BajaNomad - A Different Butt Ugly cruise ship visits Loreto

A Different Butt Ugly cruise ship visits Loreto

flyfishinPam - 5-21-2009 at 05:51 AM

A different ship came to Loreto yesterday. It appeared larger than the Holland America Ryndam. It arrived later than we usually expect the ships and it only stayed off Loreto for a few hours. Less than 100 people got off the ship and it was reported that there were only just over 110 passengers on the entire ship!

After their stop in Loreto which only lasted a few hours, this grand ship then went to Isla Coronado and appeared to drop its anchor over our el bajo reef! amazing it could get through that channel at all. Unfreakingbelieveable. Pangueros were furious and its understandable. I could see it off Coronado from my house 6 miles away and it stayed there for several hours.

How the hell does having this ship help the economy of Loreto?

Here is an article on it:
http://www.radarpolitico.com/2009/05/17/arribara-el-crucero-...

they may not approve my comments on their story.
just in case here it is:
"Como ayudaba la economia de Loreto ayer este barco? El API cerreran el muelle para prevenir prestadores de servicios y marineros de su trabajo normal? Tambien este barco solo estaba aqui en el puerto de Loreto para algunas horas y menos de cien personas desembararcan?? Despues este barco fue por Isla Coronado y ponio su ancla en el bajo, un arrefece importante para ese area! Este accion quito trabajo de los pangueros que laboran en el mar para su vida. Donde estaba el Parque Marino cuando ese barco paso horas en la isla??? MALO!"

[Edited on 5-21-2009 by flyfishinPam]

CaboRon - 5-21-2009 at 06:30 AM

I haden't realized they had actually built this ship ....

A few years ago they were selling shares .....

You buy in like a condo ....

Here is there web site .....

http://www.residensea.com/

Interesting concept, however I didn't realize they would plow through sensitive areas.

This is a cruise that never stops .....

Now, let the games begin.

BMG - 5-21-2009 at 06:43 AM

Interesting concept. Buy a moving condo. Or just rent a room for U$1700 - U$4700 per night. I doubt that they help many local economies very much when they stop.

Woooosh - 5-21-2009 at 07:20 AM

"The World" is an amazing ship becaue the of the concept, not the boat itself. It is an all condo, privately owned vessel. You need to be a gazillionaire even to apply to buy one- they are mucho dinero and if you think your HOA is high- there's will knock your socks off (starting at $10K per month). You buy the empty steel box and then totally make it your own. Because it's a boat with a lifespan- the units actually depreciate on a schedule- so it's not really an investment.

The advantage of The World is that is isn't a commercial boat and isn't in a hurry to go anywhere. It wanders the globe from one A-Lister location and event to another (I'm very surprised it isn't in Cannes right now) and docks for weeks not days at a time. The owners of the condos just fly their private jets to where it is and hop on for days weeks or months. Very few owners stay on-board the whole time. Most owners don't ever rent their units out- but some do.

The most intersting articles I have read about this boat are not about the boat itself, the individual owners or the insane units people create- it's about the social interactions on board. Because some people rent their units there is an ongoing on-board snobberry between owners and renters. Not that people who can pay $10,000 a day to rent one are dirtbags- they just aren't wealthy enough to trust or socailize with- let alone invite to dine in their private dining rooms. Very intersting.

I'm not surprised many didn't get off and spend money. There might not be many people on-board. Evenwhen they are- these people get off and buy a villa, antique or lamborghini and then hop back on- they aren't much into trinkets and I'm sure their private chefs keep them well fed.

Check out this unit for sale... http://www.aboardtheworld.com/ownership/residences-for-sale/...
[Edited on 5-21-2009 by Woooosh]

[Edited on 5-21-2009 by Woooosh]

vandenberg - 5-21-2009 at 07:39 AM

Ahhhh!!......the pitfalls of being rich. :biggrin:

flyfishinPam - 5-21-2009 at 09:44 AM

Lovely thanks for the info. You know I was thining about the Cruise ships that visit Loreto. We have the Holland America msRyndam and the Cruise West Endevour and the National Geographic Sea Eagle and one more small one from Cabo.

My experience with the Holland America ship is that it has 1500 passengers and they spend most of the day in town. some only a few go on side excursions like San Javier, Whale watching, island trip to Coronado. Most stay on the ship or just come on land to stretch their legs. IMHO little money is spent in the town itself at restaurants, gift shops etc. At least they do hire local boats to take them to coronado island and the San Javier trip does offer employment for guides.

The NG ship has fewer passengers and doesn't come to Loreto very often. They are out at sea more as it is more of a naturalist cruise. When they spend their day in town they probably drop more $$ in Loreto than the entire Ryndam.

The Cruise West ship I do have experience with. I worked as a guide for them doing whale watching, San Javier and city tours. The passengers are VERY concerned and aware of stimulating the local economies of the ports they stop at. They are very interested in the local culture, fauna and flora. I have had some actually taking notes on my tours who weren't reporters but amateur naturalists. These people spend a day in town and they spend more $$ in one day than several Ryndam cruises.

Now this new ship is a floating timeshare? WOW enlightening. I would think that these people if they had this money would give a crap about the local economies they spend their time in. Do we want a cruise ship like this in town? Think about the environmental impact alone a ship this size has.

I gotta get back to work now but thank you for providing that link! This will be addressed at the next Marine Park planning meetings, and the next Eco Alianza meeting. I would think the people of Loreto should have some say as to who their future tourist will be and what kind of an impact they will have. Also word needs to be spread to these people as they likley don't even know these things.

Hook - 5-21-2009 at 09:47 AM

So, unless cruise ships actually disembark passengers who are willing to spend lots of money on the locals, they have no business being in Loreto waters? :rolleyes:

So what if they are all rich? Didn't we all learn long ago that the "trickle-down" economic theory is flawed.

What was the ship purported to be doing wrong off the beach at Coronado?

Travel Channel Documentary on Residencesea

Gypsy Jan - 5-21-2009 at 10:06 AM

I watched this a few months ago.

According to the doc, the condo owners can decide/plan where the ship goes.

They conducted interviews with owners (one couple said they were running their business from the ship), an interior decorator (who did a truly amazingly beautiful job on the various condos he was hired to outfit.

But, the most interesting thing was the background interviews with the captain, the security force and the engineering people.

They claim to be terrorist proof (Mossad trained it was implied), and described the procedures in place to vet visitors.

They claim to be completely "green" They stated that all waste is recycled and only processed fresh water is released to the ocean.

I forget the other parts of the presentation, but it was very well put together.

The only obnoxious part about it was the interviews with the people who had bought in - you couldn't pay me to spend time rubbing elbows in close quarters with these smug, "I own the world and am entitled to everything" attitude towards life.

gnukid - 5-21-2009 at 10:19 AM

This is "The World" its a boat for the ultra wealthy who own large cabins aboard and visit the boat as it travels around the world. I mentioned they were delayed due to the false flu scare.

Cabins are as large as 3000 sq feet and one might have 2 or 3 or 4 connected. There are about 8, 5 star restaurants on board. The cabin owners are rarely on board so most often only a handful of passengers exist to be maintained by a huge staff, generally 5 staff per person or more.

Due to the nature of the passengers, security etc... they don't like people to get on or off much. Guests must complete extensive review and background checks, its nonsense.

In reality its probably best they don't spend much time off the boat, you wouldn't like them anyway and they thankfully they won't be back for a long time, probably many many years. But they did want to visit Loreto and they did!

Woooosh - 5-21-2009 at 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
I watched this a few months ago.

According to the doc, the condo owners can decide/plan where the ship goes.

They conducted interviews with owners (one couple said they were running their business from the ship), an interior decorator (who did a truly amazingly beautiful job on the various condos he was hired to outfit.

But, the most interesting thing was the background interviews with the captain, the security force and the engineering people.

They claim to be terrorist proof (Mossad trained it was implied), and described the procedures in place to vet visitors.

They claim to be completely "green" They stated that all waste is recycled and only processed fresh water is released to the ocean.

I forget the other parts of the presentation, but it was very well put together.

The only obnoxious part about it was the interviews with the people who had bought in - you couldn't pay me to spend time rubbing elbows in close quarters with these smug, "I own the world and am entitled to everything" attitude towards life.

Luckily it's a problem most of won't have to worry about this lifetime. I do agree that it's not a beautiful ship- but arranging the deck layouts and units for privacy and maximum veranda space was probably their number one concern. Not a time-share though, these people really paid cash up front for total owership of their units. If you win the lottery- this is something to consider.

I do hope it is as green as they say it is- although burning through all that fuel certainly leaves them out of the "small carbon footprint" club.

flyfishinPam - 5-21-2009 at 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
So, unless cruise ships actually disembark passengers who are willing to spend lots of money on the locals, they have no business being in Loreto waters? :rolleyes:

So what if they are all rich? Didn't we all learn long ago that the "trickle-down" economic theory is flawed.

What was the ship purported to be doing wrong off the beach at Coronado?

geeze hook I luv ya but the roll eyes icon tells me that you do not get it. the impact this ship has on a protected fragile marine park is pretty severe. this coupled with the fact that this impact offers nothing to the owners of the area la nacion. there is no benefit to us. we cannot work the way we need to because they shut down the marina. the same marina that the Mexican government built as a gift to the town of Loreto. since then a new carpetbagging agency called APIBCS came in and took over the marina. now it no longer belongs to the city as it once did. why was it transfered and who approved it were the citizens involved in this decision?

i will not mention the fact that their presence is here while denying work to local providers of service who 1) pay for permits to operate in Mexican waters providing the service they do and 2) pay for and support through community service and training programs the right to operate in the marine park and do the activities specified in the park. one of those rules is to not drop anchor over reefs!

I am sorry you and others have a problem with that the way I do. I did not lose work over this I worked and just dealt with it. I didn't even know they moved to the island until my captains that came in mentioned it. Everyone fished until about 3:30-4pm it was a late bite. I have work but the cooperative pangueros were seen sitting around without work while a huge cruise ship was performing this service right in front of them. its truly insulting to them and to me.

Cypress - 5-21-2009 at 12:32 PM

Cruise ships have caused problems in Alaskan waters. There are lots of people onboard. They're floating hotels/casinos. There's a huge amount of wastewater created. How well is it treated? It's dumped somewhere. :?:

Hook - 5-21-2009 at 02:28 PM

So it's the boat OWNERS fault that the port captain decided to allow the vessel to dock, close the port and deny work to the locals? And it's the boat OWNERS fault that no representative of this much ballyhooed Marine Park responsible for policing ecological damage within it's boundaries came out to tell them this was not the place to anchor. You know, the park officials who charge everyone fees and then allow illegal netting, overfishing of YT during the spawning season. And, of course these sensitive anchoring areas are made public in documents they produce and make readily available, right?????

Pam, the reason I missed all these underlying intricacies is because YOU didnt mention them. You basically concluded the English portion of your rant with the statement,

"How the hell does having this ship help the economy of Loreto?"

You should be the last person who would make excuses for Mexican officials not doing THEIR job. You have lived with it for how many years now?

flyfishinPam - 5-21-2009 at 02:45 PM

Hook I am not blaming the owners and passengers of the cruise ship. All they did was ask and they were given permission. I am being read wrong with this interpretation. I DO fault the persons that made the decision to allow them to come as they did. We are constantly being told that the ships are important, they enhance the level of tourism in Loreto and stimulate its economy and this just isn't the case with most of the ships. I am not making excuses for any of these officials just the opposite.

I apologize for leaving out all the details but I don't have time to brief folks not from this area of every little one, maybe others from here can add. I was pointing out a source of frustration here and making others aware of it. Thanks to others I got more information than I had before. My rants will be in espanol now and they'll be more effective that way anyway. oao we are on the same side I think :?:

[Edited on 5-21-2009 by flyfishinPam]

Cypress - 5-21-2009 at 04:08 PM

Skeet/Loreto= site pest. :lol:

backninedan - 5-21-2009 at 04:14 PM

Yah Skeet, lets wait until fishing has gotten really crappy, then we can try to do something about it.

Don Alley - 5-21-2009 at 04:45 PM

Someday, someone is going to be injured trying to get on or off a small boat or panga because the docks are closed for the exclusive use of visiting cruise ships. Their presence in a "port" without the required, dedicated secure docks required by international regulations is dangerous.

You really have to see this to believe it. Two big floating docks, only one of which is used by the shuttles, yet both are closed, with guards running out keeping any small trailered boat from dropping someone off to get the truck and trailer, even if there are no shuttles in the marina. They are forced to disembark on the rocks or a small crowded "military" dock with little, if any, room.

Apparently, this is the last visitor of the season. The shade awing was removed today. It's a little amenity that exists just for the cruise ship people. :rolleyes:

So who they gonna sue?

Dave - 5-21-2009 at 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Alley
Someday, someone is going to be injured trying to get on or off a small boat or panga because the docks are closed for the exclusive use of visiting cruise ships.

Woooosh - 5-21-2009 at 06:21 PM

I'm told these Moussad Israeli security types can be very persuasive.

Hook - 5-22-2009 at 12:26 AM

We are on the same team, Pam. I just wanted to make sure you agreed where the blame lies for these cruise ships and their purported behavior.

Over here on the mainland, Guaymas has begun to court cruise ships. That one you mentioned in Loreto was supposed to dock at the new malecon area (it's really pretty nice) but the swine flu scare put the kibosh on that. Guaymas has even taken to rescheduling traditional festivals to correspond with planned cruise ship arrivals. The Calamari fest was scheduled for a month before this ship was supposed to arrive. When they learned about it's arrival, they rescheduled. Then along came swine flu and the ship left port and the festival is now in limbo. Squid season is virtually over now. WTF????

Most of us welcome the cruise ships over here because of the money it gets in the local mexicans pockets. Hey, it's not like it's a pristine environment over here with limited water and sewage systems. Guaymas has put in the infrastructure to handle them.

Loreto needs to do the same IF the community decides to continue to allow it.

I say "community" but didn't I hear that only monied interests were allowed to sit in on discussions about the future direction of the Marine Park? That no public individuals would be allowed in?

Sounds like it could be business as usual in the heralded Marine Park. Will it become the new fatted calf, now that Loreto Bay is virtually defunct?

[Edited on 5-22-2009 by Hook]

CaboRon - 5-22-2009 at 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Skeet/Loreto= site pest. :lol:

Yes, skeet thinks he is the high moral ground, what a load of BS :lol:

As to the ship ... the harbor master must have given clearance for the ship to enter .

Also there are several times I have not disembarked at a port as all that was for sale was overpriced junk ...

flyfishinPam - 5-22-2009 at 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
I say "community" but didn't I hear that only monied interests were allowed to sit in on discussions about the future direction of the Marine Park? That no public individuals would be allowed in?

Sounds like it could be business as usual in the heralded Marine Park. Will it become the new fatted calf, now that Loreto Bay is virtually defunct?

[Edited on 5-22-2009 by Hook]

Well I was mis-informed and then corrected during the sport fishing sector meeting. It is open to the public and Don was welcomed and will be next time. (june 10) Between me and Don we could scrape together at least $50 bucks so we've got the money part covered.

No, this time it will be different. It is already different. I could go on for a long time at how different it is now than when the last plans were decided upon. We're using the transparency laws and they're a beautiful thing. I hope that Guaymas, being ready for it, gets all the large cruise ships and resorts and we keep the smaller lower impact eco cruises and resorts. Our infrastructure wouldn't be overburdened and either would our population and its resources.

Gypsy Jan - 5-22-2009 at 03:50 PM

Is Mexico embracing Sarbanes Oxley?

If so, that would be a significant shift in the status quo.

And, a great positive guidance plan for the future for the bureaucracy.

flyfishinPam - 5-22-2009 at 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
Is Mexico embracing Sarbanes Oxley?

If so, that would be a significant shift in the status quo.

And, a great positive guidance plan for the future for the bureaucracy.

well since I didn't know what the hell this was I looked it up and found this in Espanol

http://www.gestiopolis.com/canales3/ger/oxley.htm

seems like the answer to your question is yes.

I think it called La ley de transperencia and applies to a wide range of issues political, public and private. Obviously needs some work here :lol:

but as far as Marine Park issues here and public hearings its looking pretty impressive.

one thing the Public hearing for the Puerto Escondido project, proposing $1.6 Billion to develop PE. I went to that meeting and it was obvious that Fonatur had no idea what they were up against. Like deer caught in headlights. They are being challenged and have to meet these challenges before they can proceed. Same for the Loreto Riviera Project. this is all new and only being exercised now.

Here's a bit of info for all you Baja lovers... did you know there are already permits approved for over 45 new golf courses in BCS? well there is but they're not built yet and they are being challenged. the people's voice is important they are in charge. we're educating them and our voices are coming together. I think we will have a major decision on how this place develops. AND people in other places will be watching and learning from our example.

[Edited on 5-22-2009 by flyfishinPam]

flyfishinPam - 5-22-2009 at 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Alley
Someday, someone is going to be injured trying to get on or off a small boat or panga because the docks are closed for the exclusive use of visiting cruise ships.

So who they gonna sue? :rolleyes:

I don't know about private boats mr roll eyes, but we carry insurance. Its a requirement to operate here.

[Edited on 5-22-2009 by flyfishinPam]

Bajahowodd - 5-22-2009 at 04:32 PM

Pam- As exorcised as you were about this ship, considering it has the world to travel, and very wealthy people aboard, chances are you might see that ship once a year, if ever again. The Holland America itinerary only runs for about four- five months a year, and, although you may feel slighted, the primary destination for that ship is Topolobampo, for a day long excursion into the Copper Canyon. They use Loreto, more as a convenient stop on the way.

flyfishinPam - 5-22-2009 at 04:38 PM

I already looked at their itinerary and through january 2011 it will be busy in other places. I know we may never see it again but I'm wondering what will be next.

rhintransit - 5-22-2009 at 07:22 PM

it's anchored off the north end of Danzante tonight (May 22) and, yes, it's UGLY. however I'm sure it's lovely inside.

Ford - 5-23-2009 at 07:55 AM

My parents went on this ship a few years ago....they got it for free cause my mom was selling one or something. My dad didn't care for it. He said you had to wear a sport coat everywhere and the people were so rich you couldnt really relate to them.
They said teh only cool thing was the units are equiped with a fancy fire system that allows the unit to have a kitchen and then you can buy meals to be cooked in your unit.

Bajahowodd - 5-23-2009 at 02:38 PM

Just wonder who, that could afford to be aboard, would even know how to cook? Or ever did.

Cypress - 5-23-2009 at 02:48 PM

There's nothing to do on these floating hotels except to to eat and poop. You can play shuffle board, dance, play bingo, and dink around with all of the above, but the bottom line is the same.