BajaNomad

Semarnat question?

slimshady - 9-28-2008 at 02:14 PM

Does anyone know what the requirements are with Semarnat regarding a permit which is required prior to construction. I have a lot in B.C.S. and need to get either the environmental study or ecological study. I have heard from two builders. One says it will cost 7k to pay for the study and another guy who says it will cost a couple of hundred dollars because the lot is more than 100 meters from the ocean.

The lot is two hundred yards from the ocean and is about 1700 meter squared. I would hate to pay the gringo tax. Any help will do.

Bob and Susan - 9-28-2008 at 02:25 PM

take it from me...

you NEED a environmental study PERIOD before you build

DO NOT listen to ANYONE that says you don't

if you need a REAL person to do the study i can recommend someone
u2u me

price $5000 to $7000 usa

slimshady - 9-28-2008 at 02:29 PM

I understand what you are saying. Where can I find out from the written law regarding something like that?

Bob and Susan - 9-28-2008 at 02:31 PM

maybe someone else knows...
i just know how to pay the fines:rolleyes:

slimshady - 9-28-2008 at 02:36 PM

Did you not get a permit before? I hear that they run about 5K. Ouch. I hear oceanfront property needs the full environmental survey, while back lots(100 yards or more) just the ecological study. Both are from Semarnat. The both involve donating the plants.

Bob and Susan - 9-28-2008 at 02:44 PM

donating the plants???

we didn't get one...
when we started no one here knew about them
and
no one knew how to write them either

we had to get a damage report and pay a fine
we now have a letter of normalization

its sure different now
builders wont even start without one

if you are in a development the development can "umbrella" all the lots
but it still has to be done

a back lot (100yds) is still ocean front in mexico

if you remove plants you need to replace them somewhere (they will tell you where) at your expense...and they need to live

i've never heard of donating plants to someone

slimshady - 9-28-2008 at 02:51 PM

In donating I mean removing them and putting them where it would live at your expense. The 100 yards is beyond the federal zone.

which is the basically any beach front lot. I know its confusing and the information is not readily available.

Bob and Susan - 9-28-2008 at 02:57 PM

well...that's beach front to profepa

you NEED a permit

if you dont get it you'll pay the fine...

Semarnat will tell you even IF you can remove the plants
not all plants can even be removed for construction

they can tell you stories of each plant...
some used to clog a radiator
some to feed bugs that kill other bugs
some people eat ( you wouldn't)
etc

slimshady - 9-28-2008 at 03:01 PM

I can just imagine.

oldlady - 9-28-2008 at 03:10 PM

We have been through this drill. Bob and Susan are right. If they have a good contact for the study, and the person is reasonably convenient in location, start there. You aren't going to get it done for a few hundred.
The fine for not doing it can go as high as 10K US...and you will still have to pay for the study.

As for the law, hope your Spanish is really good. You can go to the Semernat website and it is there, and it is lengthy!!!!.

Good Luck!

Bob and Susan - 9-28-2008 at 03:30 PM

no...the fine is normally 30k now...

the fine depends on what you do...

you can haggle...:light:

oldlady - 9-28-2008 at 03:32 PM

Not taking issue with ya, my experience is 18 months old.

Bob and Susan - 9-28-2008 at 03:35 PM

you are right...

now...

you know you need it...its a law

don't start building without it or...
have a "warchest" to pay later
but if you do ...

don't complain when you get caught

oldlady - 9-28-2008 at 03:39 PM

Complete and perfect advice!

redmesa - 9-28-2008 at 03:44 PM

Does this apply within a town or city limits?

slimshady - 9-28-2008 at 03:55 PM

I emailed Semarnat and 3 of the delegates and hopefully they will respond. I know a study needs to be done. The issue is whether I need the environmental study which is necessary for the federal zone. My lot is approx. 195 meters from the water. One builder says I will need the ecological one since I am farther from the ocean. Information is hard to find, and maybe thats the way people like it so they can gringo tax us.

oldlady - 9-28-2008 at 03:57 PM

!8 months ago, in La Paz, the Delegado told me that it was immaterial whether or not your property was categorized as urbana or rustica.
That's not an exact answer to your question, I know.

Slimshady

longlegsinlapaz - 9-28-2008 at 04:03 PM

Bob and Susan & oldlady speak from experiences that you don't want to experience....do a search here for SEMERNAT, PROFEPA and/or EIS for a lot of information in English....or take oldlady's advice & look at the SEMERNAT website if you're fluent in Espanol.

I'm roughly 1 mile from the Bay & my property required a full EIS; I followed the law to the letter & it still took 6 months for final approval!:no::no:

Don't believe builders!! They will generally tell you what you want to hear so they can start making money sooner! Get information from SEMERNAT & get it in writing over a signature! YOU are held liable, the builder is not responsible for any fines, penalties or repercussions....it all falls on the property owner.

akshadow - 9-28-2008 at 04:47 PM

What are these things. Are these fairly new in the enforcement area.
As far as I can remember in the San Felipe area no one has gotten or ever even heard of these items once you are beyond the federal zone. And they have only started in the last five years or so having any interest in the federal zone. I know the Campo owner has paid fines and changed the way people build near the beach.

Russ - 9-28-2008 at 04:59 PM

I just received my "complete" final resolution this week after 3 years. All the previous reports of infractions and penalties were dismissed. If you take care of the papers before you turn a rock things can go fairly smoothly. But still you need to hire some one with knowledge and experience in obtaining the final resolution. There is no shortage of people out there that will tell you they can do it. I used Hilario Toba. Tel. 612-124-1277 - Cel. 044-612-156-9495. E-mail hilariotoba@hotmail.com He has worked with 90% of the Punta Chivato home owners and so far only a few have had to pay any fines. He speaks English well so you won't be left totally in the dark during the process. At times I wondered if I had made another mistake. I had two others that failed. Now I'm told that there is another study I need to complete the process. It, I believe, is an updated version of the EIS. Because the papers I received don't mention that I have one. Whom ever you sign with make sure that the EIS is part of the contract. If you haven't been cited you might want Bob & Susan's or oldlady's representative. I was under the impression the Hilario would do my EIS but now he has told others that it was not included in our contract. Honest mistake? who knows I haven't had an opportunity to talk with him directly. This was an absolute nightmare. I wish all the best but if you haven't any citations you should do well. For those that are going through the problems with PROFEPA when your final resolution come make sure that on the last page it states that all previous and future issues are not valid. Sorry, I can't find the exact wording but will edit this post when I find it. GOOD LUCK ALL

longlegsinlapaz - 9-28-2008 at 05:08 PM

SEMERNAT advised me the EIS laws have been in place for quite some time; PROFEPA's stringent enforcement of violations, however is a much more recent development.

Since SEMERNAT is a Federal agency, that would convey to me that the laws apply for ALL of Mexico, with some degree of fluidity, of course, depending on local enforcement, which is why I recommended Slimshady get answers to his questions in writing!

Russ - 9-28-2008 at 05:46 PM

I agree with you longlegsinlapaz. However it has been reported to me SEMERNAT has "improved" their process for those, like myself and others in Punta Chivato. Again, I haven't spoken directly with my representative and will post anything contrary to what I've stated here.
longlegsinlapaz, I love your description of PROFEPA. They totally blew the serving of papers and demands for fines against many of us and a federal judge threw out all there complaints. SEMERNAT was more than a bit angry. Good for us & Hilario for fighting it!

redmesa - 9-28-2008 at 06:06 PM

I am befuddled. I guess, I will ask my Realtor what is what with this. There always are surprises in Baja that is for sure. Just when we think it is clear the water is totally muddy again.

Russ - 9-28-2008 at 06:18 PM

redmesa, If you are in the "city" proper you may have dodge the problem. I don't know your realtor so don't take offense please. Many realtors claim to be up to date on the where with all of this issue. DO NOT take their word to the bank. Ask you friends and neighbors what they have done. If they haven't had to address these issues yet they will. Maybe, there is some money to be save as a group as far as a representative is concerned.

longlegsinlapaz - 9-28-2008 at 06:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by redmesa
I am befuddled. I guess, I will ask my Realtor what is what with this. There always are surprises in Baja that is for sure. Just when we think it is clear the water is totally muddy again.
redmesa, not to dis your realtor, but IMHO, you'd be better off getting information directly from SEMERNAT. Builders & realtors aren't necessarily current on the laws & they can have a vested interest in how much they tell you. I'd ask your realtor, but then ask the same questions of SEMERNAT to verify or debunk what you've been told.

longlegsinlapaz - 9-28-2008 at 06:23 PM

:lol::lol:"Great Minds", Hook!! We cross-posted;)

slimshady - 9-28-2008 at 10:56 PM

Hell, I thought I was confused. My head hurts more than before. It looks like there are 20 different answers.

Bob and Susan - 9-29-2008 at 04:58 AM

the correct answer is you need a report...

ncampion - 9-29-2008 at 09:28 AM

Maybe a little cost / benefit analysis is in order. I know people who went ahead and cleared land, built their house and were living comfortable for over a year when local Profepa came and leveled about $10,000 USD fines for not having necessary reports. They paid the fines, filed the reports and everyone is happy. We are trying to do everything right up front and the delays have cost us over $100,000 in construction cost increases. Maybe better to pay $10,000 fine and be enjoying your home a year earlier!!

CaboRon - 9-29-2008 at 09:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ncampion
Maybe a little cost / benefit analysis is in order. I know people who went ahead and cleared land, built their house and were living comfortable for over a year when local Profepa came and leveled about $10,000 USD fines for not having necessary reports. They paid the fines, filed the reports and everyone is happy. We are trying to do everything right up front and the delays have cost us over $100,000 in construction cost increases. Maybe better to pay $10,000 fine and be enjoying your home a year earlier!!


An interesting way to resolve the problem ....

Sounds as if the delays are far more expensive for you than the fines ....

CaboRon