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Santiago
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3512
Registered: 8-27-2003
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Propogating salt cedars (pines)
I want to propogate some cuttings but I only am in Baja about 4 or 5 times a year for a week at a time. Can I put them in a 5 gallon bucket of water
and leave them or do I need to take them with me? Any problems at the border?
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Paulina
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3810
Registered: 8-31-2002
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I don't think you can take them home. Maybe Doc will start some for you in his greenhouse.
I got secondary for a stateside Christmas wreath that was attached to my truck. Even though it originated in the U.S. their reasoning was that a bad
bug could have landed on it while it was in Baja...
I'd like some salt pines too, so I'm anxious to hear what you come up with.
P.<*)))>{
\"Well behaved women rarely make history.\" Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18417
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
I want to propogate some cuttings but I only am in Baja about 4 or 5 times a year for a week at a time. Can I put them in a 5 gallon bucket of water
and leave them or do I need to take them with me? Any problems at the border? |
salt cedars are an invasive plant, and we as a nation spend 10s of millions trying to eradicate it from areas where it has destroyed habitat. wanting
to grow salt cedar is about the same as wanting to grow med fruit fly as a pet bug.
btw, it's not a pine.
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Bwana_John
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| Quote: |
Propogating salt cedars (pines)
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Ummm... are you talking about the genus Tamarix?
They arnt pines. They do provide good shade, but the steal the water from everything else around them. They can be dirty and buggy also.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64859
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
I want to propogate some cuttings but I only am in Baja about 4 or 5 times a year for a week at a time. Can I put them in a 5 gallon bucket of water
and leave them or do I need to take them with me? Any problems at the border? |
salt cedars are an invasive plant, and we as a nation spend 10s of millions trying to eradicate it from areas where it has destroyed habitat. wanting
to grow salt cedar is about the same as wanting to grow med fruit fly as a pet bug.
btw, it's not a pine. |
Gee wiz, we have been through this before... The salt cedars used in Baja for shade along the beach are NOT the 'bad ones' messing up the habitat in
the U.S.... Do a search on Nomad to read other posts on Salt Cedars, Nuevo Mazatlan, etc.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18417
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
I want to propogate some cuttings but I only am in Baja about 4 or 5 times a year for a week at a time. Can I put them in a 5 gallon bucket of water
and leave them or do I need to take them with me? Any problems at the border? |
salt cedars are an invasive plant, and we as a nation spend 10s of millions trying to eradicate it from areas where it has destroyed habitat. wanting
to grow salt cedar is about the same as wanting to grow med fruit fly as a pet bug.
btw, it's not a pine. |
Gee wiz, we have been through this before... The salt cedars used in Baja for shade along the beach are NOT the 'bad ones' messing up the habitat in
the U.S.... Do a search on Nomad to read other posts on Salt Cedars, Nuevo Mazatlan, etc. |
dk,
you are simply wrong. you were wrong on this before, and wrong on it now.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64859
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
I want to propogate some cuttings but I only am in Baja about 4 or 5 times a year for a week at a time. Can I put them in a 5 gallon bucket of water
and leave them or do I need to take them with me? Any problems at the border? |
salt cedars are an invasive plant, and we as a nation spend 10s of millions trying to eradicate it from areas where it has destroyed habitat. wanting
to grow salt cedar is about the same as wanting to grow med fruit fly as a pet bug.
btw, it's not a pine. |
Gee wiz, we have been through this before... The salt cedars used in Baja for shade along the beach are NOT the 'bad ones' messing up the habitat in
the U.S.... Do a search on Nomad to read other posts on Salt Cedars, Nuevo Mazatlan, etc. |
dk,
you are simply wrong. you were wrong on this before, and wrong on it now. |
Facts, Mr. Mt. Goat 666... I really think you would like to debate based on facts, not emotions... Not from me, but from desert expert Barry A and
plant expert Mexitron in a thread called Baja Gardens in the Baja Home Building and Living forum, from last June:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
from Barry A in a reply to jdtrotter who also argued with me that I was 'wrong' about the Baja Salt Cedar:
posted on 6-8-2008 at 12:05 PM
Diane------
I think you are out on a limb on this one (besides seeming hyper-sensitive to ANYTHING David says) --------there are numerous types of Tamerisk, I
believe, and these particular type (as ID'ied from David's Photos) are NOT the type invading the river and stream channels throughout the southwest, I
don't believe. And yes, they are STILL being planted for wind breaks in the southwest, despite their voracious appetite for water----in the Borrego
Valley, for one, tho they do cause controversary as the water table in Borrego Springs is continueing to drop. They do have some very unique
characteristics that make them desirable under certain circumstances, as David laid out.
I certainly agree with you that the river tamerisk are a huge pain, and a severe problem, but they are NOT the tree-type of tamerisk (Salt Cedar), and
were introduced from abroad.
My frame of reference is my job irradicating the river tamerisks within certain National Parks and Monuments way back when I was doing that sort of
thing (1970's) as a Park Ranger/River Use Manager------but we were not very successful.
Please feel free to correct me if you have other information.
Barry
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from Mexitron, later in that thread:
posted on 6-9-2008 at 08:31 PM
DK--the Salt Cedar you are talking about I believe is Tamarisk aphylla which generally isn't as invasive as its cousin the smaller Tamarisk
ramoisissima (a noxious plant over-running ecosystems from Baja into Texas!). However both , as well as the rest of the 50 or so species, are native
to Eurasia. They were planted in Baja the same way figs and grapes were planted in the early missions down there--people brought them in.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My reply after reading looking at the link Mexitron provided:
Great links Steve...
Here is one line that the Baja Nomads should read regarding any harm caused by Luis planting the Nuevo Mazatlan forest in the late 60's-early 70's:
"Unlike the deciduous Tamarix spp., which have become serious weed
species in the Southwest, Athel tamrisk seldom escapes cultivation
and, therefore, rarely becomes a problem"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Photos of the Baja Salt Cedars (also called Salt Pines) at Nuevo Mazatlan are on this web page I made to show Nuevo Mazatlan: http://vivabaja.com/nm
Have a nice day!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64859
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Santiago, placing a cutting (branch) of a salt cedar in the soil and watering them with well water is how Luis grew the forest at Nuevo Mazatlan in
the late 60's early 70's.
That variety of salt cedar 'does not escape cultivation' which means grows only where you plant them and doesn't spread about and take over like the
bad one.
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vandenberg
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5118
Registered: 6-21-2005
Location: Nopolo
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Mood: mellow
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
That variety of salt cedar 'does not escape cultivation' which means grows only where you plant them and doesn't spread about and take over like the
bad one. |
Thanks David.
I knew there had to be a Nomad who knew how to read.
[Edited on 9-21-2008 by vandenberg]
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Santiago
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3512
Registered: 8-27-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Santiago, placing a cutting (branch) of a salt cedar in the soil and watering them with well water is how Luis grew the forest at Nuevo Mazatlan in
the late 60's early 70's.
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Can I do this on the first day of a week's visit, water every day and then leave for 2 or 3 months and it will take?
I do have 2 fairly large ones behind the cabin and over the last year I've pruned them to tree-shape rather than bush-shape. They seem to take the
pruning without any problems.
There are some negatives like constant needles dropping and they shed salt like crazy, rusting any metal around them. I'ld be happy to change them
out if anyone can suggest something that will grow fast, provide shade year-round, not need weekly or monthly watering. What about Eucaliptys (sp)?
Some had been growing in the camp but they are dead now.
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Bwana_John
Nomad
Posts: 289
Registered: 10-17-2007
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| Quote: |
is Tamarisk aphylla which generally isn't as invasive
Athel tamrisk seldom escapes cultivation |
| Quote: |
does not escape cultivation'
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| Quote: |
I knew there had to be a Nomad who knew how to read
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And... who would that be?
[Edited on 9-21-2008 by Bwana_John]
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bwana_John
| Quote: |
is Tamarisk aphylla which generally isn't as invasive
Athel tamrisk seldom escapes cultivation |
| Quote: |
does not escape cultivation'
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| Quote: |
I knew there had to be a Nomad who knew how to read
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And... who would that be?
[Edited on 9-21-2008 by Bwana_John] |
ONLY THE PHANTOM KNOWS-------
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64859
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Santiago, placing a cutting (branch) of a salt cedar in the soil and watering them with well water is how Luis grew the forest at Nuevo Mazatlan in
the late 60's early 70's.
|
Can I do this on the first day of a week's visit, water every day and then leave for 2 or 3 months and it will take?
I do have 2 fairly large ones behind the cabin and over the last year I've pruned them to tree-shape rather than bush-shape. They seem to take the
pruning without any problems.
There are some negatives like constant needles dropping and they shed salt like crazy, rusting any metal around them. I'ld be happy to change them
out if anyone can suggest something that will grow fast, provide shade year-round, not need weekly or monthly watering. What about Eucaliptys (sp)?
Some had been growing in the camp but they are dead now. |
Jim, I really think you will need to have someone water them at least once a week to keep them alive until their roots grow into the sea water or
watever moisture is under them.
This is where a battery operated drip system will allow a healthy growth of the tree(s) you plant (better still in jdtrotter's opinion is to pay a kid
if there were any around to water you tree regularly and hope he/ she actually does). Of course, you and I know the town is 4 miles away, so that is
not likely.
Doc is very savvy on what will grow there and what will grow best... Since there already are salt cedars growing at Gecko (and make excellent shade
trees on the edge of the beach), I would guess that Doc already has picked the best?
The needles by-the-way actually provide a clean, dust free carpet under the trees. They also repell most insects who hate the salt... the dripping is
only in the humid months, as well.
Best of luck to your Gecko landscaping!
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
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mtgoat--You are making a mountain out of a molehill--do some research and you will learn that Tamarix aphylla is basically sterile in the Southwest.
How many Tamarix aphylla have you seen in the Santo Thomas Valley that have spread from the trees lining the highway there?
If people want a shade tree and are willing to live with the consequences of their water depleting habits then I say let them.
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larryC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1496
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Santiago
I planted some of those salt pines at my place near Gecko, and Abraham told me at that time to take some cuttings from branches about 1/2" diameter,
then stand them up in a plastic container with an inch or two of water and let them sit till there are tiny little buds on them, then plant them. Mine
took about 10 days to 2 weeks before I saw the buds, I planted them and they took off. Another plant that does well down there is the Mexican Bird of
Paradise, grows from seeds but is a relatively fast grower and is green and has yellow flowers. You probably can get the seeds from Abraham, or if not
I have a bunch from my plants.
Hope this helps,
Larry
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Paulina
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3810
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Larry,
How often, if at all, did you have to water them once you transplanted them into the ground?
Thanks,
P.
\"Well behaved women rarely make history.\" Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
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aha baja
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Mood: wherever you go, there you are...
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Doc gave me about 30 Mexican bird of paradice seeds a few years back. Managed to get 3 adult plants and still have about 20 seeds left. They are
beautiful and unusual in apperance. Yellow flowers with red stamens, that look kind of like a cape honeysuckle. the leaves are green and look similar
to a jacoranda.
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Skip_Mac
Nomad
Posts: 102
Registered: 4-25-2008
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Invasive species destroy the landscape and environment we have come here to love. For me, I want nothing to do with arrogant immigrants importing
their homeland species to another biome.
Sorry if my feelings seem harsh, n=but the well meaning introduction of pike to Davis lake on the upper reaches of the Sacramento River, nearly
destroyed the salmon fishery in the 1990's. It soc=st the taxpayer millions and millions to stop the infestation. If you arrogantly decide to change
an environment by introducing a specifically invasive species, Well, I can only wish that YOU PAY the total cost of your ignorance.
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Santiago
Ultra Nomad
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Larry and aha: thanks - I'll check with Abraham next trip.
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Paulina
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On my first trip to Bahia almost 30 years ago I made the mistake of setting my cot up under one of those trees, thinking it was going to provide shade
for my afternoon siesta. Not until it started to rain on me did I realize there was a reason no one else was so smart.
My point is, look how big those trees where back then. They obviously had been there a long time.
We are not introducing these trees. As Soulpatch said, the trees were already there. They are through out the town and have been for many years. There
is no ground water where I plan to plant cuttings. I don't believe there is any threat to ground water or other native plants where Doc has planted
his at Camp Gecko or where Santiago plans to plant his.
I understand your concern Skip Mac, and when I get them planted you are more than welcome to come and make an environmental study at my place and if
you can show me where I am harming the indigenous plant life of Bahia de Los Angeles I will personally rip them out.
P<*)))>{
\"Well behaved women rarely make history.\" Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
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