BajaNomad - DO NOT GIVE BORDER PROTECTION PEOPLE ANY CRAP OR ELSE!

DO NOT GIVE BORDER PROTECTION PEOPLE ANY CRAP OR ELSE!

ELINVESTIG8R - 3-4-2009 at 12:57 PM

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1351216

Woooosh - 3-4-2009 at 01:06 PM

When I read that article I laughed. They were both idiots IMHO.

There are signs posted in front of the San Ysidro POE inspection booths that says the agents are supposed to give a "a cordial welcome" (someone correct the actual wording if I misquoted). I should think a simple "please" and "thank you" once in a while wouldn't hurt and would follow the cordial part of what that welcome greeting was supposed to project.

I would not spend a half day in secondary over it though.

[Edited on 3-4-2009 by Woooosh]

DanO - 3-4-2009 at 01:10 PM

I'm sure all the people lined up behind this wanker were happy that he decided to make their wait longer by throwing a hissy fit instead of following a simple and direct order by a law enforcement officer. And he's a repeat offender. He'd better get a thicker skin or he'll find himself on a watch list (if he isn't already).

nancyinpdx - 3-4-2009 at 01:19 PM

I think they were both stupid and each over reacted. I nevet give anyone in major authority any guano even if they're a jerk. I value my freedom.

Bajahowodd - 3-4-2009 at 01:20 PM

Sounds like there is more to the story. The traveler probably raised suspicion in some way. He was a male, apparently travelling alone. Have not often seen people asked to get out of their vehicle. The story about driving all the back to Washington state to retrieve a wallet?

mtgoat666 - 3-4-2009 at 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DanO
I'm sure all the people lined up behind this wanker were happy that he decided to make their wait longer by throwing a hissy fit instead of following a simple and direct order by a law enforcement officer. And he's a repeat offender. He'd better get a thicker skin or he'll find himself on a watch list (if he isn't already).

The people that enter law enforcement are more often than not a-holes, that's why you should not trust law enforcement and avoid interacting with law enforcement. One Canadian has learned this the hard way :lol:

David K - 3-4-2009 at 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

When you are robbed or assulted, do you still feel so negative about them? Or are you one of those gun carriers and never have to become a victim?

Diver - 3-4-2009 at 01:36 PM

Hmmm, almost every time I cross back into the US, they ask me to turn off the motor and get out of the vehicle.
I always comply; never noticed if they said please; they have guns.

I understand that the guards have a job to do and at times it can be very hazardous.
They are trained to maintain control; this guy tried to win control and failed.
I see nothing wrong with giving them the "room" to do their job - easier for all.

bajaguy - 3-4-2009 at 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

The people that enter law enforcement are more often than not a-holes, that's why you should not trust law enforcement and avoid interacting with law enforcement.

Another wanker!!

BajaDove - 3-4-2009 at 01:48 PM

I'm sorry it was an American border guard, But there are reasons some people don't get no respect.

vandenberg - 3-4-2009 at 01:55 PM

Quote:

The people that enter law enforcement are more often than not a-holes

And that's an understatement.

oldjack - 3-4-2009 at 02:08 PM

Did I hear the stampede of lawyers heading for this man's home(s)???? sounds like a few bucks are going to be made... after all.... unreasonable force has to be worth a palapa in Baja

tripledigitken - 3-4-2009 at 02:25 PM

Isn't it just common sense "not to give Border Protection people crap..."?

And the statement that more often than not people enter law enforcement are A holes is a very enlightened one.

Ken

DENNIS - 3-4-2009 at 03:42 PM

The zone is devoid of the nicetys of life, manned by people doing a difficult job. It's only three minutes out of your life. Accept it for what it is and move on. They can't hurt your feelings if you don't give them that power. Why do so many people allow them to ruin the day? That's the weakness in the process.

You cannot make this $#!+ up

Dave - 3-4-2009 at 03:58 PM

"Once, he said, he asked a Canadian border agent to be more polite when requesting documents, to which the agent responded with a sheepish "please."

elgatoloco - 3-4-2009 at 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
The zone is devoid of the nicetys of life, manned by people doing a difficult job. It's only three minutes out of your life. Accept it for what it is and move on. They can't hurt your feelings if you don't give them that power. Why do so many people allow them to ruin the day? That's the weakness in the process.

What he said! :smug:

Frank - 3-4-2009 at 04:14 PM

I always approach it like a sales job. Im selling him the fact that Im a good guy and he doesnt have to send me to secondary. :biggrin:

Just part of the trip.

40 years without a b-tch or whine!

Bronco - 3-4-2009 at 04:20 PM

After all these years and 12 as a permanent resident I really have no major complaint. At times some were obvious trainees and needed some adjustment.

I cross at least twice a month. It's very strange ,I'm polite with passport at the ready, since I don't drink and always clean up before I head to the US I have had some very short conversations. Even when it' a long, with steaming temps I understand until they revise the system, and it really needs it, be nice the guy on your right could be a terriorists who is gonna pull the plug for not being treated well.

ELINVESTIG8R - 3-4-2009 at 04:29 PM

I always say yes-sir and no-sir. Having been in Law Enforcement for 23 years I do not give any lip to anyone doing the cop job...Of course I would not hesitate to rebuke a cop who was sirly to me for no reason and go through the evolution whether good bad or ugly.

bajabound2005 - 3-4-2009 at 04:58 PM

We have never encountered any border patrol agent that was not friendly, polite and cordial...and we cross every few weeks. We offer them the same courtesies. A cheerful Good Morning, have all the windows down, sunglasses removed, etc - goes a long way.

cantinflas - 3-4-2009 at 05:09 PM

Everybody has good days and bad days. Must be a sucky job IMHO. Just the facts sir.

Bajahowodd - 3-4-2009 at 05:15 PM

Who among us wishes to be sent to secondary. Just common sense. Be courteous. The article was in a Canadian paper. I think the nutjob was looking for his 15 minutes of fame.

BajaGringo - 3-4-2009 at 07:14 PM

You are right, it is a sucky job at times. Most jobs in law enforcement can be. I have my son-in-law here with us right now and he is a deputy sheriff serving on a gang enforcement unit in Kern County. I read the article to him and asked his opinion. He said a lot would have to do with what happened leading up to asking the guy to turn off his car and the tone of the conversation.

He said that if the guy had not been cooperative up to that point it is somewhat understandable to a degree that the officer was in no mood to respond to the guy's request for "please". If the guy had been cooperative up to that point then the officer was "stupid" in my son-in-laws terms to not have just said "please" and proceed with the process.

My son-in-law also added that this happens from time to time in his job with subjects, including someone he has just chased down for five blocks, jumping over fences and fighting to put cuffs on. He shared with me that after all that he would still say "please", if a suspect requested it if it meant not having to fight with him to just lower his head and get into the back seat of the patrol car.

"A smart officer learns to be pragmatic", in his words.

Obviously not all in law enforcement have learned that lesson...

lizard lips - 3-4-2009 at 11:01 PM

Just do what they say and get on with it, and goat, get a life a--hole.

Bajahowodd - 3-4-2009 at 11:46 PM

I do think that goat is right up to a point. Folks that get into law enforcement are not rocket scientists or financial theoretitians, but too many off them fail to understand the culture that they are policing, Academies should provide more real time training to their students.

Hook - 3-5-2009 at 06:28 AM

I'd like to see this guy go through the new San Ignacio checkpoint. :spingrin:

Canadian Borders and The Mounties

Pompano - 3-5-2009 at 07:16 AM

edited out ..my post belongs in a far different thread theme. From my personal experiences with border enforcement people and issues, I would have to make things up to be negative.

[Edited on 3-5-2009 by Pompano]

Cardon Man - 3-5-2009 at 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

The people that enter law enforcement are more often than not a-holes, that's why you should not trust law enforcement and avoid interacting with law enforcement. One Canadian has learned this the hard way :lol:

That's a fact. A sad, unfortunate fact. Avoid "the man" at all costs. Your wallet will thank you.

Barry A. - 3-5-2009 at 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cardon Man

Quote:

That's a fact. A sad, unfortunate fact. Avoid "the man" at all costs. Your wallet will thank you.

Of course, this premise is silly, and simply not true.

But I agree that it never pays to "mess with the man"-----that is just common sense.

Barry

Sticking to a personal principle

toneart - 3-5-2009 at 01:13 PM

is dumb when in conflict with Law Enforcement. You may be seething inside, but "da Man" got da gun...or pepperspray. Just do what you are ordered to do or he/she could definitely turn you upside down.

Later, when you get away from the situation, you can b-tch all you want. Maybe even write a letter to the proper authorities. Although, in my opinion, the guy crossing the border had a dubious principle under the circumstances.

As to the psychological makeup of Law Enforcement Officers, I will refrain from commenting. It takes a certain mindset. Just bear that in mind.

As for any border crossing, you are, in effect, stateless until the Officer decides to admit or repatriate you. Compliance is usually the expedient way. :rolleyes:

ELINVESTIG8R - 3-5-2009 at 01:22 PM

Postscript...If you decided to go the "Contempt-of-Cop" route they, the police, will find something to arrest you for. Usually they do not have to look too far.

Barry A. - 3-5-2009 at 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart

As to the psychological makeup of Law Enforcement Officers, I will refrain from commenting. It takes a certain mindset. Just bear that in mind.

I agree with amost all of what both Tony and Elinvestor says.

For me, a career in LE enabled me to be outside, mainly making my own decisions, doing "good" (ie. something worthy), helping folks, it was interesting and varied, and above all it was exciting--------in short, a great job!! Most all of my fellow LE folks felt similar, and as a supervisor for many years I seldom encountered the cop that some of you describe. None the less, they do exist, for sure.

I loved my work, but don't miss it. Retired for 13 years now, and loving it totally!! :biggrin:

Barry

Mango - 3-5-2009 at 09:56 PM

This reminds me of the last time I crossed into the USA. The lady in front of me was honking her horn and cutting people off in line - all the while with 4 young children in the car (Great role model, not!)

Anyways, she got sent to secondary and I thought it was awesome.

Then, I role up. Car load full of stuff. Good day sir, yes sir, no sir. The CBP guy commented on how he liked one of my paintings that was still drying, I thanked him. He sent me on my way and I bid him a good day.

Moral to the story is you tend to get back what you put out.

DENNIS - 3-5-2009 at 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mango
you tend to get back what you put out.

I tried that line in high school......got nothing.

nancyinpdx - 3-5-2009 at 11:45 PM

:lol:

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Mango
you tend to get back what you put out.

I tried that line in high school......got nothing.

Bajahowodd - 3-6-2009 at 12:20 AM

What is with all those idiots changing lanes in the queue? In the end, every lane makes to the booth within a couple of minutes of each other.

BajaDove - 3-6-2009 at 08:50 AM

Hook
What makes you think he'd get through San Ignacio? Wouldn't want to be behind him.

Timo1 - 3-6-2009 at 09:00 AM

If it makes you feel any better
This idiot got his mug on Canadian television news networks and is the
laughing stock of at least our community if not Canada
What a bozo

Attitudes

MrBillM - 3-6-2009 at 02:37 PM

Arrived Northbound at the Mexicali Eastern Crossing yesterday afternoon. Short line that would "usually" be about a 5-10 minute wait. HOWEVER, some sort of stepped-up inspection was going on and the wait took 30 minutes. Lots of rifling through people's trunks and campers. Lots of papers being inspected.

Arrived at the Kiosk with a smile and a "good afternoon". revceived the same. Handed over our two passports before being asked. Officer looked into my camper shell FILLED with ice chests and boxes/bags. Asked what was in the Ice Chests and what else we were bringing back. Wished us a good day.

Three minutes total.

Darned A-Holes.

Skip_Mac - 3-8-2009 at 02:04 PM

Being friendly and cooperative is NO guarantee of reasonable treatment. Nor is un-threatening appearance.

Crossing the San Ysidro at 7pm a week ago, I was confronted in the line three cars back from the both, questions with less than no civility and treated me like a criminal. Among other things, I was ordered to turn off my engine, hand one of the four officers the keys and stay in the car. An officer held my drivers side door shut and asked me a bunch of meaningless questions, my job title, the name of the company I worked for, what was in my car. FYI, I am an upper 50's white haired angle male, driving a newer Prius with California plates and a UCDavis license frame. They never asked for ID or passport. My camping and fishing gear were all visible in the back. One officer demanded that I open the "secret compartment", and I told him I didn't understand.

What worries me most, is that I was confined where I could not observe the car search. I am familiar with planted "evidence" issues and an very uncomfortable being placed in a position where I cannot exercise my constitutional right to observe.

I have received much more courteous treatment from Oakland Cops after they shot up a peaceful picket line at the Oakland Harbor, with "Less Lethal weapons". The cops behind the shock troops were actually behaving as human, humane beings.

Somehow it seems USA Constitutional rights do not apply within an undefined zone around the USA:Mexico border.

The border crossing back to the US was the only sour note in an otherwise wonderful vacation to BCS.

Woooosh - 3-8-2009 at 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
What is with all those idiots changing lanes in the queue? In the end, every lane makes to the booth within a couple of minutes of each other.

Passive aggressive culture. The only time Mexicans have any control or power in their lives is when they are behind the wheel.

Barry A. - 3-8-2009 at 02:18 PM

Obviously it was the "prius" and the "UC" lic. frame--------

------sorry you had a bad experience------you may have been meeting the description of a "tagged" vehicle and occupants, and they were just being careful, as trained.

Your right, tho, your "rights" are much less at the border sometimes--------it is what it is. They should have explained, tho, why the semi-harsh treatment.

Barry

Bajahowodd - 3-8-2009 at 02:18 PM

Who knows whether the Customs guys have the same apocryphal mandate that traffic cops have about issuing a certain number of tickets, and are required to hassle a certain percentage daily?

Barry A. - 3-8-2009 at 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Who knows whether the Customs guys have the same apocryphal mandate that traffic cops have about issuing a certain number of tickets, and are required to hassle a certain percentage daily?

Urban myth alert!!!!!!!!!

There is no "quota" in the strict sense of the word. However, studies have been done and it has been determined that "so many violations" will occur in a given place, and you are expected to average a pre-determined amount of apprehensions based on those studies if you are truly doing your job in THAT "place".

At least that was the way it was when I was a street cop in San Diego 155 years ago.

It is a "measurement" tool management uses to see if you are doing the job you were hired to do----nothing more.

Barry

BajaGringo - 3-8-2009 at 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
What is with all those idiots changing lanes in the queue? In the end, every lane makes to the booth within a couple of minutes of each other.

I had this very discussion several months ago with a friend who I hated to cross the border with. He doesn't have a Sentri pass and sits in one lane all the way to the gate. Never crossed with him in less than an hour and a half - usually two most times. He said the same thing you do and we made a bet. We both arrived at the San Ysidro crossing at the same time and with Nextel radios in hand. I made a "few" of my precision, time tested lane changes, crossed and then stopped at the Burger King just across the border. I ordered our lunch and sat down. I checked in with my friend and he reported that he was "getting close". I finished my lunch (and half of his fries) and had refilled my soda when he finally arrived. I showed him the time stamp on my receipt and I had crossed a full 25 minutes quicker.

Crossing once a month is probably no big deal but to daily border crossers it adds up and is why you see so many jockey around, changing lanes. The problem is that too many don't understand why the traffic moves the way it does and why/when you need to make a lane change. That is why you will often see many of them get to the gate about the same time as those who just stay in one lane.

It is a science practiced by artists...

Woooosh - 3-8-2009 at 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skip_Mac
Being friendly and cooperative is NO guarantee of reasonable treatment. Nor is un-threatening appearance.

Crossing the San Ysidro at 7pm a week ago, I was confronted in the line three cars back from the both, questions with less than no civility and treated me like a criminal. Among other things, I was ordered to turn off my engine, hand one of the four officers the keys and stay in the car. An officer held my drivers side door shut and asked me a bunch of meaningless questions, my job title, the name of the company I worked for, what was in my car. FYI, I am an upper 50's white haired angle male, driving a newer Prius with California plates and a UCDavis license frame. They never asked for ID or passport. My camping and fishing gear were all visible in the back. One officer demanded that I open the "secret compartment", and I told him I didn't understand.

What worries me most, is that I was confined where I could not observe the car search. I am familiar with planted "evidence" issues and an very uncomfortable being placed in a position where I cannot exercise my constitutional right to observe.

I have received much more courteous treatment from Oakland Cops after they shot up a peaceful picket line at the Oakland Harbor, with "Less Lethal weapons". The cops behind the shock troops were actually behaving as human, humane beings.

Somehow it seems USA Constitutional rights do not apply within an undefined zone around the USA:Mexico border.

The border crossing back to the US was the only sour note in an otherwise wonderful vacation to BCS.

You are fair game for ICE inspections well before you get up to the actual booth. They always follow that same protocol with the keys, passport, etc. I even went through it when volunteering to allow the dog trainer to plant a drug pack on my truck. People couldn't tell if I was being busted or whatever- then the drug dog hit on it on his first pass by and everyone applauded. The first two trucks the ICE asked to assist them both said no thanks- which surprised me.

I have a hybrid and they have checked my suv closely a few times because the battery systems set off their machines. The density readings go off their scales. Since you hadn't reached the electronics scan or plate reader yet, maybe they had a tip on a prius drug/coyote crossing for that morning and were just checking them all. One day I noticed it was every white vans.

mtgoat666 - 3-8-2009 at 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
I even went through it when volunteering to allow the dog trainer to plant a drug pack on my truck. People couldn't tell if I was being busted or whatever- then the drug dog hit on it on his first pass by and everyone applauded. The first two trucks the ICE asked to assist them both said no thanks- which surprised me.

You got to be an idiot to allow an ICE to plant drugs on your car for a "practice." Never trust law enforcement, it's a profession that attracts megalomaniacs and imbeciles.

Bad Times at the Border

MrBillM - 3-8-2009 at 02:41 PM

I'm surprised to hear that there are so many White Guys being Harassed. That makes no sense at all since it was here that I heard awhile back that the ones they're always on the lookout for those who are DWB (Driving while Black).

I was actually a bit disappointed at the ease of crossing last week. The agent who looked into my camper stopped for a moment to look at the NRA Blue Eagle on the back window. I was hoping he'd ask about it so I could go into my rehearsed spiel about the Coming New Deal. He probably thought it was just another National Rifle Association decal.

Woooosh - 3-8-2009 at 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

You got to be an idiot to allow an ICE to plant drugs on your car for a "practice." Never trust law enforcement, it's a profession that attracts megalomaniacs and imbeciles.

I was just hoping I could keep the drug pack if the dogs didn't find it... :tumble: