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Margie
Banned
Posts: 270
Registered: 4-23-2004
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Freon
Freon ranks second only to cocaine as an illegal import. The price mark up is ten sometimes twenty times what the product costs in Mexico. Although
the main criminal element lies with Russian and Chinese smugglars, the product is transported in abundance across the Border by Americans and Mexicans
alike.
From The National Commisssion on Terroist Attacks Upon the US & The International Crime Threat Assessment:
3/26/04;
"...Criminal groups also smuggle environmentally harmful products, particularly ozone-depleting chlorofluorocarbons (CFC's) whose legal trade is
subject to stringent international retrictions. The illegal trade of these substances into the US and other markets is accomplished through false
labeling, counterfeit paperwork, and bogus corporations.
The size of the global black market for ozone-depleting substances is estimated by the UN to range from 20,000 to 30,000
metric tons annually, with more than half entering the US. Illegal imports of these substances are far more cheaper than CFC's that are legally
recycled or obtained from limited existing stocks."
[Edited on 6-2-2004 by Margie]
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
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Speaking of which, who can recommend a good-valued auto air-conditioning shop in Baja who can stop the leak and recharge the old-style Freon in my '92
Ford Ranger?
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
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Location: South of the broder
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There's a guy here in San Felipe that fixes and charges units. Don't know the address but it anyone plans on trying to use him, let me know and I'll
find the directions. A interesting fact, the price of freon here has dropped by about 1/3 or more in the last 10 years. Early 90's much bigger
demand than at present.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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bajaloco
Nomad
Posts: 159
Registered: 12-5-2002
Location: Huntington Beach, California
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Mood: wishin I was fishin
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Just have your old systems retro-fitted to the new refrigerant. It makes it alot less trouble to recharge and can be done anywhere. The cost to re-fit
has come down a long way in recent years.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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How do the enviro wackos plan to stop a volcano from erupting? Just ONE volcanic eruption produces more 'ozone depleating' gasses than all the cars
ever made...
Nature is greater than all of us... have some faith.
The new disaster movie is so funny, listen closely how the last ice age is explained (natural greenhouse gasses).. but somehow this one is caused by
man's automobiles! I loved the special effects... and laughed how they cast the president and VP (using look-alikes) as stupid and evil.
I Say: NO FREON IN RUSSIA FIRST! 
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sin nombre
Junior Nomad
Posts: 35
Registered: 5-8-2004
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...freon only poses a problem when it escapes from the system. Most systems rarely leak, and when they do, it is in hardly measurable amounts over
months and months. Then you simply re-charge it. But most AC in cars do not use Freon any more...
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Margie
Banned
Posts: 270
Registered: 4-23-2004
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Ammonia Gas
I don't have an air-conditioner in my car, I have a "68 VW Van and I just open up the wind wings.
My refrigerator uses ammonia gas, not Freon. Look it up, Ammonia Gas.
Maybe you need some of that hydroponic stuff from Canada.
Duh, once again !!
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sin nombre
Junior Nomad
Posts: 35
Registered: 5-8-2004
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from an informational website....
"In the original home refrigerator, the refrigerant used was essentially pure ammonia. Ammonia is a fairly volatile substance that has been found to
be toxic to humans, and since then has been replaced. Chlorofluorocarbons (CFC's) were created to reduce danger levels to humans. CFC's were later
determined to be harmful to the environment, so other substitutes were created in the early 1990's. Freon is the common refrigerant found in home
refrigerators today."
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Margie
Banned
Posts: 270
Registered: 4-23-2004
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Keep It Cool
You are right, sin nombre, the old style refrigerators were dangerous, but they were using methyl chloride, the modern refrigerator uses a refined
technique - it is called a continuous absorption refrigerator.
Today's refrigerators do not use CFC's, they use ammonia gas combined with continuous absorption. So, they are neither like the old 'gas'
refigerators which did leak and were finally banned after deaths and explosions, nor do they use CFC's (Freon).
Here are some references on the safety and properties of modern day refrigeration:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_EH350
http://www.energyquest.ca.gov/how_it_works/refrigerator.html
http://www.acs.comcen.com.au/refrigeration.html
[Edited on 6-2-2004 by Margie]
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Margie
Banned
Posts: 270
Registered: 4-23-2004
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New Boyfriend????
dbrroks, I'm confused.
Is there actually pity and mercy in your heart for a mere'marooon'????
I'm falling off my chair again.....
[Edited on 6-2-2004 by Margie]
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Mood: Happy!
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David K--just a distinction--I think volcanoes produce "greenhouse gases" like sulphurous compounds and carbon dioxide. "Ozone depleting" chemicals
are the CFCs which I don't think are produced by volcanoes, although I could be wrong about this.....you're right about having faith in nature--it
created us, we'd better have faith!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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I may be wrong, it is confusing... Do the enviros want us to quit driving cars: (CO2/greenhouse creator) or quit using air conditioning: (CFCs/ozone
depleters) OR don't use the car's AC: (both at the same time)??? CFCs are only man made, or do they exist in nature?
Doesn't global warming make more water vapor,
that makes clouds,
that reflect the sunlight,
that cools the earth,
that causes rain to fall,
that grows more plants,
that makes more oxygen,
that creates more life,
that makes more farts,
that warms the earth,
all over again....???????
NATURE WINS... EVERY TIME    
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Yah........I've heard pretty good arguments from both sides of the debate(and not from the hystericals)...just people trying to do good science. The
truth, I suspect lies somewhere in the middleground: ie-we are affecting the atmosphere to some degree, but probably not as much as is feared; but I
think it would be prudent to use less fossil fuels and to start to develop alternative cleaner fuels if for no other reason than to be less reliant
on unstable political regimes for our energy needs. Of course, if gas keeps going up in price the market(nature.....) will take care of that anyway!
Nature seems to be a capitalist at heart!
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Bajabus
Senior Nomad
Posts: 892
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Location: Elias Calles B.C.S. or NC USA
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Mood: My friends..it's good.
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Mexitron I agree.
Necessity is the mother of all invention.
As to the volcano argument put forth by some pollutopublicans, since when is it appropriate to point to one source of harmful emmissions in an attempt
to justify your own. This is the very tired and old elementary school argument of 2 wrongs make a right.
"Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked of such a thing."
Dwight David Eisenhower
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
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Location: San Diego County
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The point Max is if Nature can handle the 'bad' gasses spewed by a volcano, the tiny amount (by comparison) of manmade gasses are no threat and a poor
platform to base an anti-capitalism activist organization on.
The left depends on uneducated voters and uses emotion instead of logic (and facts) to stir their supporters. The destruction of the United States and
capitalism is the goal of the world's socialist & communists who have now banded together under the banner of the Greens and enviromental extremists.
The uneducated liberals simply goose step behind any put down of America following the fear spreading tactics of the educated liberals who are simply
after power for themselves. Just listen to Kerry and other's hypocracy... How many homes do they heat, how many gasoline cars do they drive, how many
private jets do they fly.. while asking us to cut back? Barbra Streisand makes me puke!
I wasn't going to bring politics into this, but you have opened that door ("pollutopublicans"!?!). That new disaster movie could have been good
without the enviro-stupidity and insults to our Prez and VP.
Have a great day, I am now going to be mean and drive my car and turn on the AC.
[Edited on 6-3-2004 by David K]
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dbrooks
Junior Nomad
Posts: 60
Registered: 1-7-2004
Location: San Diego
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Mood: The shock treat
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Get with the program...
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
... The destruction of the United States and capitalism is the goal of the world's socialist & communists who have now banded together under the
banner of the Greens and enviromental extremists. [Edited on 6-3-2004 by David K] |
Please...wake up old timer - communism is dead - didn't you read about it...in 1989!? Have you forgotten your hero, Ronnie Baby...
When all of you polluting old timers finally pass on, perhaps the "right thinkers" can finally do the right thing.
Get over the 1950's mentality.
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Bajabus
Senior Nomad
Posts: 892
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Location: Elias Calles B.C.S. or NC USA
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Mood: My friends..it's good.
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"enviro whackos"?. hummmm it seems to me that pollutopublican is an appropriate response.
What in gods name does communisim have to do with this?
I'm sure nature can "handle it". It's just what you mean by "handle it". I'm sure the earth and nature will be around for a long long time. What's
not sure is what kind of quality of life future generations will enjoy as a result of the head in the sand, I'm gonna do what ever I want screw the
rest of the world attitude that is epitomized by your reasoning.
If you enjoy toxic clouds over this nations cities, ever increasing poor air quality alerts that warn children and the eldery to stay inside, acid
rain, unchecked corporate pollution in the name of the almighty dollar and sitting behind a black smoke belching truck or bus then by all means march
on in goosestep like a lemming.
You do realize that your mode of lively hood, namely drip irrigation, is an engineered science solution that was responding to the problem of ever
dwindling sources of clean water. It grew out of desperate water shortage conditions in Israel in the late 50's and 60's.
Is there something wrong with the concept of conservation applied to dwindling resources?
Is there something wrong with seeking alternatives to pollution from carbon dioxide and sulphur emissions?
Exactly how is this a communist plot?
Do you think that the pursuit of riches and an opulent lifestyle should have precedence over the quality of life for future generations?
Do you look forward to the prospect of the sierra lagunas being stipped of pine trees or do you think "some regulation" is necessary to keep it from
happening?
If you had it to do over again would you have supported the regulation of cyanide and other toxic chemicals that have polluted ground wells in the
mining region of El Triunfo?
Yeah kerry is an idiot for driving an SUV to a pro environment rally and he has way too much money to really be able to argue that he understands the
needs and has compassion for the average American. I do however feel that taken as a whole Democrats are much more concerned with environmental
issues than pollutopublicans and that's on of the reasons I am a democrat and GW will lose by at least 100 electoral votes in November.
Rather that make blanket statments filtered through a myopic lens that focuses on communists trying to take someones SUV away, do you not agree that
it is responsible to take all views and evidence into consideration so that a balanced course of action can be formulated?
"Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked of such a thing."
Dwight David Eisenhower
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Debra
Super Nomad
Posts: 2101
Registered: 10-31-2002
Location: Port Orchard Wa./Bahia de Los Angeles BC
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Well......hum?
David, your comment "the left depends on uneducated voters and uses emotion instead of logic" got my dander up a bit my friend...... I have to ask,
are you refering to Democrats? This whole "them or us" mindset does no good for anyone (IMHO) We only have one planet (for the time being) and we
should take care of it.
Bajabus, you make some very valid points about concervation, I hear ya! We do need (and soon) to find alternate fuel, afterall, how many dinosaurs do
we have left to 'shleap' our lazy butts around this globe?
I'm also guilty, I bought a SUV for myseft at Christmas, and I bought it because I no longer wanted to impose on friends while in Baja to get to
places I couldn't in my 29mpg T-Bird, I also have to say that it seems 6 (or more) out of 10 cars on the road up here (Seattle) are SVUs which makes
no sense, to me at least....we don't have weather to deal with but, maybe 1 or 2 days out of every 5 yrs. or so. Oh, well.....that my dos centovios
worth.
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Natalie Ann
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2819
Registered: 8-22-2003
Location: Berkeley
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I'm with Debra on this..
the whole "us vs. them" approach is not helpful, especially when it comes to our planet. We're all human beings, EARTHLINGS - get it?!
Be yourself, everyone else is already taken.
.....Oscar Wilde
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Bajabus
Senior Nomad
Posts: 892
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Elias Calles B.C.S. or NC USA
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Mood: My friends..it's good.
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Hey what about me can I be in charge too?
"Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked of such a thing."
Dwight David Eisenhower
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