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Marie-Rose
Senior Nomad
Posts: 894
Registered: 10-2-2003
Location: Victoria, B.C. and Todos Santos
Member Is Offline
Mood: Worried...
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Villages of Loreto Bay
In 2003 I posted re: the "upcoming development" of Villages of Loreto Bay and I am not sure if any post ever got more hits but I remember that it was
very active!!
After reading a post from FlyfishingPam... whom I always open... it just got me thinking about how the Villages were progressing.
I would be interested in knowing if there are any owners who are Nomads, and if they are happy with their investment and still enjoying visiting their
homes/condos... whatever. Read about some financial concerns but more interested in whether people who bought there (or anybody who knows anyone who
bought/lives there) are happy to spend their time in "the villages".
Just curious...
[Edited on 2009-4-17 by Marie-Rose]
Remember, when in Mexico, yes may be no and no may be
maybe!
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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I would be surprised if any Loreto Bay Homeowners will respond to this. Let's just say things there are not going as planned. And they have yet to
"create more water than they consume", "tread lightly" or even come close to being "sustainable".
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
Member Is Offline
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Sounded real good at the time, eh?
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Sounded real good at the time, eh? |
It was a lie from the beginning .....
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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No parking, no sewage, no water! No way!
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bill erhardt
Super Nomad
Posts: 1376
Registered: 4-2-2005
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
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I met a couple this week who have a unit at Loreto Bay. The first LB property owners I have met in the six years I have lived in Loreto. They have a
boat that they leave in Loreto at the home of their Mexican skipper because at Loreto Bay there is no parking for a car, much less a boat. The appeal
of Property ownership down there, even without the grossly inflated cost, remains a mystery to me.
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djh
Senior Nomad
Posts: 936
Registered: 1-2-2005
Location: Earth mostly. Loreto, N. ID, Big Island
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mellow fellow, plays a yellow cello...
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
No parking, no sewage, no water! No way! |
Oh yeah, they have water..... They managed to ""cut in line" right in front of the town of Loreto in the supply line.... I don't know what meddling
created this sweetheart deal, but I have a hunch !
Unbelieveable..... when a student in MY school cuts, I send him to the back of the line and he / she looses recesses for the day. LB, however,
seems to have actually been rewarded for their shameless profiteering at the expense of others.
BTW: Hey, hi Cypress !
djh
Its all just stuff and some numbers.
A day spent sailing isn\'t deducted from one\'s life.
Peace, Love, and Music
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Marie-Rose
Senior Nomad
Posts: 894
Registered: 10-2-2003
Location: Victoria, B.C. and Todos Santos
Member Is Offline
Mood: Worried...
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bill erhardt
I met a couple this week who have a unit at Loreto Bay. The first LB property owners I have met in the six years I have lived in Loreto. They have a
boat that they leave in Loreto at the home of their Mexican skipper because at Loreto Bay there is no parking for a car, much less a boat. The appeal
of Property ownership down there, even without the grossly inflated cost, remains a mystery to me. |
Interesting... sounds like it is still appealing to that "certain cliental".
The "jumping the queue" for the water sounds similiar to what I hear is happening here with electricity and Cerritos Beach
Remember, when in Mexico, yes may be no and no may be
maybe!
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3881
Registered: 2-9-2004
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Nor do they produce more energy from renewable resources than they consume; they did not pay a generous living wage to the workers; they did not build
affordable housing; it remains to be seen whether the "biomass" shift - the destruction of native species replaced with introduced tropical species -
will become a problem in a "sustainable" community (but certainly against any theory of draught tolerancy or favoring indigenous species); the
kitchens are all electric; there is no desal plant; the Loreto Bay Foundation is broke; after six years, they finally have one swimming pool. The
architecture is not spanish colonial; the "village" is not authentic. The green fees are high; the homeowner fees are high; there is no transporation
other than local taxis.
I'm sure they're all thrilled with their home purchase because they really don't know any better and they have to keep telling themselves that because
they'll lose thousands of dollars to walk away or even sell; it makes no sense to fly from Canada to spend a little time in one place on a beach in
Mexico when you could spend so much less on other pretty beaches in Mexico and Hawaii and California; and not have to put up with all the BS that LB
Village homeownership imposes. They'll rave about the sunrise or sunset - like that's the only place you'll ever see one.
Personally, to every LB homeowner, and that Ahole Butterfield, I would like to say that but for their ignorance and gimme, gimme mentality, there
would be a beautiful beach there for everyone to enjoy that has been irreparably destroyed for its peace, quiet, prisintine condition and for that you
are responsible. I hope when they finally let the sea in the canal, that it swamps the entire village.
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Marie-Rose
Senior Nomad
Posts: 894
Registered: 10-2-2003
Location: Victoria, B.C. and Todos Santos
Member Is Offline
Mood: Worried...
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I hear you wilderone
I do remember sitting on that beach just prior to them roping off the properties. Lots of locals enjoying their beach. It really is sad.
Do the residents of the villages need to go into town for supplies or are there supplies there, such as groceries, bakeries, hardware etc?
Remember, when in Mexico, yes may be no and no may be
maybe!
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
Member Is Offline
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Hello all,
I have been fishing Loreto since 1984. I love the town, it's different than the tourist traps of Cabo, Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta, etc. and in my
view, much prettier. Ever since Loreto Bay came onto the scene, I could not understand why people bought into it. Very, very overpriced from the
beginning... and still is.
I have a home in Orange County California and I used to drive to Ensenada to go fishing. On the way, there were many UNFINISHED resort projects. I
learned that the Mexican approach to development is to buy a big piece of great beachfront real estate for a really cheap price, establish sales
offices where the liars, I mean sales people, would pass out beautiful brochures with promises and sketches of a fantastic resort, beautiful cabanas
and pools, American modern condos and homes and ask for prices with a built in 300% markup over cost and ask for 30% down payment in cash up front
before breaking ground. AND GA-GA EYED AMERICANS BUY THEM AND PAY DOWN PAYMENTS all the time, every time!
The real liars, I mean developers, would take the down payment money, pay themselves a great salary, pay the other liars, I mean sales people, a
commission for getting the down payment money and then they would spend a little bit of the money to actually do minimal construction to buy more time
to get more down payments to pay more developer salaries. The developers never ever had enough money from their own capital nor construction
financing to complete the project or even the initial buyers' homes. These development were nothing more than Ponzi Schemes with buyer deposits.
It's obvious, it's been going on for decades in every baja town, and is still going on wherever you see a resort in progress.
In the USA, developers get construction financing for the whole project in advance of ground breaking and the lenders get evidence of construction
costs incurred before releasing loan funds to the developer. Developers are required to hold sales deposits in trust accounts to protect the buyers.
NOT ROCKET SCIENCE, people. If a Mexican developer doesn't do business like this, why buy from them?
As I would drive from TJ to Ensenada, I would see many of these unfinished developments. Alot of evidence of the failed projects are all over the
place. I mean, DUH! Why can't American buyers get it?
I have learned something in my experience in Mexico: AVOID PAYING FOR THINGS IN ADVANCE! I have followed this rule after being burned by a Mexican
attorney and an architect and I have since kept myself whole and happy in Mexico.
[Edited on 4-17-2009 by MitchMan]
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
Hello all,
I have been fishing Loreto since 1984. I love the town, it's different than the tourist traps of Cabo, Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta, etc. and in my
view, much prettier. |
THIS is the tourist that Loreto has managed to attract for over 50 years and the fact that this town is rustic and real Mexico and
naturally beautiful is what keep people coming back. Tourists come here to get away from the Cabo atmosphere and get back to nature. They do not
come here for the party scene, to sun their buns and shop like they do in Cabo, Acapulco and Cancun. FONATUR just does not get this either do the
developers.
| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
The real liars, I mean developers, would take the down payment money, pay themselves a great salary, pay the other liars, I mean sales people, a
commission for getting the down payment money and then they would spend a little bit of the money to actually do minimal construction to buy more time
to get more down payments to pay more developer salaries. The developers never ever had enough money from their own capital nor construction
financing to complete the project or even the initial buyers' homes. These development were nothing more than Ponzi Schemes with buyer deposits.
It's obvious, it's been going on for decades in every baja town, and is still going on wherever you see a resort in progress.
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WOW sounds like you may be an insider and have just outlined LB's business plan. 
This is the way the new megaresorts are doing business now, if they can manage to do business....
and now we have the timeshare thing happening here too. But if there aren't people stupid enough to buy into it, they'll go away. I can hope anyway.
Are there people still stupid enough to buy into these timeshares and glorified failed projects? Given the Trump fiasco and the crapola at LB I
would be damned surprised if any of these new projects will make it here within the next 30 years. bajanomad helps pass the word to those who may be
considering.
| Quote: | | Why can't American buyers get it? |
GREED
the feeling that if they pass up the offer they will "miss out"
believing what others tell them
selectively believing information that's presented even from a source that has an ulterior motive of selling
naivete
stupidity
hastiness
For years I have joked with friends here that folks step off the plane, take one whiff of our hot humid air, then lose 50 IQ points. some people
don't have enough IQ points to spare 50. When this real estate boom started the IQ loss became even greater, it became more like a 100 point loss.
English speaking foreign folks literally believed and trusted any adult who spoke English for a span of a couple of years here (maybe to some extent
now). There's lots of folks who have come here from the "outside" to take advantage of the boomtown atmosphere that Loreto has somewhat taken on due
to the RE boom. WATCH OUT for these guys. Usually they're young attractive men who speak good English and talk smooth. Cuidado.
Now people are being much more careful with their spending and that is good.
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan[
I have learned something in my experience in Mexico: AVOID PAYING FOR THINGS IN ADVANCE! I have followed this rule after being burned by a Mexican
attorney and an architect and I have since kept myself whole and happy in Mexico.
[Edited on 4-17-2009 by MitchMan] |
Sage advice MitchMan,
Welcome to the forum.
CaboRon
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fishingmako
Nomad
Posts: 259
Registered: 10-10-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: always up
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I hope they don't ruin LORETO with all of these developments? I will tell you, when I use to travel South many years ago, LORETO was one place I just
did not like, I believe it is because there was nothing there, I mean nothing The infrastructure was all in place, but nothing there, there were paved
roads, light structures for road lighting, pad scraped to handle large aircraft, JETS etc. But it is a place I said I would never go back to, I would
just pass by, when I went back, well it made a liar out of me because two months ago I traveled all the way to CABO and back, and I due have to say it
was a real treat to see something I did not like at one time, I will be real honest, it is now probably my most favorite place, what they have done to
this town is absolutely unreal.
also thank you so much Pam for making that phone call to the San Franciscan for me to get my reservation.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65295
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Loreto is different... it is a shame it has changed as much as it has from the days when Ed Tabor's Flying Sportsman Lodge was the only deal in town!
I hope Loreto is always 'different' than Cabo, as Fishingmako says!
[Edited on 4-21-2009 by David K]
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
Member Is Offline
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Shsssh! However you may feel about changes in Loreto, fact is that despite the Fonatur investment, it is still way back in the last century as far as
development goes. Try to keep a low profile. Tell everyone the place sucks big time. Horrid weather. Nasty locals. No reasonable justification to
visit. Don't fly here. Keep driving past on your journey.
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3881
Registered: 2-9-2004
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" there was nothing there, I mean nothing"
I don't know how you can say something like this about Loreto. You mean Mulege, San Vicente, Santa Rosalia, San Quintin, Guerrero Negro, San Ignacio,
etc., etc., were, in comparison, vibrant hubs of activity and entertainment? Loreto has always been a charming, low key Baja CA town, with
sportfishing, snorkling on the islands, a notable mission, and the real deal as far as Baja CA goes. In recent years, the streets and sidewalks have
been improved and the malecon has changed - but for the better? That's a matter of opinion, since I love a dusty dirt road lined with fish taco
stands. Timeshares? Construction workers sleeping on the beach? That's the type of change that Loreto can do without. The people of Loreto have
been educated with the Loreto Bay fiasco and the ills it brought to town, and I don't think they will stand for more of the same.
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tehag
Super Nomad
Posts: 1248
Registered: 1-8-2005
Member Is Offline
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Education
Quote: "The people of Loreto have been educated with the Loreto Bay fiasco and the ills it brought to town, and I don't think they will stand for more
of the same."
Nice thought; a bit dreamy, I think.
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
Member Is Offline
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Loreto!
The best thing I can say about Loreto in one sentence is "Loreto doesn't have any night life to speak of". This is the attribute that, to me, is an
indicator of its "non-touristiness". If Loreto ever becomes a tourist trap for me, I will never return there. I have visited Puerto Vallarta for
many years and never felt it was touristy. Four years ago, I visited, and it had become too touristy. I will never go there again.
Cabo, Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta, Acapulco, they all "feature" their night life. You can't go by a restaurant without someone yelling at you to "come
into this restaurant, come into this restaurant". Also, sales people will be yelling at you as you walk down a street, "Please buy a time share" or
"please buy a condo in this project". Also, you can't pass a cantina at night without seeing "20 somethings" yelling and pounding down beers and
shots of tequila like the world was going to end the next morning. That's not Mexico, that's not culture.
Loreto is truly unique because of its tranquility and small town-ness. The other thing that really sets Loreto apart is the fact that it has a
beautiful island just six miles off the beach, Isla Carmen. Also, the low lying mountain ranges that surround Loreto on three sides. Think about it.
Where in the Baja can you go for that beautiful setting? And, there aren't that many places in the world with those specific attributes. AND IT'S
DRIVABLE FROM SAN DIEGO, and it has an international airport 2 miles away, and it's close to Mulege, and it has magnificent fishing and diving, and it
has the oldest Mission.
We do have one thing to thank Loreto Bay for. Loreot Bay, with its financial failure and its hype of their overpriced condos and hence its related
unrealistic effect on raising local land and real estate prices to illogical and unsupportably high prices (not to mention taking up all the local
construction talent and thereby making building your own house too expensive and/or not possible), has kept broad successful settlement and therefore
touristy restaurants and succesful resort development down to a minimum. For that unintended result, I say, tongue in cheek, "thank you, Loreto Bay".
[Edited on 4-21-2009 by MitchMan]
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bajamikey
Nomad
Posts: 106
Registered: 4-6-2008
Location: Newport Beach,CA/San Josa Del Cabo
Member Is Offline
Mood: baja with a cold pacifico
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what about ensenada blanca ? yes south of loreto. but still loreto to me
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