BajaNomad

Freon

Margie - 6-1-2004 at 05:45 PM

Freon ranks second only to cocaine as an illegal import. The price mark up is ten sometimes twenty times what the product costs in Mexico. Although the main criminal element lies with Russian and Chinese smugglars, the product is transported in abundance across the Border by Americans and Mexicans alike.

From The National Commisssion on Terroist Attacks Upon the US & The International Crime Threat Assessment:

3/26/04;

"...Criminal groups also smuggle environmentally harmful products, particularly ozone-depleting chlorofluorocarbons (CFC's) whose legal trade is subject to stringent international retrictions. The illegal trade of these substances into the US and other markets is accomplished through false labeling, counterfeit paperwork, and bogus corporations.

The size of the global black market for ozone-depleting substances is estimated by the UN to range from 20,000 to 30,000
metric tons annually, with more than half entering the US. Illegal imports of these substances are far more cheaper than CFC's that are legally recycled or obtained from limited existing stocks."





[Edited on 6-2-2004 by Margie]

Packoderm - 6-1-2004 at 06:43 PM

Speaking of which, who can recommend a good-valued auto air-conditioning shop in Baja who can stop the leak and recharge the old-style Freon in my '92 Ford Ranger?

bajalou - 6-1-2004 at 07:21 PM

There's a guy here in San Felipe that fixes and charges units. Don't know the address but it anyone plans on trying to use him, let me know and I'll find the directions. A interesting fact, the price of freon here has dropped by about 1/3 or more in the last 10 years. Early 90's much bigger demand than at present.

:biggrin:

bajaloco - 6-1-2004 at 07:22 PM

Just have your old systems retro-fitted to the new refrigerant. It makes it alot less trouble to recharge and can be done anywhere. The cost to re-fit has come down a long way in recent years.

David K - 6-1-2004 at 07:56 PM

How do the enviro wackos plan to stop a volcano from erupting? Just ONE volcanic eruption produces more 'ozone depleating' gasses than all the cars ever made...

Nature is greater than all of us... have some faith.

The new disaster movie is so funny, listen closely how the last ice age is explained (natural greenhouse gasses).. but somehow this one is caused by man's automobiles! I loved the special effects... and laughed how they cast the president and VP (using look-alikes) as stupid and evil.

I Say: NO FREON IN RUSSIA FIRST! :)

sin nombre - 6-1-2004 at 08:23 PM

...freon only poses a problem when it escapes from the system. Most systems rarely leak, and when they do, it is in hardly measurable amounts over months and months. Then you simply re-charge it. But most AC in cars do not use Freon any more...

Ammonia Gas

Margie - 6-1-2004 at 11:11 PM

I don't have an air-conditioner in my car, I have a "68 VW Van and I just open up the wind wings.

My refrigerator uses ammonia gas, not Freon. Look it up, Ammonia Gas.

Maybe you need some of that hydroponic stuff from Canada.


Duh, once again !!

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

sin nombre - 6-2-2004 at 07:44 AM

from an informational website....

"In the original home refrigerator, the refrigerant used was essentially pure ammonia. Ammonia is a fairly volatile substance that has been found to be toxic to humans, and since then has been replaced. Chlorofluorocarbons (CFC's) were created to reduce danger levels to humans. CFC's were later determined to be harmful to the environment, so other substitutes were created in the early 1990's. Freon is the common refrigerant found in home refrigerators today."

Keep It Cool

Margie - 6-2-2004 at 11:36 AM

You are right, sin nombre, the old style refrigerators were dangerous, but they were using methyl chloride, the modern refrigerator uses a refined technique - it is called a continuous absorption refrigerator.

Today's refrigerators do not use CFC's, they use ammonia gas combined with continuous absorption. So, they are neither like the old 'gas' refigerators which did leak and were finally banned after deaths and explosions, nor do they use CFC's (Freon).

Here are some references on the safety and properties of modern day refrigeration:

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_EH350

http://www.energyquest.ca.gov/how_it_works/refrigerator.html

http://www.acs.comcen.com.au/refrigeration.html



:cool::cool:

[Edited on 6-2-2004 by Margie]

New Boyfriend????

Margie - 6-2-2004 at 12:38 PM

dbrroks, I'm confused.

Is there actually pity and mercy in your heart for a mere'marooon'????


I'm falling off my chair again.....





:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

[Edited on 6-2-2004 by Margie]

Mexitron - 6-2-2004 at 01:31 PM

David K--just a distinction--I think volcanoes produce "greenhouse gases" like sulphurous compounds and carbon dioxide. "Ozone depleting" chemicals are the CFCs which I don't think are produced by volcanoes, although I could be wrong about this.....you're right about having faith in nature--it created us, we'd better have faith!

David K - 6-2-2004 at 09:07 PM

I may be wrong, it is confusing... Do the enviros want us to quit driving cars: (CO2/greenhouse creator) or quit using air conditioning: (CFCs/ozone depleters) OR don't use the car's AC: (both at the same time)??? CFCs are only man made, or do they exist in nature?

Doesn't global warming make more water vapor,

that makes clouds,

that reflect the sunlight,

that cools the earth,

that causes rain to fall,
that grows more plants,

that makes more oxygen,

that creates more life,

that makes more farts,

that warms the earth,

all over again....???????

NATURE WINS... EVERY TIME :tumble::yes::light::lol:

Mexitron - 6-2-2004 at 10:08 PM

Yah........I've heard pretty good arguments from both sides of the debate(and not from the hystericals)...just people trying to do good science. The truth, I suspect lies somewhere in the middleground: ie-we are affecting the atmosphere to some degree, but probably not as much as is feared; but I think it would be prudent to use less fossil fuels and to start to develop alternative cleaner fuels if for no other reason than to be less reliant on unstable political regimes for our energy needs. Of course, if gas keeps going up in price the market(nature.....) will take care of that anyway! Nature seems to be a capitalist at heart!

Bajabus - 6-3-2004 at 06:28 AM

Mexitron I agree.

Necessity is the mother of all invention.

As to the volcano argument put forth by some pollutopublicans, since when is it appropriate to point to one source of harmful emmissions in an attempt to justify your own. This is the very tired and old elementary school argument of 2 wrongs make a right.

David K - 6-3-2004 at 07:42 AM

The point Max is if Nature can handle the 'bad' gasses spewed by a volcano, the tiny amount (by comparison) of manmade gasses are no threat and a poor platform to base an anti-capitalism activist organization on.

The left depends on uneducated voters and uses emotion instead of logic (and facts) to stir their supporters. The destruction of the United States and capitalism is the goal of the world's socialist & communists who have now banded together under the banner of the Greens and enviromental extremists. The uneducated liberals simply goose step behind any put down of America following the fear spreading tactics of the educated liberals who are simply after power for themselves. Just listen to Kerry and other's hypocracy... How many homes do they heat, how many gasoline cars do they drive, how many private jets do they fly.. while asking us to cut back? Barbra Streisand makes me puke!

I wasn't going to bring politics into this, but you have opened that door ("pollutopublicans"!?!). That new disaster movie could have been good without the enviro-stupidity and insults to our Prez and VP.

Have a great day, I am now going to be mean and drive my car and turn on the AC. :)

[Edited on 6-3-2004 by David K]

Get with the program...

dbrooks - 6-3-2004 at 08:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
... The destruction of the United States and capitalism is the goal of the world's socialist & communists who have now banded together under the banner of the Greens and enviromental extremists. [Edited on 6-3-2004 by David K]


Please...wake up old timer - communism is dead - didn't you read about it...in 1989!? Have you forgotten your hero, Ronnie Baby...

When all of you polluting old timers finally pass on, perhaps the "right thinkers" can finally do the right thing.

Get over the 1950's mentality.

Bajabus - 6-3-2004 at 08:52 AM

"enviro whackos"?. hummmm it seems to me that pollutopublican is an appropriate response.

What in gods name does communisim have to do with this?

I'm sure nature can "handle it". It's just what you mean by "handle it". I'm sure the earth and nature will be around for a long long time. What's not sure is what kind of quality of life future generations will enjoy as a result of the head in the sand, I'm gonna do what ever I want screw the rest of the world attitude that is epitomized by your reasoning.

If you enjoy toxic clouds over this nations cities, ever increasing poor air quality alerts that warn children and the eldery to stay inside, acid rain, unchecked corporate pollution in the name of the almighty dollar and sitting behind a black smoke belching truck or bus then by all means march on in goosestep like a lemming.

You do realize that your mode of lively hood, namely drip irrigation, is an engineered science solution that was responding to the problem of ever dwindling sources of clean water. It grew out of desperate water shortage conditions in Israel in the late 50's and 60's.

Is there something wrong with the concept of conservation applied to dwindling resources?

Is there something wrong with seeking alternatives to pollution from carbon dioxide and sulphur emissions?

Exactly how is this a communist plot?

Do you think that the pursuit of riches and an opulent lifestyle should have precedence over the quality of life for future generations?

Do you look forward to the prospect of the sierra lagunas being stipped of pine trees or do you think "some regulation" is necessary to keep it from happening?

If you had it to do over again would you have supported the regulation of cyanide and other toxic chemicals that have polluted ground wells in the mining region of El Triunfo?

Yeah kerry is an idiot for driving an SUV to a pro environment rally and he has way too much money to really be able to argue that he understands the needs and has compassion for the average American. I do however feel that taken as a whole Democrats are much more concerned with environmental issues than pollutopublicans and that's on of the reasons I am a democrat and GW will lose by at least 100 electoral votes in November.

Rather that make blanket statments filtered through a myopic lens that focuses on communists trying to take someones SUV away, do you not agree that it is responsible to take all views and evidence into consideration so that a balanced course of action can be formulated?

Well......hum?

Debra - 6-3-2004 at 09:35 AM

David, your comment "the left depends on uneducated voters and uses emotion instead of logic" got my dander up a bit my friend...... I have to ask, are you refering to Democrats? This whole "them or us" mindset does no good for anyone (IMHO) We only have one planet (for the time being) and we should take care of it.

Bajabus, you make some very valid points about concervation, I hear ya! We do need (and soon) to find alternate fuel, afterall, how many dinosaurs do we have left to 'shleap' our lazy butts around this globe?

I'm also guilty, I bought a SUV for myseft at Christmas, and I bought it because I no longer wanted to impose on friends while in Baja to get to places I couldn't in my 29mpg T-Bird, I also have to say that it seems 6 (or more) out of 10 cars on the road up here (Seattle) are SVUs which makes no sense, to me at least....we don't have weather to deal with but, maybe 1 or 2 days out of every 5 yrs. or so. Oh, well.....that my dos centovios worth. :)

I'm with Debra on this..

Natalie Ann - 6-3-2004 at 02:55 PM

the whole "us vs. them" approach is not helpful, especially when it comes to our planet. We're all human beings, EARTHLINGS - get it?!

Bajabus - 6-3-2004 at 03:21 PM

Hey what about me can I be in charge too?

Mexitron - 6-3-2004 at 03:36 PM

Communism isn't dead--its just moved into the local building permit department....

One person in charge at a time!!

dbrooks - 6-3-2004 at 03:47 PM

Grow up...me? You grow up.

That said - the 1989 date coincides with the Berlin wall coming down.

Now get your beer off your belly and walk somewhere.

Mexitron

Debra - 6-3-2004 at 05:20 PM

:tumble: :tumble: now that's funny!

[Edited on 6-4-2004 by Debra]

Bajabus - 6-3-2004 at 05:29 PM

Whats this one person at a time in charge garbage....that's a fascist dictatorship. If we are crazy kooky communists then darn it we are all in charge comrades.

Pass me the scythe and where did I leave that dam hammer.

I'm off to mallwart to see if I can find a nice red bandanna made in a socialist country.

Mexitron - 6-3-2004 at 05:52 PM

The Journal of Nature published a paper around 1999(I'm sorry I can't give the link because they won't let me into their archives) about an experiment that was performed to test CO2 emissions.

The scientists tested the air for CO2 concentration on the west coast of America--this air being relatively "clean" after passing over the ocean, which does much of the CO2 absorbtion on the planet. They then tested the air as it left the east coast. Since America is looked on as the biggest polluter in the world, they were rather surprised by the results: little or no net increase in CO2.

Their conclusion was that although we produce tons of CO2 we also absorb it back into our system: We are voracious consumers of forest wood(CO2 repositories) and most of its end uses locks up CO2 in a fairly permanent way(ie-houses). We also replant our forests--younger trees consume far more CO2 than old growth does. We use prodigious amounts of fertilizers which enhance growth of crops which absorb CO2. We also waste prodigiously and throw our cardboard, grass clippings, and paper products into landfills which generally are anaerobic--they don't decompose....ironically, people who compost their greenwaste are re-releasing CO2 back into the atmosphere thru bacterial decomposition. And lastly, our eastern farmlands are gradually becoming forested again do to the decline of small family farms--and those growing forests lock up CO2.

So, there is some truth to what David K says in regards to nature taking care of itself.....maybe I wouldn't be quite so cavalier about pushing the buffering sytem too far though--even nature has its breaking point.

Also, I believe this experiment only tested CO2, not methane, and other potential greenhouse gases.

By the way, the scientists tested the air on the other continents as well--Africa's air was substantially richer in CO2, along with others. I believe they attributed Africa's CO2 increase to rainforest slash and burn farming and its replacement with low yield crops. I think Asia was pretty bad too....

Rational thought...

dbrooks - 6-3-2004 at 07:10 PM

and arguments will get you nowhere here, mister!

I much prefer the flames!

POLLUTIPUBLICANS!!

Save the gay baby whales!

Mexitron - 6-3-2004 at 07:46 PM

oops.....sorry, don't know what got in to me--get me a beer, quick!

Bajabus - 6-3-2004 at 08:17 PM

Please it's pollutopublicans, I just coined the phrase so do me a personal favor and spell it right and add it to your dictionary.

I'm all for Mexitrons point of view. Nice and rational, no name calling. He has no argument from me.

despite some character assasination from the neocon pollutopublicans I'm a middle of the road kinda guy.

Margie - 6-3-2004 at 09:17 PM

The ultimate problem is overpopulation.

And now, I'm going to go make a smoothie.

David K - 6-3-2004 at 09:19 PM

Of course Bajabus, I'm with you! We should all conserve! We sould all become conservatives!

Thanks Mexitron for using facts and evidence, you 'da man!

dbrooks, The communist connection is simply to illustrate how politicians will create hysteria to gain control over the people. Barbra Streisand, Kerry, and other democrats are living in luxery while telling us to cut back our standard of living and choices in life. Just the same as the communist party members had plenty to eat while the people starved. Communism died in 1989-1991 (except in China, North Korea, Vietnam and Cuba), and just renamed it self as the Socialist and Green Party. They only demand the the U.S. change or the U.S. pay for everyone else to change (see Kyoto Treaty).

I am just as concerned about pollution and wildlife habitat, and forests, as you. I just don't think that Americans lifestyle (the rest of the world risks death to have) has to be radically changed.

Where the Ultra Left was in power (East Europe) the pollution was astronomical and death of forests was happening. In capitalist United States, our forests are getting bigger, we have the highest pollution control standards, and we have more people working on pollution and enviromental issues than anywhere... specially the leftist countries of the world.

You all are stuck on the 60's stereotype that big business is evil, run by Republicans, and will kill the earth.

Pull YOUR heads out of the sand and see what REALLY is helping the enviroment. It's not being destroyed by owning a Toyota 4Runner, either. Don't let the one worlders make you feel guilty for finally getting what you have wanted for so long.

Live Long and Prosper:yes:

David,

Debra - 6-3-2004 at 09:38 PM

I don't feel guilty, I'm a HAPPY HAPPY GIRL!

(and stop using the term "you all") :)

Bajabus - 6-3-2004 at 10:07 PM

DK.....don't get your hopes up it was just one study. There are many that suggest otherwise and remember it only measured co2. The point is there is a middle ground and rather than pepper the discourse with words like envirowhacko and communist it would behoove us to stick to facts.

I do thank you for inspiring me to coin the term pollutopublican.

Bajabus - 6-3-2004 at 10:16 PM

>The Journal of Nature published a paper around 1999(I'm sorry I can't give the link because they won't let me into their archives) about an experiment that was performed to test CO2 emissions.<

Mexitron I googled "The journal of nature" and cannot find any reference to the study you mention nor anything called The journal of Nature.

Do you have any links that would help me find the info you are mentioning?

Thanks

Steven Seagall

The Gull - 6-4-2004 at 12:28 AM

This string has all the elements of a Steven Seagall movie subplot, i.e. Commies, Eco-talk, generation X boytoys and politics.



:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Mexitron - 6-4-2004 at 06:55 AM

Bajabus--you can try nature.com which I think is their online version of the mag--there are all kinds of interesting articles regarding atmospheric studies even if you can't find the one I read. Its really fascinating what this planet has been through in its history without even us to help it out.:biggrin:

Suggestions for All!

Skeet/Loreto - 6-9-2004 at 05:29 AM

Hey Bus! How about a Friendly Bet on the Election?

I just won a Bet with my Friend Randy Mac. for a Full dinner at the El Nido in Loreto.{Go Lightning}

I will bet you the same on the Election in Nov.

Just want to let YOUALL know that Christains are alive and Well in TEXAS.
Went to the "Ranch Hands Rodeo" in Amarillo and then to the "Cowboy Church" where I enjoyed Marty Haggard sing Gospels.Churches are growing by Leaps and Bounds in Texas as well as Dos Palos. Calif.
We Christains are not going to let a bunch of Sinners take over the Presidency!

Skeet/Loreto

"In God I Trust"

Bajabus - 6-9-2004 at 06:33 AM

Skeet you are on. Only I don't go to loretto very often so how about a straight $20.

The bet quite simply is "I bet you Bush will not be the next president"

Carefull Skeet

David K - 6-9-2004 at 07:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajabus
Skeet you are on. Only I don't go to loretto very often so how about a straight $20.

The bet quite simply is "I bet you Bush will not be the next president"


This is a trick bet... Bush won't be the 'next' president... He will remain the current president for 4 1/2 more years... After an amendment to the constitution, ARNOLD will be the next president!!!:lol::lol::light:

Bajabus - 6-9-2004 at 08:43 AM

Ok $20 says bush won't get re-elected.

how's that for bet #1

side bet #2:

another $20 to you if he wins by more than 100 electoral votes

another $20 to me if he loses by more than 100 electoral votes

side bet #3

"$20 bucks he won't win the popular vote".

dbrooks

The Gull - 6-9-2004 at 02:43 PM

...from your 6/3 posting...
Quote:

Please...wake up old timer - communism is dead - didn't you read about it...in 1989!? Have you forgotten your hero, Ronnie Baby...


I was fortunate enough to get to Simi Valley this week.

Were you interested in stating your respect for Mr. Reagan?

Doug, relocate?

The Gull - 6-10-2004 at 05:51 AM

This posting was a fake to begin with. It started as Baja News, which was a cover for "off-topic". It has degraded from there.

Baja News

jrbaja - 6-10-2004 at 06:17 AM

yeah right!!

David K - 6-10-2004 at 06:57 AM

Threads morph into other subjects often. Freon just wasn't 'warm and fuzzy' enough I guess. If you want this to die, ask Margie to delete her first post in this thread or stop replying to it. Let's not bug Doug too much over trivial matters. Managing this forum is time consuming and doesn't pay well. How many have bought items from Doug's 'tienda', click on the google ads daily, or just sent in a contribution for the great source of entertainment this web site provides?

But obviously

jrbaja - 6-10-2004 at 07:02 AM

Doug has the help of David K. to manage this forum so it can't be all that much work.:lol:

David K - 6-10-2004 at 07:08 AM

JR, are being less or more 'human' with comments like that?

That would be "more"

jrbaja - 6-10-2004 at 07:15 AM

human like. We just can't help ourselves. No harm intended though, just teasin.
Pastramis are calling!

David K - 6-10-2004 at 07:23 AM

OK amigo, maybe Sunday? I got a sack of adult/mens shirts for you to take south (and maybe some freon too).

Got to go install some drip irrigation...

BajaNomad - 6-10-2004 at 07:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jrbaja
Doug has the help of David K. to manage this forum...
For the record... David K is not a manager of these forums.

Vocal with criticisms and suggestions, yes. Active participant, yes. Baja loco, yes. Forum manager, no.

:lol: ;)

--
Doug

Margie - 6-10-2004 at 10:25 AM

I'm not quite sure why this post was moved to a political line, and I'm not going to remove it.

It is Baja News, there are Americans involved in smuggling this stuff from Baja to the US. they buy cannisters of this stuff at $10.00 a pop and bring it across the Border and sell it for from between $100.00 to $200.00.

These are not people who you might invision as rough and gang-like, they are, alot of them, just retired joes making big profits off of a harmful substance.

So, when you are down here and wondering how some people can afford this or that, you'll have a clue as to why.






[Edited on 6-10-2004 by Margie]

[Edited on 6-10-2004 by Margie]

BajaNomad - 6-10-2004 at 11:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Margie
I'm not quite sure why this post was moved to a political line, and I'm not going to remove it.... It is Baja News...
The Baja News forum states that it is for non-political news items.

The subject here touches on environmental politics, border politics, U.S. politics, Mexican politics, etc.... and has just progressed further in that direction.

Makes it a pretty simple call to move it over.

:coolup:

--
Doug

Geez Margie

jrbaja - 6-10-2004 at 11:54 AM

This is old news. And if you know so much about it and rant and rave about it on here, why don't you do something about it if it bothers you? Almost everyone that has lived down here for a while knows who these people are. Do you?

And the real scoop

jrbaja - 6-10-2004 at 12:06 PM

Almost every respectable looking gringo that has lived down here for any length of time has been approached to take "things" across the border.
The reason some do this is because the going rate for one trip is around $2000.00u.s. The guys behind it supply you with a brand new car to drive across, all the paperwork in your name and they cross all the t's. And even dot the I's.
There is obviously good money in it and people still do it regularly. Gringos.
The other side to this is you are sooner or later going to get caught. Guaranteed.
It is against the law and as Margie says, you wouldn't believe the people that are doing it. Cracks me up. Sometimes retirement can be quite exciting!

MrBillM - 6-10-2004 at 07:52 PM

Amazing that this subject has gone on for so long.
As stated previously, this is OLD news. I think it
was back in 2000 that I first heard it. No surprise
to me. I've brought across my share of R12 and will
whenever I have a use for it. Although I've brought
it across for others at times, I only charge actual
cost. Guess I'm not yet ready to be a big-time
smuggler.

David K - 6-10-2004 at 08:02 PM

I was wondering if the entire world still uses R12 (except the U.S. and any other country that bows to the greenies), how can the ban be taken seriously here? Do the enviros think the air above the U.S. somehow stays within our borders or more importantly the air above R12 users doesn't move? :lol::?::O:no:

How can anything

jrbaja - 6-10-2004 at 08:53 PM

"how can the ban be taken seriously here?"


be taken seriously there ???????????????:light:


[Edited on 6/11/2004 by jrbaja]

Dar'iln JR.......

Debra - 6-11-2004 at 07:08 AM

Can we please get off Margies butt? (and can you please get off ours ("gringos") :)

We ALL make mistakes), (May God help us) we are only "people" we do the best that we can. The thing is, I know (as I said to MA Humfrevill, on the phone today) I KNOW ,........I know! If I would have a problem (in Baja, even MeNo would rush to my aid...it's all GOOD).. :spingrin:

FREON

Baja Bernie - 6-11-2004 at 07:59 AM

Take a look at the can and see who makes the stuff--You will find that it is the same companies that are no longer allowed to make or sell it in the U.S. 'cause, you know, we are the 'bad' people of the world. This allows us to pay much for for an inferior product that we are forced to purchase because we truly wish to save the worlds environment.
Regarding communisim being dead please see my comments on the Off Topic Board.

On yer arses

jrbaja - 6-11-2004 at 08:18 AM

I have a feeling that I am not the only one who thinks the way I do. And I also have a feeling that more people are beginning to realize that what I am saying isn't so far fetched.
As soon as the people in the u.s. start demanding that their tax dollars go to educating their kids and taking care of the elderly rather than building weapons of mass destruction, and then actually using them wherever they please, I will probably shut up.
There would be no need for all the money being wasted on border security if the parents and schools were doing what they easily could be, raising responsible, loving children with morals. Like most of Mexico. Buena suerte on that one but it can be done.
As far as margie is concerned, now that her rantings (mostly quotes from others) are hidden away where they belong, I will consider getting off her case.
But, I've always had this thing for gringas that move to San Antonio ( about as much Mexico as Huntington Beach) who think they are "all that" because they live in "the Baja". Sorry Jimmy.
Especially ones that pretend to know what they are talking about when it comes to almost every subject.:lol:

Margie - 6-11-2004 at 05:02 PM

Good. I don't like you either, I think you are on some kind of a weird control trip and you are easily threatened, especially by women.

I don't pretend to think I know everything about every subject, and I don't come in on a thread and trash it like a little baby having a temper tantrum, because he isn't getting all his attention.



[Edited on 6-12-2004 by Margie]

Margie

jrbaja - 6-11-2004 at 06:50 PM

If that's the way you want to look at it , that's OK. But as far as a Baja related board, go back and look at how many of your posts are Baja related.
By the way, you have a moco on your moustache.:lol:

And as far as doing something about it

jrbaja - 6-11-2004 at 06:57 PM

as opposed to whining and quoting intelligent people, you might consider doing something about it.




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Versatile with a short growth cycle
A critical element of the economy
An essential structural material in earthquake architecture
A renewable resource for agroforestry production.
A natural controllable barrier
An ancient medicine
Integrally involved in culture and the arts

THE FACTS

BAMBOO IS:

The fastest growing woody plant on this planet. It grows one third faster than the fastest growing tree. Some species can grow up to 1 meter per day. One can almost "watch it grow". This growth pattern makes it easily accessible in a minimal amount of time. Size ranges from miniatures to towering culms of 60 meters.

A critical element in the balance of oxygen / carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Bamboo i s the fastest growing canopy for the regreening of degraded areas and generates more oxygen than equivalent stand of trees. It lowers light intensity and protects against ultraviolet rays and is an atmospheric and soil purifier.

A viable replacement for wood. Bamboo is one of the strongest building materials. Bamboo's tensile strength is 28,000 per square inch versus 23,000 for steel. In the tropics is it possible to plant and grow your own bamboo home. In a plot 20m x 20m2, in the course of 5 years, two 8m x 8m homes can be constructed from the harvest. Every year after that the yield is one additional house per plot.

An enduring natural resource. Bamboo can be selectively harvested annually. Bamboo provided the first re-greening in Hiroshima after the atomic blast in 1945. Thomas Edison successfully used a carbonized bamboo filament in his first experiment with the light bulb.

Versatile with a short growth cycle. There are over 1000 species of bamboo on the earth. The diversity makes bamboo adaptable to many environments. It can be harvested in 3-5 years versus 10-20 years for most softwoods. Bamboo tolerates extremes of precipitation, from 30-250 inches of annual rainfall.

A critical element of the economy. Bamboo and its related industries already provide income, food and housing to over 2.2 billion people worldwide. There is a 3-5 year return on investment for a new bamboo plantation versus 8-10 years for rattan. Governments such as India, China and Burma with 19,800,000 hectares of bamboo reserves collectively, have begun to focus attention on the economic factors of bamboo production.

An essential structural material in earthquake architecture. In Limon, Costa Rica, only the bamboo houses from the National Bamboo Project stood after their violent earthquake in 1992. Flexible and lightweight bamboo enables structures to ?dance? in earthquakes.

A renewable resource for agroforestry products. Bamboo is a high-yield renewable natural resource: ply bamboo is now being used for wall paneling, floor tiles; bamboo pulp, for paper making, briquettes for fuel, raw material for housing construction, and rebar for reinforced concrete beams.

A soil conservation tool. Bamboo is exquisite component of landscape design. It's anti-erosion properties create an effective watershed, stitching the soil together along fragile river banks, deforested areas, and in places prone to earthquakes and mud slides. The sum of stem flow rate and canopy intercept of bamboo is 25% which means that bamboo greatly reduces rain run-off, preventing massive soil erosion.

An ancient medicine. Bamboo has for centuries been used in Ayurveda and Chinese acupuncture. The powdered hardened secretion from bamboo is used internally to treat asthma, coughs and can be used a an aphrodisiac. In China, ingredients from the root of the black bamboo help treat kidney disease. Roots and leaves have also been used to treat venereal disease and cancer. Sap is said to reduce fever and ash will cure prickly heat. Current research point to bamboo's potential in a number of medicinal uses.

Integrally involved in culture and the arts. Bamboo is a mystical plant as a symbol of strength, flexibility, tenacity, endurance and compromise. Throughout Asia, bamboo has for centuries been integral to religions ceremonies, art, music and daily life. It is the paper, the brush and the inspiration of poems and paintings. Among the earliest historical records, 2nd century B.C. were written on green bamboo strips strung together in a bundle with silk thread. Instruments made of bamboo create unique resonance.

A food source: Bamboo shoots provide nutrition for million of people worldwide. In Japan, the antioxidant properties of pulverized bamboo bark prevents bacterial growth and its used a natural food preservative. Bamboo ?litter? make fodder for animals and food for fish. Taiwan alone consumes 80,000 tons of bamboo shoots annually constituting at $50 million industry.

A landscape design element. Bamboo is an exquisite component of landscape design. For the human environment, bamboo provides shade, wind break, acoustical barriers and aesthetic beauty.

| Previous |

Or is that idea too un-gringa like for you?

Margie - 6-11-2004 at 06:58 PM

Look, arsehole, if someone has already answered a question on a Baja topic, why should I reiterate it?

Further, I have added alot to Baja News and Politics, and Surfing, important events like LNG facilities, and Pollution Control Data, and information sites for news affecting Baja.



Go jump in the lake !!!And get off my case. You like to intimidate women.



[Edited on 6-12-2004 by Margie]

See there

jrbaja - 6-11-2004 at 06:59 PM

I don't have a mind of my own either!

This is almost as much fun

jrbaja - 6-11-2004 at 07:02 PM

as doing what I really do.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Those that know me will appreciate that.hahahahahahaha

Margie - 6-11-2004 at 07:33 PM

David K. , you were wondering how many countries it is banned from ? So far, 139 countries bann the manufacture of Freon.

China and India have until 2010 to comply, and according to the the 1996 Montreal Protocal, "industrialized countries agreed to make payments to developing countries to help them purchase new refrigerator systems."

Yes, that was one hundred and thirty nine countries.



Packoderm - 6-11-2004 at 08:09 PM

Bamboo: http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/index.asp?id=47380

Grows up to .00002 miles per hour!

Margie - 6-11-2004 at 08:36 PM

Wait a minute, I want to say one more thing. I am tired of Jr saying we "moved to San Antonio". We originally moved to Punta Banda, 18 miles south of Ensenada, to use as a retirement home and also as a midway point to be able to go further south when we wanted. We HAD to move back up here because of 9-11.


Now, JR, I don't know why you are so priveledged not to have to clock in everyday from nine to five, but Jack still has to.

I'm really tired of you referring to this part as not really being Mexico. It is Mexico for cryin out loud.

San Antonio is NOT like it was 25 years ago, there are mostly Mexicans that live here !

You are in a dream world if you think all Baja California is impoverished little hovels back in the hills. This area is depictive of where Mexico is trying to go, more towards a three class society instead of two. The culture and arts are flourishing here, I can assure you. And the levels of education and sophistication are growing by the day here. Everyone can avoid Tijuana on their pursuits of travel into the so-called frontier, but you cannot ignore the vital importance of the huge international metropolitan area that is Tijuana and San Diego. It is the only bi national metropolitan area in the world, and because of this crossborder cooperation is a huge social experiment.

Check out http://www.sandiegodialogue.org for interesting comments, studies, and observations on this subject.

And, furthermore, I started coming down here over forty years ago, probably when you were still in diapers.



[Edited on 6-12-2004 by Margie]

Forget bamboo...

dbrooks - 6-11-2004 at 08:37 PM

Hemp baby, hemp is the answer.

And yes, I AM talking about the kind you smoke. I think that both jr and margie need a few bong loads...

HAAAAA!!!!!

Debra - 6-11-2004 at 08:54 PM

dbrooks..... and may we all be down wind when they do :o :yes: :spingrin:

Margie - 6-11-2004 at 08:56 PM

Wait a minute, this guy has been on my case from the get go, trashing my real-estate add, trashing out posts, making intimidating and snide remarks.

Take your bong and shove it dbrooks.

David K - 6-11-2004 at 09:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Margie
David K. , you were wondering how many countries it is banned from ? So far, 139 countries bann the manufacture of Freon.

China and India have until 2010 to comply, and according to the the 1996 Montreal Protocal, "industrialized countries agreed to make payments to developing countries to help them purchase new refrigerator systems."

Yes, that was one hundred and thirty nine countries.





Good evening Margie... it is almost sad to see two lefties fight... I am sorry you are getting harassed. You do tend to harp on industrial issues and JR sees Mexico as a purely agrarian society, me thinks...

As for your reply to my post... I was not talking about the manufactoring of freon. I was talking about the legal USE of freon.

Margie

Debra - 6-11-2004 at 09:06 PM

Me thinks you got the wrong guy? But, what the heck do I know? You two go to your rooms and kiss and make up!:biggrin:

Chat anyone?

Margie - 6-11-2004 at 09:14 PM

David, that number would remain the same. Now, there are stockpiles which can be used up, but what they are doing is trying to convert the existing stockpiles into another form, by breaking it down to a sodium level.

David K - 6-11-2004 at 09:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Margie
David, that number would remain the same. Now, there are stockpiles which can be used up, but what they are doing is trying to convert the existing stockpiles into another form, by breaking it down to a sodium level.


NO... how do you figure??? Only countries that make freon have people who use freon??? HUH?

Freon is probably only made in a dozen countries. WHERE do people use freon and how many countries made it illegal to use? Forget about manufactoring... it's NOT the same thing...

Margie - 6-13-2004 at 01:40 AM

'm sorry, I gave you the wrong number .
One Hundred and Seventy Countries ban Freon.

Of course, people are still using it, until they have retrofits, but the price mark up is so high, on the current stockpiles, that it is forcing people to retrofit.

There is a corelation between manufacture and use. It is obvious: If a product is not manufactured, and stockpiles are used up, there simply will be no more use.According to the Montreal Protocal, after all stockpiles are either used up or converted, then, yes, Freon would be illegal to use.

For example, the ban on Freon in Denmark alone has brought down consumption by 98 % over a ten-year period.

The exciting news, however, is that scientists are on to a conversion of the existing stockpiles of Freon to a soluble sodium form.

Of course, countries that do not ban the manufacture or use of Freon, still use it; however, through the United Nations, these remaining countries are being rewarded to more modern techniques of refrigeration with actual products and grants.



[Edited on 6-13-2004 by Margie]

Jack/Mar

The Gull - 6-13-2004 at 02:06 AM

Since you like posting links, here's one you haven't posted:

http://www.theonion.com/index.php?pre=1

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

[Edited on 6-13-2004 by The Gull]

[Edited on 6-13-2004 by The Gull]

whodat54321 - 6-15-2004 at 11:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dbrooks
Hemp baby, hemp is the answer.

And yes, I AM talking about the kind you smoke. I think that both jr and margie need a few bong loads...


and don't forget to change the water regularly.:!::barf:

MrBillM - 7-11-2004 at 11:40 AM

Just got back in the U.S.S.A. for a few days and brought back
10 cans of FREON. Need to recharge a couple of vehicles this
Summer.

A smuggler in our midst.

jrbaja - 7-11-2004 at 12:49 PM

Shame on you :lol::lol:

Margie - 7-11-2004 at 08:37 PM

Maybe next time you'll get popped.

Margie

jrbaja - 7-12-2004 at 08:22 AM

Have you ever considered just not posting rather than posting and then deleting the message?:light:

bajalou - 7-12-2004 at 01:45 PM

Few people I know that live in Baja are not into smuggling, but usually the other way, north to south.

Bajalou

MrBillM - 7-13-2004 at 01:20 PM

You're right about that. The amount of liquor, etc that I have brought North
pales in comparison to what has gone South, mostly building materials, Solar Gear
and Electronics. Recent years that has abated somewhat and I've found it easier
to simply declare when I bring across a large amount (using appropriate receipts, of
course) and pay a little duty.
As far as Margie's wish that I get "Caught", it is highly unlikely. Although this
trip could have been a problem because of the quatity involved, usually I just bring
across one or two items at a time and, if caught, they simply take them away. The one
exception was when I got caught with a case of Coronitos at a time they were not
available in the U.S. A friend wanted them and I hid them well. Unfortunately,
they were found in Secondary. Since they were so well hidden, they took offense and
actually fined me. The fine worked out to less than $3.00, but I spent over 3 hours
being "checked out" on the crime computers, etc. A fine show of force by the Feds.
I also went to Secondary almost every trip North after that for a year. I guess I
finally dropped out of the computer.

bajalou - 7-13-2004 at 07:08 PM

As many people in our area know, I was bringing some auto parts down (well hiddenI hoped) and got caught. They would not let me pay duty - believed they was sto much just for me - so impounded my van, confiscated the parts and fined me the cost of the parts. They did this all in a very professional manner, inventory of van and remaining contents, digital photos of van and contents as well as counterband. Gave me receipts etc. Took a couple days to get it all straightened out (mainly getting value for the stuff from the custom appraiser). They told me when I paid the fine, that they had no more problem with me, I was welcome to stay as long as I wished. I never was stopped again coming in except by the random red. - I have other stories of mis-adventure and will say that when the thing is taken care of, I was never bothered again - even tho repeatedly going thru the stop with the same people present. One time, 2 days after a situation, they pointed out I had a low tire and chan ged it for me.

The Mexican officials always were more polite and respectful than any going the other way. A trip to secondary in the USA is always a time for short barked comands and rudeness.

:biggrin::biggrin:

Mexitron - 7-13-2004 at 08:48 PM

I was coming back north, got sent to secondary....the usual barking orders, and then the iguana tells us to go stand off to the side while they search the truck.....iguana comes back holding a big baggie of candy from the front dashboard, in plain view...."what kind of pills are these?"...."those are Juicy Fruit candies sir"......"yah, right, what are they, speed, downers?"....no sir, its candy"...."then why don't you eat one for me"....."sure, be glad to".....gulp......iguana then takes one into his hand and breaks it apart, getting goopy sugar all over his fingers.....now we're trying to keep from laughing...."get out of here!"

Algodones

bajalou - 7-13-2004 at 09:04 PM

Going into USA thru Algodones one time 4-5 years ago, my wife and I were sent to secondary, ordered out of the van, raise the hood, then escorted into a small room. empty your pockets - I'll take that knife (about 3 in pocketknife) how much money do each have and count it in front of me. Then he's gone for maybe 10 minuets, comes back and gives back the knife and says OK you can go. I said what is this all about and he replied "We thought you were carrying a dead body under the back seat." (a rolled up sleeping bag). Only after we were cleared wouyld they tell us what we were accused of. And 10 min to look under one seat??

:biggrin: