BajaNomad - Rosarito police officer shot, killed in patrol pickup

Rosarito police officer shot, killed in patrol pickup

Dave - 12-13-2008 at 10:27 AM

For force, it's 8th slaying since Sept.

By Sandra Dibble
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

December 12, 2008

ROSARITO BEACH – A top-ranking police officer was shot to death early yesterday, becoming the eighth officer on the Rosarito Beach municipal force killed since late September.
Jesús MarNa Elizalde Romero was on duty when gunmen sprayed his pickup about 1:30 a.m., the Baja California Attorney General's Office said. Elizalde, who was in charge of department operations, was found inside his patrol pickup at the northern end of town along the toll road near the former Oasis Hotel.

A law enforcement official who asked not to be named because he is not authorized to speak to the media said Elizalde was in the company of a woman not connected to the department at the time of the attack. She was not injured.
Jorge Eduardo Montero, Rosarito's secretary of public safety, has ordered police to patrol in pairs for their safety, and it was unclear why there were no other officer nearby.

Drug traffickers increasingly have targeted law enforcement officers in Mexico in recent months. Some are killed for refusing to cooperate, but others because they work for a rival gang.

Elsewhere in Baja California yesterday, two decapitated bodies were found at 6:50 a.m. along the free road between Tecate and Mexicali. According to the Attorney General's Office, they were wrapped in transparent tape, and their heads were in a nearby bucket.

gnukid - 12-13-2008 at 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Drug traffickers increasingly have targeted law enforcement officers in Mexico in recent months. Some are killed for refusing to cooperate, but others because they work for a rival gang.

Interesting that although the crimes are completely unsolved, no arrests no witnesses, there is in the print the conclusion about who perpetrated the killing while no evidence exists to back this up? The fact is, the jump to conclusion is part of this whole operation. Murder-no arrest-conclusion it was traffickers.

I don't like this poor journalism. I think at this point I can conclude in agreement with so many previous posters that Sandy Dibble is a shill.

woody with a view - 12-13-2008 at 11:06 AM

anybody really think she would come down and dig around for a story??? i don't think i would...it's hard enough to just drive thru tj or rosey-rita on the way to somewhere else.

DENNIS - 12-13-2008 at 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Sandy Dibble is a shill.

She is an employee following guidelines set by the publisher. That said, her input is better than none at all which is what too many would like to see.
Anyway, it's just another edition of the same old story...scum eliminating scum. The cartels are doing the job the authorities wont do. I, for one, appreciate that.

gnukid - 12-13-2008 at 11:37 AM

I would agree completely as it seems newspaper journalists are forever, increasingly working with less resources to file more stories at the direction of a consolidating group of a publishers. At the same time, growing numbers of readers are dropping subscriptions of paper based news and pursuing an increasing number of alternatives. This means more work and less time to research for Ms Sandy Dibble and more work for alternative news writers.

Back to the particular subject; there is no evidence I have seen that underground drug cartels are behind this or many of the killings. There is evidence that the killers and in some cases victims were wearing police uniforms, that some were police, that the vehicles involved are official vehicles and that these are not investigated or pursued.

Furthermore, knowing the geography of Baja, the narrow peninsula, the lack of infrastructure requiring in most every case that vehicle travel the transpeninsular highway or backroads both of which are within a tight geography lacking cover of any sort, means that the vehicles which transport shooters are easily identifiable and located. A single plane or helicopter could easily locate the vehicle much as they do in California or anywhere, usually within minutes and with little chance for escape.

So, we can easily conclude, that the perps are not underground lawless drug traffickers.

We can conclude that the shooters in many cases are in official vehicles, in uniforms, trained, coordinated, cooperating, have ease in transit, are not pursued, and in so many words they are acting in an official capacity at the charge and under direction of top down orders to target and kill specific people and to terrorize as specified.

Now, finally. Whose to say this is a bad thing, little ol me? What do I know. We have a long list of current and retired military intelligence, police and investigators who shout down any suggestion on this board of any conclusion other than, fear cartels, fear cartels, fear cartels.

I appreciate those view points, I only offer, non-conclusively another logical point of view, based on the most basic observations about motive, means, who benefits...

I don't know whether to jump up and down and be happy to know we are not targeted by cartels or be even more in fear to know that the shooters are sanctioned, which somehow makes much more logical sense.

Barry, you can jump on the chorus bandwagon now. Thx in advance for your pro-police views.

[Edited on 12-13-2008 by gnukid]

DENNIS - 12-13-2008 at 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid

Back to the particular subject; there is no evidence I have seen that underground drug cartels are behind this or many of the killings. There is evidence that the killers and victims were wearing police uniforms, that some were police, that the vehicles involved are official vehicles and that these are not investigated or pursued.

OK....The above-ground arm of organized crime likes to wear a uniform. It's a shelf full of the same book in different covers. I appreciate your views, Gnu but, the elements don't lend themselves to clear distinction. Never have and the more important question today is, "Will they in the future." The processes of elimination within the ranks of law enforcement holds the key to the future of Mexico.

gnukid - 12-13-2008 at 12:15 PM

Dennis

You know I am well versed inside and out of these systems. I know personally a nice old lady who sells uniforms, black, green, grey, masks, all the accoutrements. In fact I am very familiar with this industry in Mexico. Most of the customers are in fact officials and few are not, I only know because I see the traffic of clients first hand.

Contrary to your comments, we do know that many victims are acting police some good and some bad. We also know from the autopsies of those released that many are identified as official police and military. Those that survived, some have publicly identified themselves as police and military as you may well recall.

Some do not identify themselves as official or otherwise for example the shooting of the jogger in Rosarito, he was apparently a Papas and Beer staff... While the second vicitm was an official on duty though with a woman who was not official and not killed.

So, Dennis, Barry, et al, we do have some evidence that many of you and Sandy Dibble would prefer to ignore. Who cares? Why do I care? Do I care?

I care only to the extent that I am interested in the facts and how the reports do not jive with the facts, I am also keenly interested in how invested some of you are in propping up the false conclusions? Makes me wonder, if all of this is at is appears, that is that these are by the vast majority official sanctioned murders, why are so many of us in support of the Big Lie.

I would guess that is due to programming and because you are good people who believe others people are good. Most of us here would like to have faith in police and military and in the news publications. Unfortunately there is far too much evidence to the contrary. Just as we can conclude in our minds that bad guys exist outdside of officialdom they certainly do within officialdom in Mexico and the USA. More so, power absolutely corrupts, power corrupts absolutely.

So, it seems that we can not as citizenry allow for a highly empowered government. We must maintain strict controls and provide for facilities for our servants to be closely surveiled at all times, we must closely manage our "peace officers" and "managers.'

As we look at the facts of our local state and federal managers--they are now running amuck, completely out of control and corrupt and this must end. The means to the end is citizen empowerment and control by managing our local cities. It is time to get involved wherever you live or we have lost our cities, states and country to corruption throughout.

Duck and cover

Dave - 12-13-2008 at 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Interesting that although the crimes are completely unsolved, no arrests no witnesses, there is in the print the conclusion about who perpetrated the killing while no evidence exists to back this up? The fact is, the jump to conclusion is part of this whole operation. Murder-no arrest-conclusion it was traffickers.

I don't like this poor journalism. I think at this point I can conclude in agreement with so many previous posters that Sandy Dibble is a shill.

Well, this is what I find interesting:

"Elizalde was in the company of a woman not connected to the department at the time of the attack. She was not injured."

Should we speculate on how it was that this woman survived or should we ask Sandy? :rolleyes:

BajaGringo - 12-13-2008 at 12:49 PM

The guy who brings us firewood to the house just left and told me that the cop who was killed was his neighbor and friend. Told me that he was an all round "good guy", lived a very simple, humble lifestyle fitting the salary of a Rosarito cop and seemed genuinely interested in the kids of his neighborhood knowing the dangers of drugs and keeping out of trouble. His description of the guy doesn't seem to fit a cop on the take.

If true it is a very sad event indeed...

DENNIS - 12-13-2008 at 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
I know personally a nice old lady who sells uniforms, black, green, grey, masks, all the accoutrements.

Contrary to your comments, we do know that many victims are acting police some good and some bad.
Some do not identify themselves as official or otherwise for example the shooting of the jogger in Rosarito, he was apparently a Papas and Beer staff...

So, Dennis, Barry, et al, we do have some evidence that many of you and Sandy Dibble would prefer to ignore.

I care only to the extent that I am interested in the facts and how the reports do not jive with the facts, I am also keenly interested in how invested some of you are in propping up the false conclusions? i

in support of the Big Lie.

I would guess that is due to programming and because you are good people who believe others people are good. Most of us here would like to have faith in police and military and in the news publications.

Wow...Where did I go wrong? What did I say that only you are aware of?
I agree with you on probably all your points and have never praised good police. It's their job and responsibility to be good and shouldn't require adulation for doing what they volunteered for and get paid to do. My scope of interest has always been cynical at best when talking of law enforcement.

Somebody here who probably knows mentioned the blown-away jogger was a bad guy. Stands to reason. Rosarito is a snake pit but it's not a penny arcade where thugs are target practicing at runners.

Uniforms for sale? That's nice. I'm glad to see that a little old lady can maintain a cottage industry in the face of internet shoppers. It's all available online.

What false conclusions? What Big Lie? Who here has been more outspoken in disgust of official corruption than I? I think it's at least one of the reasons I've been rewarded with a "Time Out." I don't ignore anything 'cause I don't have to as Ms. Dibble evidently does. I only give thanks that we have an opinion, albeit censored, form outside the country. What's your choice? Sandra Dibble or Hugo Torres/Baja Times?

OK..Gnu. Buy a box of Pacifico, open all of them and suck'em up. Send me the bill. :tumble:

DENNIS - 12-13-2008 at 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
The guy who brings us firewood to the house just left and told me that the cop who was killed was his neighbor and friend. Told me that he was an all round "good guy", lived a very simple, humble lifestyle fitting the salary of a Rosarito cop and seemed genuinely interested in the kids of his neighborhood knowing the dangers of drugs and keeping out of trouble. His description of the guy doesn't seem to fit a cop on the take.

If true it is a very sad event indeed...

He probably wasn't on the take, Ron. That's why he was blown up. Probably knew too much and wouldn't cooperate. I don't know how these two factions within police departments, the good and the bad, can co-habitate. That was my reference above to the war within law enforcement being the key to the future.

gnukid - 12-13-2008 at 01:16 PM

Sorry Dennis-you're right.

DENNIS - 12-13-2008 at 01:20 PM

Make that two boxes.

BajaGringo - 12-13-2008 at 01:38 PM

I have been told that the good/bad cops don't "cohabitate". The version that was explained to me is that they run in two different groups and generally in fear of each other. One side afraid they will be turned in and the other side fearing they will end up like this cop, left dead on the side of the road if they do turn someone in.

I can't even imagine what it must be like or what fortitude the good cops must have to be able to keep going to work every day. The stress alone would probably do me in.

As things continue to go bad here our decision to build and move south seems smarter every day.

I'll make some fish tacos if I can have one of those Pacificos...

[Edited on 12-13-2008 by BajaGringo]

DENNIS - 12-13-2008 at 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
I have been told that the good/bad cops don't "cohabitate". The version that was explained to me is that they run in two different groups and generally in fear of each other. One side afraid they will be turned in and the other side fearing they will end up like this cop, left dead on the side of the road if they do turn someone in.

So, since it's as you say,Ron, the police department isn't in the fight against organized crime. Half [or whatever] won't and the other half can't.
We're all screwed.
Pacificos all around while we're still able.

It's difficult to punch yourself in the face

Dave - 12-13-2008 at 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
the police department isn't in the fight against organized crime.

They are organized crime.

DENNIS - 12-13-2008 at 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

They are organized crime.

I know what you mean, Dave. I like to believe that all are not. Maybe gnukid was right.

BajaGringo - 12-13-2008 at 02:38 PM

You are so right Dennis. I am getting my bottle opener...

About what?

Dave - 12-13-2008 at 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Maybe gnukid was right.

Mostly, I have no idea what he's saying. My brain tells me it's all gibberish. Maybe you could translate for me. :rolleyes:

Dave - 12-13-2008 at 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
You are so right Dennis. I am getting my bottle opener...

Uh...You guys wouldn't mind if I drank Modelo?

I am cursed with a refined palate. :rolleyes:

[Edited on 12-13-2008 by Dave]

BajaGringo - 12-13-2008 at 02:56 PM

With fish tacos and a lot of hot salsa they all taste the same...

:lol:

DENNIS - 12-13-2008 at 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Uh...You guys wouldn't mind if I drank Modelo?

Make that Negra Modelo and I'll join you.

Sure

Dave - 12-13-2008 at 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Make that Negra Modelo and I'll join you.

Glad to know someone drinks the stuff. I know there's some in the beer box. I'll just have to find my flashlight.

gnukid - 12-13-2008 at 03:12 PM

I'll tell you a story:

At times I am in great fear when I realize who, what, where and I see they are around me, on my street, talking to me and at times challenging me. Then there are times when I have no fear, I find myself beyond any fear and I encounter them. I do not know why I do it except perhaps to a right a simple wrong-I do not want bad guys in the neighborhood where they can influence the children, or seniors or teens or anyone.

So, more than once I went to the back rooms of ... well I just went to the back rooms. There the room had machine guns stacked on every wall, hundreds of gunsthey were held behind chain link with sliding gates. At the table was a large fellow and few minions. Their eyes were bloodshot as were mine and they smelled of beer like me.

We made lots of small talk, finally they asked what do I want. I said, "well there is child on my street who sells drugs. He was a good kid but now is not. Many of his friends are my friends. If he sells or gives drugs and another kid takes it, that kid may become a dealer. I know that people do drugs and someone has to sell the drugs but, these are children, some are young girls, some older girls. If we can save one child from starting, that kid can become something besides a drug dealer. He could become something great like a teacher or artist or maybe a great father or mother. That kid could be a friend to your kid or he may actually be your kid. Could we please leave the neighborhood to be quiet and peaceful and move the drug sales to the next street or many streets away to a place which is not full of children because if we do we might make a better city for our kids future and still the drugs could sold to the addicts."

The big guy looked at me and said, "No". "No way possible."

"Well, I understand," I replied. "I totally understand that a business is a business and it must be profitable. I know that of curse. But also we want to live a life and give at least some chance to some children to be able to function a little and become their dreams. Its possible to have both. Only that its fine for people to do drugs, but please give your own family the one chance to be free to make their choice by giving your child's friends the chance too. Or this circle will become a tornado that sucks everybody down with no chance for normalcy for anyone. Even one child or one viejto deserves this chance and in this case that person is you your child and your parents. So please move the drug sales to xxx location and let these children be free to live their lives."

"Well see." He replied.

After a few more of those conversations, some tears, some laughter and some hard stares things changed. The drug sales moved.

--------------

Next story:

In the middle of the night, like many times before, I got a call to go help someone.

I put on the nicest clothes I had and brought my dog and went. En route I found a police following me without lights. I went to the spot to meet. The police came out of their car with masks and rifles. I tried to not look scared.

I began slowly, "Good morning, its cold isn't it? I am from very far to the north and to the south too, so I am not so cold. I am comfortable. I do have a mask too but I don't need it today. Sometimes I wear it and mittens too. Not today. You are cold? How are you?

The masked gunmen replied, "Well not too cold. Its pretty nice this morning. Are you looking for a friend? We're fine, really."

"Well I am not really looking, just here to help relay and messages you may have to the Great Grandparents, Perhaps you know the Great Grandparents? George Washington Junior? Well they are a crazy family you know, I know because once I saw the Great Grandpa kill a squirrel and he ate it right there?"

"Ok"

Suddenly then a military humvee pulled right up, onto the sidewalk where we stood. It was manned by 6 commandos. The apparent officer unmasked got out and walked to me. "Are you here for a friend?"

"Well no not exactly, I am here for the family of the friend. Are you here for a friend? I guess we are all friends of someone, which is nice, to have friends, that is, because, well, at some point work is done and we want to relax with friends, no?"

There in the morning, I felt no chill but of the nine of us, seven had masks and gloves and rifles or machine guns. So I said, I going to go now. I know everything will be fine. I hope that everything works out well for everyone and I hope you have nice morning and a nice break at the end of the week. See you later."

Three hours later the "friend" called and said thank you, I don't know how you did it but we are fine now.

Barry A. - 12-13-2008 at 03:19 PM

GnuKid--------------

I "support" law enforcement, in general, because I have 30+ years---some with City Police (San Diego), and a lot with Federal LE, al beit with "resource" LE, drug interdiction, riot control, Pilot duties, etc., but not organized crime (??) and I NEVER saw any example of what you are talking about. I was both a field LE person, and a supervisor, and a Division Chief-------No corruption EVER (as far as I know) in the men and woman that I was associated with, nor any "dark operations".

Therefore I try to defuse and question what I see as a generally suspicious feeling about LE folks by many on this board, at least of USA law enforcement folks (Border Patrol & Customs, etc). I know very little about Mexican LE, so perhaps what you (and others) say does pertain to them-----I really don't know, but I am somewhat skeptical------in my 54 years of going to Mexico I have not encountered the corrupt cop you speak of, other than an occasional half-hearted attempt to extract mordida from me, tho never successfully. I even spent some time in my youth in the Mexican jails for crimes I did not commit, but was NEVER abused while there, and was treated fairly, by their standards anyway.

I apologize to all for deviating from the "thrust" of this thread, but I felt I should answer GnuKid since he referred to me in some of his posts.

Barry