official names for the entire peninsula.

The issue is in writing about Baja - for those new to the Peninsula, not long-time, experienced travelers with an encyclopedic knowledge of the area (like quite a few nomads!) - it is extremely confusing to say 'Baja California' and mean northern Baja. Most - if not all newbies would think I was referring to the entire Peninsula.

Sooooooooooo - is it so 'wrong' so to speak, to clearly state the correct, official names (above), and then refer to Northern Baja as Baja Norte, Southern Baja as Baja Sur, so as to clearly denote there are two states/parts to Baja, south and north. :?:

Or is this another 'nails on a chalkboard' issue for some?

BajaBad
www.vivalabaja.com

Bruce R Leech - 9-10-2008 at 06:55 AM

the Baja California peninsula. has 2 states, Baja California Sur, and Baja California. if it is confusing to you readers then refer to Baja California as the state of Baja California.

vandenberg - 9-10-2008 at 07:26 AM

Hey Bruce,
Thanks,
That sure clears it up. :biggrin:

gnukid - 9-10-2008 at 07:30 AM

we always say 'otro lado' for the next town...

Bajajorge - 9-10-2008 at 08:18 AM

Just call it BCN and BCS. :rolleyes:

David K - 9-10-2008 at 08:41 AM

A) Baja California (Lower California) = The peninsula and area south from the California, USA border.

The peninsula was the original California, named by the Spanish who believed it to be an island. When it was discovered to be a peninsula, the land Spain claimed north from the peninsula was known as Alta (Upper) California.

Eventually, the two parts of California were known as Alta California and Baja California. When the Americans purchased Alta California after the Mexican War, 'Alta' was dropped from the name. The Mexican territory was Baja California and later divided into two political regions at the 28º parallel.

B) Baja California = The name of the Mexican state which is the part of Baja California between the USA border and the 28º parallel line of latitude. Often refered to as 'Baja California Norte' when discussing both states of the peninsula.

C) Baja California Sur = The name of the Mexican state which is the part of Baja California south from the 28º line. Statehood was gained in 1974, shortly after the completion of the Transpeninsular Highway, the first paved road to connect the northern half with the southern half of the peninsula.

BajaBad - 9-10-2008 at 10:00 AM

David K I can see why you are a 'platinum' nomad :tumble:

The 'alta' and 'baja' are clearly understood now.

Will update book (and cra*& , 100 pages will not be much fun) but there is still a lot of discrepancy... just trying to decide on best way to denote --

BCS - Baja California Sur -- correct, everyone agrees
BCN - Baja California Norte ??? I know this is commonly used. Yet if we keep to official names, shouldn't it be 'BC' - Baja California? And of course, that could be confused with British Columbia...

Also, Baja Sur is used all the time... and no one says that it is 'incorrect' - but if we keep to official, correct designations, shouldn't it always be Baja California Sur. :rolleyes:

If Baja Sur is common and OK to use, why not Baja Norte? Both are not 'officially' correct, but accurately (and unoffensively) refer to geographic areas/states.

Argh. Just trying to clarify my thoughts & rationale -- BajaBad
www.vivalabaja.com

Pappy Jon - 9-10-2008 at 02:38 PM

The grammer police has been called.

Baja California Sur is OK.
Baja California norte is OK.
Baja California Norte is not OK.

Capitalize the name of a State or accepted region (North America for instance).

If using sur or norte to point to a direction it does not get capitalized.

Another example is southern California and northern California. Neither are states (yet), but are frequently used designations.

[Edited on 9-10-2008 by Pappy Jon]

Being Correct

MrBillM - 9-10-2008 at 05:24 PM

Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte.

Incorrect enough ? If not, let me know.

On the long list of importance, this doesn't make the first Million.

Baja Norte

Baja Norte

Baja Norte

Baja Norte

And so forth.

vandenberg - 9-10-2008 at 05:27 PM

William,

You're not imbibing, are you ? :biggrin:

DENNIS - 9-10-2008 at 05:30 PM

Well, what do you think, Bill? Is Baja Norte acceptible?

Baja Norte

MrBillM - 9-10-2008 at 05:39 PM

OK by me.

Wait, is that OK ?

Given the state of the English Language today, this could be a swamp.

DENNIS - 9-10-2008 at 05:42 PM

Ed's right. You're seriously into it.

Ken Cooke - 9-10-2008 at 06:03 PM

To me, Baja Norte almost seems to connotate Alta California. This could be confusing..

Alta California ?

MrBillM - 9-10-2008 at 06:12 PM

I guess it's easy for some to get confused. Personally, I haven't met ANYONE who ever confused Baja Norte with Alta California, but I suppose they're out there.

"Alta California" ? Would that be North of San Francisco ? Wait, that would mean Los Angeles was in Baja California. Come to think of it, walking the streets in L.A., you would think that to be the case.

What about Baja Oklahoma ?

Ken Cooke - 9-10-2008 at 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Come to think of it, walking the streets in L.A., you would think that to be the case.

Which is why I like it here so much. I got **FREE** Spanish lessons from my co-workers (Mexican & Nicaraguan), and at work today, I got to hear about ways of preparing Pollo Mole with **PEANUT BUTTER**.

I love it here, and I don't ever want to leave...except maybe to travel "The Baja."

Pappy Jon - 9-10-2008 at 06:47 PM

The heck with you. I'm having a Pacifico. :bounce:

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte Baja Norte.

Incorrect enough ? If not, let me know.

[Edited on 9-11-2008 by Pappy Jon]

DENNIS - 9-10-2008 at 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
What about Baja Oklahoma ?

Who wrote that book?

DENNIS - 9-10-2008 at 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke
Pollo Mole with **PEANUT BUTTER**.

Let me know when they perfect the mole and jelly sandwich.

Hook - 9-10-2008 at 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBad
David K I can see why you are a 'platinum' nomad :tumble:

The 'alta' and 'baja' are clearly understood now.

Stick around a little more................the platinum status will become clearer.

But if you're interested in selling books, he's yer man.

El Jefe - 9-10-2008 at 09:13 PM

At Berkeley I took a California History class. Most people in the bay area didn't think much of us heathens from southern California, uncultured as we were. The professor of the class once refered to the two regions of our fair state as Superior California and Inferior California. He may have been joking. I wasn't sure.

Mango - 9-10-2008 at 11:01 PM

Wait.. lets not leave Jefferson State out of all this fun..

Seriously though.. I think Baja California norte.. or use in context of the "northern state of Baja California."

I think the whole issue is worth a note in the preface just to inform readers of what is what and lay down the accepted terms. Then possibly go ahead and make up your own terms (with a disclaimer as to the accepted terms) like BCN and BCS.

Funny.. some people just have a hard time with it.. I was trying to send some money to Baja California via western union a while back...

After informing the girl behind the counter that I wanted to send money to Mexico, she began entering data into the computer and then told me, "There is no state called Baja California"

I said, "Yes, there is.."

"No, .. I have it right here.. Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Connecticut, etc.. no Baja California."

"Wrong country" , I said. :lol:

LOSARIPES - 9-11-2008 at 05:41 AM

Do not be confused............ just read Platinum David K above. He has it right. I after reading David you are still confused, read it again.... and learn it!
just kidding......
Have fun

Pappy Jon - 9-11-2008 at 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MangoFunny.. some people just have a hard time with it.. I was trying to send some money to Baja California via western union a while back...

After informing the girl behind the counter that I wanted to send money to Mexico, she began entering data into the computer and then told me, "There is no state called Baja California"

I said, "Yes, there is.."

"No, .. I have it right here.. Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Connecticut, etc.. no Baja California."

"Wrong country" , I said. :lol:

Reminds me of a column in New Mexico Magazine called "One of our 50 is missing." Here are two examples. There is a reason New Mexico finds it necessary to include the letters "USA" on it's license plates.
==================
Zipping Along:
When Chris Linn, of Santa Fe, recently tried to set up a second e-mail account with Yahoo, he was tossed some curveballs by the Internet giant. “On the sign-in page, they request the country of origin and a zip code, so I selected ‘United States’ and entered ‘87505,’ a Santa Fe zip code,” Linn says. He immediately received an error message stating that “the zip is not for the country selected.”

“I tried ‘87501’ and ‘87504’ [both Santa Fe zip codes], but received the same error message each time,” Linn says. “So, thinking of your ‘One of Our Fifty Is Missing’ column, I changed the country selection to ‘Mexico.’ Bingo! No error message, and the signup was complete! Perhaps their last web programming was outsourced to another country. Or perhaps knowledge of the 50 states is not a job prerequisite.”
=====================
Towering Faux Pas:
J. O. Johnson, of Organ, had to do a double-take when poring over Time magazine’s latest book, Portraits of the Planet: Nature’s Wonders(Twenty-First Century Books, 2008). Showcased in the volume were some of Earth’s most stunning geographical gems, including an expansive half-page aerial photograph of Ship Rock, in northwestern New Mexico.

But Johnson got another storyline after reading the caption: “Rising above it—Shiprock in Mexico, a sacred site to the Navajo, towers 1,583 feet over the surface of the high desert plain.”

“The photo is well laid out and stunning to see. But the amazing thing is (according to Time) that this edifice has been relocated without anyone being told,” Johnson says. “I was traveling through the Gallup area just two weeks earlier, and had I known that they were going to move Ship Rock, I would have taken many pictures to remember it by.”

capt. mike - 9-11-2008 at 06:54 AM

hahahaha!!!!!!
i am with Bill on this one..... who cares?? call it what you want.
call it "the" baja.

talk about an innane subject.

last on the importance header of my recent issue of who gives a crap magazine!

BajaBad - 9-11-2008 at 07:06 AM

Ok, another battle lost -- up at 6 a.m. and all references to 'Baja Sur' have been corrected to Baja California Sur, all references to Baja California (after the intro section where both states are clearly defined and explained) have been updated to Baja California Norte... and now will go back and correct to Baja California norte.

You people are no fun

Just for kicks, and so everyone can sleep better at night... myself included, all mentioning of 'the Baja' has been changed to 'Baja' (weeks ago), though I thought it was kind-of cute. Again, you people are no fun.

... yes Mr. Ken Cooke, I did catch the 'the Baja' jibe

Last but not least, I actually think 'La Baja' as in Viva La Baja - is more correct than 'Baja' as in 'Viva Baja'. Baja - translated as 'lower' in this instance - is a noun, 'lower' is a place.

ok, time for a nap! Appreciate the comments

BajaBad
www.vivalabaja.com

David K - 9-11-2008 at 07:53 AM

Or, like this: Baja California (norte)... so there is no confusion that 'norte' is part of the official name... just there to define which half of the peninsula. :light:

BajaBad - 9-11-2008 at 08:09 AM

Perfect and you all are my morning heros... except Capt'n Mike... who maybe should avoid clicking on subject headers of Baja Nomad email threads that he may find the topic to be 'innane' - makes good sense to me :tumble:

BajaBad
www.vivalabaja.com

Being Correct

MrBillM - 9-11-2008 at 09:19 AM

Those who are concerned need to go to work on the Surfers. Doing a cursory search, there seem to be a LOT of Surfer sites that use the dreaded "Baja Norte" term. This corruption should not stand.

I have to say that I'm somewhat surprised to find the foremost promoter of "Shell Island" concerned with correct terminology.

Baja Oklahoma ??

No idea if it WAS a Book. Maybe an original screenplay. 1988 movie with Lesley Ann Warren and Peter Coyote.

Why sewers run downhill

Dave - 9-11-2008 at 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Baja Oklahoma ??

Baja Oklahoma is texas.

Ask any Okie. :smug:

Pappy Jon - 9-11-2008 at 10:02 AM

Quote:

Baja Oklahoma is texas.
Ask any Okie. :smug:

Now that's funny.

Pappy Jon - 9-11-2008 at 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Those who are concerned need to go to work on the Surfers. Doing a cursory search, there seem to be a LOT of Surfer sites that use the dreaded "Baja Norte" term. This corruption should not stand.

No it shouldn't. We need to educate the world into the proper use of Baja California norte! And we should set the example right here. :cool:

capt. mike - 9-11-2008 at 02:25 PM

except Capt'n Mike :?:

aw come on BB. take a ride with me some time and i'll show you the baja from an entirely new perspective! :spingrin:

gnukid - 9-11-2008 at 02:44 PM

Mike

Its appropriate and polite to know the name of the region you visit or refer to in publication. Its rude to Mexico and the People of Mexico to disrespect the issue of their correct name. Its not a joke, its not funny, you are being rude to not only BB but to the people of Baja and all us here.

So go ahead and make fun, and say it doesn't matter. It does matter and it matters greatly to us that BB is making the effort to be correct according to the History of Baja California.

Your comments are insulting, stop it.

I've never called it the baja

Bajajack - 9-11-2008 at 03:24 PM

I usually just call it "The T**let" :lol:

Crude Rude Prude ?

MrBillM - 9-11-2008 at 05:10 PM

Baja Norte. Baja Norte. Baja Norte.

There.

We should contract for a poll among Mexicans to see how they view this important subject and adjust our acts accordingly. I'm sure that it's right up there with Social Welfare and Oil Revenues. Some things are SO important they can't be ignored.

How about "Baja Mexico" ? Awhile back there was the same sort of nonsense over that term with the same pomposity regarding Correctness and Offense. The Mexicans who were using that term on T-Shirts and elsewhere were obviously renegades with a lack of appreciation for their correct heritage.

Maybe the same ones here ?

AND, I KNOW that Baja Oklahoma is Texas. I saw the movie more than once.

David K - 9-11-2008 at 06:30 PM

Let's be clear.... People in Baja California call the place 'Baja' or 'La Baja' all the time! It has become so well known, that the word/ name 'Baja' can live alone without 'California' being attached !

Can you see this lable of Mexicali Beer, brewed in Baja California (in Tecate actually), and purchased in Baja California (at the Half Way House)?

It says it is from: Baja, Mexico ("La cerveza de Baja, Mexico") :light:

[Edited on 9-12-2008 by David K]

Rosario-06 079r.JPG - 48kB

BajaBad - 9-12-2008 at 08:28 AM

You are all too incredibly kind (Gnukid +) and no worries!!!

Capt'n Mike & me (yes... it should be 'I') had it out in a full one on one U2U battle... now I'm just waiting for when I get to go for a ride in his plane :tumble:

Cheers, BB

any time you want to go BB

capt. mike - 9-12-2008 at 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBad
You are all too incredibly kind (Gnukid +) and no worries!!!

Capt'n Mike & me (yes... it should be 'I') had it out in a full one on one U2U battle... now I'm just waiting for when I get to go for a ride in his plane :tumble:

Cheers, BB

just don't bring Gnew Gkid. he's no fun and WAAAAYYYY toooo sensitive. i have no time for whiney types. :lol:

DENNIS - 9-12-2008 at 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
AND, I KNOW that Baja Oklahoma is Texas. I saw the movie more than once.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Baja-Oklahoma/Dan-Jenkins/e...

Baja Norte OK in the Future ?

MrBillM - 9-12-2008 at 09:27 AM

Since the current attitude regarding language is based upon the degree of common usage, those of us who accept the term, have a duty to spread its usage until it becomes one of those "Idiomatic" terms that arrive at respectability.

I'll do my part.

Baja Norte.

Baja Norte.

Baja Norte.

BajaBad - 9-13-2008 at 08:00 AM

You go MrBillM -- and if you had had your way months... years ago, I wouldn't have had to make all those updates, or even start this email thread in the first place!! :bounce:

On a more serious note - our thoughts are with all Baja 2008 storm survivors (Mulege).

Hoping to be Baja bound in 2009, BB