BajaNomad - Save Punta Banda: no golf course!

Save Punta Banda: no golf course!

flyfishinPam - 5-26-2009 at 04:00 PM

Dear Friends,

I have just read and signed the online petition:

"Save Punta Banda: no golf course!"

hosted on the web by PetitionOnline.com, the free online petition
service, at:

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/vivapb09/

I personally agree with what this petition says, and I think you might
agree, too. If you can spare a moment, please take a look, and consider
signing yourself.

Best wishes,

FFP

Bajahowodd - 5-26-2009 at 04:19 PM

OK. I'm number 1562 on the petition. Now, forgive my ignorance, but many of you folks living in the Punta Banda can help me out here. I remember reading the thread about his sometime back. But I am still not clear as to actually what land is involved in this project. I've spent weeks as a renter at Punta Banda, and have been out to La Buf more times than I can remember. Can anyone either describe it, or point me to a map. Gracias.

flyfishinPam - 5-26-2009 at 04:24 PM

here is the thread you're referring to:
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=34425

I have been in contact with moika from that thread as we're going through some of the same things here. its a team effort.

DENNIS - 5-26-2009 at 04:31 PM

Don't have a map but, after passing La Jolla Beach Camp on the way to la Buf, the road climbs for about three miles before it tops and begins the decent into the La Bufadora. At that hilltop on the right of the road facing north is a higher hill topped with lots of Telnor antennas. That hill, specifically the unseen north side is the location of Punta Brava.

Maybe someone will come along with a map. I just managed to get lost with my own directions.

Bajahowodd - 5-26-2009 at 04:33 PM

Thanks for the link, Pam. The only map posted was by David. It looks to me like the area involved actually already has private development. Am I wrong? As for your efforst in Loreto, I wish you the greatest success. IMHO, you have a much greater uphill battle since you are dealing with a Fonatur site. The whole idea was to develop, develop, develop. The good news is that for a number of reasons, Loreto has just not caught on. The only comparable site would be Huatulco. Probably took 20 years from inception of Los Cabos until it got over grown. Seems like once the weed takes root, there's no stopping it. Maybe you can find the right herbicide.

Bajahowodd - 5-26-2009 at 04:35 PM

Thanks, Dennis. I know where you describe. And it is beyond the currently developed area. But that really brings up another issue. There will have to be massive grading of this area to develop such a project. Or else, instead of golf carts, they'll need goats.

DENNIS - 5-26-2009 at 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Thanks, Dennis. I know where you describe. And it is beyond the currently developed area. But that really brings up another issue. There will have to be massive grading of this area to develop such a project. Or else, instead of golf carts, they'll need goats.

Yes....Massive is the word but, it's no problem money can't fix and these folks have plenty of that stuff.
I can't get David's link to open but, the developed [residential?] area you speak of is probably Rancho Packard.

Another way to describe the location would be, from Todos Santos Island looking south to the closest land, you would be looking right at Punta Brava.

fishbuck - 5-26-2009 at 06:06 PM

#1570

Seems like a lost cause.

mexipep - 5-26-2009 at 06:14 PM

Having just read up on the town of Loreto and the total lack of effort there to stop the terrible development,it seems a complete waste of time for a group of nonmexicans to petition the stop of a legal development in Punta Banda. Why is it if you americans do not fancy a development you seem to think that gives you the right to tell the Mexicans what to do with their land. Its rather obnoxious of you,dont you think.

805gregg - 5-26-2009 at 06:14 PM

Why not take up golf? If you walk it's great exercise.

mexipep - 5-26-2009 at 06:30 PM

It might even give some of the poor Mexicans jobs but that might not fit in with your protest. Keep it the same forever just for the Mexicans because the americans know better.

Punta Brava/Ensenada Map

bajadock - 5-26-2009 at 07:03 PM

rpleger - 5-26-2009 at 07:37 PM

Whats wrong with a golf course there. Won´t it raise property values in the area...What do you think is going to happen if they allow nonmexicans to own and develop property near the sea..Total development.

Punta Brava directions/location

Bronco - 5-26-2009 at 08:36 PM

From La Jolla camp toward La Bufadora past Rancho Packard a sign on the right reads-Lobera. The road took a couple of years to finish and is the best road in MX. There is a gate about 500 meters that was unlocked in the past but now is locked most of the time. If open, continue for a beautiful ride to the entrance of PB with a large gate that is now locked.

In the past I have hiked to the point, looking for the old Indian caves that are on the hill side. The Mexican people would hike out and fish off the rocks all the way to PB.
I have pics and will post tomorrow if I can find them.

This is a real tragedy IF it happens.

arrowhead - 5-26-2009 at 08:45 PM

Well, for mainly economic reasons, I don't think this project will ever get past the promotion stage. But anybody here who thinks that P-nche petition is going to do anything has no understanding of how things work in Mexico. Furthermore, why would they petition Tiger Woods? He has no equity in this deal. He is just being paid to design the golf course and lend his name. It was supposed to be desinged by Tom Fazio, until they decided to bring in Woods.

The Mexican approvals are already a done deal. For anyone who reads Spanish, check this out:

http://www.ensenada.net/noticias/?id=14789

The title of the article is, "Entrega Semarnat Punta Banda a gringos". That translates as "The Mexican federal environmental department delivers Punta Banda to the gringos."

The project has its federal approvals. Do you really think that a government that is incapable of creating enough jobs for its own people, a government that is looking at possibly million of Mexicans coming home from the US due to the economy, a government that believes tourism is a key cornerstone of its job creation programs, is going to stop Punta Brava?

Get real. :rolleyes:

[Edited on 5-27-2009 by arrowhead]

bajadock - 5-26-2009 at 08:59 PM

I'm getting my Jiffy Pop tin out for this one.

Fortunately, I don't care about my property value. The 3 mile distance from my little neighborhood to the development has a disconnection, even if you have an "all boats rise with the tide" kind of market viewpoint.

I recycle my household stuff. My recycling comes from a pragmatic efficiency of used stuff. However, saving the planet is not high on my list. If that is yours, I'm okay with you and yours.

Hope to learn more from a variety of intellects on this one. Plenty of "green" companies, manufacturing and developments get a pass because of good marketing and political connections. My guess is that the "green" labels will increase for a while to disguise other agendas.

Hey, I'm Irish. I like green. Just not in beer.

"Save Punta Banda: build the golf course!"

Dave - 5-27-2009 at 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyfishinPam
Dear Friends,

I have just read and signed the online petition:

"Save Punta Banda: no golf course!"

Just kidding.

Since I quit the golf habit I could care less if it were built...or not. Besides, only the very few rich and famous will ever see much less play the course. Them golf courses sure are purty, though. Would be a sight better that what's there.

I am, however, considering offering a petition to ban all fishing except as necessary for subsistence. You have your passions, I have mine. How about a trade? I'll sign your petition...You sign mine.

Bob and Susan - 5-27-2009 at 05:40 AM

i need to be educated too... :?:

what is wrong with a golf course at punta banta???

i really don't know...

BajaGringo - 5-27-2009 at 06:49 AM

Oh Dave, you play dirty....

:lol:

bajabound2005 - 5-27-2009 at 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
i need to be educated too... :?:

what is wrong with a golf course at punta banta???

i really don't know...

It's not so much a "golf course" that everyone is opposed to. It's the destruction of the environment to build and maintain the course and the homes around it. Like the minimum of 2 desal plants it will require.

This course will NOT be open to the public. The people who own there are expected to arrive via helicopter. We live on the property abutting the Punta Brava property -- we will never see Punta Brava except from afar.

Lots (just lots, no house on it) start at 3 million dollars.

True, Tiger has no $ tied up in this project. But his name is what is drawing people to it (and he claims he will own a home there). If Tiger backs out, the project will most certain fail.

BajaGringo - 5-27-2009 at 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabound2005
If Tiger backs out, the project will most certain fail.

Agreed...

wilderone - 5-27-2009 at 08:21 AM

"...gives you the right to tell the Mexicans what to do with their land. Its rather obnoxious of you,dont you think. "

It's not Mexicans that are planning to destroy Mexican archaeology, and Mexican ecology, and spoil Mexican open space; block access to the area to Mexicans, and create waste and pollution of all kinds. Norte Americanos and Canadians are the perpetrators. Why is it that Mexicans don't realize the treasures they have and try to protect them for themselves? Why do Mexicans allow this destruction to continue? Tell me.

Oh boy am I ready for Punta Brava

Bronco - 5-27-2009 at 08:33 AM

These ultra rich will need local goods and services. The Helo plans for delivering products to these folks cannot possibly provision them with their quality of life sustance. Inclimate weather will stop inbound and of course outbound Helo's, even the stroke victim that wants to get to UCSD with the rattlesnake bite golfer. Imagine the limo caravans at Pobalno's for tacos.
Or shopping in Los Globos for golf shoes and eating the world’s best fish tacos. Me, I have contacted Dean & Deluca for a franchise that I will have in Cantu. Stocked with Scottish Salmon, French pate and an assortment of fine liquors from around the world. We need to open our hearts and welcome these celebs and world famous. Of course I will be in my kayak, or boat sitting out front taking pictures, and making a bundle selling to the tabloids. Jen, Brad,Rush, Angelina and their kids.

[Edited on 5/27/2009 by Bronco]

[Edited on 5/27/2009 by Bronco]

flyfishinPam - 5-27-2009 at 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
"...gives you the right to tell the Mexicans what to do with their land. Its rather obnoxious of you,dont you think. "

It's not Mexicans that are planning to destroy Mexican archaeology, and Mexican ecology, and spoil Mexican open space; block access to the area to Mexicans, and create waste and pollution of all kinds. Norte Americanos and Canadians are the perpetrators. Why is it that Mexicans don't realize the treasures they have and try to protect them for themselves? Why do Mexicans allow this destruction to continue? Tell me.

Nancy Conroy assumes that all who post here are Americans. And she makes a lot of other assumptions as well, claiming again to know anything about Loreto, everything having to do with Mexico is negative, blah, blah, blah. Nancy, fulano, palmetto, DrEvil, DrEvil13, billybob and others who have been banned and the latest one ...mexipep are one in the same. Get a life girl. You have serious talent it is proven now put it to good use and stop wasting your time here. All that negative energy will backfire and you will be the victim not us in here. Take up yoga go on regular nature walks think good thoughts better yourself and be the best that you can be. Peace.

flyfishinPam - 5-27-2009 at 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabound2005
If Tiger backs out, the project will most certain fail.

Agreed...

then this is an excellent tactic. most bang for the buck so to speak and delivered directly to the source.

BajaGringo - 5-27-2009 at 09:25 AM

Most golfers I know are extremely superstitious. Tell Tiger that he will never catch Jack with the bad karma he will get...

:lol:

bajamigo - 5-27-2009 at 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
i need to be educated too... :?:

what is wrong with a golf course at punta banta???

i really don't know...

Nothing, unless you have to literally blow up a few square miles of pristine countryside, which also happens to be the site of several archeological treasures.

They have already constructed a desal plant, whose effluence has wrecked the mussel beds (or whatever they are) at the point. Great intro to the area.

We could give a crap about property values. We live right next door to the proposed "development," so our values will probably skyrocket or, hopefully, go into the toilet. Either case, we didn't settle here for speculative reasons; we're here to live and enjoy the beauty of Baja and its people, most of whom probably won't get a day's work out of the development.

Maybe it's all right to destroy an area which has lain virtually undisturbed for millions of years, to accommodate a golf course, an assault on the environment, that will have a shelf life of, what, 50 years? Don't think so.

flyfishinPam - 5-27-2009 at 09:52 AM

To the hotel owners in concepcion-

I am researching these topics anyway for some tours to be given in the fall.

Here's one interesting website on water usage of a golf course and the website is from Spring Branch, Texas. We too are in a drought prone area and any golf course here will use an exorbitant amount of water. This is only the water issue and does not mention the pollutants that will run off the courses and into the sea. In an area that cannot environmentally support green grass any grass that is planted even that fancy paspalum will be beyond its environmental tolerance limits and will need more maintenance, more water, more fertilizers, more pestacides, more herbacides...

if this information doesn't impact your decision on golf courses in the peninsula, then nothing will and if that is the case I certainly hope you get the golf course you wish for right next to your hotel. You ought to speak with the former owners of the two hotels in Ensenada Blanca to see what may be in your future.

From the page linked-

"In San Antonio, each time a golfer plays a round of golf it takes between 2200 and 3500 gallons of water to support his game based on golf course average water use.

In summer, a golfer uses 3400 to 5400 gallons per round when water use peaks and our annual drought occurs."

keeping in mind that this is an even more drought prone area than San Antonio, TX, even MORE WATER will be consumed by that golfers game.

http://hillcountrywater.org/GolfCourse.htm

according to a table in the article a family of four uses 540 gallons of water per day. this assumes the living standards are that of an average american who consumes much more than an average Mexican.

Forgot to Mention....

bajamigo - 5-27-2009 at 09:54 AM

The following excerpt from the "Punta Brava Fact Sheet" will give you an idea of the broad appeal this project will have. Prices do not include the cost of construction, which will start in the neighborhood of $3 million:

The Community: Punta Brava offers a range of ownership opportunities including:
40 estate sites ranging in size from .75 acres to 3 acres, priced between $3 million and $12 million.
18 villa residences (4,500 to 7,000 square feet)
60 partnership villas (4,500 to 6,500 square feet)
A private hotel with 20 villas, each has a private pool, available to owners and their guests.
A clubhouse; an ocean club; a wellness program and spa;
multiple dining venues
Residents will have access to all hotel services and amenities

Please note that RESIDENTS will have access to these amenities. They have made it quite clear that the great unwashed (you and me and the rest of the general public) are not invited.

[Edited on 5-27-2009 by bajamigo]

Dave - 5-27-2009 at 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajamigo
Nothing, unless you have to literally blow up a few square miles of pristine countryside, which also happens to be the site of several archeological treasures.

Don't know how else one would build a golf course...anywhere.

And the archeological treasures? Move 'em. Ever heard of Abu Simbel?

Including me in a thugs gallery.

mexipep - 5-27-2009 at 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyfishinPam

Quote:

Little Miss Pam me lass,

Whilst sitting here having me supper,noticed you included me in a rant against a bunch of posters. If you do not like me disagreeing with your latest pet project,tell me so in a direct way and please do not let a mid life hormone overload get the best of you.

I think golf courses should be built on all available land as there is no better game on the planet.
Now what if all the nature lovers decided they did not like you overfishing the Sea of Cortez and started a online petition to stop you and all the americans who come down and overfish your local waters. I would wager that none of your clients are Mexican so that means you and your american clients are stealing what really belongs to Mexicans. Its a little like the pot calling the kettle black dontchaknow.

It one thing to be wrong but to be a complete hypocrite is another thing altogether.

Perhaps you should start a catch and release only fishing policy if you want to have any credibility here missy.

bajamigo - 5-27-2009 at 10:02 AM

You're so right, Dave! This could happen in Mexico in the 21st century:

In 1959 an international donations campaign to save the monuments of Nubia began: the southernmost relics of this ancient human civilization were under threat from the rising waters of the Nile that were about to result from the construction of the Aswan High Dam.

The salvage of the Abu Simbel temples began in 1964, and cost some USD $40 million. Between 1964 and 1968, the entire site was cut into large blocks (up to 30 tons averaging 20 tons), dismantled and reassembled in a new location – 65 m higher and 200 m back from the river, in what many consider one of the greatest feats of archaeological engineering. Some structures were even saved from under the waters of Lake Nasser.

[Edited on 5-27-2009 by bajamigo]

flyfishinPam - 5-27-2009 at 10:06 AM

One thought is that the increasing restrictions to building in the USA, in states that have water issues such as California and much of the west have limited the ability of developers to place projects there. So there is more interest to develop in Mexico because they know (or think they know) that environmental laws are less restrictive and the business climate more favorable.

Dave - 5-27-2009 at 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyfishinPam
So there is more interest to develop in Mexico because they know (or think they know) that environmental laws are less restrictive and the business climate more favorable.

It isn't because enviornmental law is less restrictive. It's because, like all Mexican law, it can be flouted with impunity. And that, BTW, is exactly why Mexico's business climate is more favorable.

flyfishinPam - 5-27-2009 at 10:27 AM

you won't get an argument about this outta me Dave. but why do we have transparency laws now? i'm not complaining just the opposite but do the powers that be think that everyone in this country is so ignorant that these will be overlooked by us and not used against them? these are what we have on our side and there are a LOT if intelligent people studying and using them to their advantage here.

mexipep - 5-27-2009 at 10:28 AM

So what you are saying is that these online protests against an already approved development are as foolish as the fools that push them in the first place.

Dave - 5-27-2009 at 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyfishinPam
you won't get an argument about this outta me Dave. but why do we have transparency laws now? i'm not complaining just the opposite but do the powers that be think that everyone in this country is so ignorant that these will be overlooked by us and not used against them? these are what we have on our side and there are a LOT if intelligent people studying and using them to their advantage here.

Mexicans have been beat down for so long that transparency is a safe bet. Like a dog trained to a chain on a stake. Remove it and the dog stays.

And intelligence don't count for squat. It's money, power and corruption.

DENNIS - 5-27-2009 at 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajamigo
You're so right, Dave! This could happen in Mexico in the 21st century:

It's about time they started authenticating all that cave art anyway. All it takes is an airbrush and a little creativity and what do you get? A tourist attraction.

arrowhead - 5-27-2009 at 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajamigo
They have already constructed a desal plant, whose effluence has wrecked the mussel beds (or whatever they are) at the point. Great intro to the area.

Oh come on. They just got their federal environmental permits a few weeks ago. They have not built a desal plant. You say you live right next door and don't even know what they are doing? They aren't going to put the money into a desal plant until the project is almost totally presold. Besides, there is no need for it until they put in the golf course. You can't win an argument by just making up facts.

Facts here,just add water from the desal

mexipep - 5-27-2009 at 11:26 AM

Its a project which will bring some economic relief to an area that could use it. Those that are against it are using their own agendas imported from the US to oppose this golf course when its really none of their business for the most part except those that are now Mexican citizens.
Give me a 10:15 am tee time if you would and use a little turpentine to clean that graffiti out of those caves.

DENNIS - 5-27-2009 at 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

Oh come on. They just got their federal environmental permits a few weeks ago. They have not built a desal plant. You say you live right next door and don't even know what they are doing? They aren't going to put the money into a desal plant until the project is almost totally presold. Besides, there is no need for it until they put in the golf course. You can't win an argument by just making up facts.

Wrong. They [?] have built a desal plant. The question mark is "Who be They?" A lot of work was done out there before the word got out about the current development. I'm not sure the progress to date was done by the Woods group.
I would question the reported damage done by the plant as there's no reason to have it operating yet, other than construction and I don't see that happening now.
Damage to anything out there could be attributed to the fish pens and all the waste dropped on the ocean floor under them. They say the floor looks like the moon, devoid of anything alive.

bajabound2005 - 5-27-2009 at 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mexipep
Give me a 10:15 am tee time if you would and use a little turpentine to clean that graffiti out of those caves.

Mexipep - even if the course is built, trust me, you'll never get to see it, let alone play it.

Bajahowodd - 5-27-2009 at 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mexipep
Its a project which will bring some economic relief to an area that could use it. Those that are against it are using their own agendas imported from the US to oppose this golf course when its really none of their business for the most part except those that are now Mexican citizens.
Give me a 10:15 am tee time if you would and use a little turpentine to clean that graffiti out of those caves.

I didn't realize that we were having an argument. Thought it was a discussion. Your choice of terms speaks volumes.

DENNIS - 5-27-2009 at 03:23 PM

TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC

Bajahowodd - 5-27-2009 at 03:42 PM

Ka-BOOM?

DanO - 5-27-2009 at 03:45 PM

I have something that might be useful, let's see . . . where did I put it . . . ahh, here it is:

images.jpg - 3kB

Bajahowodd - 5-27-2009 at 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabound2005
If Tiger backs out, the project will most certain fail.

Agreed...

Now that's exactly why I signed the petition. There's no question that in the short run, many jobs will be created for Mexicans during the construction phase. But way fewer jobs after the project is completed. And by that time, this project offers almost no boost to the local economy. OK, there will be those out there who will raise the supplies and provisioning aspect. However, as this is envisioned as a really high-end project, I would guess that most of the supplies, at least where human consumption is involved, will be imported.

DENNIS - 5-27-2009 at 04:03 PM

Has anybody heard why the Woods project in Dubai was put on hold?

DENNIS - 5-27-2009 at 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Ka-BOOM?

Actually, it was meant to go along with this that I put up yesterday:
---------------------
DENNIS

Select Nomad

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posts: 7200
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Online

posted on 5-26-2009 at 03:46 PM

TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TICTIC TIC TIC TICTIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TICTIC TIC TIC TIC

It's only a matter of time...TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TICTIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TIC TICTIC TIC TIC
----------------------------------------------------------

I like your rendition better. :lol:

tripledigitken - 5-27-2009 at 04:10 PM

Even the billionaires are pulling it in. The worldwide recession is impacting even the most well healed.

Punta Brava, I wouldn't bet a carna taco lunch that it will see the light of day.

Ken

DENNIS - 5-27-2009 at 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
Even the billionaires are pulling it in. The worldwide recession is impacting even the most well healed.

Punta Brava, I wouldn't bet a carna taco lunch that it will see the light of day.

Ken

As much as it hurts to say it....you're on.

Bajahowodd - 5-27-2009 at 04:17 PM

Depends on where.

DENNIS - 5-27-2009 at 04:19 PM

If Ken wins, he has to come to my beach house ....in Peru.

tripledigitken - 5-27-2009 at 04:25 PM

Peru? No problem. Isn't that where you can get the Inca Cola?

Ken

Bajahowodd - 5-27-2009 at 04:26 PM

Geez. I thought you were going to have him over to Sharkey's.

DENNIS - 5-27-2009 at 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Geez. I thought you were going to have him over to Sharkey's.

That's more reasonable. Everybody's invited.

tripledigitken - 5-27-2009 at 04:30 PM

I hope they have ADA ramps at Sharkey's because we will need the access by the time that project gets off the ground.

Ken

Bajahowodd - 5-27-2009 at 04:32 PM

Everybody? Dennis, I know you're a veteran of the area, and Sharkey's is a fine watering hole. But we were a group of five last summer for dinner, and several of our party were feeding the food to the cats. How anyone could make inedible fish tacos still astounds me. Not that everyone ordered the same.

DENNIS - 5-27-2009 at 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Everybody? Dennis, I know you're a veteran of the area, and Sharkey's is a fine watering hole. But we were a group of five last summer for dinner, and several of our party were feeding the food to the cats. How anyone could make inedible fish tacos still astounds me. Not that everyone ordered the same.

Why are you ordering fish tacos in a restaurant? Look what Rubio's does to them.....BLECH. You should be getting them from a stand that serves nothing else.
Anyway, their food is usually good. Sorry you had a bad time. [Did the cats live?]

Bajahowodd - 5-27-2009 at 05:17 PM

One order of fish tacos. Four orders of chateaubriand. You'll have to ask the owner. :spingrin:

[Edited on 5-28-2009 by Bajahowodd]

bajabound2005 - 5-27-2009 at 05:37 PM

Hey, Dennis, that reminds me. Tell Sharkey's to include the prices on their specials when they post them on puntabandanewsletter!

Fish Tacos at Sharkey's? Are those even on the menu? You want good fish tacos in our neck of the woods, go to Lupita's by the Ramos Albercas just west of the Y turnoff to Bufadora from Mex 1. Truly outstanding.

DENNIS - 5-27-2009 at 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
One order of fish tacos. Four orders of chateaubriand. You'll have to ask the owner. :spingrin:

[Edited on 5-28-2009 by Bajahowodd]

Chateaubriand? At Sharky's? Oh Lord....I'll have to look into this. It shatters all of my core beliefs about the joint.
Chateaubriand...........Are you sure?

DENNIS - 5-27-2009 at 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabound2005
Hey, Dennis, that reminds me. Tell Sharkey's to include the prices on their specials when they post them on puntabandanewsletter!

OK....if I see them before you do. To tell you the truth, I haven't been going in there much lately.

No laughing from the Peanut Gallery, please. :saint:

wilderone - 5-28-2009 at 09:10 AM

I wasn't aware that the Wood Dubai golf course was put on hold. I read yesterday in an article dated March 2009 that they just put grass on 3 holes. The grass came from Atlanta. They're importing something like 16,000 trees, and it will take 4 millions gallons of water a day to water this golf course. There will only be 200 memberships. I read a very interesting article - probably can find it yourself - written in the Independent (UK I think), about how Dubai was built by slaves living in squalid conditions, and all the residences there have maids who are treated very poorly. All the workers have their passports taken when they arrive, and by contract, they can't leave Dubai until their "debt" is paid (they essentially paid for the job, and then after being promised a certain salary and place to live, it doesn't happen and you're stuck and can't leave.). If you owe a debt you go to prison. I know this is getting off-track, but it was a real eye-opener. There is no natural water in Dubai - it's all from desal plants and all privately funded. It could all dry up in a moment -including Tiger Woods' golf course - if the water situation fell apart (money, money, money to keep it viable).

DENNIS - 5-28-2009 at 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
I wasn't aware that the Wood Dubai golf course was put on hold.

My info was nebulous. The source was a friend of a friend who lives there. Who knows. Truth suffers in that part of the world.

Bajahowodd - 5-28-2009 at 10:31 AM

Of course I was kidding about the chateaubriand!

DENNIS - 5-28-2009 at 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Of course I was kidding about the chateaubriand!

Well, I guess I can put my tuxedo back in the bag.

Cypress - 5-28-2009 at 01:39 PM

chateaubriand? :?:

Sounds sorta like a French libation.

Dubia? Isn't that over in the neighborhood of Saudi Arabia? :?:

DENNIS - 5-28-2009 at 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
chateaubriand? :?:

Sounds sorta like a French libation.

Dubia? Isn't that over in the neighborhood of Saudi Arabia? :?:

Chateaubriand is the tenderloin of a beef critter, usually cooked for two diners.

Dubai is definitly part of the Middle East. Rich beyond belief. Good thing is, they arn't antagonistic toward the U.S. Not today anyway.

Cypress - 5-28-2009 at 02:05 PM

Dennis, Thanks.

Chateaubriand is more appetizing now that I know what it is.

fernando - 5-29-2009 at 09:57 PM

hi
I havent read all of the posts as its gotten quite long and probably for the same resaon mine is not read as well.

I have followed this project closely and im supportive of it. To start with it will be develpped on an area which in the ordainance map is set for developement. They have done all of the requirements imposed by the environmental agency including a museum with the so said archaeologic artifacts' and are will ing to do things right. In terms of the developement so far they are using local labor as much as possible and they are also especting the fauna.

Anyway this is my point of view and sincerely i dont think it will impact the ecosistem significantly

Fernando

bajamigo - 5-29-2009 at 10:08 PM

Quote:

Anyway this is my point of view and sincerely i dont think it will impact the ecosistem significantly

Fernando

Fernando, take a look at an aerial view of the site as it is today (there are several websites with pictures, or Google Earth). Then imagine what it will look like after the application of several tons of dynamite and many hours of bulldozing and the introduction of grass to replace the lost flora, so that it will be nice and flat to accommodate 9000 yards of fairway. Now, please, explain how this won't affect the ecosystem significantly. Thanks.

[Edited on 5-30-2009 by bajamigo]

fishbuck - 5-29-2009 at 10:42 PM

It won't affect the ecosystem just like all the other Ensenada developement hasn't affected the ecosystem.
And for a few low paying jobs?

[Edited on 5-30-2009 by fishbuck]

fishbuck - 5-30-2009 at 02:29 AM

I love Estero Beach Resort. But if you have ever stayed there you know that the water in front is dirty and polluted. It's haertbreaking because it is such a beautiful spot.
I am afraid to swim there. And it's not the resort's fault. It's from all the developement near by.
This planned golf resort is a long way from town. But they will need many servants for all the rich people. And my guess is that they will live just outside the resort in a shanty town. And I don't think it will be as clean and green as the resort claims it will be. Just what Ensenada needs, another shanty town. Out on pristine oceanfront.

[Edited on 5-30-2009 by fishbuck]

DENNIS - 5-30-2009 at 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck
many servants for all the rich people. And my guess is that they will live just outside the resort in a shanty town.

Oh Lord....my property value just dropped thirty percent.

BajaGringo - 5-30-2009 at 05:46 AM

Dennis, you could rent out rooms!

Bajahowodd - 5-30-2009 at 02:08 PM

Den's Dorms. I like it!

DENNIS - 5-30-2009 at 04:10 PM

Stop it. I'm getting ill.

Bajahowodd - 5-30-2009 at 05:28 PM

Just think about the cash flow!

DENNIS - 5-30-2009 at 05:30 PM

When "flow" comes to mind, I've eaten at the wrong place.

Fred-o - 5-30-2009 at 05:59 PM

Trip report to view Punta Brava: I live near Dennis, and I took a trip up there two weeks ago. When I say "UP" I mean to the top of the mountain overlooking the proposed project.

The entry fee is 30 pesos collected by the Ejido I asume. Again, take the Bufadora road and exit at "Casablanca", ironically, a bright orange building on your right. About a mile past the Lobera exit sign.

Be sure to have 4 Wheel drive and pretty high clearance. I used my Jeep Grand Cherokee.

When you get to the top, it's a super 360 view, and you can look down on the "project". The "de-sal" plant looks quite small, and not in use. Obviously not the capacity needed for a project this size. Especially a golf course, and 100 family homes/condos.

The huge antennas and other views (Todos Santos Islands) make this an exciting, quick, field trip. Go on a nice day and enjoy. You can even take the "Before" picture if you wish.

Personal opinion: I don't think they are going to make it fly. Just my 2 centavos.

DENNIS - 5-30-2009 at 09:27 PM

Thanks Fred....Hope you're right about that.

tripledigitken - 5-30-2009 at 11:03 PM

So do I!

Excellent investigative work-Fredo

Bronco - 5-31-2009 at 06:04 AM

All the BS reports, speculative and hypothetical theory’s cannot trump (hate that word) your empirical observation.

Hook - 5-31-2009 at 07:53 AM

Ought to be a mite nippy up there about 8 months out of the year, no?

Maybe they are going for the Scotland feel..........

DENNIS - 5-31-2009 at 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
Ought to be a mite nippy up there about 8 months out of the year, no?

Maybe they are going for the Scotland feel..........

I believe they're modeling the project after Pebble Beach. They're studies have mentioned the similarity in climate and the fact that it doesn't hinder desirability on the golf course or inside of three million dollar condos.
I'll never even know what they're talking about.

bajabum - 6-4-2009 at 12:28 PM

I was out fishing along the coast out to the point last weekend. They have all the greens, cart paths and Tees numbered and marked with different color poles and a very steep probably unusable boat ramp built. Im guessing that is as far as they will get on this project and years from now people will be asking what are all those rusty colored poles for! They are just testing the waters at this point looking for foolish investors, there is no serious money behind this. The Escalara has a better chance of being finished than this golf course.

BajaGringo - 6-4-2009 at 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabum
I was out fishing along the coast out to the point last weekend. They have all the greens, cart paths and Tees numbered and marked with different color poles and a very steep probably unusable boat ramp built. Im guessing that is as far as they will get on this project and years from now people will be asking what are all those rusty colored poles for! They are just testing the waters at this point looking for foolish investors, there is no serious money behind this. The Escalara has a better chance of being finished than this golf course.

Here are the "poles":
(If you copy and paste either of these photos you can see them in larger size/greater detail)

Here is the boat ramp and the desal plant up above it:

[Edited on 6-4-2009 by BajaGringo]

DENNIS - 6-4-2009 at 06:00 PM

Thanks, Ron....I haven't seen the ramp till your pictures...only heard about it. It looks like a ride at Magic Mountain. Good luck with that.
I said in an earlier post that I wasn't sure the development to this point was done by the Woods group and given the hype in the news today of unlimited funds and expertise, along with the failed attempt at the ramp, I'm sure it wasn't. This project has had a quiet aspect to it from day one but, I think we're seeing evidence of different planners, different projects.

DanO - 6-4-2009 at 06:25 PM

That boat ramp would be awesome on one of those plastic snow saucers. Maybe grease the bottom up a little bit, and then let 'er rip.

bajamigo - 6-4-2009 at 09:26 PM

A friend of mine who does a lot of fishing around the point said this about the boat ramp:

The ramp is very, very steep, so I think a 4-wheel drive might be a must. Also, it is not completely protected from the surf or surge of the ocean. Some days it is fine, other days it could be very dangerous (as are most of the "ramps" down here). I am curious if it will be open to the public or just members of the Punta Brava group. My guess is that is will be private. There is no dock or pier, so after launching a boat it will take 2-3 people to hold a boat while another person takes the towing vehicle back up the ramp and walks back down, which will take at least 5-10 minutes.

fernando - 6-4-2009 at 09:59 PM

from what i know that boat ramp is older than the punta Brava project

BajaGringo - 6-4-2009 at 11:36 PM

The boat ramp pictured along with the desalination plant are scheduled to be removed if the project goes forward. They were both built by the previous property owner who had his own plans for developing the property. Neither one fits into the plans of the current development either for size / location I guess.

wilderone - 6-5-2009 at 10:03 AM

I am totally unimpressed with these residences. A residence like this would only cost about $300,000 to build in the US. And is that a swimming pool set in a bridge-like thing between two rock pillars? They're not going to create the golf course first, without substantial residence sales. I dunno. How big of an ego does it take to make one separate himself from this kind of money for a "private club" and a possible, slim chance of a glimpse of Tiger Wood? Cuz that's all that's offered that you can't get from hundreds of other private golf resorts around the world that cost a lot less and offer a lot more. Model doesn't show a marina, boat ramp, beach. Hardly any resale value until it's totally built out and that may be never. And the surrounding community has even less appeal. Gotta be a real Tiger Woods groupie for this.

http://www.archpaper.com/e-board_rev.asp?News_ID=3326

Would make a nice campground with a panga fishing concession. Put in a nice swimming pool, some solar power, a little fish taco restaurant.

BajaGringo - 6-5-2009 at 10:26 AM

No argument from me based on logic wilderone. It's just that the very elite seem to be totally enchanted with Tiger and why so many of them fork up the equivalent value of several Nomads homes just to be able to play a single round of golf with him in a charity / pro-am event. He has an appeal on such a high level that is hard for us working stiffs to be able to comprehend, and on which the developers are betting. I read somewhere that the deep pockets on this would only invest if Tiger remained onboard. Apparently most of his payout on this will come off the backend, when the project is built out. It wasn't structured like Trumps deal where he got almost all of the cash up front.

Who knows? Time will tell. At least I got to hit a couple of golf balls from the dirt to what will/would be the 17th green...