BajaNomad - Border Patrol to close California plaza for new fence

Border Patrol to close California plaza for new fence

tigerdog - 1-17-2009 at 09:22 AM

This is a crying shame, IMO. From the Associated Press:

Quote:

A chain-link fence already divides Friendship Park, which separates Imperial Beach from Tijuana, Mexico. But the Border Patrol told local authorities at a Tuesday meeting that the plaza in Border Field State Park would be closed to the public for the construction of a larger fence structure, said Clay Phillips, superintendent of Border Field.

"Their No. 1 mission is to secure the border, and that's the basis on which they're closing this portion permanently," said Phillips.

Friendship Park, which was dedicated by first lady Patricia Nixon in the 1970s as a symbol of binational goodwill, is a federal enclave accessible to pedestrians and motorists only by going through the 800-acre Border Field park. It is paved with cement on both sides of the fence, overlooks the Pacific Ocean and has an obelisk that was planted shortly after the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo ended the Mexican-American War in 1848.

Read the whole story here: http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/border/275153

Here are some pictures I took a couple of years ago of Friendship Park and the Plaza. Tijuana, of course, is on the other side of that ugly fence.

First, here is the Plaza, with the small obelisk mentioned in the article in front of the fence and the lighthouse structure on the Tijuana side.

Another view of the Plaza and the picnic area of the park.

The border fence extends across the beach and into the ocean

And finally, a view of Imperial Beach from Friendship Park. That's a Border Patrol vehicle parked in the parking lot in the middle distance. Keeping an eye on things. This was in Spring, when the wildflowers were blooming. Very beautiful!

Woooosh - 1-17-2009 at 09:42 AM

The double fence is to halt the flow of illegal guns flowing south per Mexico's request. It should be triple and electrified if that is the true purpose.

tigerdog - 1-17-2009 at 10:01 AM

Oops. I didn't notice this subject was already addressed earlier here. Better have another cup of coffee and put on my reading glasses. Sorry.

But the pictures are nice... :rolleyes:

mtgoat666 - 1-17-2009 at 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
The double fence is to halt the flow of illegal guns flowing south per Mexico's request. It should be triple and electrified if that is the true purpose.

homelaND SECURITY's primary mission is to dehumanize the us-mex border. the org is run by heartless bureaucrats supported by an army of marooons.

Huh?

Dave - 1-17-2009 at 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
The double fence is to halt the flow of illegal guns flowing south per Mexico's request. It should be triple and electrified if that is the true purpose.

We're building a fence to protect Mexico from itself?

Idontheenkso

I guess the thousands of cars rolling south don't count. :rolleyes:

Woooosh - 1-17-2009 at 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
The double fence is to halt the flow of illegal guns flowing south per Mexico's request. It should be triple and electrified if that is the true purpose.

homelaND SECURITY's primary mission is to dehumanize the us-mex border. the org is run by heartless bureaucrats supported by an army of marooons.

Apparently those marooons are mexican. They want the USA to stop the flow of guns south while allowing the flow of illegal immigrants north at the same time. Huh?? Mexico just DEMANDED the USA act to stop the gun flow- so why complain? They asked for more border security and they are getting it.

There are plenty of humane places to cross the border- they are called Points Of Entry. Any place else you cross the border is illegal and inhumane by defintion.

What is inhumane is the idiotic process the USA makes Mexican go through get a legal visa to cross that border, not the border itself.

My own Mexican mother in law is still in tears because at her visa interview should could not prove she was no longer married to her dead husband. THAT is inhumane.

[Edited on 1-17-2009 by Woooosh]

Woooosh - 1-17-2009 at 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
The double fence is to halt the flow of illegal guns flowing south per Mexico's request. It should be triple and electrified if that is the true purpose.

We're building a fence to protect Mexico from itself?

Idontheenkso

I guess the thousands of cars rolling south don't count. :rolleyes:

You are correct! Mexico is stuck on stupid is the only answer. They want the fence- but don't even inspect all southbound cars.

Bajahowodd - 1-17-2009 at 01:23 PM

The most insane thing about the visa process is that the fee is non-refundable. So they take your money and then say no.

Woooosh - 1-17-2009 at 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
The most insane thing about the visa process is that the fee is non-refundable. So they take your money and then say no.

Actual cost (so far) to do get a US Visa to visit her grand children in the USA has been $1500 (so far) and two years time. We expect to pay another $400US for her to get the proper shots for a medical clearance (and this old lady can barely walk at her age) and another $200 for someone near the US consulate to fill out the final paperwork so we don't need to go back to Juarez. And this is just to visit, mind you- not to move to the USA.

All told will it will be about $2500 total and if they say no- you are correct- it's all gone. I'm 100% for legal immigration, and 100% against illegal immigration. I won't help anyone in my own family with coyote fees (although I understnad why they do it). We do offer safe shelter at our home to family and friends waiting for that coyote phone call tellingt hem when and where to meet to cross- and that is as far as I will go.

[Edited on 1-17-2009 by Woooosh]

Bajafun777 - 1-17-2009 at 02:04 PM

The cost of paper work on both sides of the Border and Time frames to do it are nuts for both USA and Mexico. I paid just as much to get Mexican Paperwork completed on wife's cousin for Mexican Citizenship paperwork completion. Both sides costs make it tough for anyone trying to do the right thing with those kind of dollars. We need to make it like the "Sentri" where you do most of the work online and then once reviewed bring in all your paperwork to prove it and then get your ID card mailed to you. If we can do this so easily in one fashion should also be able to do it in this Visa issues and citizenship issues from both sides, just my thoughts on it. Later, bajafun777

Woooosh - 1-17-2009 at 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajafun777
The cost of paper work on both sides of the Border and Time frames to do it are nuts for both USA and Mexico. I paid just as much to get Mexican Paperwork completed on wife's cousin for Mexican Citizenship paperwork completion. Both sides costs make it tough for anyone trying to do the right thing with those kind of dollars. We need to make it like the "Sentri" where you do most of the work online and then once reviewed bring in all your paperwork to prove it and then get your ID card mailed to you. If we can do this so easily in one fashion should also be able to do it in this Visa issues and citizenship issues from both sides, just my thoughts on it. Later, bajafun777

Your suggestion is way too smart, fair, efficient and practical to ever happen.
:saint:

Skip_Mac - 1-17-2009 at 03:19 PM

Thanks for the info and photos tigerdog. In my innocent years I dug Plio-Pleistocene fossils from this area. The fence was a few strands of rusty barbed wire on knocked over steel fence posts.. Sure there were footprints across the plowed fields to the north and helicopter and Immigration roundups. But there was not the instant hate flaming, abuse and inhumanity I read these days whenever the term immigrants is mentioned. At least half of my great grandfathers were illegal (white European) immigrants. So another tribute to tolerance is sacrificed for popular paranoia. What are we choosing to become, people. OOps, Wat are YOU choosing to become? I don't stand with the hate flamers.

Nice quote from Abbey too! We stand for what we stand on!

BajaGringo - 1-18-2009 at 01:02 PM

The US political history was one built on compromise and consensus. Today it has become a nation more and more divided on issues; legalization of drugs, abortion, immigration. Pick whichever one inspires you the most...

DianaT - 1-18-2009 at 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skip_Mac
So another tribute to tolerance is sacrificed for popular paranoia.

Nicely put. :yes:

Tigerdog, thanks for sharing the really nice pictures of our backyard. New fence will be even uglier.

Diane

BajaGringo - 1-18-2009 at 02:40 PM

You can see it from your place Diane?

DianaT - 1-18-2009 at 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
You can see it from your place Diane?

Not exactly. We have to walk 1/2 block to the beach and then south on the beach. When we walk that way, we usually stop at the river.

From one of our buildings here in IB, we can see the Tijuana Bull Ring on a clear day.

BTW, for anyone not familar with IB, we have the Tijuana Estuary which is a really interesting place---lots of birds etc., including lots of skunks that like to wander through town now and again. And at one time there were plans todredge it and make it into a boat harbor----glad they didn''t.

Diane

BajaGringo - 1-18-2009 at 03:06 PM

I drove out there last year and checked it out. Was stopped by border patrol agents several times. I guess my SUV with Baja plates made them nervous...

:lol:

Woooosh - 1-18-2009 at 04:42 PM

Maybe they thought you got lost looking for the film set of HBO "weeds"

BajaGringo - 1-18-2009 at 05:08 PM

:lol:

One of the guys that stopped me seemed truly perplexed as he was convinced that I was involved in something sinister. Told me that there was something "not right" about a US citizen driving a Baja plated vehicle, especially down there in that area of the border. I showed him my tarjeta de circulacion and Baja driver's license and that only seemed to get him more upset. After 10 minutes and another agent finally showed up to tell him it was ok. The guy still didn't want to believe it and it took a confirmation via radio from a superior to convince him to let me go. It did still bother him and I was instructed to "leave the area". I told him that this area was listed as a park on the road signs and map and asked why was I being asked to leave? He just told me that he was not going to ask me again and so I left.

Typical...

:mad:

[Edited on 1-19-2009 by BajaGringo]

Bajahowodd - 1-18-2009 at 07:38 PM

Duh. They had you pegged as a coyote. No? Hmmm. You do drive up and down Highway One alot. From your earlier post- Illegal drugs, abortion, immigration. Mayhaps you could have included gay marriage. None matter except as diversionary tactics, while those in power steal the public blind.

[Edited on 1-19-2009 by Bajahowodd]

BajaGringo - 1-18-2009 at 08:02 PM

Ding-Ding-Ding-Ding-Ding....

We have a winner!!!

tigerdog - 1-19-2009 at 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter

Quote:

Originally posted by Skip_Mac
So another tribute to tolerance is sacrificed for popular paranoia.

Nicely put. :yes:

Tigerdog, thanks for sharing the really nice pictures of our backyard. New fence will be even uglier.

Diane

You're welcome, Diane. Yes, the new fence will be even uglier and the sad thing (beyond the irony of razing a place called Friendship and the historical nature of the area) is that it's unnecessary. That part of the border ceased to be an illegal immigration crossing of any import long ago as it's patrolled to within an inch of its life already-- as was well documented here by BajaGringo :wow:

. The day we took those pictures the Border Patrol was very aware of us at all times, and we were an older very white couple with a dog, a camera and a picnic basket who could not possibly, by any stretch of the imagination, have been doing anything sinister. Really, I began to feel I was in some kind of gulag or George Orwell's 1984.

I'm tempted to post my photo of the bullring for you, but you've obviously seen it already many times.

For a while we thought about renting in IB (we like it there) but couldn't find a place at a reasonable price that would allow us to bring our fur child with us.

Oh well. Sigh.

DianaT - 1-19-2009 at 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tigerdog

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter

Quote:

Originally posted by Skip_Mac
So another tribute to tolerance is sacrificed for popular paranoia.

Nicely put. :yes:

Tigerdog, thanks for sharing the really nice pictures of our backyard. New fence will be even uglier.

Diane

For a while we thought about renting in IB (we like it there) but couldn't find a place at a reasonable price that would allow us to bring our fur child with us.

Oh well. Sigh.

With the economy, rents are down here, as are property values---besides, a big carrier, etc. is deploying which always makes for more vacancies.

Do post the picture of the bullring----please, would love to see it.

Oh, while they do patrol all of this area well, when the fog sets in, well, we have seen groups down by the rocks near Surf Camp and even abandoned boats. Walking one day when there was an abandoned boat, a Coast Guard Investigator gave us his card and asked us to call when we saw anything. We said of course, and yes sir, and then filed the card away.

We had lots of fun when we came back from Guatemala in an old van and had Guatemala Plates a few years back. We were in Calexico and liked driving some of the desert dirt roads---amazing how many Border Patrol Vehicles can appear out of nowhere. :yes:

Will be waiting for the bullring pictures.

Diane

Barry A. - 1-19-2009 at 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
:lol:

[Edited on 1-19-2009 by BajaGringo]

-----the Border Patrol agent was doing his job. I would expect nothing less from him, and contrary to popular belief he is highly trained.

I worked closely with Border Patrol for 13 years in the Imperial Valley and found almost all of them to be highly professional.

Barry

tigerdog - 1-19-2009 at 11:44 AM

I hadn't thought about the fog issue; I suppose even with the motion sensors some will slip by. I doubt the new fence will do much regarding the boats though.

I smiled at your signature; it reminded me of my grandmother's admonishment to us when we were kids: "The intent to deceive is the same as a lie." She was right of course.

Here's the bullring, and I've thrown in a couple of pics of flowers blooming, too. It was a great year for wildflowers.

BajaGringo - 1-19-2009 at 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
:lol:

I also showed him my US passport, proving I was a US citizen. The area is still listed as a park, so how was he doing his job in demanding that I leave the area???

There are some nice officers on the border patrol but as many who have to interact with them on a regular basis will tell you, they also have their share of jerks. Just because he has a job in law enforcement doesn't give him a free pass...

:rolleyes:

[Edited on 1-19-2009 by BajaGringo]

BajaGringo - 1-19-2009 at 11:54 AM

Great photos tigerdog - thanks for them and this thread...

tigerdog - 1-19-2009 at 12:17 PM

Quote:

There are some nice officers on the border patrol but as many who have to interact with them on a regular basis will tell you, they also have their share of jerks. Just because he has a job in law enforcement doesn't give him a free pass...

I've found over the years-- especially the last 3 or 4-- that the older and more experienced officers tend to be nicer, more courteous and very professional. The younger ones, newer to the game, are more likely to be, shall we say "overzealous". And you can't kid with those guys, either. Coming across the border at Lukeville, AZ one morning we got both an older and younger guy. When asked if we were US citizens, hubby said "Yes, but we're not sure what planet our alien friend here is from", pointing at our Pug who was sitting on my lap. The younger guy froze for a second and he started to go into his "danger" mode before the older guy laughed and waved us on.

We learned our lesson. We never joke anymore.

BajaGringo - 1-19-2009 at 12:26 PM

You are right about that tigerdog - I have noticed that the majority of those who have given me a problem are the younger ones and that was the case this day as well. The second guy who showed up was older and tried to convince him but the younger officer was convinced there was something wrong with a Gringo driving a Baja plated vehicle in the US and would not listen to the other officer, who even rolled his eyes in disbelief that the guy was getting this serious about the whole deal. I didn't mention that he had me out of my car, took my keys, frisked me and went through my entire vehicle.

I was stopped by another officer ten minutes before and once I rolled down my window and we talked he just waved me on. Some of these guys just need a bigger dose of maturity/common sense...

Barry A. - 1-19-2009 at 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
You are right about that tigerdog - I have noticed that the majority of those who have given me a problem are the younger ones and that was the case this day as well. The second guy who showed up was older and tried to convince him but the younger officer was convinced there was something wrong with a Gringo driving a Baja plated vehicle in the US and would not listen to the other officer, who even rolled his eyes in disbelief that the guy was getting this serious about the whole deal. I didn't mention that he had me out of my car, took my keys, frisked me and went through my entire vehicle.

I was stopped by another officer ten minutes before and once I rolled down my window and we talked he just waved me on. Some of these guys just need a bigger dose of maturity/common sense...

You are completely right, of course, and I have run into the same thing several times----------still, I appreciated that they were doing their "job" under very trying circumstances, and was never offended, tho I was amused. One time, after I showed them my Federal Agent creds. he was STILL not convinced until his boss showed up :lol:

but I much prefer they be "careful" than "lax"----maybe because I KNOW what they go thru, and the situations they run into, which pre-loads the situations.

It just upsets me when folks get "angry" at them-------I just don't think it is worth it, either for you, or for them.

(you know, "relax, be happy") :lol:

Barry

BajaGringo - 1-19-2009 at 02:32 PM

I didn't get angry Barry. He showed an obvious attitude the minute I rolled my window down and it became obvious that my refusing to "react" to his remarks (that I felt at times were out of line) only seemed to make him more zealous. He also was very visibly PO'd at the officer who stopped minutes later and was very friendly, asking me about where I liked to fish in Baja, how much to buy a lot in San Quintin, etc.

I was very friendly from the beginning and the younger officer had an attitude. No reason or justification for how he behaved. I have family in law enforcement Barry and I am so tired of hearing that they have such a hard job to do, as if that excuses them for whatever they do or say. A lot of people have hard/stressful jobs but asinine behavior is just that.

Tigerdog

DianaT - 1-19-2009 at 02:46 PM

The second set of pictures are also great pictures---thanks for sharing them---

And that fur baby? Who wouldn't rent to that face? We only discriminate against the dogs that cause one to lose their liability insurance, and pug is not on that list.

Now if I saw that face in BajaGringos avatar, that would be a real different story ---- no vacancy! :lol:

Diane

[Edited on 1-19-2009 by jdtrotter]

BajaGringo - 1-19-2009 at 03:12 PM

What? What?????

Mexicali_Kid - 1-19-2009 at 03:35 PM

Build bigger fences.

BajaGringo - 1-19-2009 at 03:49 PM

Bajahowodd - 1-19-2009 at 04:06 PM

Regarding our guys at the border, two years ago, we were crossing back at Otay. When we got up to the booth, the agent said, "I'll bet you're really happy to be back home." Truth is, we had a great time and were saddened that our trip was over. But rather than get into a debate, we just agreed with him. Who knows if I had told him the truth, we might have been directed into a secondary?

BajaGringo - 1-19-2009 at 04:12 PM

I have run into a few at the border that seem to react genuinely disappointed that we don't share their view of Mexico, others just the opposite. One guy in the San Ysidro SENTRI line always asks me how the fishing is down in San Quintin and tells me that he wishes he had time to go. There is another guy that flat out asked me "why would you WANT to live in Mexico; you can't AFFORD to live in the US???"

I really bit my tongue on that one...

Bajahowodd - 1-19-2009 at 04:26 PM

Xenophobia is not a good trait in a Border Patrol Officer.

BajaGringo - 1-19-2009 at 04:34 PM

It always comes down to ignorance...

:rolleyes:

Barry A. - 1-19-2009 at 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
I didn't get angry Barry. He showed an obvious attitude the minute I rolled my window down and it became obvious that my refusing to "react" to his remarks (that I felt at times were out of line) only seemed to make him more zealous. He also was very visibly PO'd at the officer who stopped minutes later and was very friendly, asking me about where I liked to fish in Baja, how much to buy a lot in San Quintin, etc.

I was very friendly from the beginning and the younger officer had an attitude. No reason or justification for how he behaved. I have family in law enforcement Barry and I am so tired of hearing that they have such a hard job to do, as if that excuses them for whatever they do or say. A lot of people have hard/stressful jobs but asinine behavior is just that.

Different strokes for different folks. Having "been there" I just have understanding for what these BP agents have to put up with, and contrary to you (I guess???) I give them a lot of slack, always. My motto, never ever argue with "the man"---------just go along with what he says as long as he is legal-----------it is what I always taught my kids (4), and they always managed to avoid any real problems with "the law".

Nuff said, by me anyway, at least this time. :lol:

Barry

BajaGringo - 1-19-2009 at 05:04 PM

No doubt Barry, that is good advice when faced with such circumstances. Here in the forum at least we have the freedom to discuss them "after the fact" and hopefully without fear of reprisals...

:rolleyes:

My son-in-law is Hispanic and has been in law enforcement his entire career since college. When returning a few weeks ago after spending some time with us in San Quintin he and my daughter were being treated a bit rude by the agent at the border until "something" came up on the agent's screen telling him that the driver of the vehicle was in law enforcement. The agent immediately acknowledged that fact, apologized and waved them through.

That alone tells me that they make a conscious decision at times to be a horses ass...

Taco de Baja - 1-19-2009 at 05:16 PM

There was the one guard back in 1997 who thought he was a doctor. He literally reached into the window of my truck, grabbed my wrist, and asked if I always had high blood pressure.

I calmly told him, no it was low, and by the way you can' tell blood pressure by taking someone's pulse. :rolleyes:

He then asked if we had any drugs, and I said yes, aspirin, antihistamines, tums……We got sent to secondary. :lol:

The dusty truck, surfboards, and a week’s growth of stubble probably profiled us more than anything.

Woooosh - 1-19-2009 at 05:26 PM

Quote:

It's your last sentence as to why IMHO, we need the triple fence. When personal judgement is involved in a non-secure area, mistakes can and will be made by both sides.

People pass notes and kiss their children while others pass drugs and forged documents. Some people come to visit the park, while others come as coyotes. And if someone, even a bad guy gets shot and killed, the Border Patrol goes to jail untilt he President commutes his sentence. The fence just gets rid of the uncertainty since dead drug dealers apparently have more legal rights than the people we trust to protect the border.

Woooosh - 1-19-2009 at 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco de Baja
There was the one guard back in 1997 who thought he was a doctor. He literally reached into the window of my truck, grabbed my wrist, and asked if I always had high blood pressure.

I calmly told him, no it was low, and by the way you can' tell blood pressure by taking someone's pulse. :rolleyes:

He then asked if we had any drugs, and I said yes, aspirin, antihistamines, tums……We got sent to secondary. :lol:

The dusty truck, surfboards, and a week’s growth of stubble probably profiled us more than anything.

I have a surfer buddy who borrowed a friends shirt while on a night out drinking in TJ some twenty something years ago. When he crossed back- they found a marijuana joint in his shirt pocket. He said "If I had known it was there I would have smoked it- not brought it back into the country." They ticketed and fined him anyway. He says they still ask him about it sometimes when he crosses- so the ICE computer has a long memory.

Bajahowodd - 1-19-2009 at 05:53 PM

I have to wonder just who in the heck is trying to cross the border illegally these days. What with the economy in the tank. Can't seriously be people looking for jobs? The drug smugglers have means other than to be running across the desert. The seems to leave only folks with family. Triple fences? I'd vote for tearing them all down. Y'all know there will be another amnesty. And all the anti-immigration pundits will say that a new amnesty will only embolden more people to cross illegally. Should we be proud that ultimately our border with our friends in Mexico will only be rivaled by the demarcation between Gaza and Israel? When's the last time a Mexican lobbed a rocket at us?

Barry A. - 1-19-2009 at 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
No doubt Barry, that is good advice when faced with such circumstances. Here in the forum at least we have the freedom to discuss them "after the fact" and hopefully without fear of reprisals...

:rolleyes:

Interesting. "That alone tells me" that the BP guy now realized that the guy in his focus was a fellow LE person, and probably not a crook, or smuggler, etc. He then extended professional curtesy and waved him on-----happens all the time if they believe you-----if not, then the creds. do no good at all. That is what the Nation pays these guys to do-----make professional judgements based on their training and experience-----the more of each the better decisions, usually, but not always.

Like I said before---it just depends on your perspective and attitude------to each his own.

I will continue to treat ALL law enforcement folks with respect until they do something illegal.

Barry

Woooosh - 1-19-2009 at 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
I have to wonder just who in the heck is trying to cross the border illegally these days. What with the economy in the tank. Can't seriously be people looking for jobs? The drug smugglers have means other than to be running across the desert. The seems to leave only folks with family. Triple fences? I'd vote for tearing them all down. Y'all know there will be another amnesty. And all the anti-immigration pundits will say that a new amnesty will only embolden more people to cross illegally. Should we be proud that ultimately our border with our friends in Mexico will only be rivaled by the demarcation between Gaza and Israel? When's the last time a Mexican lobbed a rocket at us?

They throw rocks all day long across the border fence in TJ that are big enough to kill and have caused serrous injury to ICE. Do you define a rocket by its method of propellance (is that a word??) or by potential to do damage?

There's no amnesty coming either this time. Americans are becoming more protectionist- especially with millions more to lose their jobs this year. Too many people from too many countries have been waiting in the correct immigration line for too long (including my family) to reward the people who enter illegally and try to cut the line. I have illegal family members stateside with legal children- I love them but don't support what they did.

But cut the line is what some mexicans do best at every opportunity. The rules aply to everyone but them. You see it everywhere. They'll have the last number for service at the Palacio and then just walk up to the next available counter person. They'll make extra driving lanes or just drive down the breakdown lane while everyone else waits at a standstill. Then they wedge themselves in front- just to get fifty cars ahead. I have never in my life seen that in the USA or any other country. Ever. I see it here every single day. The rules apply to everyone but them- and their children in the back seat (and every car they scream past) watch and learn- and grow up like that too.

Nope- It's time for a change- fair immigration but no amnesty.

[Edited on 1-20-2009 by Woooosh]

[Edited on 1-20-2009 by Woooosh]

DENNIS - 1-19-2009 at 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
Do you define a rocket by its method of propellance (is that a word??)

Propellant............You asked.

BajaGringo - 1-19-2009 at 09:31 PM

I think that to compare the rock throwing across the border fence to rockets is a stretch. Not saying that I would want to be on the receiving end of a rock but if I were to choose there would be no contest. How many CBP have been killed by border crossing rocks vs those killed by rocket attacks from Gaza???

I think we need to keep things in balance...

DENNIS - 1-20-2009 at 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
I think that to compare the rock throwing across the border fence to rockets is a stretch. Not saying that I would want to be on the receiving end of a rock but if I were to choose there would be no contest. How many CBP have been killed by border crossing rocks vs those killed by rocket attacks from Gaza???

I think we need to keep things in balance...

I see little difference except availability. Even the words, Rock/Rocket, are similar and have the same intent. Do you think, Ron, that if the rock throwers in TJ had rockets at their disposal, they wouldn't freely use them? I believe they would.

BajaGringo - 1-20-2009 at 10:06 AM

You are probably right on that one Dennis.

You mean with all the weapons coming south across the border they can't get their hands on a decent rocket launcher? I would think it would be easier to get one in TJ than in Gaza???

DENNIS - 1-20-2009 at 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo

You mean with all the weapons coming south across the border they can't get their hands on a decent rocket launcher? I would think it would be easier to get one in TJ than in Gaza???

Probably so, especially with a wartime military base just up the road.
Actually, I don't think the rock throwers are an organized group for the most part. I think they're just plain and simple scum with nothing else to do except perform government sanctioned mayhem.
I've said it before...the fence should be back a quarter mile and anybody near it should be treated as illegal. Shame on us if they cross it.

BajaGringo - 1-20-2009 at 11:33 AM

The sad thing Dennis is that we are spending all this money today on the southern fence yet we have hundreds and hundreds of miles of border with Canada with nothing more than signs with 800 numbers to call if witnessing someone cross illegally.

If I was a coyote I would just march the folks down, get their passports and fly them to Canada. First class. Canada welcomes Mexicans. Then I would just fly/drive them to the border somewhere around the northern mid-western states and wish them well. I would even give them volume discounts for entire families it would be so easy.

I think CBS did a story a year ago where they filmed traffickers bringing in drugs that very way. I really am not convinced the reason we are fencing up the southern border is about keeping the US secure.

But what do I know...

One of these days I am going to learn to type

[Edited on 1-20-2009 by BajaGringo]

DENNIS - 1-20-2009 at 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
I really am not convinced the reason we are fencing up the southern border is about keeping the US secure.

I couldn't agree more. But, what do we do? Toss up our hands in desperation and let the world [in this case Mexico] have their way with us? Fences won't work. Law enforcement won't work. Demanding [ shame it comes to that ] respect won't work. Open borders with such wide rangeing economic disparity won't work.
If we can't find the answer, we have nothing left to do but throw away our flag. Who is willing to do that? Not me.

Bajahowodd - 1-20-2009 at 12:54 PM

Dennis- I know I'll get a great deal of flak here but I'm not sure that open border wouldn't work. Especially in a time where our economy has declined so much. The European Union has twenty eight countries that speak many different languages. No visa is required to travel among them. And I still get ruffled about the disparity between our treatment of the Northern Border and the Southern one. It is difficult to accurately estimate the true numbers but there are at least 120,000 illegal Canadians in the U.S. at any given time; probably many more. Light skin, fluent English and mostly Anglo-Saxon names allow them to virtually go undetected.

DENNIS - 1-20-2009 at 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
It is difficult to accurately estimate the true numbers but there are at least 120,000 illegal Canadians in the U.S. at any given time; probably many more. Light skin, fluent English and mostly Anglo-Saxon names allow them to virtually go undetected.

That's why the new administration is going to study the viability of a dye-bath for Canadians traveling south. Pink has been proposed. :tumble:

BajaGringo - 1-20-2009 at 06:49 PM

:lol:

woody with a view - 1-20-2009 at 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Dennis- I know I'll get a great deal of flak here but I'm not sure that open border wouldn't work. Especially in a time where our economy has declined so much. The European Union has twenty eight countries that speak many different languages. No visa is required to travel among them. And I still get ruffled about the disparity between our treatment of the Northern Border and the Southern one. It is difficult to accurately estimate the true numbers but there are at least 120,000 illegal Canadians in the U.S. at any given time; probably many more. Light skin, fluent English and mostly Anglo-Saxon names allow them to virtually go undetected.

a couple years ago i was on a construction site when la migra showed up and fanned out across the site. after awhile i climbed of the roof to move to the next house and an ice guy walked around the corner. he asked me where i was born and after a short HAA!!! the first sounds that left my lips were, "what? do i sound canadian or something????" :lol:

he didn't get it. :?: