BajaNomad - Seiners off Mulége

Seiners off Mulége

Russ - 6-2-2009 at 06:36 PM

For the last several weeks between 5 & 8 seiners have been working off the islands at Punta Chivato. I've been asking for some good pics of them from fishermen here but to no avail. How about some of you Mulége fishermen? I see at least 4 heading into the Bay everyday. I can't tell if they are making sets or just moving around. Here's the best I can do with my telephoto (500 & x2) but it's around 8 miles away.

Seiner off Mulége.jpg - 46kB

Pescador - 6-2-2009 at 07:10 PM

We have the same thing here in the Craig channel between San Lucas Cove and Isla San Marcos but most are here to get the sardinas. There are several new boats from Guaymas that are squid boats that work all night on the squid grounds until they load up with 30 tonneladas and then they head back to Guaymas. The locals would love to torpedo them. Maybe we can get Greenpeace or some other wacko orginization to buy us some blackmarket torpedos and we could sink a few of these guys.

Russ - 6-2-2009 at 07:23 PM

That would work. More bottom habitat. Greenpeez may come if we call them whalers?

Joelt - 6-2-2009 at 07:23 PM

Are they still there? A week ago Monday I was fishing out of Punta Chivato and they had moved up toward San Marcos island. I thought they must have cleaned out the area and were moving on. They sure can wipe out an area. Earlier in the month while we were out fishing we usually would see 2 of the seiners leaving toward the mainland and 2 heading back to the other boats. 2 boat loads a day. Thats a lot of fish. I wonder what they are doing with the all the fish. Pet food? Suprised the fishing was so good.

rpleger - 6-3-2009 at 08:10 AM

¿Who do we complain to and how? They sure f***up the fishing...

flyfishinPam - 6-3-2009 at 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rpleger
¿Who do we complain to and how? They sure f***up the fishing...

CONAPESCA will be setting up a program where each boat will have to have a data chip inside of it. The new rule is called "ordenamiento pesquero". They have been setting this up in La Paz and Los Cabos and they still need to do Commundu, Loreto and Mulege municipios. Throughout BCS waters, all boats will need to have them. I do not have all details but here in Loreto we will request the chips be for boats that traverse State lines to fish, not local boats. Or perhaps commercial only...up in the air. We know that most of the boats doing the most extraction are from the mainland. BCS wants to enforce the 50 mile zone again and I believe this is part of the study and enforcement.

So complain to me via U2U with the following details:

Date of suspected violation
Place, number of KM off the shoreline
Description of activity
Description of boat, how many feet, color, name, ID numbers
Add any photos and comments for further proof

Your report will be anonymous

Here my main focus is the Loreto Area but I think any and all reports should be logged. We will send your reports to all of the agencies concerned with this. I wish I could do more but that's the best I can do.

I do not think that the 50 mile limit is in effect yet so remember NOM 029 which lifted this restriction on boats. Boats under a certain length (I don't remember exactly) can fish within 10 miles of the shoreline while larger boats must remain only 15 miles from shore. And technically you're not allowed to be within 250 meters of a commercial boat that's fishing.

shari - 6-4-2009 at 09:11 AM

Pam....does this restriction apply to sardine boats? Sometimes they come here and work very close to shore. It would be helpful to know is the purse seiners are under or over the size limit...

Pescador - 6-4-2009 at 11:21 AM

I agree, it would be great to get some kind of clarification about where they are supposed to be and not supposed to be. I would be happy to be an extra pair of eyes and take pictures as well as provide GPS coordinates, but it would be great to have the straight information about what is allowed and what it not.
I contantly hear things like it is illegal to put gill nets out in the caleta at San Lucas, but when I mentioned it to PESCA, they seemed to think that it was totally allowed. I think the only reason we don't get too many longlines close to shore in this area is only because there is so much boat traffic that they end up with cut lines which has to be pretty expensive. (Especially when the irate boat driver cuts things in so many pieces). But the rules seem to be more of a moving target than one would think.

Russ - 6-4-2009 at 12:07 PM

"moving target" I like that term. It kinda fits all of officialdom (or officialbumb) down here.

Russ - 6-4-2009 at 01:00 PM

Not a seiner in sight! But then this guy goes flying by. Santa Inez light in the background.

Navy 6:4:09.jpg - 48kB

Cypress - 6-4-2009 at 01:16 PM

They're heading for Santa Rosalia. :biggrin:

Gonna have some fun tonight. :lol:

Pescador - 6-4-2009 at 01:28 PM

No that is the military boat that has been checking permits, licenses, and all that other stuff. I think someone said there was a white boat on the north end of San Marcos Island catching entirely way too many fish.

Cypress - 6-4-2009 at 01:38 PM

Catching way too many fish? :?:

Sports fisherman? Commercial? It wasn't an aluminum boat made in Australia by any chance?

mulegemichael - 6-4-2009 at 02:49 PM

we counted 13 seiners when we went out of mulege this morning...by catch floating everywhere!...just a shame!...russ, i'll try to get some boat numbers on my camera tomorrow...we did get into the fish tho...wow...way south..wow1

Russ - 6-4-2009 at 03:24 PM

mulegemichael, Pass the word to take pics. If you can line the pic up with your GPS even better.

Seiner & GPS.jpg - 46kB

Russ - 6-4-2009 at 03:29 PM

or

Seiner & GPS~2.jpg - 45kB

Von - 6-4-2009 at 03:44 PM

I hate those boats! striping the ocean away........................There be nathing left for my grandchildren to fish............

Geo_Skip - 6-4-2009 at 08:52 PM

Russ and others...If you want to diss the Ocean Activists,, do you really expect them to rush to your aid?

Ocean activism is a tough lifestyle, requires living poor, fund raising constantly and constant harassment from governments (representing the business interests against them) and well funded businesses. Anyway, Greenpeace is just a video making group. If you want to ask for real help...be expected to offer REAL support or you will get no answer. These groups have a dozed crises a day on their table.

Then, if you are committed, contact Sea Shepard. They are the Ocean Activists who do the REAL HEAVY LIFTING! If you want to change something...do you want to just be used by a Greenpeace group for a new fundraiser video...or do you want actual action?

This is a serious decision... doing the job right against any government and it's protected business is a serious, long term commitment of time and money. Many of your freedoms will be at risk (In the USA as well as any other country).

Please do not be casual and flippant about Calling On A volunteer, private contribution funded activist group to come save your ass...unless you are equally willing to play/pay your part.

flyfishinPam - 6-5-2009 at 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
Pam....does this restriction apply to sardine boats? Sometimes they come here and work very close to shore. It would be helpful to know is the purse seiners are under or over the size limit...

I'm not sure if your're part of Mag Bay but there's a 20 mile restriction for the Pacific coast off Mag Bay due to the whale reproductive cycle. Later this morning Ill dig out the shark norma and look at the sizes of boats and their mile limits from the coastline. This is for boats with shark permits likely sardine permitted boats have other rules we'll also need to look those up.

flyfishinPam - 6-5-2009 at 05:40 AM

I've never heard of sea shepard do they operate in Mexico?

Russ - 6-5-2009 at 05:58 AM

Geo_Skip, Your knowledge about "Ocean Activists" is commendable. And my ignorance shines brightly. However my lack of information/knowledge does not make me any less concerned about my small area of the SOC or the SOC as a whole. I am not an activist nor fund raiser for any of the causes that I may have strong opinions about. So, though my remarks are "causal and flippant" they are more from frustration than an attack on those passionate, aggressive activist who make or will make, I hope, a change for a healthy SOC.

"Please do not be casual and flippant about Calling On A volunteer, private contribution funded activist group to come save your burro...unless you are equally willing to play/pay your part."

It is not my burro that is in need of salvation but the whole SOC. I have contacted and sent contributions, many times without any response, to Sea Shepard and others. Their lack of response is part of my frustration. Pam in Loreto Has responded and I will continue to help in my small way to the organizations she is part of. I do appreciate your response to this post and hope that with your knowledge of activist groups you will continue to educate and inform us as to the happenings concerning the SOC. ~~Russ~~

Pescador - 6-5-2009 at 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Geo_Skip
Russ and others...If you want to diss the Ocean Activists,, do you really expect them to rush to your aid?

Ocean activism is a tough lifestyle, requires living poor, fund raising constantly and constant harassment from governments (representing the business interests against them) and well funded businesses. Anyway, Greenpeace is just a video making group. If you want to ask for real help...be expected to offer REAL support or you will get no answer. These groups have a dozed crises a day on their table.

Then, if you are committed, contact Sea Shepard. They are the Ocean Activists who do the REAL HEAVY LIFTING! If you want to change something...do you want to just be used by a Greenpeace group for a new fundraiser video...or do you want actual action?

This is a serious decision... doing the job right against any government and it's protected business is a serious, long term commitment of time and money. Many of your freedoms will be at risk (In the USA as well as any other country).

Please do not be casual and flippant about Calling On A volunteer, private contribution funded activist group to come save your burro...unless you are equally willing to play/pay your part.

Well, my knowledge of ocean activists is not lacking and in fact I have set through a lot of meetings with Greenpeace and Sea Shepard. And after setting through most of the meetings I continue, by choice, to dis the goings on of most of those groups. Most are philosophically about the same place as PETA and operate completely out of an emotional basis that is very seldom grounded in fact. Sea Shepard would go out commando style and pull up longlines and shred all of the equipment they found even though the fishermen who had set them were totally legal and operating under the set of laws that they were given to function under. I absolutely abhor the use of long lines or big purse seines that kill indiscriminately and destroy everything in their path, but I also believe that there are ways in the system to allow for proper change and disallowance of these destructive methods.
Lets compard Sea Shepard's method of destroying all long lines found, stealing nets in the middle of the night, disrupting people who are going about their job as best they know how with The Billfish Foundation. Right now, The Billfish Foundation is actively involved with the government of Mexico, by legal and responsible channels, and it looks like this Sept. or Oct. that they will not only get Shark Norma overturned, but that they will have made Dorado and all Billfish legally obtainable only by a sport fishing license in all waters of Mexico. They accomplished this with reason, actual research, and economic impact studies as compared to adolescent rantings, demonstrations, and willfull destruction.
I have set down with Governor Agundez and had a meaningful discussion and I think that the wheels are slowly begining to turn but I also think it will be a slow process. Secondly, I think that the main movement must, of necessity, begin with the Mexican people and not a handful of Norteamericanos who tend to want things differently. This last impact of the swine flu scare coupled with the violence scare has caused the local fishermen who rely on tourist dollars the come to some realization that their business is more directly tied to tourist dollars than they had realized.

flyfishinPam - 6-5-2009 at 09:29 AM

I agree here. We must work in accordance with the law. Remember you cannot approach a working commercial vessel less than 250 meters. I do not agree with cutting nets and longlines. The commercials have their permits and if they are valid they are operating within the law. I never heard of sea shepard but if they violate the law in order to further their agenda then I do not support them.

What pescador says about fishermen realizing the power to tourist dollars has become reality here too. The politicos are also taking notice and for whatever reason they are trying to organize and making lots of promises to them. I am suspicious because I base their promises on their past performances. IMHO for lack of inversionistas and mordidas, perhaps, they [politicos] are now turning to the people they're supposed to be working for.

Martyman - 6-5-2009 at 10:09 AM

Thank you Russ, Pescador and Pam for your attention and thoughts to these matters! Very insightful.
Marty

Sharksbaja - 6-5-2009 at 11:56 AM

Kudos to you who see thru the over-the-top organisations. While distructive acts turn heads they don't do squat to address the pertinent issues and seek resultant solutions.
Russ has good right to worry tho, the seiners/draggers play cat and mouse in the Bay of Concepcion. An area off-limits to commercials. The know exactly when the military boats are around. They probably use the same sources that ramuba and Narc uses. :lol:

Seriously, if they ARE breaking laws I don't think it's irresposible to investigate and perhaps document and turn em in. I think that is responsible stewardship.

Do we even know if there IS any law being broken by the commercials? That is other than the breaking of the back of the Sea of Cortes.

Pescador - 6-6-2009 at 11:34 AM

Ok, Russ got my curiosity up so I stopped by to see Martin at the PESCA office in Santa Rosalia and his information was that the sardine seiners are totally legal and operating on a permit issued by Mexico City. He says he hears complaints all the time but they are totally within their rights to do what they are doing at this point. So now it looks like we are back to the idea of torpedos (just kidding) (I do not want to be hung to dry over this idea as it definately was not mine)
Guess we could take up a collection and find out what a boat makes in a certain period of time and maybe we could pay them from 1/2 to full amount if they would go net over at San Carlos or Topolabampo.

Russ - 6-6-2009 at 12:01 PM

Thanks for checking. It is definitely not what I/we wanted to hear.

Sharksbaja - 6-6-2009 at 01:00 PM

The seiners probably have considerable bycatch. What's the deal with that? Must they dump all but the target species or ??

Cypress - 6-6-2009 at 01:10 PM

Sharksbaja, They eat 'em, ice 'em and sell 'em.

Pescador - 6-6-2009 at 07:28 PM

Cypress is right. If it has any value the keep it. The junk that goes over the side is stuff that they can do nothing with.

mulegemichael - 6-7-2009 at 07:10 AM

it seems the seiners have left for right now...we fished all the way up to san marcos yesterday and didn't see even one....as soon as they leave the fishing gets good; we nailed em yesterday!...i think the presence of the marines have made the commercial boys a little nervous....about time!!

Russ - 6-7-2009 at 07:29 AM

I've noticed that too. Seems when the patrol boat is out and about the seiners aren't. Something is fish about all this. ???

BajaBruno - 6-7-2009 at 09:48 AM

I didn't want this thread to die without a quick comment attributed to Gene Kira, reacting to President Fox killing the Shark Norma legislation in 2002 (before it was raised from the dead by the current administration):

"Next, it can hardly be forgotten that the basic policy of CONAPESCA and its parent agency, SAGARPA, is still all-out commercial fishing at any cost, as illustrated by this ludicrously short-sighted statement attributed to a high SAGARPA official: "I have one interest and only one in SAGARPA, and that is to produce food for the hungry people of Mexico. The protection of the vaquitas, the reefs, the sharks and all the other nonsense of the ecologists, a bunch of people that have nothing else to do except create problems for the producers of food, should be the concern of Mr. Lichtinger and SEMARNAT."

Cypress - 6-7-2009 at 01:29 PM

It's the weekend!

The commercial guys are taking a couple days off. Got to unload their catch etc. Monday, they'll be fueled up, with ice and ready for another week of plunder.

Sharksbaja - 6-7-2009 at 01:30 PM

(sigh) Yep the Shark Norma Legislation failed to address many concerns and opened loopholes. It didn't take long for the long-liners to see exploitable opportunities, oh and don't forget the inshore gill-netters.

I'd like to hear some current stats on shark takes or tonnage. I'll bet that resource is about to end. It is a shame that besides the reluctance to monitor and scrutinize commercials and near-shore pangueros the agencies in charge of enforcement still believe like Skeet does, that there really is no shortage of fish(i.e; sharks, rays, fish, anythang that swims, etc.) Methinks if the deep sea there didn't hold so many squid, you would hardly see any pelagics in there as a result.

I fear the gov't will start allowing large squid operations to take place.

THese folks most likely will not see the complete collapse of the SOC in their lifetime. Rather the food web(chain) is so complex that while Dorado and Yellowtail seem abundant to the layman the damage to near-shore fishing is very evident. Compare that to the Pacific side and you soon see how vastly different they are. How much more prolific the Pacific side coastal fisheries are now. It wasn't always that way though. The SOC held huge stocks of reef and rock fish. Hundreds of species of fish. Many large sharks and mammals were common only 25 years ago.

A greater appreciation of that body of water is in order from all users.

Please do not be greedy. You do not need to catch extra fish with the auspices of giving it to your favorite restaurant. It's not fsir to the fish, the other fishermen or the other restaurants. It gives some an unfair advantage and might I say, it provides another opportunity for you to catch yourself another fish.

Go ahead and be a pig, just don't be a hog.

[Edited on 6-7-2009 by Sharksbaja]

Cypress - 6-7-2009 at 02:00 PM

Sharksbaja, Had a dream of going down to Baja, enjoy the super fishing, buy a little cassita, kick back and relax. Found out that the fishing is in serious decline. Changed my mind about the whole deal.