BajaNomad - Update: Magote Construction stopped

Update: Magote Construction stopped

gnukid - 11-27-2008 at 08:43 PM

I have spoken to many workers and associates and they report that most construction has been stopped on Magote and that the access road was closed. The design of the large structures is hardly sufficient and they may already be leaning and weakened. The workers say that they still take some workers but they are often unpaid or paid very little and have uncertainty whether the pangas will go or not or if the bus will transport them. So now those workers are looking for work and housing, many are squatting in groups and "finding" money through alternate methods.

Some people did go to Magote to live but now they are left without access and without services and security. Some workers report that the buildings are being looted now... of materials and this being allowed. Its difficult to know what is the truth but traffic is very low.

The story of Magote is not uncommon, it seems to exceptionally common as we saw with Grande Baja etc...

It seems many projects are stopped due to lack of funds but there are still some people working. Many taller shops are totally shut down in the region. Though on the upside seems this is great for those who are visiting, who are building or buying as the workers who do work are happy to and the cost of homes has dropped as have rates. Local quality shops remain successful though rare.

Take this for what its worth, just observation and heresay. It could be a great time buy and build in Baja. If you do, be very cautious and more so be realistic, expect difficulties and unfinished work as the norm and do not pay before you have completed papers by a Notaria. Remember that agency laws do not exist and most sales are person to person sales which are completed by the Notaria who is the only one qualified and capable to do so. An agent or lawyer often will charge outrageous fees and be of no help at all. From my experience there are no real estate agents. They are not part of the process.

So please all of you who are thinking of buying get the idea of US brokerages, laws and guarantees out of your head, it doesn't work that way in Baja though it can if you find someone who respects the traditions. I have heard of and seen way too many people hand over money to see it disappear fast with no recourse but that won't happen if you wait for all papers to be complete by the notary and pay after signing all docs by all parties.

Hope this is helpful to someone.

[Edited on 12-7-2008 by gnukid]

fdt - 11-27-2008 at 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
So now those workers are looking for work and housing, many are squatting in groups and "finding" money through alternate methods.

Aguas!

rogerj1 - 11-27-2008 at 11:20 PM

Is this the Paraiso del Mar project? I have several acquaintances who've paid for property here. Are you suggesting they're at risk?

Marie-Rose - 11-28-2008 at 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid

Take this for what its worth, just observation and heresay. It could be a great time buy and build in Baja. If you do, be very cautious and more so be realistic, expect difficulties and unfinished work as the norm and do not pay before you have completed papers by a Notaria. Remember that agency laws do not exist and most sales are person to person sales which are completed by the Notaria who is the only one qualified and capable to do so. An agent or lawyer often will charge outrageous fees and be of no help at all. From my experience there are no real estate agents. They are not part of the process.

Hope this is helpful to someone.

SO TRUE!!!!!

oldlady - 11-28-2008 at 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rogerj1
Is this the Paraiso del Mar project? I have several acquaintances who've paid for property here. Are you suggesting they're at risk?

It is the Paraiso del Mar project.

gnukid - 11-28-2008 at 07:10 AM

I only wrote because I am on site and there are few if any boats going like there used to be, the buses are not running and there are no more meals being prepared etc... personally I know many workers who explained in detail about whats happening from their perspective.

They are asked to come but then they are turned away, those who do get to work are not building and they get offered to be paid less then are not paid. They believe that the money does not exist and will not exist and that it has been abandoned financially. The money just does not exist and there is a great deal of work that would be needed to make a viable living center.

More so, it was an illegal sale of the land and project is ethically wrong to build on a sand bar especially a high rise without a deep foundation and proper structure.

They say that the road was closed to people who bought there and that there is looting being allowed because that way the burden to prove what it happening will occur sooner. Even they said that the workers were encouraged to take what they can in the night.

Now its possible that the government shall acknowledge all this and take ownership and save the project, though in light of financial concerns and past proven record it seems unlikely to prove successful.

So it seems these larger projects are vulnerable and even more so than a small one to many complications. The idea that moving into a community development will bring more stability is not proven and that independent projects are more likely to progress organically and successfully.

I do not know much about it, but I would suggest that buyers take the time now to pursue their legal options and try to demonstrate that there has been financial and processorial negligence and there are responsible parties who should be pursued legally in whatever way possible with the knowledge that little will come of that.

Now in the mean time prepare for a series of grand reports that new finances are guaranteed and fantastic progress is occurring. More lies, more lies and more lies while an eyesore which has damaged La Paz will remain in ruins like so many other grand overbuilt nonsensical projects.

If you have a tendency toward outrage, now is a good time.

baja Steve - 11-28-2008 at 07:33 AM

Where is this project located

oldlady - 11-28-2008 at 07:37 AM

It is on the tip of a peninsula that extends into the Bay of La Paz. It has a website, paradiseofthesea.com. You can read all the marketing details there.

Jack Swords - 11-28-2008 at 07:45 AM

Wow, this sounds like the story going around on the "day of the Innocents" about one of the buildings falling down. We're headed down Monday and I can't wait to inflate the dink and go out to the Magote and explore the "ruins". This project has certainly been a blight on La Paz. Used to hike all over the Magote, perhaps once again. Maybe some pangas can run tourists over on tours of these monuments. Gnukid, keep us informed as you find out more information.

gnukid - 11-28-2008 at 08:26 AM

Jack thats a neat idea and very positive. It seems we should look at these ruins as lessons in history and try to appreciate them for the demonstration of the character of the people.

Again, I have no idea what is the truth, though I have a theory which I am expressing. Its often difficult for Americans to see the truth in light of the glitz and glamour of promotion. Its very confusing but I think more and more we must as Nomads be prescient, to see what is rally happening and use the past to predict the future instead of believing the hype of promotion of fantastic presales which simply do not pan out, ever, except on rare occasions.

Also I think we need to place blame on the promoters, their underwriters and those officials who sign off on these deals as they are truly parties to a crime, if they misled investors. And I think they have in this case as they have on so many grand schemes.

While it is sad for those who have lost the life savings, their future retirement and for the wealthy who lost, its also equally sad for the familes of workers who are being cheated and lied to, those who arrived from other parts to work there are now squatting the empty homes and dirt lots of Manglito Barrio of la paz where previously people had rented. Its a very desperate scene.

They sit in the dirt, babies and children and ask for water and food from passerbys and are truly a sad sight that is a huge burden on the few Pacenos who do work. They are left to rob people in order to eat and now a large economy of thieves is prevalent. Of course they don't like barb wire and broken glass so they go for easy pickings like other poor pacenos who have little to offer. Its quite a sad sight of desperation while even the security forces are unwilling to help, what can you do to stop desperate people? Its not like its against the law to be desperate.

I think we need to ask ourselves if government who processed the sale has some responsibility here to ensure security and to be sure we place the blame correctly. This was no accident. It is quite obvious that these deals are done with little regard for anyone but the individuals who profit at the top and those are the few government officials who sign off on these deals.

longlegsinlapaz - 11-28-2008 at 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack Swords
Wow, this sounds like the story going around on the "day of the Innocents" about one of the buildings falling down. We're headed down Monday and I can't wait to inflate the dink and go out to the Magote and explore the "ruins". This project has certainly been a blight on La Paz. Used to hike all over the Magote, perhaps once again. Maybe some pangas can run tourists over on tours of these monuments. Gnukid, keep us informed as you find out more information.

It certainly is a blight on La Paz & on El Mogote as well! They've done irreparable harm to the area by dozing out mangroves & stripping the land of natural vegetation; IMO, the first big storm, the tip of Mogote will move closer to the Malecon! The structures there were built on "shifting sands" & built poorly.

While I do feel sorry for the people who "bought into" that project both monetarily & emotionally, I feel sorrier for the plight of the imported workers who now have little or no legitimate means to feed & house their families & for the people of La Paz who have to look at it everyday! I'm angry they destroyed Mogote in the name of "development". I, for one, hope that these rumors are true, but IMO it'll be an even worse crime if the developer is allowed to simply abandon the structures there to remain a blight on the view from La Paz! I'd much rather see them be forced to remove everything & begin to restore the land to give it a tiny bit of encouragement to return to it's original state. But if I were to believe the likelihood of that happening, then I'd be a gullible as the people with more money then common sense that bought into the project in the first place! :no:

fdt - 11-28-2008 at 09:41 AM

http://www.badwishtobuyparaiso.org/

capitolkat - 11-28-2008 at 10:04 AM

I was in La paz this week and the Paraiso sales office was open for business-- the lights were on every night at the project and visible from El Comitan. We drove down the road to the project until it became too washboardy for our rental car. we asked some locals in the real estate business who informed us the first 6 holes of the golf course are in- don't get me wrong- i think the project is crazy-- 16 foot mean elevation== sandy base for high rises-- a looong drive from the town and the transport on the little barge in high winds could be very exciting== but I think accurate information is hard to come by as there are so many that hope the project fails and that may color the reports.

longlegsinlapaz - 11-28-2008 at 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fdt
http://www.badwishtobuyparaiso.org/

Excellent find, fdt!

How so?

Dave - 11-28-2008 at 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
More so, it was an illegal sale of the land

Who owned the land, approved the sale, processed the documents?

longlegsinlapaz - 11-28-2008 at 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capitolkat
== but I think accurate information is hard to come by as there are so many that hope the project fails and that may color the reports.

Norm.....GUILTY on that hope part!! :lol:

But I do try to remain factual, rather than embellishing with my Crayolas. :saint:

flyfishinPam - 11-28-2008 at 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz

Quote:

Originally posted by capitolkat
== but I think accurate information is hard to come by as there are so many that hope the project fails and that may color the reports.

Norm.....GUILTY on that hope part!! :lol:

But I do try to remain factual, rather than embellishing with my Crayolas. :saint:

accurate information is definitely hard to come by on the seller's (developers) websites, the owner glorified blogs (misery loves company) and in those "news" stories that are nothing but buttkissing hype. LOVE that website fdt and I also LOVE some of the thoughts on the Spanish language blogs that out there on these projects.
Projects in Loreto are slowing down BIGTIME too. I think the credit crunch has a lot to do with it, a.k.a. smoke and mirrors.

lingililingili - 11-29-2008 at 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rogerj1
Is this the Paraiso del Mar project? I have several acquaintances who've paid for property here. Are you suggesting they're at risk?

Really curious if you've mentioned this to your acquaintances and how they have reacted and if they have any first hand information on this.

vandenberg - 11-29-2008 at 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lingililingili

Really curious if you've mentioned this to your acquaintances and how they have reacted and if they have any first hand information on this.

These folks are usually the very last to know.
Likely, like the Loreto Bay ones, when they do get wind of this, they keep telling each other to " hang in there ", " things will improve ".
Just like " If me aunt had cojones, she'd be me uncle. :biggrin:

lingililingili - 11-29-2008 at 10:05 AM

It's a sad state of affairs all the way around.

vandenberg - 11-29-2008 at 10:19 AM

And showing that I'm not just spouting my opinion, here's a message we just received from Vancouver,

The "Gang" must be made up by me and our dog and cat.

BTW, these folks are fully paid up and their "Casa" a long way from completion. :no:

Hello Barb & Gang,

Hope you are all well and that you had a good Thanksgiving.
Hey, what's this we hear about raw sewage from the Inn, what's next?!
Can't get much worse than that......& for 4 days, that's pretty sad.
We are @ a loss as to, what is going on with Loreto Bay Co.
There is basically no effort @ any communication on their part, I don't
know how they expect to be successful. But we are still hopeful, largely due to the people
that are making this community.

[Edited on 11-29-2008 by vandenberg]

flyfishinPam - 11-29-2008 at 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg

Quote:

Originally posted by lingililingili

Really curious if you've mentioned this to your acquaintances and how they have reacted and if they have any first hand information on this.

yeah they're hanging on all right... I hear the Barnes and Noble will be opening up there soon and it will be next to the Trader Joes and the Ann Taylor outlet emporium. :lol:

flyfishinPam - 11-29-2008 at 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
.......
......
Hey, what's this we hear about raw sewage from the Inn, what's next?!
Can't get much worse than that......& for 4 days, that's pretty sad.
We are @ a loss as to, what is going on with Loreto Bay Co.
There is basically no effort @ any communication on their part, I don't
know how they expect to be successful. But we are still hopeful, largely due to the people
that are making this community.

[Edited on 11-29-2008 by vandenberg]

an old trick is when the creditors keep calling and you can't pay your bills you just stop answering the phone and the mail.....of course that's second hand information you know :spingrin:

cmlongiii - 11-29-2008 at 01:14 PM

I am very concerned about this and many other developments in Baja that seem to have closed up shop or are just going through the motions to collect deposits from unsuspecting tourists. I would ask that any nomads that have any info on this happening anywhere in Baja to post on this info board. Perhaps we might save someone from a financial loss that they might not be able to afford. Its a sad thing that some would use the economic slowdown to skip out of town with money that does not belong to them.

Jack Swords - 11-29-2008 at 04:51 PM

Gnukid...I know you have a dink (or did last year). How about running out to the Magote and checking it out? We'll arrive on Thursday (leaving tomorrow), but it takes a few days to get the boat habitable and the dink inflated. I'll get out there to wander around and visit with the "folks" as soon as I can and post the results. I'll bring the camera to show better or worse. Hopefully we can get more information before that.

motoged - 11-29-2008 at 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack Swords
Gnukid...I know you have a dink (or did last year). .... but it takes a few days to get the ... dink inflated.

Jack,

Uh, that's a nautical term is it? :lol:

Jack Swords - 11-29-2008 at 08:01 PM

DINGHY-A small rowboat that sometimes is rigged with a sail. Also called tender or dink.

Whatever one calls it, it'll get out there (Magote).

comitan - 11-29-2008 at 08:08 PM

Went by the access road today and it was open, I don't think there is anymore concern now than when the people bought the property, like Kate says there's always been rumors.

rogerj1 - 11-29-2008 at 11:53 PM

One of the people who's invested has talked about the possibility of losing his money. He's in the real estate business in Orange County and has several Mexican partners so should be knowledgeable. I was pretty surprised how little he knew about the history of the peninsula or what some of the problems in construction might be. The other person is my local mortgage broker. I'm not sure I want to break the news to him, he's had enough bad news lately as it is!

Faults on the Magote

sailor - 11-30-2008 at 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by capitolkat
I was in La paz this week and the Paraiso sales office was open for business-- the lights were on every night at the project and visible from El Comitan. We drove down the road to the project until it became too washboardy for our rental car. we asked some locals in the real estate business who informed us the first 6 holes of the golf course are in- don't get me wrong- i think the project is crazy-- 16 foot mean elevation== sandy base for high rises-- a looong drive from the town and the transport on the little barge in high winds could be very exciting== but I think accurate information is hard to come by as there are so many that hope the project fails and that may color the reports.

sailor - 11-30-2008 at 11:15 AM

In addition to the sandy substrata and low elevation of El Magote, potential buyers should also research the various fault lines that cross this sandy peninsula before deciding to invest in this development.

BajaGringo - 11-30-2008 at 11:20 AM

I have no personal interest or stake in this development and know very little about it but fault lines???

If we don't build near fault lines I guess most of the US west of the Rockies should be condemned...

:lol:

[Edited on 11-30-2008 by BajaGringo]

gnukid - 11-30-2008 at 12:43 PM

Update: I asked some of the workers who were out of work if they wanted to work and they said that they would have to wait by their house to be paid for the week past a few weeks ago from Magote. That there was a rumor that a woman was passing to pay the workers from the weeks past. And he said that he believes she will come for sure because another person saw her passing the next house the day before. So now I believe also that she will come with the money to pay them the week past and that they also will find more work with the project soon. We have compete confidence that its going fine fine.

vandenberg - 11-30-2008 at 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Update: I asked some of the workers who were out of work if they wanted to work and they said that they would have to wait by their house to be paid for the week past a few weeks ago from Magote. That there was a rumor that a woman was passing to pay the workers from the weeks past. And he said that he believes she will come for sure because another person saw her passing the next house the day before. So now I believe also that she will come with the money to pay them the week past and that they also will find more work with the project soon. We have compete confidence that its going fine fine.

Old Gnu,
I think I get the drift, but a translation would be nice.

Bronco - 11-30-2008 at 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rogerj1
One of the people who's invested has talked about the possibility of losing his money. He's in the real estate business in Orange County and has several Mexican partners so should be knowledgeable. I was pretty surprised how little he knew about the history of the peninsula or what some of the problems in construction might be. The other person is my local mortgage broker. I'm not sure I want to break the news to him, he's had enough bad news lately as it is!

You’re surprised that someone in OC who is in the "biz" knows so little about investing in Baja???? Everyone in OC has a RE license. It's another misconception of earning money quickly called GREED. Your local mortgage broker is probably looking for a place to park his 40' motorhome so he can hide and look for a new line of "work", if he is "knowledgeable"! I grew up in OC and the beach community, lost several properties in 78', the 90's and I finally am "knowledgeable." Sorry no sympathy here!

Katiejay99 - 11-30-2008 at 08:20 PM

I had a friend go out there yesterday. She spoke to several homeowners and they are happy. Lots of workers everywhere. Golf course is open. She reported that everything looks good including the construction (she is in the know about those things). SO - not sure where the info on the board is coming from, but perhaps some other nomads can take a look as well. I'm not especially interested in the place, I just like to investigate facts.

gnukid - 11-30-2008 at 09:52 PM

Definitely. Its back on strong.

Eugenio - 12-1-2008 at 12:13 AM

It's not Magote - it's Mogote.

The first would be a magician or sorcerer - mogote means a low hill or knoll - among other things.

bajalera - 12-1-2008 at 09:20 PM

The tip of the Mogote, opposite La Paz, is one of our favorite places for a late afternoon picnic. It's a fairly long drive, but the sun, setting behind you, glints off car windshields and the windows of buildings, and as it gets dark a surprisingly wide arc of lights brightens the night.

We went out there a week or so ago, expecting to drive on the beach, as usual, but it was blocked off with a rope between a couple of stakes. A very polite man told us beach driving was banned because turtles were laying eggs. Steve gave him a "Si, Chuy!" ["You gotta be kidding!"] response, but they chatted amiably for some time. There wasn't any activity at the development, and the guy said work had been halted.

We picnicked along the Mogote's north side, where eight or nine other vehicles--mostly pickups--were also parked at some distance from one another. I've never heard of turtles laying eggs on El Mogote, but someone said that this year they were laying them just off the Malecon, so it's not necessarily a sea story. The guy said beach driving would be reopened in 20 days, so we'll give it a try later.

gnukid - 12-6-2008 at 10:48 PM

I saw about 30-50 workers going to Mogote daily and they say they are busy.

vandenberg - 12-7-2008 at 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
I saw about 30-50 workers going to Mogote daily and they say they are busy.

That's about the amount of guys it takes to build a regular size house, if you want it done within 2 years. :no: