BajaNomad - The end of Punta Brava

The end of Punta Brava

EnseNADAslim - 1-31-2009 at 06:44 PM

How many know where Punto Brava sits? I didn't know where it was, however we kayak around it all the time. Punta Brava is the coast line that goes around the radio tower mountain that sits out by La Bufadora. For many years we have enjoyed the fact that the foot print of man just did not exists out in this area, well that is except for the occasional fisherman and his kids. Lately though we have noticed activity out there and even the construction of a boat ramp, and today we noticed seating areas, a nice little bride, and a white canopy sitting by itself. It was odd to see it all there in a place that was always beautifully untouched.
As we walked around we ran into a guard and he said that we were not supposed to be walking around because this was the private property of,,,,,,,,Tiger Woods. He told us how this will eventually be a golf course with houses and the whole 9 yards. It was kind of sad to hear, and sadder to think that this beautiful spot will someday play host to only those that can afford to pass through it gates. Why here, why, why why....
But I imagine Mexico will sell off anything to those that have enough money.
The guard by the way was a very nice guy and kind of laughed to here how we got there, and he said we could walk around and eat our lunch where we wanted.
I like golf and have nothing bad to say about it, it's just sad to see beautiful untouched areas get plowed down so a few select can enjoy it,,,,,,,but I guess an air horn on my Kayak will do nicely on the 18th green! :lol:

[Edited on 2-1-2009 by EnseNADAslim]

DENNIS - 1-31-2009 at 07:25 PM

Enjoy it while you can, Slim. In a couple of years you try to beach a kayak out there, they'll be lobbing grenades at you.

bajabound2005 - 1-31-2009 at 07:32 PM

Slim - our house is abutting the Punta Brava Property; park that kayak and come on up (it's kind of steep, but walkable!) for breakfast, lunch, happy hour(s), or dinner!

PS: It's PuntA Brava

[Edited on 2-1-2009 by bajabound2005]

Packoderm - 1-31-2009 at 08:21 PM

How many more of these "The end of..." stories are we going to need to hear? Until it really is the end of all of it?

EnseNADAslim - 1-31-2009 at 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabound2005
Slim - our house is abutting the Punta Brava Property; park that kayak and come on up (it's kind of steep, but walkable!) for breakfast, lunch, happy hour(s), or dinner!
PS: It's PuntA Brava
[Edited on 2-1-2009 by bajabound2005]

Really? Cool, what color is it? We generally head out on Saturday's from the boat ramp in La Jolla and go by the ship wreaks, pause to see if there any whales, and then B-line it around the point. We always seem to be the only ones out there---the Yellow and Red Kayaks. We'll pack a bottle of wine sometime and stop in.

bajabound2005 - 1-31-2009 at 10:02 PM

we are directly above those 3 "boats" anchored off Rancho Packard. The house is uh...beige (not our choice) but the garage is teal green/blue (our choice). If you pull into out "beach", which is nothing more than some small rocks...you can pull your boat in (or anchor off shore) and walk up the path. We did see whales last week and lots of dolphins this AM. U2U or email for specifics. Would love to have you come by!

surfer jim - 1-31-2009 at 10:58 PM

We all have our own stories of places lost.....reminds me of when friends move away or someone dies.....it can never be replaced......

DENNIS - 2-1-2009 at 07:16 AM

Treasure the memories. At least, they can't be taken away.

What happened to the federal zone?

Bronco - 2-1-2009 at 08:29 AM

I have been under the impression the Mexican people have the legal access to the ocean. I remember when there was no road to the point and we would hike around the area. On Sundays you would find people fishing in many of the coves.

DENNIS - 2-1-2009 at 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bronco

What happened to the federal zone?

Everything is for sale.

EnseNADAslim - 2-1-2009 at 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bronco
I have been under the impression the Mexican people have the legal access to the ocean. I remember when there was no road to the point and we would hike around the area. On Sundays you would find people fishing in many of the coves.

To a point you can get there, but now there is a gate and like I was saying, eventually you'll bump into a guard. The only people allowed out there now are the investors, Gov't officials, and well,,,,,,Tiger Woods--------or those that have Kayaks :biggrin:

True only Mexicans have true access to coastal land, and only Mexican's can purchase costal land,,,,,uhhhhhh unless you are rich and have lots of money,,,,then Like Dennis Said, "Everything has a price tag". To put it short, they'll sell out to anyone to make a bunch of bucks. Tell me some politician is not going to rack in the $$.$$ on this deal.
Sad thing is, When a local Mexican, his wife, and six kids pull up in their Datsun B-210 with calif. plates he will in no way be allowed into that place.

bajabound2005 - 2-1-2009 at 10:23 AM

The Punta Brava land is owned by Mexicans.

Red McCoombs the main money guy

Bronco - 2-1-2009 at 10:51 AM

Ol Red is a very interesting individual. I highly recommend you Google his name. He owns many different auto dealships and is the founder of Clear Channel radio. I realize the guys got mega-bucks BUT, this deal was put together before the current economical crunch. Im sure add revenues are down and we know where the auto biz is currently.
Maybe the project could be a Trump fiasco. Let's hope.
The owner of the property is the brother of Gonzales-owner of the Puerto Escondido properties that have a whole slew of unsold homes.

DENNIS - 2-1-2009 at 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bronco
The owner of the property is the brother of Gonzales-owner of the Puerto Escondido properties that have a whole slew of unsold homes.

I'm under the impression that the property is owned by the Ejido and is in process of changing hands to the development group. There are tenants on that hill who are dealing with the Ejido office for relocation. They arn't dealing with Gonzalez although I have also heard that he is a primary owner of at least part of the package.
It's Mexico. Does anybody really know anything? Rumors are born here faster than they were in basic training.
I do know that the office dwelling Ejidatarios are all driving new/newer vehicles since all of this started.

[Edited on 2-1-2009 by DENNIS]

wilderone - 2-2-2009 at 11:10 AM

The usual hype: completion date 2010. When pigs fly more like. Tiger is smart - he'll sell them a golf course design regardless of whether it gets built. The rest of it? Ridiculous - no access, few buyers now. There are a lot of seaside golf course properties - no reason to choose some windblown punta in Baja norte with no beach. They tout recreation for the whole family - fishing, surfing, kayaking - not for that crowd and not off that rocky coast. All better in La Jolla, California.

http://www.tigerwoodsdesign.com/Global/Courses/Punta%20Brava...

DENNIS - 2-2-2009 at 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
The usual hype: completion date 2010. When pigs fly more like. Tiger is smart - he'll sell them a golf course design regardless of whether it gets built. The rest of it? Ridiculous - no access, few buyers now. There are a lot of seaside golf course properties - no reason to choose some windblown punta in Baja norte with no beach. They tout recreation for the whole family - fishing, surfing, kayaking - not for that crowd and not off that rocky coast. All better in La Jolla, California.

It is said [yeah...I know...By whom ] that the area was chosen for many reasons. One, that the weather closely resemble Pebble Beach and people line up to play there.
Anyway, this isn't supposed to be open to the public and the mega-rich see things differently....I think. I do know they don't need credit.

ckiefer - 2-2-2009 at 11:24 AM

It is my understanding that any gringo with dual citizenship owns his/her property the same as a mexican national. i.e. no fideo. You could also apply for a beach concession if you own ocean front land and do not want the jewelry guys setting up shop outside your front/back door. Reportedly it is "law" to not block public access to the beach, but it continues to happen everywhere.

The older I get the less I care about the whole beach front property idea. I'll just buy me a ocean waves CD, close my eyes and have a pacifico!

BajaGringo - 2-2-2009 at 11:30 AM

The folks who are buying there will not be driving in, so access is not the issue. The property has helicopter service which will fly the homeowners in from LA and San Diego. A large part of the reason they chose the property was because of the access. It is for a very select group and they want it to be secluded.

I doubt you will see any pangas/kayaks coming up on shore there once the homeowners start to arrive.

Bajahowodd - 2-2-2009 at 11:35 AM

Actually, the Punta Brava website lists completion for 2011.

DENNIS - 2-2-2009 at 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ckiefer
Reportedly it is "law" to not block public access to the beach, but it continues to happen everywhere.

The older I get the less I care about the whole beach front property idea. I'll just buy me a ocean waves CD, close my eyes and have a pacifico!

You mean like Malibu, California?
----------
Good idea on the mind control CD. No reason to lose sleep over something you can't change.

wilderone - 2-2-2009 at 11:46 AM

Their MISSION is to create experiences that transform lives. Somehow, I don't think playing golf is going to do that. Not only that, but scraping every square inch of Punta Brava is going to be in an environmentally sensitive manner.

“The company's mission is to create experiences that transform lives.”
“exclusive, environmentally sensitive residential and hospitality experiences.”
“Our commitment is to create places that make a soft imprint on the earth yet a powerful impact on the individual”
“Sustaining the environment and indigenous cultures are integral to its core philosophy.”

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS195882+06-Oc...

BajaGringo - 2-2-2009 at 11:55 AM

Tell Tiger next time you see him...

:lol:

DENNIS - 2-2-2009 at 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
“Sustaining the environment and indigenous cultures are integral to its core philosophy.”

Not real sure what all that crap is supposed to mean. Since I live close by and have for some time, am I to be considered "Indigenous?" I, all of a sudden, have this compulsion to cook up a pot of rocks and twigs.

Oh Gawd..The Noblesse Oblige and arrogance of the rich is so disgusting. I wonder if the less well off inhabitants of Baja feel this revulsion when we Americans invade their territory with our mind-set of caring for their well-being while we arn't preoccupied with our posessions.
Just wondering to myself.

BajaGringo - 2-2-2009 at 12:12 PM

You are not alone my friend. One of the "benefits" of these difficult times is that (hopefully) it leads to greater introspection. I know that I have really come to appreciate a whole lot more what I have been given in life...

EnseNADAslim - 2-2-2009 at 12:52 PM

“The company's mission is to create experiences that transform lives.”
This is actually Great News!!! Being that the average worker makes $80.00 or more a week (not much more) and they are so concerned about creating experiences, can you imagine what the Green Fee's will be that will allow "Experiences". I'd guess like maybe $15.00 to play around of golf???
I can't believe how generous this Tiger guy is and what he is willing to do (tear up Punta Brava) in order to give all National Mexicans (and us US'rs as well) a chance to Experiences his new, great, environmentally sensitive Golf Course.

BajaGringo - 2-2-2009 at 12:56 PM

There will not be green fees. Members will pay annual dues probably somewhere between 50-100K. The course will not be open to the public. I will never be able to play a round of golf there so it really is of no benefit to me but I wonder how many of you think they should tear down pebble beach and return it to its natural state?

Just seems to me there is a lot of double standard speak on this...

:rolleyes:

Sharksbaja - 2-2-2009 at 01:09 PM

Ahhhhh, to be rich and unconcerned. It's a warm and fuzzy feeling I'm sure. I wonder if any liberals are onboard? :?:

Now that would be a double standard.

What's so great about Pebble Breach if you don't play golf?

mtgoat666 - 2-2-2009 at 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
What's so great about Pebble Breach if you don't play golf?

17 mile drive is a very pretty drive, bike or walk along the ocean :lol:

Sharksbaja - 2-2-2009 at 01:19 PM

00hhh that part! :lol:

Almost fergot.

Marketing plan

Dave - 2-2-2009 at 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
17 mile drive is a very pretty drive, bike or walk along the ocean :lol:

Isn't that about what it is from Ensenada?

Throw in a stop at Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Applebee's and an Army checkpoint or two and it's just like Monterey.

Dennis could set up a roadside stand and sell beer.

DENNIS - 2-2-2009 at 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Dennis could set up a roadside stand and sell beer.

I like that. I've hoarded enough Noche Buena to stay in business for about six months assuming I abandon the "Sell one...Drink one" business plan.

Aw...Nevermind. I'll just drink all of it.

BajaGringo - 2-2-2009 at 02:10 PM

Hey, maybe you can drive the "NocheBuena" golf cart out on Tiger's new course. Those guys have to leave some awesome tips...

EnseNADAslim - 2-2-2009 at 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Dennis could set up a roadside stand and sell beer.

I like that. I've hoarded enough Noche Buena to stay in business for about six months assuming I abandon the "Sell one...Drink one" business plan.

Aw...Nevermind. I'll just drink all of it.

How about I grab mine and we sit outside the Lush Punta Brava Tiger Wood's Golf Course and sell it to those as they drive in. We could also play loud blarring music like that do when un Tienda de Zapatas opens up! :light:

Sharksbaja - 2-2-2009 at 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
Hey, maybe you can drive the "NocheBuena" golf cart out on Tiger's new course. Those guys have to leave some awesome tips...

You think rich people are generally generous? Quite the opposite methinks. :rolleyes:

Oregon with it's rediculous liguor laws allows hard liquor dispensing on the greens but cannot be in view of children anywhere it's sold. :?:

Showstagoya if you sleep with the right folks.......

Why not in Baja, screw the beer. It's not like it's gonna mess your game up. :lol:

sylens - 2-2-2009 at 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
17 mile drive is a very pretty drive, bike or walk along the ocean :lol:

yeah but...

the only access will be by helicopter or boat

bajamigo - 2-2-2009 at 04:38 PM

I heard that Tiger Woods isn't putting any of his dough into the project because Mrs. Tiger refuses to wait for the truck to show up and fill the pila.

Mexican business plan

Dave - 2-2-2009 at 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
I've hoarded enough Noche Buena to stay in business for about six months assuming I abandon the "Sell one...Drink one" business plan.

Sell one beer for five thousand dollars. Close for 3 months. Repeat.

DENNIS - 2-2-2009 at 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Mexican business plan.
Sell one beer for five thousand dollars. Close for 3 months. Repeat.

And, if it doesn't sell immediatly......raise the price.

BajaGringo - 2-2-2009 at 05:32 PM

:lol:

La Bufadora Tours Inc.

Bronco - 2-3-2009 at 07:37 AM

Punta Brava is about a 15 minute paddle from my casa so I figure I get some more kayaks and have tours like in Beverly Hills. Or I could go to Los Globos buy some old large cameras mount them on my 18footer and create a paparazzi bonanza. Then again with a nice megaphone "you shanked it putz" The wall street tycoon flips me off and I sell the pics to the Enquirer. Better lay off any more coffee today.

BajaGringo - 2-3-2009 at 11:49 AM

I was told that they are telling potential buyers that no boats will be getting very close to the coastline of the project once the property was occupied with homeowners...

mtgoat666 - 2-3-2009 at 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
I was told that they are telling potential buyers that no boats will be getting very close to the coastline of the project once the property was occupied with homeowners...

me thinks you're just trying to stir the pot and start a class war -- perhaps a a war between nomad pensioners and people with jobs

FYI, only stink pots prohibited. civilized boats like sailboats and kayaks will be allowed.

BajaGringo - 2-3-2009 at 12:32 PM

Actually I was told by a member of their security team that in the near future, NO boats will be allowed to come near/onto the property that are not associated with the development ownership/management. Some may ask how they can do that but then I would ask how they managed to get gun toting ex US Navy Seals for security, as they have right now.

Once homes are up, security will be greatly increased. Just for sh*t and giggles I suggest you try and prove me wrong once that point is reached and take a boatload of friends up onto the property with picnic baskets and ghetto blasters.

Then report back to us how you far you got...

:lol:

[Edited on 2-3-2009 by BajaGringo]

mtgoat666 - 2-3-2009 at 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
they managed to get gun toting ex US Navy Seals for security, as they have right now.

Hey, I'll try that picnic thing. Sounds fun.

The Navy Seals may be able to patrol the beaches and fences, but how are residents going to run the gauntlet thru TJ and down the coast? Armored helicopter gunships? Armored cars?

BajaGringo - 2-3-2009 at 12:51 PM

Nope, residents will arrive by helicopters. They have already been purchased and sitting at Brown field in San Diego.

ElFaro - 2-3-2009 at 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
Nope, residents will arrive by helicopters. They have already been purchased and sitting at Brown field in San Diego.

Yea...until one of those helos crashes into a fog/wind ridden hillside with a family aboard !! We'll see how many use the helicopters after that! :bounce:

DENNIS - 2-3-2009 at 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ElFaro
Yea...until one of those helos crashes into a fog/wind ridden hillside with a family aboard !! We'll see how many use the helicopters after that! :bounce:

When the weather's bad here, they'll be at their bungalow in St. Tropez.

wilderone - 2-3-2009 at 03:09 PM

Too absurd. If they have helicopters now, they'll use them to fly potential suc___ - uh buyers down so they won't see the border crossing mess, the less expensive seaside homes en route, and sewer drainage running into the ocean.

What helo's BG

Bronco - 2-3-2009 at 04:57 PM

After reading some of this I stopped at the FBO at Brownfield.
What are you talking about?????????? My uncle has a plane stored there, he thinks this is funny. I was in CV when I read your post and drove over to the FBO-NO copters via mgmt. What was really interesting is a group of seal's had just finished a jump and we chatted- Seals for protection for a project in Mexico, that has a very limited chance of survival. And the project is a good 2 year out. And you really think these planes are bought and ready to go? Ck the people involved the money guys. Red McCombs-auto dealerships and Clear Channel. He may have some mega bucks but the man is not stupid. Brady Oman, do some research, ck their stocks etc.
Most important is do you think Vonny Fleet or Sergios would be denied fishing in that area?

Chickens Come Home To Roost

Bajahowodd - 2-3-2009 at 05:03 PM

This crowd consists of people that have been stealing the common folks money for the last three decades. They're going to need fortresses when the revolution begins. Can anyone think of a better location to fortify.

EnseNADAslim - 2-3-2009 at 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
they managed to get gun toting ex US Navy Seals for security, as they have right now.

Mr. and Mrs. Slim are in. I'll bring some wine and a bag full of Tamales. Mrs. Slim will make some cookies :dudette:

---yea, picnic on the back Nine :bounce:

Both of our Kayaks can carry plenty. I think this will be the "Experience" Tiger was looking for.

Bajahowodd - 2-3-2009 at 05:21 PM

Are you speaking on behalf of Carlos? Maybe you should change your name to Flaco to avoid confusion. :lol:

BajaGringo - 2-3-2009 at 06:17 PM

The helicopters are bought and have already been used to transport buyers. If they are not at Brown right now they are probably in use as they also run them up to Long Beach and LA for clients / business.

Of course they can't keep the fishing fleet from fishing in the area. My point was that neither they or anybody else will be pulling their boat (or kayak) up on the beach there once residents begin to arrive. That is just a fact.

I am not a spokesman for them or defending them. Just trying to explain to the group what the cold, hard reality is going to be like, whether we like it or not. Pretending this is just like Trump is to have little clue what the difference is between a development carrying the name of a rude dude with a bad comb-over trying to attract middle class buyers who want to "pretend" they can live like the rich and famous and a development promoted by the biggest name in marketing today going after the truly rich and famous.

I have said it before and I will say it again - The folks who will buy at Punta Brava are the kind of folks that would pay a million dollars just for the privilege of playing a round of golf with Tiger Woods. These same folks wouldn't pay ten dollars to have lunch with Donald Trump. Talking about the "TJ Gauntlet" is totally lost on them as it is something they would never even be concerned with...

mtgoat666 - 2-3-2009 at 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
That is just a fact.

and the source of information was security guards (claiming to be Navy Seals) on an empty parcel on a dead end road in Mexico.

If David K doesn't verify it, it ain't true!

:lol:

DENNIS - 2-3-2009 at 07:10 PM

Ya'all crazy..........Pull yo heads outa yo behinds and quit tryn to think like rich folk who have so much money they don' need you or me to understand nuthin. This place is for the rich.......the super rich.......and all your nonsensical equations won't apply.
Punta Brava is no longer Mexico. It's Punta Brava.

Have fun, folks. You can't fight it.

BajaGringo - 2-3-2009 at 07:11 PM

No - my sources are a few steps higher up the food chain.

Really sorry if this irritates you all so much but I am just trying to pass along some good info. Obviously you don't want to hear it so I will just let you paint your own picture you want to believe.

I hope it works out for you...

woody with a view - 2-3-2009 at 07:12 PM

Dennis

it's only fun if you can fight it..... otherwise, it just SUCKS! :barf:

BajaGringo - 2-3-2009 at 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Punta Brava is no longer Mexico. It's Punta Brava.

Probably the best answer I have heard so far...

DENNIS - 2-3-2009 at 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody in ob
Dennis

it's only fun if you can fight it..... otherwise, it just SUCKS! :barf:

Can't fight this kind of money, Woody. It's way beyond us. Look what happened to Loreto.

Next time you pass through, Woody, stop in for a cold one.

wilderone - 2-4-2009 at 10:31 AM

"Look what happened to Loreto."

What we said came to pass: The Village at Loreto Bay as it was so ill-conceived did not happen because of all the reasons we had already figured out. Not even one-tenth of the residences of the planned LB project were sold, and only .3% are currently built. NONE of the "promises" will be fulfilled. NONE. That is not success. The result is a scar on an otherwise beautiful landscape.

"Can't fight this kind of money." You'd think people with this kind of money had some brains to go along with it. Didn't somebody say that about Citibank and their affiliation with LB? Who's holding the bag?
As for cliches, I like this one: "A fool and his money are soon parted."
I'll start writing letters as I did with the LB project - I wrote to Citibank, newspapers, magazines, etc. Gave them a little enlightenment.

Barry A. - 2-4-2009 at 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone

"Can't fight this kind of money." You'd think people with this kind of money had some brains to go along with it.

As for cliches, I like this one: "A fool and his money are soon parted."

I don't think it is lack of "brains"------------what appears to be happening is that many inherit "money" without any preparation or sophistication as to how to handle it, thus they are trusting and naive and ripe for scams that are always "out there" targeting these folks.

Anybody inheriting money should take at least a year learning the skills of wisely handling it before spending or investing any of it. Put it in a Money Market Fund or series of Cert. of Deposit's (etc.) while you educate yourself. If you take the time and study, it then becomes relatively easy to make the "right" choices and investments.

That's my "take" anyway. :spingrin:

Barry