BajaNomad

Where is that old Baja road, you ask? (re-post)

David K - 2-20-2009 at 11:23 AM

For the interest of new Nomads (and old), here is an article on more recent Baja history I first posted in 2003:

posted on 12-13-2003 at 06:48 PM

Where is that old Baja road, you ask?



I am refering to the pre-December, 1973 Baja main road. Everything changed after December 1973 as far as Baja travel and number of visitors.

I was just a kid when my folks and I drove to the tip in 1966 in our Jeep Wagoneer. But, I was already infected with Baja Fever and my favorite book was Gerhard & Gulick's LOWER CALIFORNIA GUIDEBOOK (The Baja Bible).

We went to Gonzaga Bay the year before (1965) and to L.A. Bay the following year (1967). The next trip down to Baja Sur (to Loreto) was in July, 1973.

The highway was under construction in mid '73 and I took many notes and mileages as to its location compared with the old road.

That July, pavement ended at the Mision San Fernando junction (near El Progreso) and didn't start again until near Punta Prieta (in sections), with solid pavement starting about Villa Jesus Maria. We were on the old Baja main road from Agua Dulce (10 miles beyond San Agustin) to almost Laguna Chapala. We didn't know so much of the old road would be driven from the reports we heard. The trip was made in our (2WD) Ford LTD station wagon!

The old road locator:

Just east of where the highway crosses Arroyo El Rosario (headindg south) is where the old road left the valley using a side canyon. The new road stays above that canyon, just to the west.

The old road crosses the new and parallels it to the south, Rancho Aguajito and the turquoise mines are along it, below and south of the new highway.

El Progreso was moved north a half mile to the highway from the old road.

The road left to Rancho Penjamo is along the old road, as is Aguila and Guayaquil. The highway stays 1-2 miles to the west or southwest of the old road until 2 miles from Cataviņa.

The abandoned Pemex and trailer park 'San Agustin' is south of the original San Agustin, on the old road, as is Cafe Sonora a couple miles ahead.

Agua Dulce is off the old road, a couple miles to the left of Km. 157-159. The old road stays about 1-2 miles east/left of the highway in the La Virgen boulder area. The old road rejoins the highway just before the ruined palapa by the rock art cave, 2 miles before Catavina.

The highway is next to the old road past San Martin and over to the first little dry lake. At the Pedregroso boulder mountain, the old road went around the west side, whereas the new highway goes around the east side.

At the first sight of the Laguna Chapala valley, the old road continued straight towards the old ranch site, along a little hill just north of the dry lake bed. This section before the ranch was perhaps the worst in all of the Baja road... deep, fine powder Baja dust that would cover your vehicle completely. You would drive blind after fixing onto the trees by Rancho Chapala and hoping for the best! Then, after the ranch, you got to open it up and drive 60 mph on the dry lake to blow a lot of that dust off. That best of the old road only lasted a couple miles, however. That Chapala dust would stay with the Jeep for many car washes over the following years!

The new highway stays to the right of the dust field, along the hill, and to the right (west) of the dry lake. Rancho Chapala moved to the highway and was renamed Nuevo Chapala. The new Chapala to Puerto Calamajue (then on to Gonzaga and San Felipe) road was built from from about 1982-87. Coco started his corner after that first section was built.

Both old and new roads come together where you leave the Chapala valley and see that beautiful view of the desert and mountains to the south.

Beyond El Crucero (where the road turns from southeast to south at the base of a hill) both roads are together. In a few miles the old road goes off to the right (west) of the new and parallels it to Punta Prieta.

At Rosarito, the new highway swings west down the arroyo a couple miles then turns south to Guerrero Negro. The old main road went straight south from Rosarito and eventually went to the center of the peninsula at El Arco. Some truckers running supplies to the new town of Guerrero Negro went along the 'coast route', then took desert trails on to San Ignacio. The new highway does the same, passing near Guerrero Negro then swinging to the southeast for San Ignacio. The old road coming south from El Arco joins the new near Vizcaino (a new town started around 1972, about the time of new highway constructing here).

Vizcaino to San Ignacio finds both routes near each other. San Ignacio to Mulege, the same. First the old road is on the east side of the highway, then on the west and south side as the highway curves towards San Ignacio.

Along Bahia Concepcion, the old road can be seen in the cliff, right above the water in many places. This was built and maintained by the prisioners of the old territorial prison in Mulege (closed after the highway was built ending the isolation).

Just south of Bahia Concepcion, the old main road went inland via Comondu where today's highway goes south through Loreto. Both rejoin at Insurgentes. Travelers to Loreto could get to La Paz by driving to San Javier and then on to Santo Domingo on the main road. The road south of Loreto ended at Ligui.

Pavement in '66 began about 100 miles north of La Paz and ended again, about 10 miles south of La Paz. They were building the new road and we drove on it (unpaved) until past San Bartolo. It was just a two track jeep trail from there to Cabo San Lucas! The new highway stays to the east of Santiago and Miraflores, where the old road naturally went right through these pretty villages...

I hope some of you find this a bit interesting... thank you for allowing me to share from my childhood memories and later observations!

One of the maps from the Lower California Guidebook:



Here are the 'new' (since 1962) major roads/ highways added:






See the newest set of images showing the old road location, starting here: http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=48770

[Edited on 10-30-2010 by David K]

Thanks So Much!!!

Mulegena - 2-20-2009 at 11:43 AM

Oh, this is great-- a bit of not-so-distant but oh, so different past... reminds me of my mother recalling her childhood summer her parents took the children on a visit of the Alta California Missions. That sort of travel was no less a memorable adventure for a child in the 1920's. I envy you your childhood memories and appreciate how the experience fostered your love of the spirit of nature that still resides today in modern Baja California.

David K - 2-20-2009 at 04:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mulegena
Oh, this is great-- a bit of not-so-distant but oh, so different past... reminds me of my mother recalling her childhood summer her parents took the children on a visit of the Alta California Missions. That sort of travel was no less a memorable adventure for a child in the 1920's. I envy you your childhood memories and appreciate how the experience fostered your love of the spirit of nature that still resides today in modern Baja California.


You are very welcome!!!

I added a second map below the first, where I added the highways and graded roads that have been added since the 1960's.

Would you guys like to see the rest of central Baja, the same way?

surfer jim - 2-20-2009 at 04:34 PM

What about the area between ENSENADA and El Rosario.....any info on that?

David K - 2-20-2009 at 04:40 PM

Sure Jim...

There was a 'highway' to near El Rosario (paved to near Colonet, graded dirt most of the rest) in the 1960's.

The map(s) were to visualize the article on finding the old Baja road.

It is between El Rosario and Villa Insurgentes where the 'new' road was built (About 1969 to December, 1973)

TMW - 2-20-2009 at 07:39 PM

When you take the turn off road (hwy5) at Chapala heading to Gonzaga as you reach the east side of the dry lake there are some trees , a well and concrete forms next to the road as I recall. Is that the original location of Rancho Chapala?

David K - 2-21-2009 at 06:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TW
When you take the turn off road (hwy5) at Chapala heading to Gonzaga as you reach the east side of the dry lake there are some trees , a well and concrete forms next to the road as I recall. Is that the original location of Rancho Chapala?


YES! Arturo Grosso, brother of 'Mama' Anita Espinoza established that ranch... an important stop in the old pre-pavement Baja days!

Approaching Rancho Chapala from the north (see it in the distance), the worst part of the peninsula drive was this dust bowl of silt you had to drive through!:
1965:


Grosso's ranch house:
1955:


The best part of the peninsula drive was the dry lake bed.. after traveling at 15 mph for hundreds of miles, you could open it up and blow off some of the dust!
1956:


The above photos from Howard Gulick, The Lower California Guidebook author. All the photos: http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/speccoll/baja/gulick/ (this link is also on my web page)

Old Road Map

David K - 2-21-2009 at 06:18 AM



New since 1960's roads added (paved: heavy lines, graded: light lines)


[Edited on 2-21-2009 by David K]

David K - 2-21-2009 at 09:58 AM

Here's the main Baja highway in the 1960's at Bahia Concepcion... at high tide!



Photo from Mike McMahan

Here is perhaps the same place 40 years later... now used to get to a beach camp...

707 328r.JPG - 30kB

sanquintinsince73 - 9-22-2010 at 12:16 PM

Thanks David K!!

Bajatripper - 9-22-2010 at 01:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K

It is between El Rosario and Villa Insurgentes where the 'new' road was built (About 1969 to December, 1973)


I recall that the graded highway ended in the San Quintin Valley. The road south of the town of San Quintin on to El Rosario was comprised of multiple deep tracks filled with that fine-powdered silt that got into everything--much like the old road at the north end of Laguna Chapala also was at that time. The couple of deep arroyos that had to be crossed along that alluvial plain were also impressive. And, of course, the final descent into El Rosario was most definitely "Old Road."
Perhaps it left a deep impression on me since we once traveled the pre-paved road in a '65 Mustang--not exactly a preferred method for touring Baja in those days.

In those days, El Rosario had the distinction of being where "civilization" (and mail service) ended until one crossed into BCS.

Great photos of the Old Road along Conception Bay. I remember well where that stretch was (and still is, since it is used for access to El Coyote beach). Remember the little white cabin with the red roof that was next to the palms, just beyond this section of road? I remember seeing that cabin on the cover a guide book, you probably know which book that would be, David.
I've always had a secret desire to own one of those old Willis 4WD, just because that is what Howard Gulick had. It would have had to have been much more comfortable than that '44 Dodge Power Wagon/Army Ambulance we traveled about in most of the time--the anti-shrapnel "insulation" in the walls made the interior like an oven in the summers. I can remember the streams of mud that flowed down our faces and necks as our sweat conbined with the road dust we lived in.
Aaaahhh, great memories, David, thanks.





[Edited on 9-28-2010 by Bajatripper]

Cypress - 9-22-2010 at 01:45 PM

David K. Thanks for the information.

David K - 9-22-2010 at 03:33 PM

El gusto es mio!

Steve, please write some stories of your travels in the old pre-pavement days, when you can... I have done a few, but I was pretty young. Good thing my memory holds on to Baja so well!

We traveled the length of Baja in the first time in 1966, in a Jeep Wagoneer... 2 weeks to get to Cabo San Lucas, then came back to La Paz via Todos Santos to take the new ferry to Mazatlan to drive on pavement back home. Gerhard & Gulick's book was the 'Baja Bible'... If there was a fork in the road but not in the book, it was just a detour and rejoined the the other branch shortly ahead... we would learn.

Pavement ended before Colonet and didn't begin again until some hundred miles north of La Paz. South of La Paz pavement ended in 10 miles, and the new graded road went as far as San Bartolo getting near Los Barriles. The rest of the road to Cabo was just a single track 'Jeep trail'! In 1970, a paved road reached Cabo from La Paz, and in two more years reached north to Santa Rosalia... a fantastic rate of construction. The rate in the northern stae was far slower... in 1972, the pavement only reached San Quintin valley!

1973 is when the pace really went ballistic... From Km. 0 on the south side of San Quintin (Lazaro Card##es) to Santa Rosalia... all in one year... finished in November and opened officially on December 1, 1973 at the base of the giant eagle monument at the border between the state of Baja Califronia and the territory of Baja California Sur.

bent-rim - 9-23-2010 at 10:58 AM

I printed all of the blue rectangles on the Gerhard and Gulick maps from 1962 on David's website and taped them together. It makes for an impressive map about 6' long. Again, thank you David for all of your efforts regarding Baja.

Edited due to misspelling

[Edited on 9-23-2010 by bent-rim]

That Old Baja road

vacaenbaja - 9-23-2010 at 11:33 AM

David,
I really enjoyed reading the book The long walk to Mulege
I have had some difficulty however attempting to retrace
the route taken by the travelers. The name places between
Chapala and San Ignacio are difficult to locate on my baja
Atlas. Perhaps certain watering holes and water ways were
known by other names E. G. agua Leon, San Julio Wash.
Any ideas on what you think was their route and or the name of the various ranches they stopped at?

[Edited on 9-23-2010 by vacaenbaja]

David K - 9-23-2010 at 06:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vacaenbaja
David,
I really enjoyed reading the book The long walk to Mulege
I have had some difficulty however attempting to retrace
the route taken by the travelers. The name places between
Chapala and San Ignacio are difficult to locate on my baja
Atlas. Perhaps certain watering holes and water ways were
known by other names E. G. agua Leon, San Julio Wash.
Any ideas on what you think was their route and or the name of the various ranches they stopped at?

[Edited on 9-23-2010 by vacaenbaja]


Yah, I like that book a lot! When they did their walk (in 1921), automobiles were pretty rare and any roads went between active mine camps... Agua Leon and Leon Grande are both west and north of Punta Prieta... The main road avoided them as it went between Laguna Chapala and Punta Prieta. Agua Leon was a spring and Leon Grande was the mine camp... both named in the book.

See them on this 1930 map:



On this 1941 auto. map of Baja, you can see Leon Grande and San Julio (on the coast, west of Chapala):



On the 1930 map there is a San Julio Ranch south-west of Catavņa and a San Julio on the coast. The ranch is also near the Las Palmas mentioned in the book!


David K - 9-23-2010 at 06:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bent-rim
I printed all of the blue rectangles on the Gerhard and Gulick maps from 1962 on David's website and taped them together. It makes for an impressive map about 6' long. Again, thank you David for all of your efforts regarding Baja.

Edited due to misspelling

[Edited on 9-23-2010 by bent-rim]


LOL, I have done the very same!:light:

DavidE - 9-23-2010 at 06:44 PM

Ya otta seen la cuesta de lucifer before it was citified. And the dust on Chapala. Could have sworn that damned dust got inside factory bottled coca cola.

Used to be I could sneak off of the asphalt and be right back on the original track. But that was maybe twenty years ago or more and I guess it's all fading into the mist by now.

David K - 9-23-2010 at 10:34 PM

Nature and erosion are fading away the old road in the places it isn't still used. Here's a photo I took of it last summer, south of El Arco/ north of San Ignacio:


Skeet/Loreto - 10-28-2010 at 08:45 AM

Thanks for some good Memories David. I got out my old maps and checked you along the way.

On the Weekend the Road Opened My Son and I had been in Loreto after coming across the Ferry. My wife and Daughter with relatives strated up the new road.

Todd and I in my Cessna 170 b got stuck in Santa Rosalilla and landed at the old City Airport. The Winds being so strong two guys held down the Wingtips when I landed and Tasied in to Tie Down.
Nest moring took off and landed in the Stree in Guerreo Nego to get Fuel. Had not luck so took off headed North, As I approached Lake Chapala i knew I was very low on Fuel so opted to land at the Lake chapala Strip and tied up next to the Ranch House,

The owners had moved over to the New Road into their new Rancho Chapala Home.

We Hiked to the road and caught a ride to Sta Innes where Senora Josephine got me some Fuel and two guys in a Pick up who took me back down and filled my Tanks. All for $10 !!!!

Great Times

Skeet

bent-rim - 10-28-2010 at 11:12 AM

I printed up that old map listed on your website and it ends up being a little over 6' long. It's very interesting and I remember that the old route went from water site to water site. Thanks again for of of your posts.

posted on 2-21-2009 at 01:12 PM

mcfez - 10-28-2010 at 11:20 AM

DK....
WOW!!!!!! A adobe house. Can you pin point where that photo was taken at?

I love to see old sites of "once upon a time". This would be a incredible find to see if it was still in shape.

[Edited on 10-28-2010 by mcfez]

Barry A. - 10-28-2010 at 11:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Thanks for some good Memories David. I got out my old maps and checked you along the way.

On the Weekend the Road Opened My Son and I had been in Loreto after coming across the Ferry. My wife and Daughter with relatives strated up the new road.

Todd and I in my Cessna 170 b got stuck in Santa Rosalilla and landed at the old City Airport. The Winds being so strong two guys held down the Wingtips when I landed and Tasied in to Tie Down.
Nest moring took off and landed in the Stree in Guerreo Nego to get Fuel. Had not luck so took off headed North, As I approached Lake Chapala i knew I was very low on Fuel so opted to land at the Lake chapala Strip and tied up next to the Ranch House,

The owners had moved over to the New Road into their new Rancho Chapala Home.

We Hiked to the road and caught a ride to Sta Innes where Senora Josephine got me some Fuel and two guys in a Pick up who took me back down and filled my Tanks. All for $10 !!!!

Great Times

Skeet


Skeet------------that is an incredible story----------yes, those were exciting and adventurous days!!!! Thanks for reminding some of us what brought us to Baja in the first place--------it WAS the adventures, at least for me.

Barry

David K - 10-28-2010 at 12:28 PM

While Howard Gulick (Lower California Guidebook) made the most accurate maps showing the old road in Baja, it was Cliff Cross who drew the most 'fun to look at' maps, for his 1970 Baja Guide... a bird's eye view of Baja:









Since he drew them as he saw it, they are pretty good views of Baja in the late 1960's.

The only mistakes I can think of above is the Agua Dulce spring on the wrong side of the road and the Calamajue mission location (shown where the mill ruins are, he later corrected that in an update note) on the opposite side of the arroyo.

David K - 10-28-2010 at 12:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
DK....
WOW!!!!!! A adobe house. Can you pin point where that photo was taken at?

I love to see old sites of "once upon a time". This would be a incredible find to see if it was still in shape.

[Edited on 10-28-2010 by mcfez]


It is alongside of the road to Coco's Corner and Gonzaga, near the hill across the valley from Hwy. 1. Nothing but an outline remains of the Grosso ranch house (Mama Espinoza's oldest brother, Arturo)

I will show you on Google Earth... as well as show a section of the old road, you can drive on still (perhaps) north of Cataviņa... stay tuned!

Old Rancho Laguna Chapala de Arturo Grosso

David K - 10-28-2010 at 04:09 PM







Now looking from Hwy. 1:



Up close:


David K - 10-30-2010 at 12:09 AM

Okay, I decided to do a fresh, revised thread of the old and new roads as seen from space and on old maps... I just posted El Rosario to Cataviņa, please have a look and enjoy!: http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=48770