BajaNomad

Villages of Loreto Bay

Marie-Rose - 4-16-2009 at 07:41 PM

In 2003 I posted re: the "upcoming development" of Villages of Loreto Bay and I am not sure if any post ever got more hits but I remember that it was very active!!
After reading a post from FlyfishingPam... whom I always open... it just got me thinking about how the Villages were progressing.
I would be interested in knowing if there are any owners who are Nomads, and if they are happy with their investment and still enjoying visiting their homes/condos... whatever. Read about some financial concerns but more interested in whether people who bought there (or anybody who knows anyone who bought/lives there) are happy to spend their time in "the villages".
Just curious...:?::?:

[Edited on 2009-4-17 by Marie-Rose]

flyfishinPam - 4-16-2009 at 09:17 PM

I would be surprised if any Loreto Bay Homeowners will respond to this. Let's just say things there are not going as planned. And they have yet to "create more water than they consume", "tread lightly" or even come close to being "sustainable".

Bajahowodd - 4-16-2009 at 11:03 PM

Sounded real good at the time, eh?

CaboRon - 4-17-2009 at 05:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Sounded real good at the time, eh?


It was a lie from the beginning .....:fire:

Cypress - 4-17-2009 at 05:40 AM

No parking, no sewage, no water! No way!:no:

bill erhardt - 4-17-2009 at 06:38 AM

I met a couple this week who have a unit at Loreto Bay. The first LB property owners I have met in the six years I have lived in Loreto. They have a boat that they leave in Loreto at the home of their Mexican skipper because at Loreto Bay there is no parking for a car, much less a boat. The appeal of Property ownership down there, even without the grossly inflated cost, remains a mystery to me.

djh - 4-17-2009 at 06:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
No parking, no sewage, no water! No way!:no:


Oh yeah, they have water..... They managed to ""cut in line" right in front of the town of Loreto in the supply line.... I don't know what meddling created this sweetheart deal, but I have a hunch !

Unbelieveable..... when a student in MY school cuts, I send him to the back of the line and he / she looses recesses for the day. LB, however, seems to have actually been rewarded for their shameless profiteering at the expense of others.

BTW: Hey, hi Cypress !

djh

Marie-Rose - 4-17-2009 at 08:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bill erhardt
I met a couple this week who have a unit at Loreto Bay. The first LB property owners I have met in the six years I have lived in Loreto. They have a boat that they leave in Loreto at the home of their Mexican skipper because at Loreto Bay there is no parking for a car, much less a boat. The appeal of Property ownership down there, even without the grossly inflated cost, remains a mystery to me.



Interesting... sounds like it is still appealing to that "certain cliental".
The "jumping the queue" for the water sounds similiar to what I hear is happening here with electricity and Cerritos Beach:fire:

wilderone - 4-17-2009 at 09:09 AM

Nor do they produce more energy from renewable resources than they consume; they did not pay a generous living wage to the workers; they did not build affordable housing; it remains to be seen whether the "biomass" shift - the destruction of native species replaced with introduced tropical species - will become a problem in a "sustainable" community (but certainly against any theory of draught tolerancy or favoring indigenous species); the kitchens are all electric; there is no desal plant; the Loreto Bay Foundation is broke; after six years, they finally have one swimming pool. The architecture is not spanish colonial; the "village" is not authentic. The green fees are high; the homeowner fees are high; there is no transporation other than local taxis.

I'm sure they're all thrilled with their home purchase because they really don't know any better and they have to keep telling themselves that because they'll lose thousands of dollars to walk away or even sell; it makes no sense to fly from Canada to spend a little time in one place on a beach in Mexico when you could spend so much less on other pretty beaches in Mexico and Hawaii and California; and not have to put up with all the BS that LB Village homeownership imposes. They'll rave about the sunrise or sunset - like that's the only place you'll ever see one.

Personally, to every LB homeowner, and that Ahole Butterfield, I would like to say that but for their ignorance and gimme, gimme mentality, there would be a beautiful beach there for everyone to enjoy that has been irreparably destroyed for its peace, quiet, prisintine condition and for that you are responsible. I hope when they finally let the sea in the canal, that it swamps the entire village.

Marie-Rose - 4-17-2009 at 09:54 AM

I hear you wilderone;)

I do remember sitting on that beach just prior to them roping off the properties. Lots of locals enjoying their beach. It really is sad.

Do the residents of the villages need to go into town for supplies or are there supplies there, such as groceries, bakeries, hardware etc?

MitchMan - 4-17-2009 at 01:14 PM

Hello all,
I have been fishing Loreto since 1984. I love the town, it's different than the tourist traps of Cabo, Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta, etc. and in my view, much prettier. Ever since Loreto Bay came onto the scene, I could not understand why people bought into it. Very, very overpriced from the beginning... and still is.

I have a home in Orange County California and I used to drive to Ensenada to go fishing. On the way, there were many UNFINISHED resort projects. I learned that the Mexican approach to development is to buy a big piece of great beachfront real estate for a really cheap price, establish sales offices where the liars, I mean sales people, would pass out beautiful brochures with promises and sketches of a fantastic resort, beautiful cabanas and pools, American modern condos and homes and ask for prices with a built in 300% markup over cost and ask for 30% down payment in cash up front before breaking ground. AND GA-GA EYED AMERICANS BUY THEM AND PAY DOWN PAYMENTS all the time, every time!

The real liars, I mean developers, would take the down payment money, pay themselves a great salary, pay the other liars, I mean sales people, a commission for getting the down payment money and then they would spend a little bit of the money to actually do minimal construction to buy more time to get more down payments to pay more developer salaries. The developers never ever had enough money from their own capital nor construction financing to complete the project or even the initial buyers' homes. These development were nothing more than Ponzi Schemes with buyer deposits. It's obvious, it's been going on for decades in every baja town, and is still going on wherever you see a resort in progress.

In the USA, developers get construction financing for the whole project in advance of ground breaking and the lenders get evidence of construction costs incurred before releasing loan funds to the developer. Developers are required to hold sales deposits in trust accounts to protect the buyers. NOT ROCKET SCIENCE, people. If a Mexican developer doesn't do business like this, why buy from them?

As I would drive from TJ to Ensenada, I would see many of these unfinished developments. Alot of evidence of the failed projects are all over the place. I mean, DUH! Why can't American buyers get it?

I have learned something in my experience in Mexico: AVOID PAYING FOR THINGS IN ADVANCE! I have followed this rule after being burned by a Mexican attorney and an architect and I have since kept myself whole and happy in Mexico.

[Edited on 4-17-2009 by MitchMan]

flyfishinPam - 4-17-2009 at 02:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MitchMan
Hello all,
I have been fishing Loreto since 1984. I love the town, it's different than the tourist traps of Cabo, Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta, etc. and in my view, much prettier.


THIS is the tourist that Loreto has managed to attract for over 50 years and the fact that this town is rustic and real Mexico and naturally beautiful is what keep people coming back. Tourists come here to get away from the Cabo atmosphere and get back to nature. They do not come here for the party scene, to sun their buns and shop like they do in Cabo, Acapulco and Cancun. FONATUR just does not get this either do the developers.
Quote:
Originally posted by MitchMan
The real liars, I mean developers, would take the down payment money, pay themselves a great salary, pay the other liars, I mean sales people, a commission for getting the down payment money and then they would spend a little bit of the money to actually do minimal construction to buy more time to get more down payments to pay more developer salaries. The developers never ever had enough money from their own capital nor construction financing to complete the project or even the initial buyers' homes. These development were nothing more than Ponzi Schemes with buyer deposits. It's obvious, it's been going on for decades in every baja town, and is still going on wherever you see a resort in progress.


WOW sounds like you may be an insider and have just outlined LB's business plan. :lol:
This is the way the new megaresorts are doing business now, if they can manage to do business....
and now we have the timeshare thing happening here too. But if there aren't people stupid enough to buy into it, they'll go away. I can hope anyway. Are there people still stupid enough to buy into these timeshares and glorified failed projects? Given the Trump fiasco and the crapola at LB I would be damned surprised if any of these new projects will make it here within the next 30 years. bajanomad helps pass the word to those who may be considering.
Quote:
Why can't American buyers get it?


GREED
the feeling that if they pass up the offer they will "miss out"
believing what others tell them
selectively believing information that's presented even from a source that has an ulterior motive of selling
naivete
stupidity
hastiness

For years I have joked with friends here that folks step off the plane, take one whiff of our hot humid air, then lose 50 IQ points. some people don't have enough IQ points to spare 50. When this real estate boom started the IQ loss became even greater, it became more like a 100 point loss.

English speaking foreign folks literally believed and trusted any adult who spoke English for a span of a couple of years here (maybe to some extent now). There's lots of folks who have come here from the "outside" to take advantage of the boomtown atmosphere that Loreto has somewhat taken on due to the RE boom. WATCH OUT for these guys. Usually they're young attractive men who speak good English and talk smooth. Cuidado.

Now people are being much more careful with their spending and that is good.

CaboRon - 4-17-2009 at 08:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MitchMan[

I have learned something in my experience in Mexico: AVOID PAYING FOR THINGS IN ADVANCE! I have followed this rule after being burned by a Mexican attorney and an architect and I have since kept myself whole and happy in Mexico.

[Edited on 4-17-2009 by MitchMan]


Sage advice MitchMan,

Welcome to the forum.

CaboRon

fishingmako - 4-20-2009 at 04:32 PM

I hope they don't ruin LORETO with all of these developments? I will tell you, when I use to travel South many years ago, LORETO was one place I just did not like, I believe it is because there was nothing there, I mean nothing The infrastructure was all in place, but nothing there, there were paved roads, light structures for road lighting, pad scraped to handle large aircraft, JETS etc. But it is a place I said I would never go back to, I would just pass by, when I went back, well it made a liar out of me because two months ago I traveled all the way to CABO and back, and I due have to say it was a real treat to see something I did not like at one time, I will be real honest, it is now probably my most favorite place, what they have done to this town is absolutely unreal.
also thank you so much Pam for making that phone call to the San Franciscan for me to get my reservation.

David K - 4-20-2009 at 05:18 PM

Loreto is different... it is a shame it has changed as much as it has from the days when Ed Tabor's Flying Sportsman Lodge was the only deal in town!

I hope Loreto is always 'different' than Cabo, as Fishingmako says!

[Edited on 4-21-2009 by David K]

Bajahowodd - 4-20-2009 at 11:23 PM

Shsssh! However you may feel about changes in Loreto, fact is that despite the Fonatur investment, it is still way back in the last century as far as development goes. Try to keep a low profile. Tell everyone the place sucks big time. Horrid weather. Nasty locals. No reasonable justification to visit. Don't fly here. Keep driving past on your journey.

wilderone - 4-21-2009 at 08:50 AM

" there was nothing there, I mean nothing"

I don't know how you can say something like this about Loreto. You mean Mulege, San Vicente, Santa Rosalia, San Quintin, Guerrero Negro, San Ignacio, etc., etc., were, in comparison, vibrant hubs of activity and entertainment? Loreto has always been a charming, low key Baja CA town, with sportfishing, snorkling on the islands, a notable mission, and the real deal as far as Baja CA goes. In recent years, the streets and sidewalks have been improved and the malecon has changed - but for the better? That's a matter of opinion, since I love a dusty dirt road lined with fish taco stands. Timeshares? Construction workers sleeping on the beach? That's the type of change that Loreto can do without. The people of Loreto have been educated with the Loreto Bay fiasco and the ills it brought to town, and I don't think they will stand for more of the same.

Education

tehag - 4-21-2009 at 09:32 AM

Quote: "The people of Loreto have been educated with the Loreto Bay fiasco and the ills it brought to town, and I don't think they will stand for more of the same."

Nice thought; a bit dreamy, I think.

MitchMan - 4-21-2009 at 09:42 AM

Loreto!
The best thing I can say about Loreto in one sentence is "Loreto doesn't have any night life to speak of". This is the attribute that, to me, is an indicator of its "non-touristiness". If Loreto ever becomes a tourist trap for me, I will never return there. I have visited Puerto Vallarta for many years and never felt it was touristy. Four years ago, I visited, and it had become too touristy. I will never go there again.

Cabo, Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta, Acapulco, they all "feature" their night life. You can't go by a restaurant without someone yelling at you to "come into this restaurant, come into this restaurant". Also, sales people will be yelling at you as you walk down a street, "Please buy a time share" or "please buy a condo in this project". Also, you can't pass a cantina at night without seeing "20 somethings" yelling and pounding down beers and shots of tequila like the world was going to end the next morning. That's not Mexico, that's not culture.

Loreto is truly unique because of its tranquility and small town-ness. The other thing that really sets Loreto apart is the fact that it has a beautiful island just six miles off the beach, Isla Carmen. Also, the low lying mountain ranges that surround Loreto on three sides. Think about it. Where in the Baja can you go for that beautiful setting? And, there aren't that many places in the world with those specific attributes. AND IT'S DRIVABLE FROM SAN DIEGO, and it has an international airport 2 miles away, and it's close to Mulege, and it has magnificent fishing and diving, and it has the oldest Mission.

We do have one thing to thank Loreto Bay for. Loreot Bay, with its financial failure and its hype of their overpriced condos and hence its related unrealistic effect on raising local land and real estate prices to illogical and unsupportably high prices (not to mention taking up all the local construction talent and thereby making building your own house too expensive and/or not possible), has kept broad successful settlement and therefore touristy restaurants and succesful resort development down to a minimum. For that unintended result, I say, tongue in cheek, "thank you, Loreto Bay".

[Edited on 4-21-2009 by MitchMan]

bajamikey - 4-21-2009 at 09:43 AM

what about ensenada blanca ? yes south of loreto. but still loreto to me

gnukid - 4-21-2009 at 11:43 AM

In years ahead Loreto will be cut out as the road is paved along the pacific making the east cape once again far off the path of tourists, it will be two hours of driving or more to get to Loreto from the Main Highway on the Pacific and there will be many new developments with fantastic claims. For Loreto Bay it's over, there is no more money, no extra cash to solve their unfinished business or big revenue opportunities on the course either, the course is not part of the HO profits. The project will be forever a poorly executed business without opportunity, with a flawed design mess which hopefully serve as a warning of what to watch out for in future developmental claims. LB is Greenwashing at its finest example.

On the other hand if you recall the torment caused to many of us by the project you can imagine how upset we will will be by the scars they are laying down the pacific with D9 tractors for only one purpose, highly promotional tourism development along a windy rough remote coast. For most of us, we have taken the look the other way approach because when you see the destruction of pristine remote lands for no purpose other than big development quick profits, the deal-making nonsense which makes these coastal plots available for mere pesos to connected wealth, the whole thing is overwhelmingly stupid. So we look at the ocean or the other way and let these things pass as they will forever it seems. The only solace is knowing that many will fail for their lack of efficiency in design and execution. What kind of solace is that?

vandenberg - 4-21-2009 at 11:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MitchMan



Loreto is truly unique because of its tranquility and small town-ness. The other thing that really sets Loreto apart is the fact that it has a beautiful island just six miles off the beach, Isla Carmen. Also, the low lying mountain ranges that surround Loreto on three sides. Think about it. Where in the Baja can you go for that beautiful setting? And, there aren't that many places in the world with those specific attributes. AND IT'S DRIVABLE FROM SAN DIEGO, and it has an international airport 2 miles away, and it's close to Mulege, and it has magnificent fishing and diving, and it has the oldest Mission.
[Edited on 4-21-2009 by MitchMan]


Mitchman will you quit singing Loreto's praises.
We got enough Jokels as it is.



wilderone - 4-21-2009 at 11:53 AM

"For most of us, we have taken the look the other way approach"

SHAME ON YOU - with what you are able to do, and yet you do nothing, you are part of the problem.

Paula - 4-21-2009 at 01:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wilderone
"For most of us, we have taken the look the other way approach"

SHAME ON YOU - with what you are able to do, and yet you do nothing, you are part of the problem.



Wilderone, is this directed specifically to gnukid? Or do you know of something we can all do to stop these developments? If so, please advise us!

wilderone - 4-21-2009 at 01:58 PM

I believe Gnukid lives in La Paz - not the USA, so he's "in country" and speaks Spanish for starters. Like most citizens who want something done by their muncipal and federal governments, they can write to the many Mexican environmental entities; present their opinions at local organizations and band together to take some action. Just speaking out and calling attention to the detrimental effects to their communities may spur some action by the local mayor. If there are true violations of law, then they shouldn't be ignored when brought to the attention - incessantly - to the entity who should enforce the law. Call on ProPeninsula, ICF, Sierra Club, Friends of Loreto, Eco Alianza, Nature Conservancy, Oceans Foundations (yeh - you- Spalding) - any organization whose mission is to help protect the environment from these destructive practices, for their help. Contact organizations that purchase land for protection in perpetuity and ask how they manage to raise funds to do this (Keep Tahoe Blue; Tahoe Conservancy - there must be hundreds.) There was a demonstration opposing the San Jose marina. I believe there were some modifications made to preserve more of the estuary and do more studies on the saltwater intrusion issue because of the public outcry. Demand muncipal planning so that development is balanced and sensible, leaving ample open space and adequate provisions for waste. Todos Santos should be able to advise in this regard, as they have had several public meetings to discuss their city planning. Post online; send photos to newspapers. Educating outsiders (potential buyers and guests) about the egregious and needless environmental destruction may keep them away - many people do take the moral high ground when they're made aware. Magazines like Baja Life - if they've got the cajones to publish the truth (may lose some advertising revenue - but what's more important??) - should publish what is really going on. There is plenty of information out there - but it's scattered, so people don't realize the Big Picture. Pressure on Marriott, Villa Group, etc. - do it right or we'll boycott. There have been conferences In Mexico about sustainable development - picket at these conferences - it's all Bullsh_ if it's just talk and the coastal development continues unabated. Are all these individual people just talking, talking, talking at conferences to get a free vacation or are they going to SHOW UP and put their money where their mouth is. You can find all kinds of conferences of architects, water management people, sustainable living, etc., blah, blah - tell them to get their burros to Baja CA and change things. I get emails from League of Conservation Voters almost weekly about various environmental issues. They always have a letter pre-addressed to some Congressman - all I have to do is edit the letter or add my comments and it can be sent within that email. In that way, our voice is heard - one by one - but heard. If you don't speak out - how will anyone be able to listen? How will anything change? And I've found too, that once you start doing something, it steamrolls. I made a bunch of posters (8x11 color copies) showing cows wallowing and pooping in the middle of a streambed where they were outside of their alloted public grazing lands, and we taped them on storefront windows in order to publicize the problem and get the cattle grazing stopped. That was part of a grassroots campaign to stop the grazing. You'll think of something - just do it.

wilderone - 4-21-2009 at 02:44 PM

Facts, names, organizations, academics, methods - so much information

http://mikesnotes.wordpress.com/2009/03/31/ceres-conference-...

http://www.conferencealerts.com/sustain.htm

http://www.wessex.ac.uk/10-conferences/sustainable-tourism-2...

http://www.yorku.ca/dkproj/string/rohr/articles.htm

http://www.ceakumal.org/pew_oceans_commission_-_press_confer...

http://mexidata.info/id2035.html

http://www.dgukenvis.nic.in/upevents.htm

http://convention2.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_c...

http://www.gulfbase.org/event/view.php?eid=6asgccdsc

http://www.avina.net/web/siteavina.nsf/SeccionesAlleng/0FFC1...

http://web.dcp.ufl.edu/kuenstle/shoreline0905.pdf

http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3375/0885-8608(2006)26%5B117:CLFBTD%5D2.0.CO%3B2

wilderone - 4-22-2009 at 08:41 AM

And this just in - the LB fiasco has lead to 37 homes being confiscated because of the failure to pay layed off employees their wages per law. Gringo developers who don't know Mexican law or think they can get away with flouting the law, will eventually become accountable:

http://www.radarpolitico.com/2009/03/23/embargan-37-casas-a-...

Wouldn't it be nice if the employees were deeded the units in lieu of pay? LB would start to become an authentic Mexican town as promised.

David K - 4-22-2009 at 09:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by wilderone
And this just in - the LB fiasco has lead to 37 homes being confiscated because of the failure to pay layed off employees their wages per law. Gringo developers who don't know Mexican law or think they can get away with flouting the law, will eventually become accountable:

http://www.radarpolitico.com/2009/03/23/embargan-37-casas-a-...

Wouldn't it be nice if the employees were deeded the units in lieu of pay? LB would start to become an authentic Mexican town as promised.


By "Gringo" you mean foreign and not necessarily American, right? I recall Loreto Bay was a Canadian owned development, verdad?

wilderone - 4-22-2009 at 09:43 AM

My understanding of the word Gringo (from Wikipedaea), and I meant to include North American, non-native Mexicans, to include Canadians:

"Gringo (feminine, gringa) is a Spanish and Portuguese word used in Latin America to generally denote people from the United States, but in some cases it is also used to denote foreign non-native speakers of Spanish (physical appearance i.e. race often plays a role), usually from northern Europe or Canada--especially English-speakers."

PS: Many on staff at LB, not from Canada, were advisors, planners, and should have known, and probably did know, what they should be doing and the repurcussions of halting construction and laying off workers. The early "team" - Grogan, Jack Heller, Jim Ruzicka were not from Canada. And they even had the Hon. Al Zapanta as an advisor, the CEO of the US-Mex Chamber of Commerce. And Alfonso Garcia Cacho, a lawyer, leading the "Mexico consultancy team with the Fed. Govt and FONATUR" ; and Jack Heller, an advisor re legal and tax matters. What was he getting paid to do? Were all these people were incompetent or not actually acting in these capacities? Evidently, the choice to walk away and put the LB project and their homes in jeopardy was a purposeful choice, and given that the project was poorly managed and so much money squandered, it does raise some questions about the competency and intentions of the "team".

gnukid - 4-22-2009 at 09:58 AM

If the policy of the current government is to sell land to certain constituents for a few pesos per meter and approve absurd developments like LB and Mogote for example its unlikely that civilian efforts will halt their deals.

Though being informed, communicating and organizing can help its not likely that it will stop the political pilaging of the land that is occurring at a fast pace in Baja.

My current approach is to inform potential buyers to use common sense and perhaps we can discourage the buyers from investing in absurd projects.

For example, in Baja you need a garage! If you live want to be on the coast consider the wind and waves, can you live in the face of high winds and sand blasting? Can you take the heat? Can you access the ocean or are there dangerous currents and winds which restrict your access? All of these things tend to make some locations more suitable than others.

It seems that these large developments are more likely to encounter problems than small developments. For example, continued construction over time which is costly and difficult to sustain not to mention construction noise is unpleasant when it continues for years on end.

From what we have seen over the years investing in large condo or townhouse development in Mexico is not a great investment whereas living remotely off the grid is more and more becoming an excellent option and a sustainable way to live and retire. Its quiet and pleasant, affordable and less aggravation.

I often try to learn from Mexicans who are succeeding and learn how they live conservatively, how they make use of the resources they have and use the plants that exist for food and homeopathic care. thankfully I have had the chance this year to see, visit and live on many remote ranchitos and see how people build their own huertas and live very very well self-sustained.

If the connection between these heavily promoted huge developments and the poorly educated foreign buyer is broken then the nonsense developments will come to an end because buyers will be looking at other more sustainable options and the development money will be gone. Options include renting, camping, building your own place, long term rentals, buying a traditional or new single home.

I think the more that we talk about what does work and what doesn't work well and share our experiences the more we can indirectly affect development. There are so many homes in Baja that are empty and so options for a simple home and simple palapa on the terrace it hardly make sense to buy a 500k condo in an unfinished and poorly managed development?

Caveat: for those that are happy living in LB and Magote great! just pointing out other possibilities.

tripledigitken - 4-22-2009 at 10:11 AM

Gnukid,

Excellent post. I couldn't agree with you more. All the folks I know that live and have property in Baja are happy with their homes and their life there.

The one commonality................they don't live in huge developments, but single homes built one at a time, bought from a local not a corporation.

Ken

wilderone - 4-22-2009 at 10:21 AM

Yes, gnukid, you're on the right track - educate the foreign buyer as to alternatives. Could you post about what you've learned from these remote ranchitos? I have always admired their lifestyle - even children are so self-sufficient and know how to butcher a goat, herd cattle, etc.

gnukid - 4-22-2009 at 05:31 PM

A bit off topic but to answer your question, in the ranchos everything is considered valuable, all organic material is composted in a composting table seeded with red runner worms, the compost is made up of goat manure or any manure and organics and is ready in about 30-60 days they call worm castings.

Scrap wood and found wood can be used to make furniture, chairs tables, or for firewood. Found wood are among the great treasures of Baja. Scrap wood is very valuable and some ranches survive collecting cardon and mesquite wood only. Stones are also very valuable, you can build homes, walls, roads etc... some ranches survive collecting and selling stones! Stones are among Baja fine resources and many locations exist to collect stone.

Trees are very valuable, as are seeds of local native trees such as orange, lime, mango, palms etc... So planting a tree is an important task. IF you plant a tree and care for it in a few years it will produce and you canuse the produce or sell it, 5 year old palms are worth 3000 pesos.

To have greater success one should choose a place low level or in the path of water, many successful huertas exist in surprising low points. In and near arroyos. Whenever you see a palm you know you have water nearby. There is water all over Baja pouring out of the ground into oasises.

The garden is seeded in a traditional sloped style with water entering and leaving through a canal. They typically use a two shovel length dig to put organic material and hay in the soil below the canal and leave mounds between for the seeded beds. The seeding is done in a complimentary manner with items like lechuga, cale, mustard, beans etc together so when you harvest you only bend down in one spot to harvest the whole meal.

They often drink tea of canela and cilantro with miel and azucar or cafe which is terrific.

There are fresh eggs daily and the eggs are never refrigerated. Most hen houses have one gallo in addition to the gallenas. They say it helps them lay eggs more reliably but also you should have a male in order to raise more chicks.

Goats are very helpful for a variety of reasons from clean-up to cheese. Cows are nice to have but also a burden and a risk, Horses are needed for just about everything and they are great friends.

I found ranches in Santa Maria with Orange trees that are 70 years old and producing nicely. In La Purisima they have many orange groves and tons of veggies. In San Juanico there is an organic farming movement and many many people have lechuga and veggies in beds covered with a light material which is weighted with bamboo on the ends to keep them on the ground and cut out snails and bugs.

The ranchers enjoy the things they have and they enjoy sharing them exactly as you would like them so personal taste is a common subject, Te gusta? Mucho? Poquito? Como? Que tanto sal? Mucho? Poquito? Children are allowed to do whatever they want as long as they help. Most families live in common quarters with many people in the same room. There is a lot of work to do so everyone has to choose a basic area to work in and do it, laundry, harvest, tire repair, cooking, gardening, collecting wood or stone etc... Its hard work that starts early but at slow and steady pace and in general the work day ends at about 3-4pm.



















[Edited on 4-23-2009 by gnukid]

Paula - 4-22-2009 at 08:05 PM

Nice pictures, Gnukid, especially the oranges. And interesting info about composting and using what's at hand. I don't see it as being off the subject of this thread, but as counterpoint to the wastefulness and destruction of LB and other beach developments.

wilderone - 4-23-2009 at 08:33 AM

Now, I'm sorry, this is a hijack - but reading gnukid's post gave me an idea: small groups touring 3-4 ranchos, helping out, donating needed supplies (maybe a tree, seeds, fertilizer, hose), camping nearby, for a fee. Say, $200 for 5 days - $50 for each rancho. A unique experience for sure. I'd do it.

and "tea of canela and cilantro with miel?" hmmmm - I'll try that.
thanks so much for your wonderful post.

Udo - 4-23-2009 at 09:12 AM

When my friends ask about Loreto, I tell them to skip it and head to Mulege, San Ignacio, or Santa Rosalia. An then there is Bahia Asuncion...our secret...especially with Shari & Juan there. Now, there is Mexico's best...unless you count Osprey's house as a destination!