BajaNomad

No Tire Basura!!

Ken Bondy - 2-17-2003 at 10:45 AM

What's wrong with this photo?




[Edited on 2-17-2003 by Ken Bondy]

Minnow - 2-17-2003 at 02:22 PM

The fact I'm not passing that sign right now on my way south out of El Rosario.

reefrocket - 2-17-2003 at 10:27 PM

#1 I don't see any Mc D. or Burger K. lables.
#2 no llantras (sp)

What it NEEDS is some orange jump suits and pokie stick. Call it outside entertainment, and in the orange suit groups there would be a waiting line.

SEATWILL - 2-18-2003 at 08:30 AM

after looking at the pic,the sign should read SI TIRE BASURA :fire:

Stephanie Jackter - 2-18-2003 at 10:38 PM

It's enough to make your stomach churn, isn't it. I've had the same experience. The first time I ever saw sea lions off the little island with the faro behind pichilingue, there was a young sea lion being strangled by a plastic soda pop six pack holder. Not a thing I could do but cry for the inhumanity of man to our fellow beings. - Stephanie

bancoduo - 3-24-2006 at 02:11 PM

Looks like rosarito beach.:fire::fire::fire:

Ken-----

Barry A. - 3-24-2006 at 02:37 PM

As long as I live, I will NEVER understand why folks do this--------talk about soiling one's own nest------it just makes no sense for any "thinking" individual to do this-------it makes me very sad, and it ALWAYS has.

It is a crime against the earth, our only home, and a manisfestation of some real hostility, as I see it.

looks like silicon valley

Dianamo - 3-24-2006 at 02:49 PM

Sad, but litter still exists even in Silicon Valley! I should get a photo of the litter that is visible next to the $1000 fine for littering sign!:fire:

Ken------

Barry A. - 3-24-2006 at 02:53 PM

-----as I look further at that photo, it occurred to me that it looks similar to the climb going south from the big bridge across the river just east of El Rosario. If that is so, isn't there a land-fill close by just up stream?? Hopefully I am right, and that trash has just blown out of the dump in the wind------------still a shame, but a little more understandable.

Garbology

bajajudy - 3-24-2006 at 03:05 PM

Ok here is a friend of mines take on this. He thinks that since the people here have always used everything....old coffee cans for planters, old food for the animals, old tires for planters...etc. They are not used to having something that will not go away. The idea that that plastic bag will still be there in 1000 years is inconceivable.

One more food for thought...do any of you remember the good ole USA in the 50's ? Litter was a major problem.

It takes education and the Mexican Gov't is working on that. Thank goodness.. I have included a poster that was on a neighbor's house after the school did a compaign on cleaning up the beach. There is hope.

One more take on this from one of my friends who is very spiritual. She says that she thinks the plastic bags should be our face so we realize how much we waste. In the states you never see them because they are tucked away in some landfill, out of sight, out of mind. She also mentioned that she and her husband went through their trip pix to remove all the ones with gabage in them and wound up with very few photos

Ok that is my garbage for the day:saint:

[Edited on 3-24-2006 by bajajudy]

They need to ad

fdt - 3-24-2006 at 03:06 PM

to NO TIRE BASURA, YA TENEMOS MUCHA

Barry A. - 3-24-2006 at 03:12 PM

--------and "Ya Tenemos Mucha" means???????


---------and Judy----how come the old ranchos in the back country are almost always litter free??? Is it education, or just hostility towards their fellow man???? or whatever?????

I wish I knew.

bajajudy - 3-24-2006 at 03:18 PM

It means right now we have a lot.


Where are you coming from with this hostility thing? Of course, it is education. Were we angry before we learned not to litter? No we were stupid.

The old ranchers probably found a use for every plastic bag they ever had. AND they were probably few and far between. Where would they have gotten them?

woody with a view - 3-24-2006 at 03:32 PM

what used to make me giggle now makes me grimace!

seems that, for whatever reason, the local dump is never "over" the first hill and outta sight, but "on" the nearest hill. :wow:

Bob H - 3-24-2006 at 04:16 PM

Ken, since you posted this photo in February 2003 I have noticed a much cleaner Baja. It seems like the locals are taking better care of their land than just a few years ago.
Bob H

Ken Bondy - 3-24-2006 at 05:27 PM

Bob H
That is really good to hear. It's been more then a year since I've been there. This basura thing was an ugly blemish on a beautiful land.

Barry A
The location is as you describe, just south (east) of El Rosario. The trash clearly could have been blown from the dump rather than just deposited there. Like you say, a shame but more understandable.

++Ken++

Cardon - 3-24-2006 at 06:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob H
It seems like the locals are taking better care of their land than just a few years ago.
Bob H


I think this is true too. A few years ago I had someone that lives down there explain the trash situation to me. He said that in 500 years people will go to the gringo landfills and will be able to dig up all that trash cuz it will still be there. The trash that the Mexicans spread out all over the desert will only last 2-20 years cuz the sun and wind and water will turn it all to dust. An interesting idea but with Baja's population exploding I think landfills is the way to go.
What is bothering me more than the trash is the graffiti epidemic.

Bob H - 3-24-2006 at 06:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cardon
Quote:
What is bothering me more than the trash is the graffiti epidemic.


Graffiti is a worldwide epidemic these days. It's even worse all over Europe.
Bob H

Judy------the "hostility thing" ---------

Barry A. - 3-24-2006 at 07:27 PM

------is the only thing that I can come up with to explain littering. Why would someone litter unless they wanted to shock or offend other people? That is what littering does-----it offends others.

It sure does not take "smarts" to be offended by trash blowing around, just like it does not take "smarts" to take a bath. It is kinda like, "duh", at least to me. Are you telling me that we had to be "taught" not to litter???? I simply cannot buy that. It makes no sense to me. My family considered littering a capitol crime, and we would have been grounded forever if we had ever done that, and none of us EVER did-----EVER!!!!

Am I missing something here??

Diver - 3-24-2006 at 07:43 PM

When people throw trash from speeding car windows in the US, I don't think they are angry or hostile. I think they are careless, lazy and unthinking. It doesn't bother THEM enough to walk to the trash can.
They don't do it for "effect" !!

I too am offended and angered by trashy messes wherever I find them.

I remember driving home from a Baja trip years ago and when I stopped at McD's for a break, I watched a young mexican girl throw trash from her car onto the vacant lot adjacent to the parking area. It bothered me enough that I stuck my head out the window and said "No tire basura !" as I had just learned from reading all the signs in Baja. She didn't pick up the trash but looked at me like I was a crazy man. Maybe she was right !?!?

bajajudy - 3-24-2006 at 08:28 PM

Barry
Possibly a generation, maybe two, what do I know.

But I think that you just proved my point...you were educated not to do it.


Adios



[Edited on 3-25-2006 by bajajudy]

wornout - 3-24-2006 at 08:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Bondy
What's wrong with this photo?



[Edited on 2-17-2003 by Ken Bondy]



Well, it makes one think that dumping tires along the road is ok, just NOT here.

Judy-----

Barry A. - 3-24-2006 at 09:38 PM

-----I asked my wife at dinner why she thought people littered along the highways------------she said, "lack of education!!!! They don't know any better".

I am really getting beat up here.:lol:

Adios

Don Alley - 3-24-2006 at 09:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
------is the only thing that I can come up with to explain littering. Why would someone litter unless they wanted to shock or offend other people? That is what littering does-----it offends others.

It sure does not take "smarts" to be offended by trash blowing around, just like it does not take "smarts" to take a bath. It is kinda like, "duh", at least to me. Are you telling me that we had to be "taught" not to litter???? I simply cannot buy that. It makes no sense to me. My family considered littering a capitol crime, and we would have been grounded forever if we had ever done that, and none of us EVER did-----EVER!!!!

Am I missing something here??


Lady Bird Johnson made "beautifying America" her pet First Lady project. This was the start of a major national anti-littering campaign, as well as efforts to better landscape the nation's capitol. Early 1960's.

And today, keeping the country litter free is still an ongoing task. Work crews and adopt-a-highway programs to keep roadside clean, etc.

And where no one picks up litter? Ask an ice fisherman from up near our part of Montana...they say that you can drill a hole in the ice in the shallows of any lake and look down and see an aluminum can.

Lately there have been more clean up crews on the roads and beaches in Baja.

?????

fdt - 3-25-2006 at 07:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
It is kinda like, "duh", at least to me. Are you telling me that we had to be "taught" not to litter???? I simply cannot buy that. It makes no sense to me.
Am I missing something here??

You mean to say that you were born knowing all of this and you were never "taught" not to litter???
I have to tell my kids every day, from dirty plates to clothes.
As for the hostility, it's probably due to your post number 666 :?:

David K - 3-25-2006 at 08:07 PM

Barry, remember the commercials in the 60's-70's with the Indian shedding a tear as trash was thrown out of cars driving by...? Or, 'Give a hoot, don't pollute'...

Throwing trash without thought from an auto was highly practiced before this education and awareness... Now, the only people who I see regularly toss 'trash' are cigarette smokers with their butts...

I am sure there are plenty exceptions to the habits of the majority both here and in Mexico.

Come on, guys------------

Barry A. - 3-25-2006 at 08:57 PM

-------you KNOW what I mean!! Of course you are not "born" knowing not to litter, but it becomes really obvious really fast when one opens their eyes------nobody had to tell me-----I repeat, "Duh"------that was what the picture starting this thread is all about, it seems to me-------it is OBVIOUS!!! The fact that the sign was in the pic, also, is the most absurd part, at least to me------what does it take for people to see the OBVIOUS?? (sigh)

bbbait - 3-26-2006 at 12:10 PM

Is anyone close or going that way so we could get a current photo of the same view? Might be interesting.

Littering and education

TripleG - 3-27-2006 at 10:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Barry, remember the commercials in the 60's-70's with the Indian shedding a tear as trash was thrown out of cars driving by...? Or, 'Give a hoot, don't pollute'...

Throwing trash without thought from an auto was highly practiced before this education and awareness... Now, the only people who I see regularly toss 'trash' are cigarette smokers with their butts...

I am sure there are plenty exceptions to the habits of the majority both here and in Mexico.



I remember my first trip to CSL and a drive to Todo Santos, and the road was the worst littering I had ever seen. A couple of years later my wife and I were on a whale watching bus, and I asked one of the guides why the Resorts didn't send crews to pickup litter instead of spending so much time and effort in painting the road curbs red.

I was told that the young ones in school were being taught that this was wrong and this was a start. I notice that the Resorts are now policing the road to Todo Santos, and the effert is very noticable.

Trash dump

BajaDanD - 3-29-2006 at 12:54 AM

I believe the picture was taken just after you cross the long bridge heading south, so. of El Rosario. that is a local trash dump sometimes stuff blows all over that area and sometimes its a little better its not from people throwing trash out their car windows there is way to much trash for that there.

Bob H - 3-29-2006 at 05:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bbbait
Is anyone close or going that way so we could get a current photo of the same view? Might be interesting.


That WOULD be interesting! Great idea.

David K - 3-29-2006 at 09:51 AM

I am going to El Rosario next week... I will get a photo.

As promissed

David K - 4-10-2006 at 11:44 PM

The No Tire Basura sign is gone!!! 4-8-06

David K - 4-10-2006 at 11:45 PM

more...

David K - 4-10-2006 at 11:46 PM

View back towards El Rosario...

Barry;

neilm - 4-11-2006 at 07:59 AM

Have you ever owned a rental? I was astounded to see the kind of filth and degredation some 'humans' will live in..... when they're just too lazy to pick up after themselves. The litter they throw on the highway is not much compared to what some live in. I've had to clean the crud out of houses with a shovel.

Not in that business any more, gracias dios!

Neil

trash

tehag - 4-11-2006 at 08:13 AM

That dump, El Rosario, is typical of small-town dumps. There are many in the US just as bad. The trash isn't burried often, if at all, so wind has its way with the lighter stuff. Also there is no enforcement of the actual dump site, so to save time and avoid tire damage, people tend to dump ever closer to the ingress road until the highway and the dump sort of merge. Education of individuals AND authorities can help ? over time.

As far as tossing goes, programs are popping up all over Baja to both educate against and clean up after. All the schools are into it now. Kid pressure can be strong stuff on parents. Whether it's ignorance or contempt, society can change it if it will.

Pompano - 4-11-2006 at 09:05 AM

'Some' dumps in Baja are meeting grounds for many...the one next to Posada in Conception Bay is filled with usable stuff. I am not squeamish about walking around the area. A lot of it I put there over the years..but I have rooted around in there many a time looking for a possible part or substitute for a needed thing. This particular dump is a treasure trove area, as many a veteran Conception beach camper knows, and whenever I drive by on the highway, I generally see someone out searching through the debris.

Once, about 15 years or so ago, I was off-loading a heavy, old, defunct Servel gas refrigerator that I was disgusted with...having spent way too much time and money keeping it working as a beer cooler. As I was getting ready to shove it off into the area where the other scrap metal stuff was located, a nice-mannered fellow from Posado came over and looked at that old fridge. 'Excuse me', he says, 'but if you don't want that Servel, do you mind if I take it? I might get it to work again.'

'Of course not', I said 'Be my guest.'

I helped slide it into his truck box and we became friends..and we owe that friendship to a chance meeting at a dump. Whenever we have met again over the years we always hark back to that day at the dump.

By the way, he purged the coils, got it recharged, burped it, and got that dang fridge going...It is still cooling his beer to this day. Sheesh...!

That dump is slowly..slowly..being cleaned up as I write... plastics bagged, bulldozed, and generally becoming less of an eyesore to the highway tourists...

..but the locals know there is still 'treasure' out there.

Cypress - 4-11-2006 at 09:20 AM

Have never been able to understand why people throw trash out along the roads or dump in otherwise clean areas. :barf: Fast food containers etc., maybe the dumper is supposed to be on some sort of diet and is getting rid if the evidence? Is it a gene thing? Any paper or plastic will blow out of the back of a pickup if not weighted down.

Pompano - 4-11-2006 at 10:05 AM

Cypress and all, you can always do a 'adopt a highway' portion to clean up the trash in your area, as we do Up North...no reason not to do the same in Baja. Most of us do what we can along our neighborhood highway...it works and brings attention to the problem.

Trash

Cypress - 4-11-2006 at 12:06 PM

Pompano. Good advice. Know what you're talking about. Guess I'm a little lazy. Have a full time just cleaning up my own mess. Will try to do better!:(

David K - 4-11-2006 at 06:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tehag
That dump, El Rosario, is typical of small-town dumps. There are many in the US just as bad. The trash isn't burried often, if at all, so wind has its way with the lighter stuff. Also there is no enforcement of the actual dump site, so to save time and avoid tire damage, people tend to dump ever closer to the ingress road until the highway and the dump sort of merge. Education of individuals AND authorities can help ? over time.

As far as tossing goes, programs are popping up all over Baja to both educate against and clean up after. All the schools are into it now. Kid pressure can be strong stuff on parents. Whether it's ignorance or contempt, society can change it if it will.


Just for clarification, that photo of the trash near Mex. 1 is over 5 miles from El Rosario (center of town at the sharp curve/ Espinoza's).

There is also a trash dump area along the 'high' road going west from town to La Bocana Beach/ Diamante Del Mar.

If it is just out of sight of town, it seems to be tolerated...

Perhaps, with all the great things happening in this little town a 'Clean El Rosario' project could happen next?

neilm------

Barry A. - 4-11-2006 at 07:19 PM

-----I became good friends with my landlord in Folsom, CA and he had about 35 rentals, all fairly nice duplexes and condos, in and about Sacramento. It was he, and his father's, full time job just taking care of them. The horror stories he told me was enough to convince me to forget about being a "landlord", and he was dealing with supposedly middleclass working folks.

I just do not understand folks that defile their own nests, let alone the countryside around them. It is so sad!!! (I think they are "hostile" towards their fellow man, and have no respect for themselves, despite what others here appear to think)

The idea of forming "litter squads" in Baja is great!!!! I always carry one of those little plastic grocery bags with me in my knapsack on in my pocket, so that I can at least pick up some of the small litter that I find on my walks. Makes me feel good, if you know what I mean. :tumble:

villadelfin - 4-11-2006 at 11:55 PM

We were at the beach today along the road to San Juan de la Costa and because of Semana Santa, whole camp towns sprung up within hours. the first thing that went up were canopies, next came homemade porta potties, then people began picking up litter! It was amazing to see and very welcome. The local government is exhorting people to keep the beaches clean

David K - 4-12-2006 at 12:03 AM

That's WONDERFUL!!!

Thanks for reporting the good news...

bajalou - 4-12-2006 at 08:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by villadelfin
We were at the beach today along the road to San Juan de la Costa and because of Semana Santa, whole camp towns sprung up within hours. the first thing that went up were canopies, next came homemade porta potties, then people began picking up litter! It was amazing to see and very welcome. The local government is exhorting people to keep the beaches clean


Please give us a report next Mon or Tue after they leave.

wilderone - 4-12-2006 at 09:04 AM

I'll join a trash squad if others are interested.

villadelfin - 4-12-2006 at 09:45 AM

It really amazes me the way people flick trash out their car windows here. Yes, I too grew up with the crying Indian. Curbside waste hauling is free and comes twice a week in La Paz.

I've also seen where the local government has placed trash drums out for public use. Someone comes along, dumps the trash in a heap, and turns the drum into a "private" trash drum next to their house.

Small comfort in the fact that the shopping bags from Ley, CCC and Aramburo are the cornstarch based biodegradable kind

Cypress - 4-12-2006 at 11:08 AM

How much trouble would it be to identify the folks that litter? Set up a camera or two. Get the culprits on film, and give 'em the choice of paying a serious fine, jail time, or cleaning-up X miles of Hwy. Realize dark o'clock offenders might be a problem, but it's a step in the right direction.

burro bob - 4-13-2006 at 02:49 PM

This is Mexico not the US. Mexicans seldom get tickets from the police. They can't pay any fine and the cops know this ... so no ticket. Surveilance cameras would be stolen within hours after being placed.
The only real long term solution is simply to be a good example. Joining a clean up crew (there are several in San Felipe that gather up trash along the highway) is not only a great way to meet locals but also shows the litterers that people do care about the trash.
Giving Mexicans tickets for littering will only increase the amount of trash out there by roughly the same amount as the number of tickets given.
burro bob