BajaNomad - Public Meeting about CFE

Public Meeting about CFE

CaboRon - 10-21-2008 at 07:39 AM

This notice appeared in the BWO this morning .... many in Todos Santos have received elec bills many times higher than ever before ....

High Electricity Rates - To all of you who received a high electricity bill, please be advised that the Procuraduria Federal Del Consumidor, Profeco,(Federal Consumer Protection Agency) will be in TS at the DIF, next to la ARCA on 10/22, 10 AM,with the Reps of the CFE to hear all complaints about the excessive billing rates. Please bring your bill with some ID and bring along all your friends. - Antonio Bolio, antonio@bolio.com 612 171 0432 , Todos Santos
Editor's Note: We have been asked to include the information that the rate we pay here in Todos Santos is two to three times higher than that paid in Laz Paz and Cabo.

edit for spelling

[Edited on 10-23-2008 by CaboRon]

stanburn - 10-21-2008 at 04:13 PM

Okay, no one else has bitten so I will.

What are the rates on your CFE bill?

The rates on mine (I live on the mainland) are:

Basico = 0.571 per kwh
Intermedio = 0.672 per kwh
Suma = don't know I've never been there and there isn't a rate on the bill.

I am curious how your rates compare.

CaboRon - 10-21-2008 at 04:26 PM

basico 0.575

intermedio 0.883

excedente 2.283

Evidently once you reach the excendente , that becomes the rate for the entire following year for all kilowatt hours used.

We shall see what the rep says in the meeting ....

It is difficult to get a straight answer at the office.

CaboRon

CaboRon - 10-21-2008 at 05:32 PM

I just copied those numbers off of my bill ...

Before this billing period I had never seen the Excendente rate either.

My previous bills have been around 25 dollars US ... this one is 138 dollars US .... now that is scary ....

This is happening to local Mexicans also.

CaboRon

CaboRon - 10-21-2008 at 05:55 PM

Now you know why we are having this community meeting !!!

CaboRon

akshadow - 10-21-2008 at 06:19 PM

Those rates look very similar to the San Felipe rates if my memory serves me. The lower rates get a large government subsidy. and are limited number of kilowatts my memory is that the total that the government subsidizes is 200 KW per MONTH. And each month starts over. There are also different rates summer vs winter .

2.2 peso per kw is not bad since it is for KW in excess of 200 per month, less than many places in the us.

It will add up unless on controls their useage,
When we are there in the Nov - Dec period and Feb - April period we usually only go over by a few KW.

stanburn - 10-21-2008 at 06:28 PM

CaboRon,

Thanks for the feedback. It is also my understanding that once you hit the high rate that you pay that rate for all of your usage for the next 12 months. Even then in order to get back to a lower rate you have to reduce your consumption to the lower level.

That's why I have learned how to live without air conditioning here in the tropics!

longlegsinlapaz - 10-21-2008 at 09:35 PM

I have copies of all my bills back to 2002. Each & every month there has been a rate increase in ALL the rate categories: basico/intermedio/excedemente.

Actuals
January 2002
.400 / 0-75 kWh
.473 / 76- 300 kWh
1.590 / 301 & above

September 2008
.571 / 350 kWh
.857 / 351 - 850

You still pay basic & intermedio rates when you exceed 850 kWh per cycle & move into excedemente, but they also lower the amount of kWh in each of the lower rate categories. On the months that I was in the excedemente usage, the government subsidy was still applied.

It's hard to make a definitive analysis because of the monthly rate increases, the kWh reductions in basic & intermedio schedules once excedemente kicks in & to complicate things even more, the government subsidy if not a fixed amount, it's on a sliding scale based on temperature. Subsidy starts out low, increases during the hottest months & starts cutting back in Sept/Oct.

The only thing I can say for sure is you need to keep your usage under 850 kWh each billing cycle to maintain the lowest rates.

All the rates people have posted prove that the rates are the same regardless of locale & that it's individual usage that drives the cost up.

Riom - 10-22-2008 at 02:55 PM

Just got my latest electric bill online (to Oct 20) and considering there were 3 weeks of minisplit A/C use in it it's OK - 594 kWh, first 300 charged at 0.459 pesos, next 294 at 0.608 pesos.

With tax and various discounts the amount payable is 238 pesos (now under $20). This is for the 1F tariff, max 5kW, in San Felipe.

However, it was recently 400 kWh/month at the lowest rate, so reducing that is helping creep the rates up. Still a bargain though compared to most countries, for low users. I think the idea of charging tiers and high prices for heavy users is great, encourages people to reduce their usage.

oxxo - 10-22-2008 at 04:47 PM

I checked my bill for Los Cabos residence. Four months (Jun, Jul, Aug, Sept) we averaged 525 Kwh per month living full time with mini splits and two different groups of guests. The four months was about $225 total.

We can live with that.

woody with a view - 10-22-2008 at 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo
I checked my bill for Los Cabos residence. Four months (Jun, Jul, Aug, Sept) we averaged 525 Kwh per month living full time with mini splits and two different groups of guests. The four months was about $225 total.

We can live with that.

that's less than i pay in san diego, and i don't run a/c ever. who's complaining down there? :?:

BajaOnion - 10-22-2008 at 08:05 PM

Thanks for referencing our article. It is actually BWO - not BTO - Baja Western Onion. We can be found at www.bajawesternonion.com and we publish a free, twice weekly on-line newsletter serving the Todos Santos/Pescadero region. We welcome subscribers from all over U.S., Canada and Mexico - and places beyond.

CaboRon - 10-22-2008 at 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaOnion
Thanks for referencing our article. It is actually BWO - not BTO - Baja Western Onion. We can be found at www.bajawesternonion.com and we publish a free, twice weekly on-line newsletter serving the Todos Santos/Pescadero region. We welcome subscribers from all over U.S., Canada and Mexico - and places beyond.

Welcome aboard ,

I fixed it ..... BWO is a great newsletter .....

If you live anywhere in Baja Sur it would do you well to subscribe ....

Looking forward to the BWO's report on the meeting today ..

CaboRon

Woooosh - 10-22-2008 at 11:17 PM

Quote:

no no no ... it is we who welcome you here, for now.

rob - 1-21-2009 at 12:31 PM

Just examined our CFE bill at the ranch for period 22 Oct to 20 Dec 2008 - a nasty shock.

With an increase of only 45Kwh (523kWh to 566kWh) from the previous period, our bill has gone from $350p to $892p! That's outrageous!

On closer examination, what has happened is that CFE has quietly decreased the Bàsico kWh allowance from 350 to 150kWh, bumping the balance into Intermedio and, for the first time, into Excedente - this last accounting for almost $500p of the $892p bill.

As we don't use air conditioning or any other heavy electrical stuff, it's going to be hard to decrease this usage (which I am sure CFE factored into the new rates).

It's Profeco time.

vandenberg - 1-21-2009 at 12:55 PM

In Nopolo our bill is for the first 150KW basic, the next 250KW for intermediate and above that the "Sockittome" rate.

I'm embarrased to show our bill, but if I did you would all feel a bit better. :biggrin:

[Edited on 1-21-2009 by vandenberg]

So...

Dave - 1-21-2009 at 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
In Nopolo our bill is for the first 150KW basic, the next 250KW for intermediate and above that the "Sockittome" rate.

I'm embarrased to show our bill, but if I did you would all feel a bit better. :biggrin:

[Edited on 1-21-2009 by vandenberg]

How come your 'basic' ends at 150kw and Longleg's is 75kw?

I've never shopped my electric bill and so assumed that all bills had the same rate breaks. Can anyone explain why rate breaks would be different considering there is but one electric company?

vandenberg - 1-21-2009 at 02:14 PM

Dave,
If there was any prevailing logic, I love to hear it.
Here a summary of last 2 bills,

Sep.9 to Nov.11 2008,

Basico 600 KW precio 0.459
Intermedio 1200 KW " 0.765
Excedente " 2.290

Nov.11 to Jan.14 2009,

Basico 150 KW precio 0.661
Intermedio 250 KW " 1.085
Excedente " 2.305

losfrailes - 1-21-2009 at 04:48 PM

Those rates are lower than we are paying in Santa Rosalia area:

Basico - .577
Intermedio - .866
Excediente - 2.290

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon
basico 0.575

intermedio 0.883

excedente 2.283

Evidently once you reach the excendente , that becomes the rate for the entire following year for all kilowatt hours used.

We shall see what the rep says in the meeting ....

It is difficult to get a straight answer at the office.

CaboRon

Russ - 1-21-2009 at 05:29 PM

I guess we're lucky we don't have to worry about Power bills here, nor water, land line phone or road repair. How ever our taxes just doubled?

msteve1014 - 1-21-2009 at 06:01 PM

Russ, You don't have to worry about "the man" shutting off the water any longer? Or was that just a power struggle up near the hotel? I think I prefer having "utilities".

longlegsinlapaz - 1-21-2009 at 09:12 PM

First of all, please understand that this thread was started several months ago....therefore the discrepancies in rate amounts posted by various people over a period of time.

Second.....ARRRRRGH!!! :no:

While Kate was doing things the EASY way, I was slaving over old bills, creating a simplified non-scientific chart to try to better explain, & cussing a LOT! :lol:

Then I logged back on to post it, only to see that Kate's beat me to the punch with a lot less effort! :no:

But I'm posting it anyway! :lol:

Please note, the following confirms what Kate said! :lol:

Cooler Months
December – April is billed @ lower Basic/Intermediate/Excessive kWh increments & higher rate schedules

Hotter Months
May – October is billed @ higher Basic/Intermediate/Excessive kWh increments & lower rate schedules

10/18/08 - 12/17/08
150 0.659 $ 98.85
200 1.081 $216.20
382 2.297 $877.45
732 kWh $1,311.77

8/19/08 – 10/17/08
350 0.575 $201.25
436 0.676 $294.73
786 kWh $546.02

4/17/08 – 6/18/08
350 0.567 $198.45
395 0.668 $263.86
745 kWh $508.81

12/13/07 – 2/13/08
150 0.639 $ 95.85
200 1.049 $209.80
568 2.227 $1,264.93
918 kWh $1,728.02

As a footnote, I've always felt that I'm VERY conservative in my electricity usage (no lights during the day, light on only in the room I'm in at night, no exterior lights on at night, pool filtration reduced from the 6-hour setting equipment installer programmed to 2 hours, gas water heater & cooking), but some of you guys who are only paying "$25-30" USD equiv. are ticking me off!

Tonight I'm going from room-to-room & unplugging things I don't use every day! :rolleyes:

BajaNuts - 1-21-2009 at 10:44 PM

And to support what LongLegs said,

There are a lot of "ghost currents" in houses. I'm talking about things that are on even when they're not on.

Everything that has a clock/timer- tv, coffee pot, vcr, dvd, microwave....

COMPUTER- even though it is not functioning, it is still drawing current.

Other things- anything with a timer- irrigation, pool circulation, electric toothbrush charger (even if the toothbrush is charged, the unit is on)-

Chargers- cell phone charger, Wii remote charger, anything plugged in and especially if it has a little red "indicator" light.............it's sucking juice!

We did an electrical job for a customer about 5 years ago who was TOTALLY off the grid in north central Washington. (Try that in the winter.....) They asked us to put several outlets for things like the tv and microwave outlets in certain places so they could unplug them to eliminate the electrical draw of those items. They plug them in when they need to use the item and then unplug them when not in use.

There are some studies out there about how much electricity items use even when turned off. I'll see if I can find them.

Think about what's plugged in right now in your casa, and how many of those items are actually using the juice.............

Hope this helps for awareness of watt's being used.........

(pun TOTALLY intended :lol:

:lol

)

[Edited on 1-22-2009 by BajaNuts]

[Edited on 1-22-2009 by BajaNuts]

comitan - 1-22-2009 at 08:33 AM

My electric coincides with longlegs within 100 peso's and am not complaining.

Woooosh - 1-22-2009 at 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaNuts
And to support what LongLegs said,

There are a lot of "ghost currents" in houses. I'm talking about things that are on even when they're not on.

Everything that has a clock/timer- tv, coffee pot, vcr, dvd, microwave....

COMPUTER- even though it is not functioning, it is still drawing current.

Other things- anything with a timer- irrigation, pool circulation, electric toothbrush charger (even if the toothbrush is charged, the unit is on)-

Chargers- cell phone charger, Wii remote charger, anything plugged in and especially if it has a little red "indicator" light.............it's sucking juice!

We did an electrical job for a customer about 5 years ago who was TOTALLY off the grid in north central Washington. (Try that in the winter.....) They asked us to put several outlets for things like the tv and microwave outlets in certain places so they could unplug them to eliminate the electrical draw of those items. They plug them in when they need to use the item and then unplug them when not in use.

There are some studies out there about how much electricity items use even when turned off. I'll see if I can find them.

Think about what's plugged in right now in your casa, and how many of those items are actually using the juice.............

Hope this helps for awareness of watt's being used.........

(pun TOTALLY intended :lol:

:lol

)

[Edited on 1-22-2009 by BajaNuts]

[Edited on 1-22-2009 by BajaNuts]

Anything pullged in can and does draw energy- they call them "vampires" I think.

I don't understand what you folks are complaining about.
Our bill is 11,000 pesos for two months! No, it's not a ttypo and no one is staeling our powers (no houses on three sides of us and the forth side is the street) It was running 8,000 every two months last year.

k-rico - 1-22-2009 at 10:08 AM

I'm in TJ

From 7 Oct to 3 Dec, 57 days, I used 532 kWh and my bill was $1,732, before the 10% IVA. Obviously no AC and no electric heat, gas clothes dryer and hot water tank. Two people.

WHOA Woooosh!!!

longlegsinlapaz - 1-22-2009 at 10:14 AM

Your bi-monthly electric bill exceeds my monthly income! Are you SURE you're not supplying power to half of Rosarito? :rolleyes:

(...back to unplugging innocent looking, kWh-sucking electrical devices) :tumble:

vandenberg - 1-22-2009 at 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
Your bi-monthly electric bill exceeds my monthly income! Are you SURE you're not supplying power to half of Rosarito? :rolleyes:

(...back to unplugging innocent looking, kWh-sucking electrical devices) :tumble:

See what I was talking about, posting the amount of our bi-monthly bill, to make you feel better.

Now that Wooosh has posted his, it make our $ 250.00 (yes dollrs) a month yearly average bill, great by comparison. :no:

But, then again, my bill in Sacramento, many years ago, was running an average of $ 200.00.

[Edited on 1-22-2009 by vandenberg]

Depends on who is living in the house.

BMG - 1-22-2009 at 10:26 AM

Our housesitter this summer had 2 electric bills that she was responsible for. Her total was about M$800 for 4 months!?! (A little over M$400 Jul/Aug and a little under Sep/Oct.) She must have turned everything off except the refrigerator. I don't think she ever used the A/C, only the ceiling fan while sleeping.

We returned to La Paz in mid-Nov and our Nov/Dec bill was M$1002.

Woooosh - 1-22-2009 at 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
Your bi-monthly electric bill exceeds my monthly income! Are you SURE you're not supplying power to half of Rosarito? :rolleyes:

(...back to unplugging innocent looking, kWh-sucking electrical devices) :tumble:

We have mutilple units, a pool, and beach-illuminating flood lights all on the same meter- so we could and will be doing things smarter. The soccer kids aren't happy when the lights come on late (7pm) one lady was downright nasty to me about not having the lights on for them. (she got a one night no-lights for anyone "yellow card" for that.

cargo fijo precio 68.24
basico precio 3.278

longlegsinlapaz - 1-22-2009 at 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaNuts
We did an electrical job for a customer about 5 years ago who was TOTALLY off the grid in north central Washington. (Try that in the winter.....) They asked us to put several outlets for things like the tv and microwave outlets in certain places so they could unplug them to eliminate the electrical draw of those items. They plug them in when they need to use the item and then unplug them when not in use.

And then there are those of us who are more-aesthetically minded who intentionally planned ALL our outlets to "hide" behind things thereby removing them from view...thus making it harder to access...as I'm now discovering wasn't such a smart idea after all! :no:

BajaNuts - 1-23-2009 at 01:25 AM

Unfortunately, point of views can change as to what is important.

Usually the aesthetics are what we spend multiple emails debating............"would the switch look better on the left side of the hall or the right side of the hall".... (when I'm on the job I'm thinking............. JUST BE GLAD YOU HAVE A SWITCH!)

Plug strips with a switch on them are a good secret for turning off things that aren't easily accessible.

couldashouldawoulda......................

I have to add here, i was sitting in the living room at 6:00pm today and looking outside and it was pitch black. I was thinking of a year ago when we were in La Paz and it was light much later.

wessongroup - 8-28-2009 at 04:31 PM

Standby power study by Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory

http://standby.lbl.gov/summary-table.html

Just found this thread looking for current power costs in the Baja..

If there any updates to what has already been posted, they would be welcomed

The Mexican Way

Dave - 8-28-2009 at 05:03 PM

In the space of three billing periods my commercial meter went from 3900 to 11,500 pesos. Complained about it but got no response. They said nothing was wrong with the meter...guess because I was paying the bills. :rolleyes:

Finally, miracle of miracles, the meter was accidentally broken. They replaced it and the bill went back down to acceptable levels. I even got a credit for past overcharges.

woody with a view - 8-28-2009 at 05:25 PM

by accident you mean an errant baseball bat? :light:

Some good news

wessongroup - 8-28-2009 at 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
In the space of three billing periods my commercial meter went from 3900 to 11,500 pesos. Complained about it but got no response. They said nothing was wrong with the meter...guess because I was paying the bills. :rolleyes:

Finally, miracle of miracles, the meter was accidentally broken. They replaced it and the bill went back down to acceptable levels. I even got a credit for past overcharges.

Thanks, glad to hear a good story..... with a happy ending

JESSE - 8-28-2009 at 07:01 PM

Just to make you guys feel better, my last bill was 15,000 pesos.

rocmoc - 8-28-2009 at 07:14 PM

Jesse, that's not for residential use is It?

rocmoc n AZ//Mexico

Wow

wessongroup - 8-28-2009 at 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Just to make you guys feel better, my last bill was 15,000 pesos.

Understand your mood totally!!!

[Edited on 8-29-2009 by wessongroup]

BigWooo - 8-29-2009 at 05:51 AM

In our future home we have a couple of 3 way switches that will shut off the outlets supplying power to kitchen appliances, dvd's, tv's, and satellite...all the stuff with "phantom loads". One switch will be placed near the appliance, the other in route to the bedroom. That way it will be convenient to shut them off when not needed.

Down side is that stuff with digital clocks will always be screwed up, but a battery power clock on the wall will keep us on time. Wait...we'll be retired, forget the clock, who cares :lol:

.

We're doing this because more because we're solar and it will save us the cost of buying some extra panels, however I bet if you design an on-grid home in a similar manner you'll see a some savings.

Bob and Susan - 8-29-2009 at 05:59 AM

actually i thought the "phantom loads" would be a problem too...

but NO

don't worry at all about them

its the BIG stuff and the use of it all night and day

and the HEAT!!! :no:

Why

wessongroup - 8-29-2009 at 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
First of all, please understand that this thread was started several months ago....therefore the discrepancies in rate amounts posted by various people over a period of time.

Second.....ARRRRRGH!!! :no:

While Kate was doing things the EASY way, I was slaving over old bills, creating a simplified non-scientific chart to try to better explain, & cussing a LOT! :lol:

Then I logged back on to post it, only to see that Kate's beat me to the punch with a lot less effort! :no:

But I'm posting it anyway! :lol:

Please note, the following confirms what Kate said! :lol:

Tonight I'm going from room-to-room & unplugging things I don't use every day! :rolleyes:

Just wondering why usage would go up in the “winter time”.. Is it because of electric heating?

Can understand high kWh in the summer, but one would think the numbers would go down in the cooler part of the year (December through February)

Thanks for all your work, it helps seeing it broken out in this fashion for me..

The other link posted by Kate is also very helpful… thanks again to all, this saves a lot of time and provides real insight to living in "Baja"

bajalou - 8-29-2009 at 07:11 AM

The RATE is subsidized in the summer to help offset the cost of air conditioning. In winter, the rates revert to their standard rates. You can see in longlegs chart the second and third tier of rates.

Rates

wessongroup - 8-29-2009 at 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalou
The RATE is subsidized in the summer to help offset the cost of air conditioning. In winter, the rates revert to their standard rates. You can see in longlegs chart the second and third tier of rates.

Saw the rate changes, but also saw an increase in usage to 918 kWh in the winter, why..

[Edited on 8-29-2009 by wessongroup]