BajaNomad - Are we part of the solution?

Are we part of the solution?

DENNIS - 4-19-2009 at 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
Question: do you think these activities have helped the lot of the native Bajacalifornianos?

Strange question, Larry. I think you/we have to define what "helped" means.

Hmmm, provocative...

Mulegena - 4-19-2009 at 09:03 PM

The title of this thread "Are we part of the solution" implies a given,
broadly held belief in the existence of an inherent problem.

Walk lightly on the earth with respect to all its creatures.

DENNIS - 4-19-2009 at 09:23 PM

Where is President Madison when the tough questions are asked. Manifest Destiny went from east to west and rather than drown in the Pacific, turned south.
We are an enterprising, hungry people who went into Baja at a time when there were few to resist. I criss-crossed the upper peninsula in the fifties and there was nobody to "help" or even say hello to at that time. Relative to today, it was a barren land.
I believe most of the people who Larry refers to are as new to the area as most who would be credited for bringing an influence. In the early days, there was nobody to influence. It's a peninsula of immigrants.

Still a difficult question which I will ponder throughout the night.

longlegsinlapaz - 4-19-2009 at 09:27 PM

Thought provoking question Lencho....off the top of my head, I can tell you that there are 3 local builders & a small army of workers who'd have had a lot less food on their table if I hadn't moved here! :yes:

dtbushpilot - 4-19-2009 at 09:31 PM

My first reaction would be to say yes......I think.......what was the question again?........I'll be back in a few minutes with a beer and popcorn....please carry on....dt

Are you trying to pick on DK?.....not sure, just asking.....

[Edited on 4-20-2009 by dtbushpilot]

There's a PROBLEM ?

MrBillM - 4-19-2009 at 09:58 PM

I've done MY part for Baja by spending a LOT of money there for 35 years or so without being a burden on anyone else.

That's good enough.

"I don't want to set the World on Fire.................."

Popcorn and Beer sounds good.

But, it's late and my stomach would probably rebel all night long.

Maybe a bowl of Ice Cream.

That's what happens when you get old.

BajaNuts - 4-19-2009 at 10:01 PM

and the answer is............we are the solution? The question was?????????????

sorry I didn't get all of the other threads.

"How would the BajaCalifornias be if this huge bloom of outsiders (of which we are part) had simply stayed north of the border when Highway 1
opened up?"

How would Jamaica be, how would Puerto Rico be, how would Hawaii be without the "bloom of outsiders"?

Well, first of all, you have to acknowledge that MX1 is a 2-way street. How would we NOB be if it weren't for this influx of willing workers that were transported so easily to the border by a nicely paved road? Yes, some started as illegals, but Hispanics do comprise a huge sector of the US population now. When all the south of border immigrants (and descendants of immigrants, whether legal or not) get together and vote, what do you think the outcome wil be?

are you saying that SOB is worse for American/Canadian travelers?

BajaNuts - 4-19-2009 at 10:11 PM

I think we should let this one go by the way-side.

Where would many places in North America be without the influx of Asian and European travelers? Baja is not unique in it's response to travelers. It just so happens that America and Canada are the closest other countries to travel to Mexico.

The influence of travelers (whether Europen, Asian, or North American) on a country is not unique to Baja, don't let it go there. Think globally.

I bet there are some Indonesian countries that have been significantly changed by an influx of travelers from Japan and China.

bajadock - 4-19-2009 at 10:12 PM

Just finished book, "Economic Facts and Fallacies", by Thomas Sowell. Warning to left/liberal that Sowell is conservative, inclined to agree with Milton Friedman economic format.

Book's major foundation is that "third party observers" often want to influence an economic transaction based upon their subjective approval or disapproval of an event.

Example is England's Duke of Wellington's observation on introduction of trains to transportation in 19th century London. He blamed the railroads for encouraging "the common people to move about needlessly.".

How many of us massage the Baja pensinsula as elites, sitting with our laptops clicking away on grand solutions?

dtbushpilot - 4-19-2009 at 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajadock
Just finished book, "Economic Facts and Fallacies", by Thomas Sowell. Warning to left/liberal that Sowell is conservative, inclined to agree with Milton Friedman economic format.

Book's major foundation is that "third party observers" often want to influence an economic transaction based upon their subjective approval or disapproval of an event.

Example is England's Duke of Wellington's observation on introduction of trains to transportation in 19th century London. He blamed the railroads for encouraging "the common people to move about needlessly.".

How many of us massage the Baja pensinsula as elites, sitting with our laptops clicking away on grand solutions?

Most of us?......am I right?......did I win a prize?......more popcorn on the way......dt

BajaNuts - 4-19-2009 at 10:31 PM

enjoy the popcorn.... gonna make some myself.

Baja is not unique in it's response to travelers.

It's a big world, who else has been influenced by "elete-ist" travelers?

google National Geographic Sinai peninsula, Egyptian businesses building resorts and nomads in the desert............

Packoderm - 4-19-2009 at 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
I criss-crossed the upper peninsula in the fifties and there was nobody to "help" or even say hello to at that time. Relative to today, it was a barren land.
I believe most of the people who Larry refers to are as new to the area as most who would be credited for bringing an influence. In the early days, there was nobody to influence. It's a peninsula of immigrants.

This will probably be the most ignored post of this thread.

Osprey - 4-20-2009 at 06:27 AM

Larry, I'm semi, hemi famous for dowsing spent threads. I'll do it again.

Baja’s Metal Hand Axe

When I’m fishing in Baja Sur I usually try to find time to check in with my old pal Chuy Ortiz in San Isabel. He’s one of the most successful commerciantes in the village, owns six hardware outlets that I know about and God know’s what else. He’s a busy guy but we go way back to when he was just a kid, a dispatchador, the boat honcho at one of the fishing resorts so he usually can find some time to visit, have lunch, dinner, whatever.

He was in the main store near the beach and was just heading out the door when I arrived.

“Bob, I was just leaving to go see if I could sell a tractor to a guy over by campamento. Why don’t you drive over there with me, I won’t be there long and then we can go have some lunch.”

On the way I asked him about the new hotel/golf course/marina project in San Isabel. The original ejido land along the beach had been sold four years ago and this summer would see the first real signs the project was underway; everything takes time in Mexico – the permits took forever, some infrastructure buildout had been done and finally the big diggers, earth movers and trucks began to huff and puff along the strand where the marina and hotel would be.

“Another ejido just sold another big parcel for about $15,000,000 dollars. The lucky farmers are going a little crazy with their new-found wealth. Good for me and my business. This guy we’re going to see wants a new tractor for some farmland he holds outside the parcel. Still a great market around here for albahaca, basil.” Chuy said.

We roared through the dusty main street of a little village on the mesa near Highway One and headed south down a big long hill into a fertile bajada. Houses and shacks and little ranches could be seen way back in the mesquite jungle. We pulled off to the left and made a few turns – pulled into an open gate at our destination.

We were in front of a large but modest house. There was a big red truck parked under a tree, a new ATV was just a few meters away. As we got out of Chuy’s truck and began to walk toward the house we both slowed, then stopped; awestruck. Just a few meters in front of us lay a dead dog covered in blood. The brand new truck was riddled with gunshots, all the windows shot out, one big back tire was flat. The ATV was shot all to hell.

Chuy yelled “Carlos? Carlos?” not a sound.

The front door of the house had been blown off the hinges by shotgun blasts, the frames splintered and pulverized. The little wooden stoop was covered with fresh blood. Chuy went on in so I followed him.

“Carlos? Carlos?” no Carlos.

It was not easy to see the whole room outside the sunlight filtering through the doorway and one small window to the right. The floor was spattered with fresh or drying blood. A beautiful double-door stainless steel fridge looked doubly out of place in this rustic setting as it was blown to bits by buckshot and smaller shotgun pellets. A new stove and TV got the same treatment. I stayed put while Chuy searched the rest of the place for people or bodies. Nothing. He motioned for us to get going.

We were silent until the truck was back on blacktop headed back to San Isabel.

“Are we going right to the police department? Are you gonna make a report now?”

“No Bob, no report now. Probably never.”

“But, it’s gotta be reported. All that blood……”

“News travels fast around here. In a few days everybody will know what happened. Not a good idea for either of us to be involved. The police are the ones who have the shotguns.
I’ve got a lot of things to do at the store today. I better get back. Call me in a couple of days and we can have dinner. Maybe by then I’ll know what happened and maybe I can tell you a little about it.”

The dinner never happened. I called a couple of times but Chuy was out. I had plenty of time to think about what I had seen. It was the money – that much was clear. The police were probably the shooters.

It has been 16 years now since the edijdotarios have been allowed to regularize their land. Finally the campesinos are being sought after by developers from the U.S., Mexico and Europe. They see vast opportunities all along Mexico’s coast and their arrival changes everything.

On the plane as I flew back to Houston I looked out the window at the azure waters of the sea, the ragged, pristine stretches of coastline. I could not help but think about TV specials I once enjoyed about social scientists struggling with how to handle rock age people found in Borneo, Burma and elsewhere whose isolation and primitive lifestyles kept them from changing, progressing – the very first such encounter brought up the question about metal tools. Would it be wise to give these people machetes and metal knives and handaxes? Would just these simple tools make changes in their culture which could be vastly detrimental or do we owe it to our neighbors (are we our brother’s keeper?) to help them change, advance? Do we have a duty and obligation or are we arrogant meddlers?

Perhaps in 1992, when the land reform was made final, those who signed it envisioned lush fields of corn, beans, grain spreading out across the plains of Mexico making honest profits for new-age Mexican farmers for their hard work and enterprise. Perhaps they could not see what I saw at the farmer’s house.

baitcast - 4-20-2009 at 06:45 AM

The only problems I,m aware of are current,there were no problems in the old days because the highway did not exist.

The only few who would find their way south were fishermen who are the salt of the earth and who,s amigo,s would welcome us and all would be well,without problems who needs solutions.
Rob

Pompano - 4-20-2009 at 06:52 AM

Zzzzzzzz...zz.. huh..wha...? Ah, yet another provacative question...and it used to be so nice and quiet here.

If you're leaving, please close the door....and could you take those smelly Spanish galleons with you?

David K - 4-20-2009 at 08:02 AM

Larry, you are getting some great replies here without my needing to say a thing!

If I was to respond to the problem vs. the solution question, I would say that I hope we Norteamericanos are never a problem when we visit other countries... that we only add to the Baja Californio's life.

Naturally, I do prefer to see the parts of the peninsula without any development as I love most the natural experiences there... I go to see the beaches, canyons, deserts.... to get close to God, if you will.

I was lucky to have seen the peninsula before Hwy. 1 was extended south of Colonet, or north of Constitucion... and the people were happy then, too.
However, with four wheel drive... there are still countless places where I can go and have my special times... and you good people can experience it too.

BAJA IS THE CURE FOR CIVILIZATION! :yes:

Working towards the Solution

MrBillM - 4-20-2009 at 09:26 AM

Although they're making progress in Baja, I'll know that they're REALLY getting near the solution when we have an expansive network of Arby's, Burger King, Jack-in-the-Box, KFC (or better, Popeye's) Chicken, Chili's and Coco's (for Breakfast). AND, we'll know they've reached the zenith when the food served tastes like it does North of the Border.

That would be Priceless.

Eugenio - 4-20-2009 at 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
[.

Question: do you think these activities have helped the lot of the native Bajacalifornianos?

And before you shoot from the hip in a defensive reaction, this is a kind of general question to the group of us here: what is the overall long-term effect of our presence in this socioeconomic environment? How would the BajaCalifornias be if this huge bloom of outsiders (of which we are part) had simply stayed north of the border when Highway 1 opened up?

--Larry

Like Larry says: the question is a general one.

As for me and my experience - I think that the economic part would be worse if the americans had not arrived in such large numbers. In fact the money has attracted Mexicans of all economic classes from other parts of Mexico to Baja.

But the socio part would be better without so many Americans imho. I would never consider living in a community with large numbers of Americans in Mexico. It's not that I don't like Americans ( I am one) - it's just that I don't like so many aspects of the tourist ambiance. I like being around people who work full time and don't drink/party quite so much.

But that's just my 2 cents - who the L knows how things would be...

[Edited on 4-20-2009 by Eugenio]

rpleger - 4-20-2009 at 10:49 AM

I´m not trying to solve anything...I live in Mulegé because it´s cheaper than where I came from...It´s a nice place to live...but not great enough to attract a lot of tourists...I spend money in the course of living and I suppose that is a benefit to the shop keepers and Pemex... I catch and release fish and I don´t throw paper down the toilet..

Cypress - 4-20-2009 at 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rpleger
I´m not trying to solve anything...I live in Mulegé because it´s cheaper than where I came from...It´s a nice place to live...but not great enough to attract a lot of tourists...I spend money in the course of living and I suppose that is a benefit to the shop keepers and Pemex... I catch and release fish and I don´t throw paper down the toilet..

DianaT - 4-20-2009 at 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress

Quote:

I agree---the absolute best response.
:yes:

Diane

No, but...

Dave - 4-20-2009 at 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
Are we part of the solution?

I have the solution.

Cost is five dollars.

dtbushpilot - 4-20-2009 at 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
Are we part of the solution?

I have the solution.

Cost is five dollars.

You must be referring to my kittens for sale....the solution to all your problems, only $5 each......dt

WOW...You must be psychic!

Dave - 4-20-2009 at 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
Are we part of the solution?

I have the solution.

Cost is five dollars.

You must be referring to my kittens for sale....the solution to all your problems, only $5 each......dt

Actually, part of my solution does include a kitten. Also, a quart of used 30W motor oil and a turkey feather.

Maybe we could form a business partnership?

Would you consider renting the kittens?

tripledigitken - 4-20-2009 at 02:02 PM

Have we established what the problem is, that the solution is to solve?

Ken

vandenberg - 4-20-2009 at 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
Are we part of the solution?

I have the solution.

Cost is five dollars.

You must be referring to my kittens for sale....the solution to all your problems, only $5 each......dt

Actually, part of my solution does include a kitten. Also, a quart of used 30W motor oil and a turkey feather.

Maybe we could form a business partnership?

Would you consider renting the kittens?

Sounds more Psycho to me. :biggrin:

Skipjack Joe - 4-20-2009 at 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
Are we part of the problem or solution.
--Larry

I thought Diane Trotter already answered this question.

If you think we're part of the problem than you're just plain selfish. And if you can't accept that then you should stop going to baja entirely.

DianaT - 4-20-2009 at 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
Are we part of the problem or solution.
--Larry

Please, explain---I really do not understand

Diane

DianaT - 4-20-2009 at 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
Are we part of the problem or solution.
--Larry

Since you didn't answer and explain, I would like to say a couple of things---and if I am jumping to conclusions, please say so.

Yes, I have disagreed with you and others about it is best for Baja to never change. Living there does change one's opinions---we may hate progress, but often it is best for the locals.

When I have used the word selfish, I have always included us. Yes, we would prefer that the road to BA not be paved, and all that comes with that----but most of the locals are looking forward to it, and many are our friends.

To my knowledge, I have NEVER said that anyone should stop going to Baja---Please, find where I said that---I know I did not.

I have said that IMHO it is easier for us to not want progress because we have another world to which we can return.

On this thread, I stated that I agreed with rpleger's post.

So, why the attack? We enjoyed meeting you and your son in Bahia Asuncion and offered our guest room for if you returned---

David, yes it is hot in San Diego, with that I agree, but PLEASE, keep the politics out of here.

Thanks
Diane

Sharksbaja - 4-20-2009 at 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
I think it's the heat getting to us! :yes:

What is taking Obama so long to end Global Warming??? :rolleyes:

Of course trying to fix something that you don't think is broke appears rediculous,right? :rolleyes:

Allrightythennnnnnnnnnnnnnn. :rolleyes:

David I wish you would stop hating Black people! :lol:

Paula - 4-20-2009 at 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
I think it's the heat getting to us! :yes:

What is taking Obama so long to end Global Warming??? :rolleyes:

David K, why must you insert your American politics into so many threads that are not about the US???????

I am not seeing anything dispariging towards you.

soulpatch - 4-20-2009 at 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
Are we part of the problem or solution.
--Larry

DianaT - 4-20-2009 at 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by soulpatch

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
Are we part of the problem or solution.
--Larry

Soulpatch, I don't know for sure --- but I know the statement made, if Igor is referring to me, is a total fabrication and thus, very disappointing to me.

Diane

bent-rim - 4-20-2009 at 06:50 PM

Is there a problem? I've been going to Baja annually more or less since 1997. My first visit was in 1970. Since 1997 I've noticed that the semi-trucks look alot newer and better maintained, same for Hwy 1, in 1997 there were long patches of gravel sections and asphalt that looked as though it was applied with a paint roller, now it seems better paved, although the road seems to get narrower with each repaving. BoLA has a pothole free road and 24/7 electricity. It costs a little more each trip regardless of the exchange rate, but it's still fun to burn through pesos on lobsters and margaritas. Mexico is a different country and that is what appeals to me when I visit.

woody with a view - 4-20-2009 at 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bent-rim
Is there a problem? I've been going to Baja annually more or less since 1997. My first visit was in 1970. Since 1997 I've noticed that the semi-trucks look alot newer and better maintained, same for Hwy 1, in 1997 there were long patches of gravel sections and asphalt that looked as though it was applied with a paint roller, now it seems better paved, although the road seems to get narrower with each repaving. BoLA has a pothole free road and 24/7 electricity. It costs a little more each trip regardless of the exchange rate, but it's still fun to burn through pesos on lobsters and margaritas. Mexico is a different country and that is what appeals to me when I visit.

well said! change the dates and places and i can't argue..... these are the good 'ol days all over again!!!!

Skipjack Joe - 4-20-2009 at 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter
Soulpatch, I don't know for sure --- but I know the statement made, if Igor is referring to me, is a total fabrication and thus, very disappointing to me.

Diane

The disappointment is on both sides.

You have made those same statments on at least two occasions. It's one thing to disagree with someone and support your viewpoint. It's quite another to say that person's viewpoint lacks value because he or she is selfish. And furthermore, if you don't see things my way you should just stop coming altogether. That's just a disrespect for those who don't see things your way.

I overlooked it the first time (the bicycle thread) but I'm not going to be insulted a second time.

DianaT - 4-20-2009 at 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter
Soulpatch, I don't know for sure --- but I know the statement made, if Igor is referring to me, is a total fabrication and thus, very disappointing to me.

Diane

Igor,
If you can back any of this up with quotes, please do so. IMHO, you do not like someone to disagree with you and have decided to form your own perceptions.

1. Please find where I ever said that someone should not come to Baja if they disagree with me. Please quote it

2. Please find where I ever said anyone's opinion lacked value----now when someone says that their opinion is fact, that I will dispute. Opinions are opinions and while I might disagree, I do not believe I have ever said anyone's opinion is of no value---it is simply an opinion.

3. Selfish, yes I will stand behind that one---as I said, I include myself. IMHO, many of us are selfish in wanting Baja to not change and we don't see things from the point of view of the locals. It is an area that has become clearer to me as we live there.

If you chose to feel insulted, so be it, but if you are going to write that I said that cr*p, please find the quotes. Otherwise it just falls into the realm of inuendos and your perception.

So, I will happily and publicly apoligize to you if you can back up these allegations with actual quotes.

And please, don't be so vague--yes, I and many others disagreed with you and others on the bicyle thread---that was a no win heated one----but even though I have a strong opinion about that, I do not believe I ever said, do not come.

While a disappointment, how you personally feel is of no consequence to me, but what you have thrown out are pretty strong allegations, so please back them up. I think that is only fair.

Again, if you can back your allegations up with any quotes, I will publically retract the following statement---Igor you are full of cr*p.

Diane

[Edited on 4-21-2009 by jdtrotter]

[Edited on 4-21-2009 by jdtrotter]

Skipjack Joe - 4-20-2009 at 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter

---Igor you are full of cr*p.

Diane

I rest my case.

Even here you can't make your case without resorting to insults.

In fact you have just shown that you do what you claim you don't do.

DianaT - 4-20-2009 at 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter

---Igor you are full of cr*p.

Diane

I rest my case.

Even here you can't make your case without resorting to insults.

In fact you have just shown that you do what you claim you don't do.

Igor,
It is only an insult if you can back up your statments and as I said, I will retract the statement if you can do so.

And you rest your case with no backup? Where are the quotes where I said what you accused me of saying?

BTW I read the entire bike thread and if you can find anywhere in that one where I insulted you, please post it---I read it because I really wondered where I might have insulted you.

Diane

[Edited on 4-21-2009 by jdtrotter]

Bajahowodd - 4-21-2009 at 12:13 AM

I find this thread strangely interesting in light of how history could have sorted things so differently. After the Mexican-American War what ultimately became known as the Gadsden Purchase created what we know today as the Southern border of Western New Mexico, and basically all of Arizona, South of Tucson. What is probably less known is that at the time, Santa Anna offered up a huge parcel of Mexico for purchase. The area included the states of Coahuila, Chihuahua, Sonora, Nuevo Leon, Tamalpais and Baja. Here at home, forces supporting slavery were set against this purchase because it represented a huge addition to the free territory. So, as weird as it seems, the major reason the Baja is not today part of the United States is because those who supported slavery were against the acquisition.

woody with a view - 4-21-2009 at 04:35 AM

ask the native indians what the problem/solution might be?

ELINVESTIG8R - 4-21-2009 at 05:05 AM

I was never a part of Baja California's problems. Ok, well... ahem... I am only a problem when I am driving to El Rosario. I do tend to go faster that the KPH sign says. Other than that I am no problem. And, I have not yet helped the poor corrupt policeman with a mordida. I don't think I will either.

Pompano - 4-21-2009 at 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Jorge
No. Am I part of the problem? Yes. My name is George and I a Bajajolic! :lol:

There I passed the first step. Where do I go to get support for the other 11? :lol:

I know..I know!

Don't worry, Jorge...55 below keeps the riffraff out!

shari - 4-21-2009 at 09:38 AM

Whatever problems may have existed before my migration here...still exist. But I hope to have added a little ray of sunshine to this part of the world with the birth of Sirenita. She goes forth with the knowledge of 2 cultures in hopes of helping her people and country progress (she chose to stay in mexico to go to university and sincerely wants to contribute what she can here)

through our intercultural journey together, we have tried to promote understanding and acceptance between the cultures in a positive way...teaching others to listen, learn and keep an open mind with the hopes of all getting along.

We have seen the positive interactions in our village that recent foreigners have initiated. Our mexican family & amigos have been enriched by "foreign influence", more so in their outlook on life than monetary...they have tried new things, observed new ways to do things, entertained new ideas, opened their minds, learned about other cultures...etc.etc. the list of benefits of cultural blending is long here...both cultures have so much to offer each other. No, I havent solved anything....but hope to have brought smiles to alot of faces.

comitan - 4-21-2009 at 10:15 AM

Shari

Thank you for the upbeat and enlightening post.

Mulegena - 4-21-2009 at 11:54 AM

Shari, a simple thank you.

BajaGringo - 4-21-2009 at 01:29 PM

Having spent considerable time working and living on different parts of this planet over the last three decades including many years here in Baja I wanted to post right off in this thread. I was actually in the middle of my post when I decided to just let it run its course a bit and see where it would go first.

After a couple of days it looks like it went right about where I expected it would.

Each one of us makes a conscious decision as to whether we live to just take from this world or give back something as well. Perspective plays a huge role in what that really means and whether what we "give back" is what is truly needed IMHO. I believe that what many think they are "giving" is only motivated and directed back to their own personal wants and selfish outlook on life. Living abroad for so many years has definitely changed my own perspective and point of view in that regard...

YMMV

Cypress - 4-21-2009 at 01:55 PM

Just take it a few months at a time, rent a place, not a gated community. :yes:

Get to know your neighbors. I miss my Mulege amigos.

Paula - 4-22-2009 at 03:33 PM

posted by Gnukid on the "Villages of Loreto Bay" thread:

"I often try to learn from Mexicans who are succeeding and learn how they live conservatively, how they make use of the resources they have and use the plants that exist for food and homeopathic care. thankfully I have had the chance this year to see, visit and live on many remote ranchitos and see how people build their own huertas and live very very well self-sustained."

I think Gnukid is on to something here. Had those early sport fisherman not flown in with their money, gifts, and worldly ways, the small, select group who lived here in relative isolation back then may still be living a simple and pure life. Some would have died young, some would have lived a very long time, they would have had enough to eat, and they wouldn't have hungered for things they wouldn't have seen. They would still have had problems, but problems very different than the ones they face now. But people flow on this earth like water, and like water, you can't stop them. So here we are, part of the problem, and hopefully a part of the solution too, depending on what we choose to do here.

[Edited on 4-22-2009 by Paula]

Edits: I didn't think I was being sufficiently verbose, so I added a few extra words :biggrin:

[Edited on 4-22-2009 by Paula]

eetdrt88 - 4-22-2009 at 04:58 PM

i was greeted by this burro and some of his pals when driving the road into bahia de los angeles once,i have never been greeted by such a pleasant burro when entering any destination here in the USA...

l_838a019d96b98725f0b4602e33977c4bmmm.jpg - 39kB

l_838a019d96b98725f0b4602e33977c4bmmm.jpg - 39kB

Don Alley - 4-22-2009 at 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paula
...Had those early sport fisherman not flown in with their money, gifts, and worldly ways, the small, select group who lived here in relative isolation back then may still be living a simple and pure life....

[Edited on 4-22-2009 by Paula]

Hey! You talkin' to me?

:lol:

Pompano - 4-22-2009 at 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paula
Had those early sport fisherman not flown in with their money, gifts, and worldly ways.. Some would have died young, So here we are, part of the problem

We sure as hell were, Paula!

Meet Worldly and Snurdly:

.
Problems are messages.

Sharksbaja - 4-22-2009 at 06:25 PM

My Gawd Mexicans can JUMP!

Paula - 4-22-2009 at 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano

Quote:

Originally posted by Paula
Had those early sport fisherman not flown in with their money, gifts, and worldly ways.. Some would have died young, So here we are, part of the problem

We sure as hell were, Paula!

Meet Worldly and Snurdly:

.
Problems are messages.

You sure have an interesting way with MY words, Roger! :lol:

But I'll forgive you on account of photo #2--- That is SOME picture!

shari - 4-22-2009 at 07:33 PM

OMG...THAT is an amazing photo...love to hear THAT story...do tell...what happened to the plane guy? think it's photoshopped??....eternally sorry for the highjack..