BajaNomad - Propogating salt cedars (pines)

Propogating salt cedars (pines)

Santiago - 9-20-2008 at 09:58 PM

I want to propogate some cuttings but I only am in Baja about 4 or 5 times a year for a week at a time. Can I put them in a 5 gallon bucket of water and leave them or do I need to take them with me? Any problems at the border?

Paulina - 9-20-2008 at 10:39 PM

I don't think you can take them home. Maybe Doc will start some for you in his greenhouse.

I got secondary for a stateside Christmas wreath that was attached to my truck. Even though it originated in the U.S. their reasoning was that a bad bug could have landed on it while it was in Baja...

I'd like some salt pines too, so I'm anxious to hear what you come up with.

P.<*)))>{

mtgoat666 - 9-21-2008 at 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago
I want to propogate some cuttings but I only am in Baja about 4 or 5 times a year for a week at a time. Can I put them in a 5 gallon bucket of water and leave them or do I need to take them with me? Any problems at the border?

salt cedars are an invasive plant, and we as a nation spend 10s of millions trying to eradicate it from areas where it has destroyed habitat. wanting to grow salt cedar is about the same as wanting to grow med fruit fly as a pet bug.

btw, it's not a pine.

Bwana_John - 9-21-2008 at 07:50 AM

Quote:

Propogating salt cedars (pines)

Ummm... are you talking about the genus Tamarix?

They arnt pines. They do provide good shade, but the steal the water from everything else around them. They can be dirty and buggy also.

David K - 9-21-2008 at 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Gee wiz, we have been through this before... The salt cedars used in Baja for shade along the beach are NOT the 'bad ones' messing up the habitat in the U.S.... Do a search on Nomad to read other posts on Salt Cedars, Nuevo Mazatlan, etc.

806 007r.JPG - 26kB

mtgoat666 - 9-21-2008 at 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

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dk,
you are simply wrong. you were wrong on this before, and wrong on it now.

David K - 9-21-2008 at 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

dk,
you are simply wrong. you were wrong on this before, and wrong on it now.

Facts, Mr. Mt. Goat 666... I really think you would like to debate based on facts, not emotions... Not from me, but from desert expert Barry A and plant expert Mexitron in a thread called Baja Gardens in the Baja Home Building and Living forum, from last June:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
from Barry A in a reply to jdtrotter who also argued with me that I was 'wrong' about the Baja Salt Cedar:

posted on 6-8-2008 at 12:05 PM

Diane------

I think you are out on a limb on this one (besides seeming hyper-sensitive to ANYTHING David says) --------there are numerous types of Tamerisk, I believe, and these particular type (as ID'ied from David's Photos) are NOT the type invading the river and stream channels throughout the southwest, I don't believe. And yes, they are STILL being planted for wind breaks in the southwest, despite their voracious appetite for water----in the Borrego Valley, for one, tho they do cause controversary as the water table in Borrego Springs is continueing to drop. They do have some very unique characteristics that make them desirable under certain circumstances, as David laid out.

I certainly agree with you that the river tamerisk are a huge pain, and a severe problem, but they are NOT the tree-type of tamerisk (Salt Cedar), and were introduced from abroad.

My frame of reference is my job irradicating the river tamerisks within certain National Parks and Monuments way back when I was doing that sort of thing (1970's) as a Park Ranger/River Use Manager------but we were not very successful.

Please feel free to correct me if you have other information.

Barry
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

from Mexitron, later in that thread:

posted on 6-9-2008 at 08:31 PM

DK--the Salt Cedar you are talking about I believe is Tamarisk aphylla which generally isn't as invasive as its cousin the smaller Tamarisk ramoisissima (a noxious plant over-running ecosystems from Baja into Texas!). However both , as well as the rest of the 50 or so species, are native to Eurasia. They were planted in Baja the same way figs and grapes were planted in the early missions down there--people brought them in.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My reply after reading looking at the link Mexitron provided:

Great links Steve...

Here is one line that the Baja Nomads should read regarding any harm caused by Luis planting the Nuevo Mazatlan forest in the late 60's-early 70's:

"Unlike the deciduous Tamarix spp., which have become serious weed
species in the Southwest, Athel tamrisk seldom escapes cultivation
and, therefore, rarely becomes a problem"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Photos of the Baja Salt Cedars (also called Salt Pines) at Nuevo Mazatlan are on this web page I made to show Nuevo Mazatlan: http://vivabaja.com/nm

Have a nice day!

David K - 9-21-2008 at 09:37 AM

Santiago, placing a cutting (branch) of a salt cedar in the soil and watering them with well water is how Luis grew the forest at Nuevo Mazatlan in the late 60's early 70's.

That variety of salt cedar 'does not escape cultivation' which means grows only where you plant them and doesn't spread about and take over like the bad one.

vandenberg - 9-21-2008 at 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

That variety of salt cedar 'does not escape cultivation' which means grows only where you plant them and doesn't spread about and take over like the bad one.

Thanks David.
I knew there had to be a Nomad who knew how to read. :biggrin:

[Edited on 9-21-2008 by vandenberg]

Santiago - 9-21-2008 at 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Santiago, placing a cutting (branch) of a salt cedar in the soil and watering them with well water is how Luis grew the forest at Nuevo Mazatlan in the late 60's early 70's.

Can I do this on the first day of a week's visit, water every day and then leave for 2 or 3 months and it will take?

I do have 2 fairly large ones behind the cabin and over the last year I've pruned them to tree-shape rather than bush-shape. They seem to take the pruning without any problems.
There are some negatives like constant needles dropping and they shed salt like crazy, rusting any metal around them. I'ld be happy to change them out if anyone can suggest something that will grow fast, provide shade year-round, not need weekly or monthly watering. What about Eucaliptys (sp)? Some had been growing in the camp but they are dead now.

Bwana_John - 9-21-2008 at 02:24 PM

Quote:

is Tamarisk aphylla which generally isn't as invasive
Athel tamrisk seldom escapes cultivation

Quote:

does not escape cultivation'

Quote:

I knew there had to be a Nomad who knew how to read

And... who would that be? :rolleyes:

[Edited on 9-21-2008 by Bwana_John]

Barry A. - 9-21-2008 at 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bwana_John

Quote:

is Tamarisk aphylla which generally isn't as invasive
Athel tamrisk seldom escapes cultivation

Quote:

does not escape cultivation'

Quote:

I knew there had to be a Nomad who knew how to read

And... who would that be? :rolleyes:

[Edited on 9-21-2008 by Bwana_John]

ONLY THE PHANTOM KNOWS-------

David K - 9-21-2008 at 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago

Quote:

Jim, I really think you will need to have someone water them at least once a week to keep them alive until their roots grow into the sea water or watever moisture is under them.

This is where a battery operated drip system will allow a healthy growth of the tree(s) you plant (better still in jdtrotter's opinion is to pay a kid if there were any around to water you tree regularly and hope he/ she actually does). Of course, you and I know the town is 4 miles away, so that is not likely.

Doc is very savvy on what will grow there and what will grow best... Since there already are salt cedars growing at Gecko (and make excellent shade trees on the edge of the beach), I would guess that Doc already has picked the best?

The needles by-the-way actually provide a clean, dust free carpet under the trees. They also repell most insects who hate the salt... the dripping is only in the humid months, as well.

Best of luck to your Gecko landscaping!

Mexitron - 9-21-2008 at 07:35 PM

mtgoat--You are making a mountain out of a molehill--do some research and you will learn that Tamarix aphylla is basically sterile in the Southwest. How many Tamarix aphylla have you seen in the Santo Thomas Valley that have spread from the trees lining the highway there?

If people want a shade tree and are willing to live with the consequences of their water depleting habits then I say let them.

larryC - 9-22-2008 at 02:39 PM

Santiago
I planted some of those salt pines at my place near Gecko, and Abraham told me at that time to take some cuttings from branches about 1/2" diameter, then stand them up in a plastic container with an inch or two of water and let them sit till there are tiny little buds on them, then plant them. Mine took about 10 days to 2 weeks before I saw the buds, I planted them and they took off. Another plant that does well down there is the Mexican Bird of Paradise, grows from seeds but is a relatively fast grower and is green and has yellow flowers. You probably can get the seeds from Abraham, or if not I have a bunch from my plants.
Hope this helps,
Larry

Paulina - 9-22-2008 at 02:55 PM

Larry,
How often, if at all, did you have to water them once you transplanted them into the ground?

Thanks,
P.

aha baja - 9-22-2008 at 06:07 PM

Doc gave me about 30 Mexican bird of paradice seeds a few years back. Managed to get 3 adult plants and still have about 20 seeds left. They are beautiful and unusual in apperance. Yellow flowers with red stamens, that look kind of like a cape honeysuckle. the leaves are green and look similar to a jacoranda.

Skip_Mac - 9-22-2008 at 06:40 PM

Invasive species destroy the landscape and environment we have come here to love. For me, I want nothing to do with arrogant immigrants importing their homeland species to another biome.

Sorry if my feelings seem harsh, n=but the well meaning introduction of pike to Davis lake on the upper reaches of the Sacramento River, nearly destroyed the salmon fishery in the 1990's. It soc=st the taxpayer millions and millions to stop the infestation. If you arrogantly decide to change an environment by introducing a specifically invasive species, Well, I can only wish that YOU PAY the total cost of your ignorance.

Santiago - 9-22-2008 at 08:18 PM

Larry and aha: thanks - I'll check with Abraham next trip.

Paulina - 9-22-2008 at 09:10 PM

On my first trip to Bahia almost 30 years ago I made the mistake of setting my cot up under one of those trees, thinking it was going to provide shade for my afternoon siesta. Not until it started to rain on me did I realize there was a reason no one else was so smart.

My point is, look how big those trees where back then. They obviously had been there a long time.

We are not introducing these trees. As Soulpatch said, the trees were already there. They are through out the town and have been for many years. There is no ground water where I plan to plant cuttings. I don't believe there is any threat to ground water or other native plants where Doc has planted his at Camp Gecko or where Santiago plans to plant his.

I understand your concern Skip Mac, and when I get them planted you are more than welcome to come and make an environmental study at my place and if you can show me where I am harming the indigenous plant life of Bahia de Los Angeles I will personally rip them out.

P<*)))>{

David K - 9-22-2008 at 09:23 PM

The trees at Nuevo Mazatlan and elsewhere where people have planted those cuttings have not 'spread out' to unwanted areas... That species of salt cedar stays put... It thrives in salt water where no other shade tree will grow... it is a blessing to the people and animals of the desert gulf coast of Baja.... the Baja salt cedar... Tamarix aphylla... Thank God for creating a perfect tree for such harsh conditions!

Skip mac and mtgoat666, you keep bringing up ANOTHER variety that is a problem plant and we all agree that other tamarisk is a problem plant... The one Santiago wants to plant is NOT a problem plant on the coast of Baja... it is a welcomed gift... brought to Baja long before any of us were born so it seems.

jeans - 9-22-2008 at 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paulina
On my first trip to Bahia almost 30 years ago I made the mistake of setting my cot up under one of those trees, thinking it was going to provide shade for my afternoon siesta. Not until it started to rain on me did I realize there was a reason no one else was so smart.
P<*)))>{

I know what you mean! I parked my truck/campershell under a canopy of salt cedars at Cielito Lindo. A heavy fog came in.....I couldn't believe the mess I had the next morning...all the dust caught in its leaves had rained down and was mud all over my tables, chairs and the truck. :mad:

wilderone - 9-23-2008 at 09:13 AM

The thousands of seeds are disbursed by wind and water to WHERE? Do you know where they land, and then sprout and take root? In some arroyo displacing native plants that the wildlife requires for food? tapping into the water reserves which might be supporting mesquite or palo verde or cacti? eventually choking animal migration routes in narrow canyons limiting foraging range? It produces no food for animals. The seeds will be disbursed, and you will not know the eventual effect on the environment - possibly in your lifetime - but altering the ecology nevertheless. Yes, there are plenty in Baja CA, and one can only wonder what might have been if not for the species that disrupts the balance of nature.

Barry A. - 9-23-2008 at 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
The thousands of seeds are disbursed by wind and water to WHERE? Do you know where they land, and then sprout and take root? In some arroyo displacing native plants that the wildlife requires for food? tapping into the water reserves which might be supporting mesquite or palo verde or cacti? eventually choking animal migration routes in narrow canyons limiting foraging range? It produces no food for animals. The seeds will be disbursed, and you will not know the eventual effect on the environment - possibly in your lifetime - but altering the ecology nevertheless. Yes, there are plenty in Baja CA, and one can only wonder what might have been if not for the species that disrupts the balance of nature.

A question: Is it not the "bottom line" that "change" is the dominant factor in any ecology-------we (plants, animals, Geography, etc. ) are all part of and influence that "change", es verdad? I am thinking that we spend entirely too much mental energy and money in trying to freeze the changes that naturally (in it's broadest sense) are happening around us. But I will agree that we MUST remain aware, and head off SOME changes that are obviously threatening our lives as we know it-----I am not sure the earth really cares, tho.

Barry

wilderone - 9-23-2008 at 10:16 AM

Yes - human inhabitants, the cattle we put out to graze on the meadow destroying the native plants, trampling stream beds, polluting water sources; the acres of agriculture, pesticides, fertilizers, dams, man-made lakes, mining, human caused fires, overfishing, eradicating animal species, etc - all continually change and alter the natural landscape and it is inevitable. But wouldn't a little education and awareness of the consequences of our actions beyond the immediate or personal arena be of some value - individually - one by one - all over the world - to keep the earth - our home - healthier? Why wouldn't a palapa do for shade? Accept the land for what it is instead of causing irreversible change? Have we learned nothing in the past 50 years with the detrimental affects, knowledge of them and data readily available? I don't know that the earth has emotions to "care", but obviously suffers from insult, and we are all dependent on a healthy earth to sustain us. We have the resources to do better than we did in the past.

Barry A. - 9-23-2008 at 10:31 AM

Wilderone------true, but can't we moderate the actual implimentation of these 100's of ideas that the ecologists come up with claiming that there are dire consequences if we don't implement immediately? The economy of the world is at stake----progress (as I know it), even---------the lack of drilling is only the latest folly that we now are facing the consequences of. The consequences of "drilling" were way over blown by the ecologists, and many of us know that----thus we pay little attention to this ranting and raving.

I know that strong rhetoric is often the ONLY thing that gets attention, but that same "strong rhetoric" also turns many of us OFF, so that little gets done.

It is a dilemma, of course.

Obviously, just my thoughts, and maybe way off base.

Barry

Santiago - 9-23-2008 at 11:01 AM

All right already - enough. I will personalyy cut down every single frigging one I meet - I will be the anti-Johnny-salt-pine-seed of baja. I will build my shade with my own honest labor, hewn from the natural materials at hand. Of course, I will have to get the HOA's approval to remove an existing tree - that ought to be fun. Oh wait - I know - I will use the argument that they are an introduced species - that will work. Just as long as migra doesn't use the same on me.....

larryC - 9-23-2008 at 01:36 PM

Paulina
Don't remember how much we watered them in the begining, but probably once or twice a week.
Wilderone
If your theory were correct and the seeds were all over then wouldn't you expect to find wild salt pines just popping up in the desert around Bahia and other places? I see none of that around Bahia, or anywhere else for that matter. I'm not arguing the merits of planting foreign species, just that I see no evidence that what you are proposing is actually happening, and the salt pine has been around long enough and is fast growing enough to be readily evident if it was propogateing to any extent.
Oh well enough typing from about this subject.
Larry

Paulina - 9-23-2008 at 01:49 PM

Thank you Larry. It sounds like we'll have to wait until the summer months when we're there to water them.

Santiago, make sure the wind is blowing to the south when you cut down the trees. If the powers that be in town hear your chainsaw you're toast. No cutting of anything alive or dead, and that goes for collecting too. Don't worry, if they throw you in the carsa, I'll bring you food and beer. I'm good at that.

P<*)))>{

mtgoat666 - 9-23-2008 at 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by larryC

If your theory were correct and the seeds were all over then wouldn't you expect to find wild salt pines just popping up in the desert around Bahia and other places? I see none of that around Bahia, or anywhere else for that matter. I'm not arguing the merits of planting foreign species, just that I see no evidence that what you are proposing is actually happening, and the salt pine has been around long enough and is fast growing enough to be readily evident if it was propogateing to any extent.
Oh well enough typing from about this subject.
Larry

Think global, act local.

Anecdotal observations only substitute as evidence and reasoned scientific analysis in the minds of DK, and republicans that oppose environmental concepts on ideological grounds

Barry A. - 9-23-2008 at 03:40 PM

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Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Righttttttttt!!!! "Scientific" generalizatons or specifics always trump any personal experience or observations---------why am I not buying that???? Maybe because old science once put forth as "gospel" is often proven wrong, or misleading, later on.

Barry

mtgoat666 - 9-23-2008 at 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Righttttttttt!!!! "Scientific" generalizatons or specifics always trump any personal experience or observations---------why am I not buying that???? Maybe because old science once put forth as "gospel" is often proven wrong, or misleading, later on.

Barry

Following a logical decision process is better than winging it on the basis of a hunch and some musty observations by grandpa :light:

mtgoat666 - 9-23-2008 at 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
it is a blessing to the people and animals of the desert gulf coast of Baja.... the Baja salt cedar... Tamarix aphylla... Thank God for creating a perfect tree for such harsh conditions!

did the animals tell you they thought it a blessing?
dk is dr dolittle, and a taxonomist assigning new species names :lol:

Barry A. - 9-23-2008 at 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Following a logical decision process is better than winging it on the basis of a hunch and some musty observations by grandpa :light:

Yeah, that is what my Harvard grad friend always says, too-----however it is he, following all his education and scientific analysis, that almost always loses money in the Stock Market, and it is me and my "grandpa" ideas that consistantly MAKES money there-----

Go figure?????

To each his own-----I tend to stick with what works for me, while listening to the very educated "wise ones" also, for new ideas, you know.

Barry

David K - 9-23-2008 at 07:03 PM

mtgoat, you're a dope... grow up, learn to appreciate what powers Nature has over this planet and adapt...

There is no man made global warming, the sky isn't falling, and the salt cedars in Baja do not spread about and pop up, by themselves... Humans place then where they are desired for shade and that is where they stay.

Also, think of things working out for a reason... and humans are not aliens, they are part of this planet as well... we belong here and here is what we need to live and thrive... that includes natural resources!

Cheers... I am going to enjoy tonight's new episode of 'House'!

DianaT - 9-23-2008 at 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
mtgoat, you're a dope... grow up, learn to appreciate what powers Nature has over this planet and adapt...

There is no man made global warming, the sky isn't falling, and the salt cedars in Baja do not spread about and pop up, by themselves... Humans place then where they are desired for shade and that is where they stay.

Also, think of things working out for a reason... and humans are not aliens, they are part of this planet as well... we belong here and here is what we need to live and thrive... that includes natural resources!

Cheers... I am going to enjoy tonight's new episode of 'House'!

And the one who calls for the group hug and we are the world song, calls another a "dope" Opps

Salt cedars---all varieties---are ill advised introductions to a native environment, IMHO.

But then again, I also believe that homo sapien sapien has not always done what is wise and beneficial for the survival of mother earth.

Diane

dtbushpilot - 9-24-2008 at 07:04 AM

It seems that this thread has gotten a little off track....whoda thunkit?......dt

Barry A. - 9-24-2008 at 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter

Quote:

-----Diane-------did you watch the PBS program NOVA last night???? All about Black Holes, and devastation totally beyond imagination, right here in our galaxcy, the Milky Way (plus billions of other Galaxys). I don't think that "Mother Earth" cares one whit what Homo Sapien does-------and science tells us that 99% + of all creatures and life on earth has gone extinct in the history of modern earth (as we understand it).

I find it a little bazaar that "we" (?) are proposing spending so much time, energy and money to try and offset what appears to be largely (97 + % ?) inevitable.

Just my ill-informed opinion, of course.

Barry

David K - 9-24-2008 at 07:42 AM

I am sorry mtgoat for calling you a 'dope' it just rhymmed and was tired of you not seeing the facts... Name calling goes against my rules... it is the first time despite the dozens of things you say about me, for which you have never retracted or apologized for...

Diane, you don't say a thing when I am addressed in a disrespectful way, do you?

Once again 'House' was great entertainment... on Fox, 8pm, Tue.

On another note, solar wind activity is at an all time low since we could monitor it... Been declining since 2006... Want to bet that the earth is in a cooling trend now?

DianaT - 9-24-2008 at 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

-----Diane-------did you watch the PBS program NOVA last night???? All about Black Holes, and devastation totally beyond imagination, right here in our galaxcy, the Milky Way (plus billions of other Galaxys). I don't think that "Mother Earth" cares one whit what Homo Sapien does-------and science tells us that 99% + of all creatures and life on earth has gone extinct in the history of modern earth (as we understand it).

I find it a little bazaar that "we" (?) are proposing spending so much time, energy and money to try and offset what appears to be largely (97 + % ?) inevitable.

Just my ill-informed opinion, of course.

Barry

Did not watch that particular show, but I do understand that extinction is a part of cycle of nature. Eventually I believe that humans will also become extinct, or as Kurt Vonnegut wrote about in one of my favorite books, we might all evolve into dolphins. Extinction is simply a part of nature.

But, wouldn't you agree that humans have made a real mess out of things in some areas at some times? They certainly have accelerated the extinction of many species and polluted their own envioronment.

Well, tis off topic. How to propogate salt cedars was the question, it was answered, and IMHO, they are unfortunately in Baja----certainly not the only non-native species there. And some people actually like the salt-cedars---

Diane

[Edited on 9-24-2008 by jdtrotter]

Bwana_John - 9-24-2008 at 08:31 AM

Quote:

Salt cedars---all varieties---are ill advised introductions to a native environment, IMHO.

They aint cedars, and they aint pines.
They do steal the water from natives.

Quote:

But then again, I also believe that homo sapien sapien has not always done what is wise and good for "Mother Earth"

"Mother Earth" dosent care. Mother Earth has had world wide enviorments in the past that would kill humans.

We need to do what is best for "Our Human Enviorment".
Plant diversity is good for "Our Enviorment". Much better than a little shade. That is why you shouldnt introduce anymore Tamerix to Baja.

There are many other native species that will provide shade.

[Edited on 9-24-2008 by Bwana_John]

DianaT - 9-24-2008 at 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bwana_John

"Mother Earth" dosent care. Mother Earth has had world wide enviorments in the past that would kill humans.

We need to do what is best for "Our Human Enviorment".
Plant diversity is good for "Our Enviorment". Much better than a little shade. That is why you shouldnt introduce anymore Tamerix to Baja.

There are many other native species that will provide shade.

[Edited on 9-24-2008 by Bwana_John]

Good point about Mother Earth---

Thanks
Diane

Barry A. - 9-24-2008 at 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bwana_John

Quote:

We need to do what is best for "Our Human Enviorment".
Plant diversity is good for "Our Enviorment". Much better than a little shade. That is why you shouldnt introduce anymore Tamerix to Baja.

There are many other native species that will provide shade.

[Edited on 9-24-2008 by Bwana_John]

I am seriously wondering just what "natural species" that can tolerate the salty environment that the Tamerix can you are referring too?

Barry

Santiago - 9-24-2008 at 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bwana_John
There are many other native species that will provide shade.
[Edited on 9-24-2008 by Bwana_John]

OK guys - can we please move from the theoretical to the practical?
1. Please give me names, the kind that will work when I walk into a plant store in Baja, for something I can put in the ground that will work for shade. Links to websites will be helpful. Pretend I'm really plant-stoopid, you won't be far wrong.
2. Then tell me how I'm to keep the existing water-thieving SOBs from ruining whatever you recomend.
3. Apparently, I can not legally cut them down.
4. I have a clause in my lease agreement that states that I'm to respect and protect the environment with particular respect to the flora. I like this clause as it speaks volumns regarding the way my landlord views the world. Not your average bear.
5. As an explanation for my plant ignorance: had a biology professor that clearly was a zoologist. He spent the entire semester on animals and on the last day of class he handed out a page that said the department required him to spend some time teaching botony. The paper simply said that plants were things that some animals eat when they were hungry and sit on when they wanted to rest. I blame him for coming so late to the plant side of things.
6. If I posted a story, with pictures, that I caught a 1200 pound blue marlin from shore on 10 pound test I wouldn't get 3 pages of responses. Look what you started, Fang.

Paulina - 9-24-2008 at 09:49 AM

Good points Santiago.

I guess there's the Mesquite tree...it's a water stealer, not sure if it's "native" or not. We could try that route. Maybe you could start another thread and see how many pages that will generate.

Oh well, as they say, The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I guess we'll have each other's company.

P<*)))>{

wilderone - 9-24-2008 at 02:13 PM

Olive, acacia, cashew, palm
not native, but not invasive or detrimenal (?). gleened from a quick internet search - by no means any serious research.
would be fun to do what you're trying to do. you might want to consider a soil test to determine ph; dig a deep hole with proper soil mixture to get it established; trade something to someone to water it when you're away in the first year to get it established.

mtgoat666 - 9-24-2008 at 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
Olive, acacia, cashew, palm

a lot of other trees out there that are far better than tamarisk: try palo verde, mesquite, desert ironwood, etc.

dk,
i imagine your backyard is full of tamarisk, right?

dtbushpilot - 9-24-2008 at 03:42 PM

Now we can hash and rehash all of the positive and negative aspects of Olive, acacia, cashew, palm, palo verde, mesquite, desert ironwood etc......think I'll grab some popcorn :lol:

.....dt

Barry A. - 9-24-2008 at 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
Olive, acacia, cashew, palm

a lot of other trees out there that are far better than tamarisk: try palo verde, mesquite, desert ironwood, etc.

dk,
i imagine your backyard is full of tamarisk, right?

????????? "palo Verde" as a "shade" tree?? You have GOT to be kidding, right??? (palo blanco are neat, tho)

"desert Ironwood"????? maybe for your grandkids grandkids, and if they are tiny people to boot.

Now I could go for "mesquite", but not a very fast grower, I don't think, and the thorns are really nasty.

I like the other ideas, tho----olives, cashews, acacias, etc. suggested by the other helpful person.

Barry

Paulina - 9-24-2008 at 04:20 PM

Mesquite is ok if you don't plant one next to any underground water supply, pila etc. I wonder how to get one started and how fast it grows?

You'd have to train it into a tree shape then be carefull you don't poke your eye out when crawling under there for shade, and have a pair of pliers always on hand for when the thorns find their way through the bottoms of your flip flops and into your feet.

Their thorns do make good toothpicks though, and the dead fall makes tasty wood for your bbq. (but don't let anyone see you collect it).

Hey, how'd all that wood get in there!?

Maybe we should make everyone happy and go with the artificial look that was so popular back in the 70s.

http://www.waterlesslandscapes.com/

The traveling cows won't eat it, at least not twice. No hostile take overs on the native plants and the only watering our fake trees would take would be when we waste good pila water washing the dirt off of them.

Maybe I should order a lawn too. The only lawn in Bahia. A fake lawn might help keep your sand problem at bay, Jim...

Ok, I'm done with this thread now.

P<*)))>{

On edit: I just had the thought that MAYBE I could get fake palm fronds so that my palapa would be forever green and maybe fireproof as well, and no bugs. Wow, what a concept.

[Edited on 24-9-2008 by Paulina]

David K - 9-24-2008 at 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
Olive, acacia, cashew, palm

a lot of other trees out there that are far better than tamarisk: try palo verde, mesquite, desert ironwood, etc.

dk,
i imagine your backyard is full of tamarisk, right?

If I lived on a beach in Baja, you bet!

I have observed the growing habbits of the 'salt pines'/ 'salt cedars'/ tamarisk trees at Nuevo Mazatlan the entire time since they were planted (almost 40 years)... There is nothing nicer than the shade they offer... and they all stayed exactly were they were planted... didn't spread out and the drink the salty water from the ocean... and there is no shortage there!

[Edited on 9-25-2008 by David K]

larryC - 9-26-2008 at 08:14 AM

Paulina
If you want to grow some Mesquite just come over to my place and grab a lump of horse poo (hate that horse) and take it back to your place, you'll get a mesquite or 2 out of it. Seems the local horses eat the leaves and pods and poop out the seeds. Too bad they don't do that with the salt pines then we would have shade all over.
Larry
PS DavidK, do the salt pines reproduce or are they sterile?

[Edited on 9-26-2008 by larryC]

Paulina - 9-26-2008 at 08:37 AM

Thanks Larry. I often see that horse cruising the road behind our place and have a feeling that horse is probably to blame for eating the Aloe plant Doc gave me down to the ground, and for doing this to my cactus:

I'm almost afraid to plant anything else, as it will only become that horse's salad bar.

P<*)))>{

bajalou - 9-26-2008 at 08:48 AM

Paulina, looks a lot like rabbits at work to me.

David K - 9-26-2008 at 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by larryC
Paulina
If you want to grow some Mesquite just come over to my place and grab a lump of horse poo (hate that horse) and take it back to your place, you'll get a mesquite or 2 out of it. Seems the local horses eat the leaves and pods and poop out the seeds. Too bad they don't do that with the salt pines then we would have shade all over.
Larry
PS DavidK, do the salt pines reproduce or are they sterile?

[Edited on 9-26-2008 by larryC]

Larry, please ask Mexitron (a plant expert/ landscaper) or Barry A (Desert Park Service) for the natural reproductive details... or just go back and look at what they posted or links they provided...

In Baja, one removes a cutting from an existing tree and grows it at the new desired location... Where I have watched the salt pines grow, they did not reproduce by themselves in new locations... ie. they didn't escape cultivation. So, no evidence that they could naturally reproduce from my observations over 40 years.

Here is from a web site Mexitron linked to:

"Unlike the deciduous Tamarix spp., which have become serious weed
species in the Southwest, Athel tamrisk seldom escapes cultivation
and, therefore, rarely becomes a problem"

Paulina - 9-26-2008 at 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalou
Paulina, looks a lot like rabbits at work to me.

No rabbits this time, as the cactus had huge bite marks and lots of horse hoof prints around the backside of our trailers. Although we did see quite a few Jack Rabbits this past summer, I don't think they were the guilty party.

P<*)))>{