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flyfishinPam
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A Different Butt Ugly cruise ship visits Loreto
A different ship came to Loreto yesterday. It appeared larger than the Holland America Ryndam. It arrived later than we usually expect the ships and
it only stayed off Loreto for a few hours. Less than 100 people got off the ship and it was reported that there were only just over 110 passengers on
the entire ship!
After their stop in Loreto which only lasted a few hours, this grand ship then went to Isla Coronado and appeared to drop its anchor over our el bajo
reef! amazing it could get through that channel at all. Unfreakingbelieveable. Pangueros were furious and its understandable. I could see it off
Coronado from my house 6 miles away and it stayed there for several hours.
How the hell does having this ship help the economy of Loreto?
Here is an article on it:
http://www.radarpolitico.com/2009/05/17/arribara-el-crucero-...
they may not approve my comments on their story.
just in case here it is:
"Como ayudaba la economia de Loreto ayer este barco? El API cerreran el muelle para prevenir prestadores de servicios y marineros de su trabajo
normal? Tambien este barco solo estaba aqui en el puerto de Loreto para algunas horas y menos de cien personas desembararcan?? Despues este barco fue
por Isla Coronado y ponio su ancla en el bajo, un arrefece importante para ese area! Este accion quito trabajo de los pangueros que laboran en el mar
para su vida. Donde estaba el Parque Marino cuando ese barco paso horas en la isla??? MALO!"
[Edited on 5-21-2009 by flyfishinPam]
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CaboRon
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I haden't realized they had actually built this ship ....
A few years ago they were selling shares .....
You buy in like a condo ....
Here is there web site .....
http://www.residensea.com/
Interesting concept, however I didn't realize they would plow through sensitive areas.
This is a cruise that never stops .....
Now, let the games begin.
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BMG
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Interesting concept. Buy a moving condo. Or just rent a room for U$1700 - U$4700 per night. I doubt that they help many local economies very much when
they stop.
I think the world is run by C- students.
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Woooosh
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"The World" is an amazing ship becaue the of the concept, not the boat itself. It is an all condo, privately owned vessel. You need to be a
gazillionaire even to apply to buy one- they are mucho dinero and if you think your HOA is high- there's will knock your socks off (starting at $10K
per month). You buy the empty steel box and then totally make it your own. Because it's a boat with a lifespan- the units actually depreciate on a
schedule- so it's not really an investment.
The advantage of The World is that is isn't a commercial boat and isn't in a hurry to go anywhere. It wanders the globe from one A-Lister location
and event to another (I'm very surprised it isn't in Cannes right now) and docks for weeks not days at a time. The owners of the condos just fly
their private jets to where it is and hop on for days weeks or months. Very few owners stay on-board the whole time. Most owners don't ever rent
their units out- but some do.
The most intersting articles I have read about this boat are not about the boat itself, the individual owners or the insane units people create- it's
about the social interactions on board. Because some people rent their units there is an ongoing on-board snobberry between owners and renters. Not
that people who can pay $10,000 a day to rent one are dirtbags- they just aren't wealthy enough to trust or socailize with- let alone invite to dine
in their private dining rooms. Very intersting.
I'm not surprised many didn't get off and spend money. There might not be many people on-board. Evenwhen they are- these people get off and buy a
villa, antique or lamborghini and then hop back on- they aren't much into trinkets and I'm sure their private chefs keep them well fed.
Check out this unit for sale... http://www.aboardtheworld.com/ownership/residences-for-sale/...
[Edited on 5-21-2009 by Woooosh]
[Edited on 5-21-2009 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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vandenberg
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Ahhhh!!......the pitfalls of being rich.
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flyfishinPam
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Lovely thanks for the info. You know I was thining about the Cruise ships that visit Loreto. We have the Holland America msRyndam and the Cruise
West Endevour and the National Geographic Sea Eagle and one more small one from Cabo.
My experience with the Holland America ship is that it has 1500 passengers and they spend most of the day in town. some only a few go on side
excursions like San Javier, Whale watching, island trip to Coronado. Most stay on the ship or just come on land to stretch their legs. IMHO little
money is spent in the town itself at restaurants, gift shops etc. At least they do hire local boats to take them to coronado island and the San
Javier trip does offer employment for guides.
The NG ship has fewer passengers and doesn't come to Loreto very often. They are out at sea more as it is more of a naturalist cruise. When they
spend their day in town they probably drop more $$ in Loreto than the entire Ryndam.
The Cruise West ship I do have experience with. I worked as a guide for them doing whale watching, San Javier and city tours. The passengers are
VERY concerned and aware of stimulating the local economies of the ports they stop at. They are very interested in the local culture, fauna and
flora. I have had some actually taking notes on my tours who weren't reporters but amateur naturalists. These people spend a day in town and they
spend more $$ in one day than several Ryndam cruises.
Now this new ship is a floating timeshare? WOW enlightening. I would think that these people if they had this money would give a crap about the
local economies they spend their time in. Do we want a cruise ship like this in town? Think about the environmental impact alone a ship this size
has.
I gotta get back to work now but thank you for providing that link! This will be addressed at the next Marine Park planning meetings, and the next
Eco Alianza meeting. I would think the people of Loreto should have some say as to who their future tourist will be and what kind of an impact they
will have. Also word needs to be spread to these people as they likley don't even know these things.
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Hook
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So, unless cruise ships actually disembark passengers who are willing to spend lots of money on the locals, they have no business being in Loreto
waters?  So what if they are all rich? Didn't we all learn long ago
that the "trickle-down" economic theory is flawed.
What was the ship purported to be doing wrong off the beach at Coronado?
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Gypsy Jan
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Travel Channel Documentary on Residencesea
I watched this a few months ago.
According to the doc, the condo owners can decide/plan where the ship goes.
They conducted interviews with owners (one couple said they were running their business from the ship), an interior decorator (who did a truly
amazingly beautiful job on the various condos he was hired to outfit.
But, the most interesting thing was the background interviews with the captain, the security force and the engineering people.
They claim to be terrorist proof (Mossad trained it was implied), and described the procedures in place to vet visitors.
They claim to be completely "green" They stated that all waste is recycled and only processed fresh water is released to the ocean.
I forget the other parts of the presentation, but it was very well put together.
The only obnoxious part about it was the interviews with the people who had bought in - you couldn't pay me to spend time rubbing elbows in close
quarters with these smug, "I own the world and am entitled to everything" attitude towards life.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow mindedness.”
—Mark Twain
\"La vida es dura, el corazon es puro, y cantamos hasta la madrugada.” (Life is hard, the heart is pure and we sing until dawn.)
—Kirsty MacColl, Mambo de la Luna
\"Alea iacta est.\"
—Julius Caesar
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gnukid
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This is "The World" its a boat for the ultra wealthy who own large cabins aboard and visit the boat as it travels around the world. I mentioned they
were delayed due to the false flu scare.
Cabins are as large as 3000 sq feet and one might have 2 or 3 or 4 connected. There are about 8, 5 star restaurants on board. The cabin owners are
rarely on board so most often only a handful of passengers exist to be maintained by a huge staff, generally 5 staff per person or more.
Due to the nature of the passengers, security etc... they don't like people to get on or off much. Guests must complete extensive review and
background checks, its nonsense.
In reality its probably best they don't spend much time off the boat, you wouldn't like them anyway and they thankfully they won't be back for a long
time, probably many many years. But they did want to visit Loreto and they did!
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
I watched this a few months ago.
According to the doc, the condo owners can decide/plan where the ship goes.
They conducted interviews with owners (one couple said they were running their business from the ship), an interior decorator (who did a truly
amazingly beautiful job on the various condos he was hired to outfit.
But, the most interesting thing was the background interviews with the captain, the security force and the engineering people.
They claim to be terrorist proof (Mossad trained it was implied), and described the procedures in place to vet visitors.
They claim to be completely "green" They stated that all waste is recycled and only processed fresh water is released to the ocean.
I forget the other parts of the presentation, but it was very well put together.
The only obnoxious part about it was the interviews with the people who had bought in - you couldn't pay me to spend time rubbing elbows in close
quarters with these smug, "I own the world and am entitled to everything" attitude towards life. |
Luckily it's a problem most of won't have to worry about this lifetime. I do agree that it's not a beautiful ship- but arranging the deck layouts
and units for privacy and maximum veranda space was probably their number one concern. Not a time-share though, these people really paid cash up
front for total owership of their units. If you win the lottery- this is something to consider.
I do hope it is as green as they say it is- although burning through all that fuel certainly leaves them out of the "small carbon footprint" club.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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flyfishinPam
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
So, unless cruise ships actually disembark passengers who are willing to spend lots of money on the locals, they have no business being in Loreto
waters? So what if they are all rich? Didn't we all learn long ago
that the "trickle-down" economic theory is flawed.
What was the ship purported to be doing wrong off the beach at Coronado? |
geeze hook I luv ya but the roll eyes icon tells me that you do not get it. the impact this ship has on a protected fragile marine park is pretty
severe. this coupled with the fact that this impact offers nothing to the owners of the area la nacion. there is no benefit to us. we cannot work
the way we need to because they shut down the marina. the same marina that the Mexican government built as a gift to the town of Loreto. since then
a new carpetbagging agency called APIBCS came in and took over the marina. now it no longer belongs to the city as it once did. why was it
transfered and who approved it were the citizens involved in this decision?
i will not mention the fact that their presence is here while denying work to local providers of service who 1) pay for permits to operate in Mexican
waters providing the service they do and 2) pay for and support through community service and training programs the right to operate in the marine
park and do the activities specified in the park. one of those rules is to not drop anchor over reefs!
I am sorry you and others have a problem with that the way I do. I did not lose work over this I worked and just dealt with it. I didn't even know
they moved to the island until my captains that came in mentioned it. Everyone fished until about 3:30-4pm it was a late bite. I have work but the
cooperative pangueros were seen sitting around without work while a huge cruise ship was performing this service right in front of them. its truly
insulting to them and to me.
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Cypress
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Cruise ships have caused problems in Alaskan waters. There are lots of people onboard. They're floating hotels/casinos. There's a huge amount of
wastewater created. How well is it treated? It's dumped somewhere.
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Hook
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So it's the boat OWNERS fault that the port captain decided to allow the vessel to dock, close the port and deny work to the locals? And it's the boat
OWNERS fault that no representative of this much ballyhooed Marine Park responsible for policing ecological damage within it's boundaries came out to
tell them this was not the place to anchor. You know, the park officials who charge everyone fees and then allow illegal netting, overfishing of YT
during the spawning season. And, of course these sensitive anchoring areas are made public in documents they produce and make readily available,
right?????
Pam, the reason I missed all these underlying intricacies is because YOU didnt mention them. You basically concluded the English portion of your rant
with the statement,
"How the hell does having this ship help the economy of Loreto?"
You should be the last person who would make excuses for Mexican officials not doing THEIR job. You have lived with it for how many years now?
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flyfishinPam
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Hook I am not blaming the owners and passengers of the cruise ship. All they did was ask and they were given permission. I am being read wrong with
this interpretation. I DO fault the persons that made the decision to allow them to come as they did. We are constantly being told that the ships
are important, they enhance the level of tourism in Loreto and stimulate its economy and this just isn't the case with most of the ships. I am not
making excuses for any of these officials just the opposite.
I apologize for leaving out all the details but I don't have time to brief folks not from this area of every little one, maybe others from here can
add. I was pointing out a source of frustration here and making others aware of it. Thanks to others I got more information than I had before. My
rants will be in espanol now and they'll be more effective that way anyway. oao we are on the same side I think
[Edited on 5-21-2009 by flyfishinPam]
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Cypress
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Skeet/Loreto= site pest.
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backninedan
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Yah Skeet, lets wait until fishing has gotten really crappy, then we can try to do something about it.
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Don Alley
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Someday, someone is going to be injured trying to get on or off a small boat or panga because the docks are closed for the exclusive use of visiting
cruise ships. Their presence in a "port" without the required, dedicated secure docks required by international regulations is dangerous.
You really have to see this to believe it. Two big floating docks, only one of which is used by the shuttles, yet both are closed, with guards running
out keeping any small trailered boat from dropping someone off to get the truck and trailer, even if there are no shuttles in the marina. They are
forced to disembark on the rocks or a small crowded "military" dock with little, if any, room.
Apparently, this is the last visitor of the season. The shade awing was removed today. It's a little amenity that exists just for the cruise ship
people.
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Dave
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So who they gonna sue?
| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Alley
Someday, someone is going to be injured trying to get on or off a small boat or panga because the docks are closed for the exclusive use of visiting
cruise ships.
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Woooosh
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I'm told these Moussad Israeli security types can be very persuasive.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Hook
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We are on the same team, Pam. I just wanted to make sure you agreed where the blame lies for these cruise ships and their purported behavior.
Over here on the mainland, Guaymas has begun to court cruise ships. That one you mentioned in Loreto was supposed to dock at the new malecon area
(it's really pretty nice) but the swine flu scare put the kibosh on that. Guaymas has even taken to rescheduling traditional festivals to correspond
with planned cruise ship arrivals. The Calamari fest was scheduled for a month before this ship was supposed to arrive. When they learned about it's
arrival, they rescheduled. Then along came swine flu and the ship left port and the festival is now in limbo. Squid season is virtually over now.
WTF????
Most of us welcome the cruise ships over here because of the money it gets in the local mexicans pockets. Hey, it's not like it's a pristine
environment over here with limited water and sewage systems. Guaymas has put in the infrastructure to handle them.
Loreto needs to do the same IF the community decides to continue to allow it.
I say "community" but didn't I hear that only monied interests were allowed to sit in on discussions about the future direction of the Marine Park?
That no public individuals would be allowed in?
Sounds like it could be business as usual in the heralded Marine Park. Will it become the new fatted calf, now that Loreto Bay is virtually defunct?
[Edited on 5-22-2009 by Hook]
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