BajaNomad

Cruise ships

805gregg - 4-29-2009 at 07:22 AM

Another hit to Baja and mainland Mexico, no more cruise ships to stop in Mexico. As a land based tourist, I like it. But for those that depend the cruise ship tourists, a tuff time ahead.

flyfishinPam - 4-29-2009 at 07:29 AM

good, their damned diesel engines scare the sardinas away
many who depend on the cruise ship industry are affiliated with the cruise lines themselves, they rarely use local service providers

WHAT !!!!!!!!!!!

nobaddays - 4-29-2009 at 08:06 AM

Cruise ships bring in hugh dollars to Cabo San Lucas. Hell they pay near $25,000.00 on average just to dock !!

oldjack - 4-29-2009 at 08:11 AM

cruise ships do not dock in Cabo.... they anchor out in the harbor... from what I have seen... are you saying they pay $25k for that!?!?!?!?

bajabound2005 - 4-29-2009 at 08:15 AM

The Paradise is sitting out in the bay at Ensenada right now; yesterday the Elation did the same thing. It's going to kill a lot of businesses and hurt a lot of locals. I wouldn't want to be a passenger on one of those ships, or worse yet, an employee taking the brunt of the disgruntled passengers.

nobaddays - 4-29-2009 at 08:19 AM

Yes that is what I mean. The marina is to small to tie up. Cruise ship dock or anchor off Medana beach. The more you pay, the closer to the marina. Not uncommon to pay $35,000.00

durrelllrobert - 4-29-2009 at 09:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabound2005
It's going to kill a lot of businesses and hurt a lot of locals.
Especially La Buffadora:rolleyes:

Osprey - 4-29-2009 at 10:34 AM

I think the moorage in San Lucas is in that range but the real problem was one that Mexico has faced for ages: Who can we trust to collect some kinds of fee? For example the beach caretakers. Most of those who sell licenses or permits, immigration and more. Every department that has a clave number for direct bank deposits indicates the problem with collection.
So for the ships the hangup was: Can we get the ships to pay the $5 dollars passenger tax and collect from the passenger? No? Then, can we have them all form a line and pay one at a time (3,000 passengers)? Can we have ten lines with ten collectors? Should we only take pesos? Dollars? Who gets to keep the money? Should we charge Ryndam more than Disney? The problem is and has always been paypoint and security. I predict one dollar T-shirt sales all over Mexico until they run out.

Bajahowodd - 4-29-2009 at 10:42 AM

Unfortunately for Ensenada, the cruise passenger business was the only thing holding up in the way of tourism. Land visitors have been way down and ever decreasing for well over a year. But let's not forget that there are a host of other ships that visit Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta, even Acapulco, La Paz and Topolobampo.

As for the Cabo anchorage thing, my understanding is that where a ship anchors has more to do with the current tidal conditions than anything else. Ships are charged per passenger. So a 1200 passenger ship will pay less than a 3,000 passenger ship. There is also a variation in charges depending on whether the old passenger dock is used versus the newer one that was funded by the owners of the Paraiso Mall. Anyway, that's what I was told.

DENNIS - 4-29-2009 at 11:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabound2005
The Paradise is sitting out in the bay at Ensenada right now; yesterday the Elation did the same thing. It's going to kill a lot of businesses and hurt a lot of locals. I wouldn't want to be a passenger on one of those ships, or worse yet, an employee taking the brunt of the disgruntled passengers.


Just saw your post, Kathleen. At the moment, one is leaving and another is docked in the harbor. Guess they didn't get the message.

Cypress - 4-29-2009 at 11:07 AM

Yea, The Alaskan EPA was all over the Cruise Ship industry for dumping sewage(treated?) in sensitive areas. Do the math. They're floating hotel/ casinos. Lots of people. Lots of waste water.:(

bajabound2005 - 4-29-2009 at 11:55 AM

The Golden Princess came in, sat in the bay for a couple of hours and then hightailed it out of here.

DENNIS - 4-29-2009 at 12:58 PM

I heard that the ships are only making port, probably to qualify for the gambling license, but not off-loading passengers. Could be true as I havn't seen or heard the tour buses going by my house.

LB - 4-29-2009 at 02:52 PM

Cnn reported that Cabo cruise ships will be diverted. :?: Also public gatherings MAY (AGAIN MAY) not be allowed . Such as what has happened in Mexico City. A local mayor has said it MAY (again MAY) be imposed in our areas of Baja. Not Rumor but Straight from the Mayors mouth.

bajabound2005 - 4-29-2009 at 03:15 PM

Well, wait just a second. Looks the Paradise docked after all!

Bajahowodd - 4-29-2009 at 03:35 PM

I read a blog this morning from someone who is in the travel industry and was aboard a princess ship. The Captain made an announcement that they would be making a "technical" call on Cabo; that no passengers would be going ashore. Since there is no cruise ship dock there to begin with, whereas in Ensenada, there is, the "technical' call could be for any thing such as buying batteries, tequila, even fuel. In fact, I've seen staff members leave ship at or near their home when their time was up.

David K - 4-29-2009 at 04:22 PM

Per the morning news: They're coming to San Diego instead! Good for the local economy here!

Bajahowodd - 4-29-2009 at 04:52 PM

Nothing like an exotic port of call!:lol:

David K - 4-29-2009 at 04:58 PM

Yup... and no 'time share pimps' either!

Zoo (largest in the world), Sea World, Wild Animal Park, Horton Plaza, Coronado, honest cops, and you're innocent until proven guilty!:bounce::rolleyes:

Don Alley - 4-29-2009 at 05:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 805gregg
Another hit to Baja and mainland Mexico, no more cruise ships to stop in Mexico. As a land based tourist, I like it. But for those that depend the cruise ship tourists, a tuff time ahead.


I've heard this news before,and as far as I'm concerned, it's too good to be true.

bajabillybob - 4-29-2009 at 06:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Yup... and no 'time share pimps' either!

Zoo (largest in the world), Sea World, Wild Animal Park, Horton Plaza, Coronado, honest cops, and you're innocent until proven guilty!:bounce::rolleyes:




I could not agree more.

Bajahowodd - 4-29-2009 at 07:26 PM

The ships that will be diverting to San Diego from Ensenada primarily embark from LA-Long Beach. What you guys are missing is that many potential passengers will not pay the hundreds of dollars to cruise from LA to SD. If they want to vacation in SD, they'll drive down I-5. They would have anyway. From my perspective, except for a rehersal for people who have never cruised before, these cruises are a total waste of time.

DENNIS - 4-29-2009 at 07:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
The ships that will be diverting to San Diego from Ensenada primarily embark from LA-Long Beach. What you guys are missing is that many potential passengers will not pay the hundreds of dollars to cruise from LA to SD. If they want to vacation in SD, they'll drive down I-5. They would have anyway. From my perspective, except for a rehersal for people who have never cruised before, these cruises are a total waste of time.



Could be and probably so, but it's my understanding that a three day cruise in local waters is reasonable...around four hundred bucks for three days...L.A to Ensenada and back. Sounds affordable to me.

Ohhh Osprey

Gypsy Jan - 4-29-2009 at 08:07 PM

The voice of reason and facts - which are largely ignored by posters.

DENNIS - 4-29-2009 at 08:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
facts


What's them?

Gypsy Jan - 4-29-2009 at 08:41 PM

Fax? Don't them come out of those newfangled electronic thingies?

Bajahowodd - 4-29-2009 at 10:55 PM

Looking at the facts, if the world was not going crazy right now, a clear case could be made to allow ships to continue to visit Ensenada. At present, there have been no reported cases in either San Diego or Ensenada. So, why punish Ensenada?

fishingmako - 4-29-2009 at 11:03 PM

You can take a (7) day cruise from San Diego To Cabo, Mazatlan, Puerto Vallerta $499.00 Princess did it last year.

bajabound2005 - 4-30-2009 at 06:12 AM

The ships are docking in Ensenada (probably to refuel) but the passengers are not allowed to get off.

805gregg - 4-30-2009 at 07:09 AM

A women just returning from baja to LA has come down with the swine flu. As reported on channel 7 news this morning. I understand the cruise ships will be stopping at Santa Barbara instead of Mex.

bajalou - 4-30-2009 at 07:34 AM

It appears that anyone feeling unwell gets labeled "Swime Fllue".

WHO reports only 7 deaths confirmed to be caused by Swine Flue worldwide, and all in Mex.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/who-says-only-seven-confir...

DENNIS - 4-30-2009 at 07:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajalou
WHO reports only 7 deaths confirmed to be caused by Swine Flue worldwide, and all in Mex.



A staggering figure. I'm equally concerned about those 5000 people who, in the same time frame, were killed on skateboards.

ERADICATE SKATEBOARDS

David K - 4-30-2009 at 07:48 AM

A Mexican child died in San Diego of swine flu yesterday... and on the map you can see several swine flu cases in San Diego County, Tijuana and Mexicali... those last two cities are in Baja, no?

rhintransit - 4-30-2009 at 07:58 AM

I'm assuming, though it is not really clear from the postings, that the cruise ships are not landing passengers currently because of the threat of swine flu. is that correct?
I had heard a rumor, which I cannot confirm, that Holland America will not be doing any more stops in Loreto after the 2009 season because that city, in short sighted wisdom, decided to increase in the port taxes an additional $5/passenger. anyone know if this is so?

bajabound2005 - 4-30-2009 at 08:10 AM

The passengers cannot disembark due to Swine Flue; the Federal Govt was imposing a $5 fee that has since been rescinded (the Port of Loreto may indeed be imposing their own fee).

My understanding is there are still no CONFIRMED cases of SF in Baja. The fact that a Mexican child died of SF in San Diego doesn't mean he got it in Mexico...ditto for the woman who "recently visited Baja". All circumstantial...

David K - 4-30-2009 at 08:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabound2005
The passengers cannot disembark due to Swine Flue; the Federal Govt was imposing a $5 fee that has since been rescinded (the Port of Loreto may indeed be imposing their own fee).

My understanding is there are still no CONFIRMED cases of SF in Baja. The fact that a Mexican child died of SF in San Diego doesn't mean he got it in Mexico...ditto for the woman who "recently visited Baja". All circumstantial...


You would make a good criminal defense lawyer! :lol:;)

Bajahowodd - 4-30-2009 at 10:51 AM

I have a couple of comments and a question that perhaps you folks living in and around Loreto might answer.

First, as far as I know, the only ship making regular calls to loreto was the Holland America itinerary that included a stop at Topolobampo for the opportunity to take a day excursion part way into Copper Canyon. That ship called on Loreto once every ten days for a few of the winter months.

Second, the cruise lines do extensive market research with their passengers and survey satisfaction levels about itineraries and ports. They listen, and do make changes.

With that in mind, what's it like when 2000+ cruise passengers end up walking the streets in Loreto?

rhintransit - 4-30-2009 at 12:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd[/i

With that in mind, what's it like when 2000+ cruise passengers end up walking the streets in Loreto?


every ten days, when I see the big white ship, I make a point to avoid going to town. but all in all it's probably pretty good for local business and having taken my morning cup of tea down to the marina to watch the disembarkment they've got the tours, excursions, taxis, pony carts, etc very well organized. the rest of the passengers who chose to visit town, plus those coming back from excursions are entertained with a program in the square and (presummably) with wandering around shopping and generally looking lost. they are clearly identifiable from necktags and when I accidentally hit town when they do, I make a point of greeting them, talking to them, giving them tips on where to eat, shop etc

Pregunta

MrBillM - 4-30-2009 at 01:54 PM

I haven't read everything so I don't know if this has been touched on, But was the law ever changed regarding Gambling ? I remember years ago that they were trying to change the law that required a foreign-stop on the cruise for Gambling to be allowed on the Cruise ships. Which was one of the main reasons for the Ensenada destination. Can they now cruise only between U.S. Ports and allow gambling ?

I've never been on a cruise, never wanted to and Never will, so this is an area I only read about once in awhile in the papers.

Bajahowodd - 4-30-2009 at 02:48 PM

Actually, Bill, the call on a foreign port is a requirement under the Jones act, for any foreign flagged vessels. That's to prevent foreign flagged vessels from transporting Americans directly between US ports. Just like foreign airlines. That is why they reflagged that ship to the American flag that does the Hawaii cruises. The ship used to have to waste a day making a call at some silly foreign atol. NCL also had to establish a separate us company to run the ship, and employ Americans at US wages and under US labor laws. Also why ships that go from here to Hawaii, do it from Ensenada. The gambling thing is about how many miles out to sea. I think it's seven. And under treaty, no ship casino is open while in any port worldwide.

I'm guessing that any reports about using Santa Barbara as a port would still require them to stop in Ensenada. Unless emergency waivers were issue.

[Edited on 4-30-2009 by Bajahowodd]

Osprey - 4-30-2009 at 05:08 PM

If this flu thing will just blow over, the whole thing has given me a plan to make big bucks. I go up to Catavina, get Sr. "Gotta peso", drag his butt down to Cabo and the two of us just hold out our cups near the marina dock as the cruise ship passengers pass by. It is obvious the passengers are looking for authentic Mexican flavor in all things -- that's why they're here! We don't need no stinking playeras.

Cruise Ship Gambling

MrBillM - 4-30-2009 at 05:27 PM

As I stated, I have little insight into the subject since I've never had ANY experience with Cruise Ships other than using them to advantage in Puerto Rico and St. Thomas to get around town.

BUT, I found what it was I had been thinking of from years back (1993) :

New state gambling law jeopardizes cruise business; port officials decry the effects of cruise ship cutbacks. (regulation of off-shore casino gambling)

Article from:
Los Angeles Business Journal
Article date:
March 29, 1993
Author:
Deady, Tim | Copyright informationCOPYRIGHT 1993 CBJ, L.P. This material is published under license from the publisher through the Gale Group, Farmington Hills, Michigan. All inquiries regarding rights should be directed to the Gale Group. (Hide copyright information)

A little-noticed new state law regulating off-shore casino gambling could have the unintended effect of driving away cruise line business from local ports, according to port and tourism officials.

At issue is a law that went into effect on Jan. 1 that prohibits casino gambling on passenger ships that make successive stops at California ports. Although the law is aimed at gambling vessels, cruise ships that make scheduled successive stops at San Diego, Los Angeles and San Francisco could not operate on-board casinos while off the coast of California.

Already, one major cruise line has halved the number of stops at Avalon on Catalina Island because of the law, and local and ...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question Answered.

As I said, my only experience with Cruise Ships was in San Juan and Charlotte Amalie. We found, by accident, that we could travel from the Cruise Ship Docks in both locations to and from the town centers by boarding the trolleys or busses provided for the Cruise Ship passengers. They simply assumed you were one of the passengers. Saved on Taxi fares.

That's the sum total of my Cruise Ship experience.

DENNIS - 4-30-2009 at 05:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Osprey
If this flu thing will just blow over, the whole thing has given me a plan to make big bucks. I go up to Catavina, get Sr. "Gotta peso", drag his butt down to Cabo and the two of us just hold out our cups near the marina dock as the cruise ship passengers pass by. It is obvious the passengers are looking for authentic Mexican flavor in all things -- that's why they're here! We don't need no stinking playeras.



My best laugh for a long time. Thanks Jorge. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Bajahowodd - 5-1-2009 at 11:15 PM

My description of the details of the Jones Act is the controling factor. Your Google find about a news story from 1993 doesn't complete the story. In fact, the California Attorney General ruled that this law did not apply to commercial cruise ships. Only to the so-called cruises to nowhere, which were floating casinos. As I noted in my original post, NCL absorbed a tremendous cost to be able to transport passengers among the Hawaiian Islands. Foreign flagged vessels cannot transport passenger between two US ports unless they make a foreign call.

Holy Jesus and Maria Too

MrBillM - 5-2-2009 at 06:04 PM

W-T-F ?

I don't have the whole story ? Go back to the original post. I ASKED a Frigging question about a story I had read in the newspaper (in 1993) that I VAGUELY remembered had SOMETHING to do with Gambling and Cruise Ships. I WONDERED what that had been and whether it would affect the current situation.

Although I guess it might give some odd satisfaction to beat this into the ground, KNOWING doesn't mean anything since I started out by saying I knew almost nothing about it.

Never Stepped on a Cruise Ship. Never Will.

Well, the SS Catalina back in the 50s, but that doesn't really count.

BUT, thanks.

BTW, in the interest of "Accuracy" and the "Whole Story", Odd's assumption that I "Googled" the story is inaccurate. I don't use Google as a search engine.

Glad we cleared that one up.

[Edited on 5-3-2009 by MrBillM]

Bajahowodd - 5-3-2009 at 12:04 AM

Actually, you might enjoy a cruise. They are dirt cheap right now and the food is fantastic. Not to mention, if you book a balcony cabin and use room service, you'll never have to worry about crowds. No dressing up. No BS. One of my most favorite experiences was a cruise to the Black Sea two years ago. We were on a small ship (680 passengers), had a balcony cabin. We transitted the Dardenelles heading to Istanbul, having champagne brunch on our balcony.