BajaNomad - Tourist murdered in Tecate

Tourist murdered in Tecate

arrowhead - 5-16-2009 at 11:48 AM

An American family on its way back to the US from Ensenada stopped to eat in Tecate. A person dressed like a cholo stole the wife's purse. The husband took pursuit. The cholo drew a pisto and killed him, wounding another person. The family lived in El Cajon. The dead man was Esteban Ramírez Cuevas, 34 yers old. He was traveling with his wife and three children.

http://www.frontera.info/EdicionEnLinea/Notas/Noticias/16052...

Hate to be blunt but...

Dave - 5-16-2009 at 12:36 PM

Esteban Ramírez Cuevas wasn't a tourist.

Now...if his name was Steve Rogers :rolleyes:

Von - 5-16-2009 at 12:43 PM

I thought a tourist was someone who didnt live in the area they are visiting? What do they call them then?

That sucks knowing myself id probably would of done the same stupid mistake chased after him too.

CaboRon - 5-16-2009 at 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Esteban Ramírez Cuevas wasn't a tourist.

Now...if his name was Steve Rogers :rolleyes:

Thank you Dave,

I too have noticed that most of the targets have hispanic surnames.

Most criminals prey on their own race, as also happened to the four kids killed in the van in tj.

An interesting social perspective that is also born out in the US.

CaboRon

CaboRon - 5-16-2009 at 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Von
I thought a tourist was someone who didnt live in the area they are visiting? What do they call them then?

That sucks knowing myself id probably would of done the same stupid mistake chased after him too.

NEVER take a knife to a gunfight ...

Von - 5-16-2009 at 12:50 PM

He never knew it was a gun fight when he was with his family.

Woooosh - 5-16-2009 at 12:53 PM

Sadly- this is Calderons plan. He wanted to break the big gangs into smaller units the local police could manage. Only they cant handle the job- and really don't want it. You will see more lawlessness and crimes of opportunity as drug profits get squeezed. As I've said before many times- it is the Mexican people who will pay the price for this war- if not through direct robbery, extortions, kidnapping or by the loss of their incomes- then by loss of income from decreased tourism caused by the same factors.

[Edited on 5-16-2009 by Woooosh]

Cypress - 5-16-2009 at 01:15 PM

The purse snatchers will kill you over pocket change. The cartel dudes will kill you and your family if you get crossed up with 'em and usually it's a tad more than the contents of a womens purse. You're dead either way.

The free-lance purse snatchers pose more of a threat to the average person.

TheColoradoDude - 5-16-2009 at 01:17 PM

That was my main rule when I took my friend Jenny down to Baja. Leave your purse in the room or car! She had a hard time with that, but I assured her about the possible consequences. Why do women carry them anyway?

Woooosh - 5-16-2009 at 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
The purse snatchers will kill you over pocket change. The cartel dudes will kill you and your family if you get crossed up with 'em and usually it's a tad more than the contents of a womens purse. You're dead either way.

The free-lance purse snatchers pose more of a threat to the average person.

The money that used to "trickle down" to the street thugs from the narcos is gone. That's my point. This is the new normal as the street criminals look for cash from victims instead workig a "job" for the narcos who presumably can't move as much drugs right now (as they still find border tunnels every few months). Do you think all the people who count on money from the narcos over the years is just going to go without that income when there are plenty of pigeons around? Fat chance.

Bajahowodd - 5-16-2009 at 01:47 PM

Woooosh- Your theory may be right. But until I see a long term pattern, not so sure. First, this crime happens all over the world. Could have happened in Long Beach. I really cannot imagine every punk and street thug being somehow supported by the cartels.(previously)

Second, the Mexican economy is really strained, between the big drop in tourism, the recession, and then the flu. In such times, no matter the country, crime does rise.

We do know that the cartel violence was getting way out of hand. We know that it has moderated significantly. (by the way, your critique of Calderone- exactly how would you do it differently?)

Over the past several months, there have been a number of crimes discussed. There was the meat truck driver, the pizza guy, a disappearance of a teen (possibly unrelated to Baja), then recently the dead kids in the van. In the case of several crimes, there's been speculation that the victims were complicit in that they were involved in illegal activity.

I can't state with absolute certainty that I would not have chased after the guy. But, intellectually, I realize the possibility of harm should dissuade me. Just about the entire contents of the purse is replaceable. Life is not.

That was NOT my point

Dave - 5-16-2009 at 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Esteban Ramírez Cuevas wasn't a tourist.

Now...if his name was Steve Rogers :rolleyes:

Steve Rogers would have made the front page of USA Today and CNN.

CaboRon - 5-16-2009 at 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Esteban Ramírez Cuevas wasn't a tourist.

Now...if his name was Steve Rogers :rolleyes:

Steve Rogers would have made the front page of USA Today and CNN.

Who is Steve Rogers ??

I don't think that is Mr. Rogers first name :lol:

Racist do live in Baja

Bronco - 5-16-2009 at 03:05 PM

I can't believe these comments. For your racist mind ponder this? When I went thru MCRD my platoon had several Hispanics and they died in Vietnam for the USA.

Woooosh - 5-16-2009 at 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Woooosh- Your theory may be right. But until I see a long term pattern, not so sure. First, this crime happens all over the world. Could have happened in Long Beach. I really cannot imagine every punk and street thug being somehow supported by the cartels.(previously)

Second, the Mexican economy is really strained, between the big drop in tourism, the recession, and then the flu. In such times, no matter the country, crime does rise.

We do know that the cartel violence was getting way out of hand. We know that it has moderated significantly. (by the way, your critique of Calderone- exactly how would you do it differently?)

Over the past several months, there have been a number of crimes discussed. There was the meat truck driver, the pizza guy, a disappearance of a teen (possibly unrelated to Baja), then recently the dead kids in the van. In the case of several crimes, there's been speculation that the victims were complicit in that they were involved in illegal activity.

I can't state with absolute certainty that I would not have chased after the guy. But, intellectually, I realize the possibility of harm should dissuade me. Just about the entire contents of the purse is replaceable. Life is not.

All good points. I don't think people realize how many Billions of dollars trickle down from drug gangs to normal people in the course of daily life. It's truly the invisible hand that feeds Mexico. This is how criminals in every third world environment win trust and cooperation among the poor.

You're not seeing Mexicans turing in their neighborhood narcos for the huge rewards- you are seeing them stay quiet until the gov't evcentually cacthes them on their own. A rural Catholic Archbishop recently stated that the only ones who didn't know the top narcos was hiding inhis area was the gov't.

As far as what would I have done different from Calderon? He is fighting the right fight but he underestimated the lack of ability, integrity and support of the police, military and judicial systems. Truly. He went to war without an army. He should have known his own team better before taking the field. He neede a few years of backgroungd work and skill buildingbefore launchinghis assault IMHO. He has only swatted the hornets nest.

In reality mnay forces are at work. Coke is now going for twice as much on the street in Spain as in the USA- so the latin ameircan gangs are bypassing the Mexico/USA route altogether right now. It's messy and not as prorfitable. It also makes it look like Calderon is making more progress than he is. JMHO of course.

Cypress - 5-16-2009 at 03:23 PM

Get over it Bronco AKA "I see racism everywhere". You're song and dance has gotten old and mouldy.

burnrope - 5-16-2009 at 03:33 PM

I love it. Adam Smith and Wealth of Nations makes it into the Narco wars. He introduced the "invisible hand" concept in the late late 1700's. Basically if you work hard you make the world a better place.

What 'rewards'?

Dave - 5-16-2009 at 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
You're not seeing Mexicans turing in their neighborhood narcos for the huge rewards

DENNIS - 5-16-2009 at 04:16 PM

WOW....This thread has gone a long way from some guy trying to get back his wife's purse to ultimo racismo. What happened to the heart and soul of this joint? I give Hero Status to the guy for having the balls to make the effort. Isn't that worth something here?
Think about it, all you self-serving piles of crap, who think your whiskey logic trumps the feelings of the mans wife and kids.
You people embarrase[sp] me with your prioritys.
How lost you try to be.

Woooosh - 5-16-2009 at 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
You're not seeing Mexicans turing in their neighborhood narcos for the huge rewards

Yeah. Getting money you can't live long enough to spend isn't much of a reward is it? Many of the narcos have multi-million dollar bounties on them.

Bajahowodd - 5-16-2009 at 04:50 PM

Woooosh- Thanks for the thoughtful reply. You very may be correct about Calderone failing to do his homework.

Dennis- Would you rather be a hero or alive?

Jack- Unless you want to be seen as an unqualified bigot, please define for me what is a real American.

Gracias, todos.

Where?

Dave - 5-16-2009 at 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
Many of the narcos have multi-million dollar bounties on them.

I've seen the notices at the border. Does Mexico offer like rewards?

marv sherrill - 5-16-2009 at 05:54 PM

never argue with an idiot - those watching (reading) might not be able to tell the difference...

Dennis- we don't always agree

thebajarunner - 5-16-2009 at 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
WOW....This thread has gone a long way from some guy trying to get back his wife's purse to ultimo racismo. What happened to the heart and soul of this joint? I give Hero Status to the guy for having the balls to make the effort. Isn't that worth something here?
Think about it, all you self-serving piles of crap, who think your whiskey logic trumps the feelings of the mans wife and kids.
You people embarrase[sp] me with your prioritys.
How lost you try to be.

but right now you are spot on, my man.

How (and why) do sickos like that creep find their way to the keyboard, let alone to a complete sentence.

This country is great because, at one time or another, we all "came here"

and yeah, I also agree with the sentiment that said, "how did a thread on trying to help your wife get so far out in the whacko field?"

(and, just for the record, I am about as conservative as they come.... just ask Baja Vida, or others on this board- and my wife's family name is Quintero and I have four adopted sons named Juan, Ricardo, Carlos and Tito.... what does that make me?)

DENNIS - 5-16-2009 at 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Dennis- Would you rather be a hero or alive?

I don't understand the pertinance of the question. This whole thread is after the fact that the man was killed.
That known by most here, the conversation goes to the extremes of ignoring that his wife got to sit there and see him get killed. It goes on to ethnicity and legality and all sorts of other crap without anybody saying, even once, that his wife is also a victim. I assume they have kids. How are they going to feel if they read this thread and see the cold insensitivity of all you geniuses figuering out the wheres and whys and justifications of his early, violent demise. It's there husband and father. He's gone at an early age.
It's too early to throw him into the bin of statistics.
The feeding frenzy is too soon and too easily born here.

DENNIS - 5-16-2009 at 06:10 PM

Thanks Runner....We posted on top of each other.

Woooosh - 5-16-2009 at 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
Many of the narcos have multi-million dollar bounties on them.

I've seen the notices at the border. Does Mexico offer like rewards?

The USA pays those bounties no matter where you find them.

I've learned to just skip over the conversations I don't like within a thread. Better to ignore than inflame. Some people just like to push buttons in threads after a few cold ones- just be glad you aren't sitting next to one in person.

[Edited on 5-17-2009 by Woooosh]

redmesa - 5-16-2009 at 06:28 PM

There are very few things worth dying for and my purse sure is not one of them. I imagine that is just what his wife is thinking now. I sometimes carry a purse in the cities and in risky areas (usually concealed under a jacket) but it is not something I would fight to keep nor expect anyone else to risk their lives to retrieve. Heroism has its place but not for most material things.

Woooosh - 5-16-2009 at 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by redmesa
There are very few things worth dying for and my purse sure is not one of them. I imagine that is just what his wife is thinking now. I sometimes carry a purse in the cities and in risky areas (usually concealed under a jacket) but it is not something I would fight to keep nor expect anyone else to risk their lives to retrieve. Heroism has its place but not for most material things.

I have NEVER seen a lady place her purse on a table in an open-air restaurnt in Mexico. I'm sure it was something that just "came up" for the crook- although having a gun means he was definately out looking for a victim.

Sadly- lots of tweekers in Mexcio right now. It's a cheap addictive garbage concoction that rots their brains so fast they don't ever know what hit them. Tweekers do lots of stupid crimes. San Diego went through this crystal meth thing in the 80's- it was horrible. I don't know why it has become so popular just the past few years in Baja Norte.

[Edited on 5-17-2009 by Woooosh]

dtbushpilot - 5-16-2009 at 07:10 PM

I've tried to imagine sitting at a sidewalk restaurant with my wife and maybe kids and having some POS grab my wife's purse. Smart or not I know that my reaction would be to chase him down, not because the contents of my wife's purse had some great monetary value but because of the challenge to my manhood in front of my wife that this ******bag represented. I would have a hard time not going after the creep now at 55, there would be no way that I could have watched this creep run off with my wife's purse when I was 34.

I couldn't help but think back a few years ago to a balmy fall evening in San Diego. I was at a Padre game with my beautiful, sometimes nigh-eve girl friend, soon to become wife. We left a few minutes early and as we were walking in front of the stadium my wife stopped a young, sagging pants, sideways hat gang banger, handed him her new camera and asked him to take our picture.......no, really....I immediately sized him up and decided that there was no possible way that I could chase him down if he were to run off with the camera. He didn't, he took our picture.

Glad it worked out the way it did.....dt

SiReNiTa - 5-16-2009 at 07:11 PM

wow...first of all...i am so very sorry for the family of the poor man...and second...OH MY GOSH...i mean really...who is a real american...what the hay!!! last i looked we are all americans as we all live in a big huge thing called a continent and it just so happens that this continent we live in is AMERICA...and third...how can someone be so near sighted as to say that as long as it was not a real american he won't lose any sleep about it...well...to the person that said that and to any one who thinks that way i hope you never have to suffer like the mans family is suffering and i hope that if one day (God forbid) something like that happens to you no one makes bad statements like the one you did...have a heart for once in your life or are you completely blind to the worlds problems because FYI the world is not just the US buddy...i'm sorry if this is uncomfortable to some of you but i can not just read this stuff and not say anything...imagine it was you then speak...

rts551 - 5-16-2009 at 07:41 PM

Sirenita

Sometimes my lady, you have to ignore idiots. Yes we are all Americans on this continent

DENNIS - 5-16-2009 at 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

I've learned to just skip over the conversations I don't like within a thread. Better to ignore than inflame. Some people just like to push buttons in threads after a few cold ones- just be glad you aren't sitting next to one in person.

OhhhhPleeeeeze...When did discretion ever stop you from making a comment...........on anything.

IF it Bleeds...........

MrBillM - 5-16-2009 at 07:55 PM

Those who say this kind of street crime happens everywhere are right.

Those who say nothing can be done about it are also likely correct.

Those who get Paranoid over the UNFAIR coverage because it happened in Mexico should just get over it. Mexico is right across the border and not halfway around the world so the area news media is going to play it up. That isn't going to change either.

On a personal level, all that people can do is use common-sense and attempt to reduce their vulnerability.

Woooosh - 5-16-2009 at 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

OhhhhPleeeeeze...When did discretion ever stop you from making a comment...........on anything.

How's that for irony! Thanks for the laugh you knucklehead you...

:lol:

Woooosh - 5-16-2009 at 08:20 PM

Even if they are caught and go to jail... It's hard to keep them there.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/05/16/mexico.pris...

Woooosh - 5-17-2009 at 10:30 AM

Two days now and no news release. We're going to have to file this one with the strong armed tourist robbery in Popotla where the SUV was supposedly stolen near Blvd 2000 last week. You can''t have bad days if you don't release or print the bad news

Woooosh - 5-18-2009 at 07:30 AM

OK- finally a blurb in Mondays Union Tribune... 9 mils aren't commonly carried walking around looking for victims sothis is still a mysterious crime to me.

"An El Cajon man was shot and killed Friday night while trying to stop a robber from stealing his wife's purse, the Baja California Attorney General's Office said. Esteban Ramirez Cuevas, 34, tried to recover the bag when he was shot in the chest with a 9 mm gun about 8:30 p.m. just south of downtown Tecate, the Attorney General's Office said. A man working at a nearby car wash also was shot and taken to a hospital. The robber escaped."

[Edited on 5-18-2009 by Woooosh]

durrelllrobert - 5-18-2009 at 07:57 AM

Quote:

Some people just like to push buttons in threads after a few cold ones- just be glad you aren't sitting next to one in person.

So now this thread has evolved into critizing us alcoholics??

Woooosh - 5-18-2009 at 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Some people just like to push buttons in threads after a few cold ones- just be glad you aren't sitting next to one in person.

So now this thread has evolved into critizing us alcoholics??

Only on the weekends... and only if you miss a meeting. :tumble:

Mulegena - 5-18-2009 at 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SiReNiTa
wow...first of all...i am so very sorry for the family of the poor man...and second...OH MY GOSH...i mean really...who is a real american...what the hay!!! last i looked we are all americans as we all live in a big huge thing called a continent and it just so happens that this continent we live in is AMERICA...and third...how can someone be so near sighted as to say that as long as it was not a real american he won't lose any sleep about it...well...to the person that said that and to any one who thinks that way i hope you never have to suffer like the mans family is suffering and i hope that if one day (God forbid) something like that happens to you no one makes bad statements like the one you did...have a heart for once in your life or are you completely blind to the worlds problems because FYI the world is not just the US buddy...i'm sorry if this is uncomfortable to some of you but i can not just read this stuff and not say anything...imagine it was you then speak...

Thank you, Serenita, for having the strength of character that is evident here; first, the clarity of mind and purity of spirit in your person; the second, to speak up and speak out.

Thank you, my good fellow human being and citizen of Alta America.

CaboRon - 5-18-2009 at 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
Two days now and no news release. We're going to have to file this one with the strong armed tourist robbery in Popotla where the SUV was supposedly stolen near Blvd 2000 last week. You can''t have bad days if you don't release or print the bad news

It is in todays San Diego Union ...

Cyanide41 - 5-20-2009 at 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot
I've tried to imagine sitting at a sidewalk restaurant with my wife and maybe kids and having some POS grab my wife's purse. Smart or not I know that my reaction would be to chase him down, not because the contents of my wife's purse had some great monetary value but because of the challenge to my manhood in front of my wife that this ******bag represented. I would have a hard time not going after the creep now at 55, there would be no way that I could have watched this creep run off with my wife's purse when I was 34.

I couldn't help but think back a few years ago to a balmy fall evening in San Diego. I was at a Padre game with my beautiful, sometimes nigh-eve girl friend, soon to become wife. We left a few minutes early and as we were walking in front of the stadium my wife stopped a young, sagging pants, sideways hat gang banger, handed him her new camera and asked him to take our picture.......no, really....I immediately sized him up and decided that there was no possible way that I could chase him down if he were to run off with the camera. He didn't, he took our picture.

Glad it worked out the way it did.....dt

I am calling BS. A fall night?? Like October? We all know our poor Padres don't play in October.

(I am only kidding.... kind of. ). Very lovely wife by the way.

I would have to think that people making the "not a tourist" comments were just making off color jokes or have clearly never been to El Centro. I grew up with a kid named Manuel Jesus Guerrero, who knew two words in Spanish. Taco and Cerveza. When/If that guy was in Baja, he was definitely a tourist.

Bottom line is that this is a sad tragedy and I feel for the poor man’s family. I too would have given chase. Even though I think we all agree it’s not worth a life. The thief should have just pulled out the gun, at the point I know I would have said “No problem! Enjoy that purse.”

dtbushpilot - 5-20-2009 at 11:21 AM

So true Cyanide, if the punk would be considerate enough to show his gun up front it would make the decision to give chase a lot easier. A gun trumps macho manhood every time.

Thanks for the compliment, she is indeed lovely......she demonstrates poor judgement in picking men but lovely none the less :lol:

.....dt