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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
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Update: Magote Construction stopped
I have spoken to many workers and associates and they report that most construction has been stopped on Magote and that the access road was closed.
The design of the large structures is hardly sufficient and they may already be leaning and weakened. The workers say that they still take some
workers but they are often unpaid or paid very little and have uncertainty whether the pangas will go or not or if the bus will transport them. So now
those workers are looking for work and housing, many are squatting in groups and "finding" money through alternate methods.
Some people did go to Magote to live but now they are left without access and without services and security. Some workers report that the buildings
are being looted now... of materials and this being allowed. Its difficult to know what is the truth but traffic is very low.
The story of Magote is not uncommon, it seems to exceptionally common as we saw with Grande Baja etc...
It seems many projects are stopped due to lack of funds but there are still some people working. Many taller shops are totally shut down in the
region. Though on the upside seems this is great for those who are visiting, who are building or buying as the workers who do work are happy to and
the cost of homes has dropped as have rates. Local quality shops remain successful though rare.
Take this for what its worth, just observation and heresay. It could be a great time buy and build in Baja. If you do, be very cautious and more so be
realistic, expect difficulties and unfinished work as the norm and do not pay before you have completed papers by a Notaria. Remember that agency laws
do not exist and most sales are person to person sales which are completed by the Notaria who is the only one qualified and capable to do so. An agent
or lawyer often will charge outrageous fees and be of no help at all. From my experience there are no real estate agents. They are not part of the
process.
So please all of you who are thinking of buying get the idea of US brokerages, laws and guarantees out of your head, it doesn't work that way in Baja
though it can if you find someone who respects the traditions. I have heard of and seen way too many people hand over money to see it disappear fast
with no recourse but that won't happen if you wait for all papers to be complete by the notary and pay after signing all docs by all parties.
Hope this is helpful to someone.
[Edited on 12-7-2008 by gnukid]
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
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Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
So now those workers are looking for work and housing, many are squatting in groups and "finding" money through alternate methods.
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Aguas!
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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rogerj1
Nomad
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Is this the Paraiso del Mar project? I have several acquaintances who've paid for property here. Are you suggesting they're at risk?
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Marie-Rose
Senior Nomad
Posts: 894
Registered: 10-2-2003
Location: Victoria, B.C. and Todos Santos
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Mood: Worried...
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
Take this for what its worth, just observation and heresay. It could be a great time buy and build in Baja. If you do, be very cautious and more so be
realistic, expect difficulties and unfinished work as the norm and do not pay before you have completed papers by a Notaria. Remember that agency laws
do not exist and most sales are person to person sales which are completed by the Notaria who is the only one qualified and capable to do so. An agent
or lawyer often will charge outrageous fees and be of no help at all. From my experience there are no real estate agents. They are not part of the
process.
Hope this is helpful to someone. |
SO TRUE!!!!!
Remember, when in Mexico, yes may be no and no may be
maybe!
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oldlady
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rogerj1
Is this the Paraiso del Mar project? I have several acquaintances who've paid for property here. Are you suggesting they're at risk?
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It is the Paraiso del Mar project.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
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I only wrote because I am on site and there are few if any boats going like there used to be, the buses are not running and there are no more meals
being prepared etc... personally I know many workers who explained in detail about whats happening from their perspective.
They are asked to come but then they are turned away, those who do get to work are not building and they get offered to be paid less then are not
paid. They believe that the money does not exist and will not exist and that it has been abandoned financially. The money just does not exist and
there is a great deal of work that would be needed to make a viable living center.
More so, it was an illegal sale of the land and project is ethically wrong to build on a sand bar especially a high rise without a deep foundation and
proper structure.
They say that the road was closed to people who bought there and that there is looting being allowed because that way the burden to prove what it
happening will occur sooner. Even they said that the workers were encouraged to take what they can in the night.
Now its possible that the government shall acknowledge all this and take ownership and save the project, though in light of financial concerns and
past proven record it seems unlikely to prove successful.
So it seems these larger projects are vulnerable and even more so than a small one to many complications. The idea that moving into a community
development will bring more stability is not proven and that independent projects are more likely to progress organically and successfully.
I do not know much about it, but I would suggest that buyers take the time now to pursue their legal options and try to demonstrate that there has
been financial and processorial negligence and there are responsible parties who should be pursued legally in whatever way possible with the knowledge
that little will come of that.
Now in the mean time prepare for a series of grand reports that new finances are guaranteed and fantastic progress is occurring. More lies, more lies
and more lies while an eyesore which has damaged La Paz will remain in ruins like so many other grand overbuilt nonsensical projects.
If you have a tendency toward outrage, now is a good time.
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baja Steve
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Where is this project located
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oldlady
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It is on the tip of a peninsula that extends into the Bay of La Paz. It has a website, paradiseofthesea.com. You can read all the marketing details
there.
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Jack Swords
Super Nomad
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Location: Nipomo, CA/La Paz, BCS
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Wow, this sounds like the story going around on the "day of the Innocents" about one of the buildings falling down. We're headed down Monday and I
can't wait to inflate the dink and go out to the Magote and explore the "ruins". This project has certainly been a blight on La Paz. Used to hike
all over the Magote, perhaps once again. Maybe some pangas can run tourists over on tours of these monuments. Gnukid, keep us informed as you find
out more information.
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gnukid
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Jack thats a neat idea and very positive. It seems we should look at these ruins as lessons in history and try to appreciate them for the
demonstration of the character of the people.
Again, I have no idea what is the truth, though I have a theory which I am expressing. Its often difficult for Americans to see the truth in light of
the glitz and glamour of promotion. Its very confusing but I think more and more we must as Nomads be prescient, to see what is rally happening and
use the past to predict the future instead of believing the hype of promotion of fantastic presales which simply do not pan out, ever, except on rare
occasions.
Also I think we need to place blame on the promoters, their underwriters and those officials who sign off on these deals as they are truly parties to
a crime, if they misled investors. And I think they have in this case as they have on so many grand schemes.
While it is sad for those who have lost the life savings, their future retirement and for the wealthy who lost, its also equally sad for the familes
of workers who are being cheated and lied to, those who arrived from other parts to work there are now squatting the empty homes and dirt lots of
Manglito Barrio of la paz where previously people had rented. Its a very desperate scene.
They sit in the dirt, babies and children and ask for water and food from passerbys and are truly a sad sight that is a huge burden on the few Pacenos
who do work. They are left to rob people in order to eat and now a large economy of thieves is prevalent. Of course they don't like barb wire and
broken glass so they go for easy pickings like other poor pacenos who have little to offer. Its quite a sad sight of desperation while even the
security forces are unwilling to help, what can you do to stop desperate people? Its not like its against the law to be desperate.
I think we need to ask ourselves if government who processed the sale has some responsibility here to ensure security and to be sure we place the
blame correctly. This was no accident. It is quite obvious that these deals are done with little regard for anyone but the individuals who profit at
the top and those are the few government officials who sign off on these deals.
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longlegsinlapaz
Super Nomad
Posts: 1685
Registered: 11-18-2005
Location: La Paz
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Jack Swords
Wow, this sounds like the story going around on the "day of the Innocents" about one of the buildings falling down. We're headed down Monday and I
can't wait to inflate the dink and go out to the Magote and explore the "ruins". This project has certainly been a blight on La Paz. Used to hike
all over the Magote, perhaps once again. Maybe some pangas can run tourists over on tours of these monuments. Gnukid, keep us informed as you find
out more information. |
It certainly is a blight on La Paz & on El Mogote as well! They've done irreparable harm to the area by dozing out mangroves & stripping the
land of natural vegetation; IMO, the first big storm, the tip of Mogote will move closer to the Malecon! The structures there were built on "shifting
sands" & built poorly.
While I do feel sorry for the people who "bought into" that project both monetarily & emotionally, I feel sorrier for the plight of the imported
workers who now have little or no legitimate means to feed & house their families & for the people of La Paz who have to look at it everyday!
I'm angry they destroyed Mogote in the name of "development". I, for one, hope that these rumors are true, but IMO it'll be an even worse crime if
the developer is allowed to simply abandon the structures there to remain a blight on the view from La Paz! I'd much rather see them be forced to
remove everything & begin to restore the land to give it a tiny bit of encouragement to return to it's original state. But if I were to believe
the likelihood of that happening, then I'd be a gullible as the people with more money then common sense that bought into the project in the first
place! 
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
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Location: Tijuana, Baja California
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http://www.badwishtobuyparaiso.org/
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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capitolkat
Senior Nomad
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I was in La paz this week and the Paraiso sales office was open for business-- the lights were on every night at the project and visible from El
Comitan. We drove down the road to the project until it became too washboardy for our rental car. we asked some locals in the real estate business who
informed us the first 6 holes of the golf course are in- don't get me wrong- i think the project is crazy-- 16 foot mean elevation== sandy base for
high rises-- a looong drive from the town and the transport on the little barge in high winds could be very exciting== but I think accurate
information is hard to come by as there are so many that hope the project fails and that may color the reports.
Life is too short to drink bad wine
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longlegsinlapaz
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Excellent find, fdt!
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Dave
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How so?
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
More so, it was an illegal sale of the land |
Who owned the land, approved the sale, processed the documents? 
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longlegsinlapaz
Super Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capitolkat
== but I think accurate information is hard to come by as there are so many that hope the project fails and that may color the reports.
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Norm.....GUILTY on that hope part!! But I do try to remain factual, rather than embellishing with my Crayolas.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
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Location: Loreto, BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
| Quote: | Originally posted by capitolkat
== but I think accurate information is hard to come by as there are so many that hope the project fails and that may color the reports.
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Norm.....GUILTY on that hope part!! But I do try to remain factual, rather than embellishing with my Crayolas. |
accurate information is definitely hard to come by on the seller's (developers) websites, the owner glorified blogs (misery loves
company) and in those "news" stories that are nothing but buttkissing hype. LOVE that website fdt and I also LOVE some of the thoughts on the Spanish
language blogs that out there on these projects.
Projects in Loreto are slowing down BIGTIME too. I think the credit crunch has a lot to do with it, a.k.a. smoke and mirrors.
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lingililingili
Nomad
Posts: 449
Registered: 2-24-2008
Location: La Paz, Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rogerj1
Is this the Paraiso del Mar project? I have several acquaintances who've paid for property here. Are you suggesting they're at risk?
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Really curious if you've mentioned this to your acquaintances and how they have reacted and if they have any first hand information on this.
•Life is just one damned thing after another
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vandenberg
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lingililingili
Really curious if you've mentioned this to your acquaintances and how they have reacted and if they have any first hand information on this.
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These folks are usually the very last to know.
Likely, like the Loreto Bay ones, when they do get wind of this, they keep telling each other to " hang in there ", " things will improve ".
Just like " If me aunt had cojones, she'd be me uncle.
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lingililingili
Nomad
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It's a sad state of affairs all the way around.
•Life is just one damned thing after another
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