BajaNomad

Loreto Marine Park Meeting

Don Alley - 6-10-2009 at 12:03 PM

The Marine Park has been hosting meetings this week regarding revisions to its management plan.

On Friday, June 12, at 3:30PM, the park will host a meeting for English speaking people, at the University conference room.

Topics discussed in meetings so far include:

Changes in enforcement policy, including more inspections at the ramp and more enforcement of commercial fishing rules.

Changes in commercial fishing rules.

Expansion of the park boundaries.

Creation of more protected areas that will be closed to all fishing.

Complaints related to foreign private boat use.

Changes in the wrist band system.

This may be the best opportunity for local gringos to present our perspectives on park management in a process that until now has had little input from the English speaking community.

flyfishinPam - 6-10-2009 at 01:47 PM

The sport fishing sector is very upset and angry about this particular topic:

"Complaints related to foreign private boat use."

in fact it took well over an hour to get past this topic and move on. Too much time in my opinion but my observations are that everyone else in there is mad as hell and not going to take it anymore. We never discussed the commercial boat, never had the chance because that wasn't the topic. I just want to give you a heads up.

DianaT - 6-10-2009 at 02:10 PM

It will be very interesting to hear about this meeting. Please take notes.

backninedan - 6-10-2009 at 02:29 PM

Cya at the meeting. My note taking abilities are not the greatest, but maybe as a team we can cover the high points and pass them along.

Johannes - 6-10-2009 at 02:41 PM

does anyone who is there have a camera or other recording device to record the discussion? My camera has a note taking option, but I am not in Loreto. It will be very important to know the rules on foreign private boat use. Please take as good notes as possible and share them with all of us. Basically we who are not in Loreto need to hear about all new rules and if there is a way to submit our input to the Marine Park management plan. Thanks Pam, Don and Dan for posting.

Martyman - 6-10-2009 at 03:50 PM

Hi Pam;
What are the main concerns over foreign private boat use?

Don Alley - 6-10-2009 at 04:23 PM

OK, the private boat thing...

I have kept this low key because I don't want other important issues neglected in this rare opportunity to improve conditions in the park, and I don't want a group of angry people to throw gasoline on a delicate, and somewhat heated, issue. However, it is an issue that may not "go away quietly" as I hope it will.

Business has been bad for many local pangeros and others reliant on foreign tourism. 15+ flights a week reduced to 4, at double the price. Swine flu, narco wars, economic recession and the collapse of the area's biggest development have reduced incomes for hotel owners, cab drivers, panga captains and others.

Panga captains spend many mornings waiting in vain for a walk-in customer, and while they wait they see local gringo-owned boats leave the marina. Some have Mexican captains, most do not. They see many launch day after day, often with different passengers. Some of these captains and others believe that business is being conducted; that these Americans are running illicit guiding ventures for profit, without the overhead of license fees or taxes on profits, either as stand-alone guide services or as a value added benefit of a lodging arrangement.

Too much time has been spent, IMO, at these Marine Park meetings kicking around schemes to limit private boating in the Loreto area. I have expressed my opinion, in somewhat stronger terms than here, to the moderator of these meetings verbally and in writing. And he has spoken with the Park director. I have been assured that the park director sees these restrictive proposals as illegal. I have been assured that they are not and will not be seriously considered. So ideally, I hope that this issue can be dealt with quickly at Friday's meeting, although I do believe that there should be enough discussion to have our concerns made part of the record of proceedings.

I'd like to see this meeting become the beginning of a welcoming of local Americans to the process of improving the management of the Park. We can help make this a Marine Park that we can all, Mexican and non-Mexican alike, be proud of. A park that will be a centerpiece in re-invigorating the tourism based economy of Loreto. We can have ideas to contribute, and we can continue to contribute to the economic health of the park and other local park users.

Maybe we can bury this issue and all end up singing Kumbaya, but the reality seems to be that there are some frustrated people coming at us with some proposals which could generate anger and ill will, and I would urge a measured response from folks to try and minimize any growing friction between the Mexican and American people in this community.

Oh, and if I get any solid information an any gringo running unlicensed, illegal trips I'll turn them in, to the Park, to Profepa, to Immigration, to Hacienda, or anyone else I can think of.

Russ - 6-10-2009 at 04:56 PM

Don/Pam & others, I think you're on the right track with the Park. If the rules/laws are agreed upon and enforced I think the year round tourist attractions will will continue to grow. I hope the pangero/private boat issue doesn't dominate you meeting and some solid agreements are made. If your ideas help the tourist industry in your area hopefully it could be used as a model for other places. Like the "Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance". Thank you all!

Martyman - 6-12-2009 at 03:48 PM

Thanks for clarifying. Any new news?

Russ - 6-12-2009 at 04:41 PM

I had a very discouraging conversation with a well know local businessman yesterday. He has been passionate about the preservation of the Bahia Concepcion But has given up on it now has the attitude of "will enjoy it while I can". He's is so frustrated it's hard to be discouraged right along with him. He says, in short, that the coops in this area are nothing but a money making scam encouraged but the politicals who have personal interest in ripping off the government and tax payers. They can get gas, motors, pongas, nets and other equipment at almost no cost out of pocket and can actually make money by selling equipment given to them by the government. Coops are a dime a dozen here. Purchased by individuals boat owners with made up names. There are, according to him 28 coops in Mulege today. I purposely left his name out. If you'd like to hear his story you can U2U me. If you are a regular in Mulege you know him. If you get him started be ready for an ear full. He and his wife are pillars in the community.

Don Alley - 6-12-2009 at 07:20 PM

Todays meeting was very, very well attended, far beyond anyone's expectations. We packed the room. Thank you, thank you to all who took the time to participate.

The meeting went well. Sure, few expect any overnight changes. Most of these issues will remain unresolved for years. But I do think the willingness of people to turn out for this meeting, in numbers far above those of any other user group, will benefit the local gringos.

Don Alley - 6-12-2009 at 07:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Don Jorge
Quote:
Originally posted by Don Alley
OK, the private boat thing...

Some of these captains and others believe that business is being conducted; that these Americans are running illicit guiding ventures for profit, without the overhead of license fees or taxes on profits, either as stand-alone guide services or as a value added benefit of a lodging arrangement.
/quote]

Y tienen razon.


I disagree.

Very few, if any, of "these people" are running an illegal guide service. I say that as one who's been here and walks by the marina every day that I'm not one of "these people" myself.

There was a clear consensus at today's meeting that such services are wrong, they are illegal and that if we find the few, if any, that are violating these laws we would turn them in.

It also became clear who is driving this controversy. A man who thinks he stands to make money by selling more fishing trips. Who also was pushing for a rule requiring all fishing be conducted only from pangas; seems this season he has perhaps lost the rights to charter out the American owned cruiser he was running last year.

[Edited on 6-13-2009 by Don Alley]

[Edited on 6-13-2009 by Don Alley]

shari - 6-12-2009 at 07:31 PM

I'm curious about the wristband issue. How do you locals deal with this when you have friends come to visit...say you take them fishing for a day...do you go down to the office and get them a bracelet? Is there a parks person who comes and sells them at the boat ramp?
I am interested because this system has come to Asuncion now too and we just arent sure how it will work. I sure hope there is a meeting here too to present all the information so it is clear for everyone...I asked the director of the Reserve to come and explain the system to all the service providers here....we'll see what happens.

Don Alley - 6-12-2009 at 07:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
I'm curious about the wristband issue. How do you locals deal with this when you have friends come to visit...say you take them fishing for a day...do you go down to the office and get them a bracelet? Is there a parks person who comes and sells them at the boat ramp?
I am interested because this system has come to Asuncion now too and we just arent sure how it will work. I sure hope there is a meeting here too to present all the information so it is clear for everyone...I asked the director of the Reserve to come and explain the system to all the service providers here....we'll see what happens.


OK, first of all, don't expect the wristbands to be available when and where you need them. You, and other local folks who expect visiting friends, guests or clients should stock up and have them on-hand. They change colors (and price) every year but here in Loreto the old ones are still good until used, so it doesn't hurt to have too many lying around for guests.

If local residents are exempt from needing wrist bands, here they have started demanding proof. A driver's license won't do, they want an FM2 or FM 3, or a copy. For a citizen a passport copy should do. Make a mini-copy that fits in your wallet with a fishing license so you always have it. Perhaps your community is small enough that they'll take locals at their word like they used to in Loreto.

There was an exemption for those over 60, but that has been removed. That may be the same for you.

There is an annual permit, but the funds collected from them do not go to your local area.

shari - 6-12-2009 at 08:27 PM

thanks Don...that makes sense....we will be purchasing wristbands for our guests.
I wonder how they qualify a local...someone who owns a house, leases land, is here for a few months, has a CFE, electricity account??? It will be a challenge for Jaime to patrol from Turtle Bay to abreojos. I've been told wristbands will be available at Ernestos fuel dock in Turtle Bay, at Campo Rene near Abreojos and the Coop in La Bocana.
The passports are a better option for those spending more than a week in any park in the country as it is 260 pesos for a year in any park.

backninedan - 6-12-2009 at 08:41 PM

I went to the meeting also and was amazed at the turnout. The meeting was quite well run and with luck some good will come of it.

Don Alley - 6-12-2009 at 10:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
thanks Don...that makes sense....we will be purchasing wristbands for our guests.
I wonder how they qualify a local...someone who owns a house, leases land, is here for a few months, has a CFE, electricity account??? It will be a challenge for Jaime to patrol from Turtle Bay to abreojos. I've been told wristbands will be available at Ernestos fuel dock in Turtle Bay, at Campo Rene near Abreojos and the Coop in La Bocana.
The passports are a better option for those spending more than a week in any park in the country as it is 260 pesos for a year in any park.


Who is a "local?" That's easy to answer if you are a gringo. You need an immigration document, FM2 or FM3, or whatever document gringos get when they become Mexican citizens. With a local address on them. Copies are OK.

If you are a Mexican? Non resident Mexicans need a wrist band. I assume locals need local ID, but I don't know which one the park asks for, or even if they ask.

Keep this in mind: The passports may be cheaper. But if you have an attachment to a particular park or reserve, remember that wristband money stays local. Passports don't. And you will find that your reserve needs money to operate.

Trex - 6-13-2009 at 07:56 AM

Fishing only allowed from a chartered panga?

Implement a racist policy against me and I will trailer my boat elsewhere.

With my truck and boat will be my wallet. All of my friends who visit will also follow me to the new location.

The Loreto community will lose the following funds;
Gas, bait, fishing gear, hotel rooms, dinning out, storage fees, groceries, rental cars, park wrist bands and yes when too many friends show up they frequently charter pangas.

Besides the loss of funds, get ready for the negative publicity because I will work over time to spread the word.

shari - 6-13-2009 at 08:12 AM

I understand the problems with "gringo charters"...and have seen some of the guys in action in bars...they chat a tourist up...buy a couple drinks...start talking fishing and the gringos says...hey...no need to pay big bucks on a charter....I'll take ya out if you pay for the gas and beer!
It is also a problem with local mexicans with pangas...but now with the new crackdowns this will be eliminated.

Happens all the time...thus the poor charter boat captains who have paid dearly for their permits, insurance, boats etc....sadly watch as the gringos set off with yet another potential client of theirs.

I think it's fine for them to take out their family and buddies visiting them...but is NOT OK to take out some guy they met in the bar who would otherwise use a charter operator. Now how to enforce this or draw the line will be darn difficult...pretty much impossible to prove...maybe you should have to supply photos of you with your arm around your old fishing buddy or something.

But it really is maddening when one strives to be a legal service provider and the gringos whisk away your clients.

Don Alley - 6-13-2009 at 08:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Trex
Fishing only allowed from a chartered panga?

Implement a racist policy against me and I will trailer my boat elsewhere.

With my truck and boat will be my wallet. All of my friends who visit will also follow me to the new location.

The Loreto community will lose the following funds;
Gas, bait, fishing gear, hotel rooms, dinning out, storage fees, groceries, rental cars, park wrist bands and yes when too many friends show up they frequently charter pangas.

Besides the loss of funds, get ready for the negative publicity because I will work over time to spread the word.


Don't worry, the situation is well in hand. There will no such restrictions. You and your boat are welcome in Loreto and will continue to be so.

It looks like things are picking up as the swine flu leaves and more dorado arrive, and the handful of disgruntled locals get some business.

My last trip out a couple of days ago we were constantly hooked up with dorado. Double and triple hookups all around us. This morning looked like the busiest day of the year so far at the marina. Looks like it's going to be a great dorado season, you should get in on this.

What?

longhairedbeatnik - 6-13-2009 at 08:19 AM

So let me get this right. If I fly in to visit a friend, he or she can not take me fishing if they have a boat. Or if I meet some nice couple in a bar and they have a boat, they can not offer to take me fishing. This is insane. Whats next, not being allowed to pick up friends at the airport because there are taxis available.
As the economy gets worse,I am sure there will be more of this insane attitude by the local business people.
No wonder Mexico can not jump start the tourist industry with this garbage and the land scams.
Sorry for the rant but this is crazy.:fire:

Don Alley - 6-13-2009 at 08:49 AM

Quote:
understand the problems with "gringo charters"...and have seen some of the guys in action in bars...they chat a tourist up...buy a couple drinks...start talking fishing and the gringos says...hey...no need to pay big bucks on a charter....I'll take ya out if you pay for the gas and beer!
It is also a problem with local mexicans with pangas...but now with the new crackdowns this will be eliminated.

Happens all the time...thus the poor charter boat captains who have paid dearly for their permits, insurance, boats etc....sadly watch as the gringos set off with yet another potential client of theirs.

I think it's fine for them to take out their family and buddies visiting them...but is NOT OK to take out some guy they met in the bar who would otherwise use a charter operator. Now how to enforce this or draw the line will be darn difficult...pretty much impossible to prove...maybe you should have to supply photos of you with your arm around your old fishing buddy or something.

But it really is maddening when one strives to be a legal service provider and the gringos whisk away your clients.


I'm not surprised that it happens. But "happens all the time?" That it's so widespread that its seriously hurting legitimate local business?

I think it's greatly exaggerated. There aren't that many gringo bars around here and although I don't spend much time in bars, I'm not hearing this and the boaters I know are not doing this. Your situation in Asuncion may be different.

IMO what IS hurting business is a fishery too heavily dependent on a short season for dorado, while the local reefs are hammered by nets, divers, spearing and combinations of the above, and where summer migrations of inshore species are so depleted by the time they've run the gauntlet of nets that there are few reaching Loreto. I think people should be more concerned with the numbers of visiting chartered anglers who pay for airfare, hotel, restaurant and charter only to find a fishery that produces maybe a single yellowtail per boat average on many days. If even that.

Here we have an opportunity to institute some real management that can bring big improvements in fishing, which could economically benefit the entire community, and some stakeholders can only demand forced economic protectionism that would probably result in a net loss to them, as well as the local economy as a whole. And they are wasting their time because as I've posted before these restrictions will not happen. The waste of an opportunity, and the continued failure to manage their fishery bothers me far more than a hollow threat to force me to hire captains.

You want to do business with tourists? You have to work for their business. You have to compete with others, "legitimate" and otherwise. You have to allow people their basic freedoms to associate with who they wish, and to make their own choices. You have to convince them that your services are worth their time and money, and superior to other alternatives, whether those alternatives are a trip with a new bar buddy, a trip with a competing captain, a weekend in Vegas or Disneyworld, or a weekend at home watching TV. The only restrictions on private boating should be that they may not run as a business that generates income.

Personally, I'm sold. I want to visit Asuncion and I want to go out with a particular captain there (assuming he isn't wearing his thong thing). :biggrin: It's just a matter of when I can get around to it. You're doing a great job of promoting your business and that will carry through the tough times and make you prosper in the good times.

Hey, it's fishing!!! You can't catch them all. Some get away.

DianaT - 6-13-2009 at 09:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
I understand the problems with "gringo charters"...and have seen some of the guys in action in bars...they chat a tourist up...buy a couple drinks...start talking fishing and the gringos says...hey...no need to pay big bucks on a charter....I'll take ya out if you pay for the gas and beer!
It is also a problem with local mexicans with pangas...but now with the new crackdowns this will be eliminated.

Happens all the time...thus the poor charter boat captains who have paid dearly for their permits, insurance, boats etc....sadly watch as the gringos set off with yet another potential client of theirs.

I think it's fine for them to take out their family and buddies visiting them...but is NOT OK to take out some guy they met in the bar who would otherwise use a charter operator. Now how to enforce this or draw the line will be darn difficult...pretty much impossible to prove...maybe you should have to supply photos of you with your arm around your old fishing buddy or something.

But it really is maddening when one strives to be a legal service provider and the gringos whisk away your clients.


Is this really happening in Bahia Asuncion? But maybe it might when the bar opens, or maybe it happens elsewhere. Other than the one person who thinks he is going to be a charter, are there any gringos living town with boats now?

I, however, do think it is a good thing that they are stopping the unlicensed locals from taking tourists out---difficult for some people to accept as it is an old long time habit.

You and the other fully licensed people in town have paid a lot of money and a lot of time in becoming licensed and deserve the business.

However, as more and more gringos buy property there, more and more of them will have boats and will take friends out---a part of the growing pains of an area.

shari - 6-13-2009 at 09:13 AM

I wasnt referring to Asuncion...although some people do go out with unlicensed pangas which does affect the livliehood of the legal operators. But we often meet with charter operators in other areas like Loreto, Mulege, BOLA, La Paz where this type of bar chartering...for fuel, beer, food etc. does happen more than you may think and all legal charter operators are not happy about it.
We realize of course that we have to compete with legitimate business but certainly shouldnt have to compete with illegitimate outfits. It is incredibly difficult to get all the permits and in these tough times...well...one must protect their investments.

I personally know gringos that troll the hotel bars for "clients" so they can go fish and not have to pay their gas....not in Asuncion...actually the gringos here have been good at chartering local legal guides when their friends come to visit. I speak here for our amigos who have legit charter boats in Loreto...it drives em nuts seeing the same guys taking out what are obviously new tourists in town...not their old fishing buddies.

For the record, I am against any restrictions for people who bring their own boats...but they must operate within the regulations, limits etc...but I would somehow like to impress upon people to please understand the legal charter operators position and urge visitors( who dont have boats) to use their services...these guys know where the fish are...how to catch em...and could really use the business.

mtgoat666 - 6-13-2009 at 10:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Trex
Implement a racist policy against me and I will trailer my boat elsewhere.


i think you have confused race with nationality, or confused race with business licensing.

flyfishinPam - 6-13-2009 at 03:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Don Alley
Quote:
Originally posted by Don Jorge
Quote:
Originally posted by Don Alley



Y tienen razon.


I disagree.

Very few, if any, of "these people" are running an illegal guide service. I say that as one who's been here and walks by the marina every day that I'm not one of "these people" myself.

There was a clear consensus at today's meeting that such services are wrong, they are illegal and that if we find the few, if any, that are violating these laws we would turn them in.

It also became clear who is driving this controversy. A man who thinks he stands to make money by selling more fishing trips. Who also was pushing for a rule requiring all fishing be conducted only from pangas; seems this season he has perhaps lost the rights to charter out the American owned cruiser he was running last year.

[Edited on 6-13-2009 by Don Alley]

[Edited on 6-13-2009 by Don Alley]


there´s so many bloodyt quote boxes I don´t know who the hell i am addressing.

don jorge your take on how and why these suggestions are being made is incorrect. please come to the spanish speaking sportfishing sector meeting next time and you will see. also the boat story isnt completely accurate either. sorry but if anyone wants me to set the record straight i´ll be happy to discuss this in person but not in here i would have to write a book.

edited to get my comments out of the quote box!

[Edited on 6-13-2009 by flyfishinPam]

flyfishinPam - 6-13-2009 at 03:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
I'm curious about the wristband issue. How do you locals deal with this when you have friends come to visit...say you take them fishing for a day...do you go down to the office and get them a bracelet? Is there a parks person who comes and sells them at the boat ramp?
I am interested because this system has come to Asuncion now too and we just arent sure how it will work. I sure hope there is a meeting here too to present all the information so it is clear for everyone...I asked the director of the Reserve to come and explain the system to all the service providers here....we'll see what happens.



Shari I go into the conanp website and look up the articulo and either print the pdf hoja de ayuda or I pay directly with the correct codes via Bancomer. Then I take the pago into the office and recieve my bracelets. I usualy buy at least 50 at a time sometimes more, they´re good forever (they say) and not date validated like the pesca permisos are. I hope that made sense to you speaking in Mexican beaurocrat code.

flyfishinPam - 6-13-2009 at 03:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Russ
I had a very discouraging conversation with a well know local businessman yesterday. He has been passionate about the preservation of the Bahia Concepcion But has given up on it now has the attitude of "will enjoy it while I can". He's is so frustrated it's hard to be discouraged right along with him. He says, in short, that the coops in this area are nothing but a money making scam encouraged but the politicals who have personal interest in ripping off the government and tax payers. They can get gas, motors, pongas, nets and other equipment at almost no cost out of pocket and can actually make money by selling equipment given to them by the government. Coops are a dime a dozen here. Purchased by individuals boat owners with made up names. There are, according to him 28 coops in Mulege today. I purposely left his name out. If you'd like to hear his story you can U2U me. If you are a regular in Mulege you know him. If you get him started be ready for an ear full. He and his wife are pillars in the community.


Hi there Russ. I am sorry this businessperson has had bad experiences with coops but I assure you and other readers here that his/her stories are not the same everywhere.

Cypress - 6-13-2009 at 04:05 PM

Is there a "nit picking" catagory?:lol:

flyfishinPam - 6-13-2009 at 04:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
thanks Don...that makes sense....we will be purchasing wristbands for our guests.
I wonder how they qualify a local...someone who owns a house, leases land, is here for a few months, has a CFE, electricity account??? It will be a challenge for Jaime to patrol from Turtle Bay to abreojos. I've been told wristbands will be available at Ernestos fuel dock in Turtle Bay, at Campo Rene near Abreojos and the Coop in La Bocana.
The passports are a better option for those spending more than a week in any park in the country as it is 260 pesos for a year in any park.


the passports are good for any conanp national protected area in Mexico

Russ - 6-13-2009 at 05:17 PM

Thanks Pam,
I have always been under the impression the the coops where a real asset to their area. So when I was told about this one instance I was really horrified. I'm sure it is something that needs to be looked at from a point of rampant corruption. To have that many "legal" coops in this small area just doesn't look right.

shari - 6-13-2009 at 06:16 PM

gracias pam...yeah I get it...but supposedly we can buy the bracelets from the Biosphere Reserve worker here...we'll see what happens...this is a whole new thing for us inour area and we are trying to sort out how it will work.
The unfortunate thing is that there are some really good guides in the area who wont be able to work because it just costs too much money to get all the permits and is too complicated...I feel bad for them...and some older retired men have been told they can no longer fish for food fish for their families without the new permits...sad.

Bajaboy - 6-13-2009 at 06:28 PM

So let's see....FMTs, fishing licenses, and now a new fee...what does one get in return for these fees? Sounds like another way to discourage tourism to me.

[Edited on 6-14-2009 by Bajaboy]

ncampion - 6-13-2009 at 06:40 PM

Leagalized thievery and all in the name of "the environment".

mtgoat666 - 6-13-2009 at 06:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
So let's see....FMTs, fishing licenses, and now a new fee...what does one get in return for these fees? Sounds like another way to discourage tourism to me.

[Edited on 6-14-2009 by Bajaboy]


the passports don't cost much ($20?) and they come with a shiny gold coin. tre tre cool, tre tre chic.

one always hopes that the fees go to maintaining the special areas.

DianaT - 6-13-2009 at 06:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
So let's see....FMTs, fishing licenses, and now a new few...what does one get in return for these fees? Sounds like another way to discourage tourism to me.


The fees for the Preserve are not new----just not enforced in lots of areas in the past.

Lots of people criticize the Preserves for not "preserving" enough, so maybe with the enforcement of the fees, there will be more money available for good projects. Unlike a lot of tax money that goes to Mexico City, from our understanding, the fees stay local.

New roads, new development, new Baja and not everyone is going to like it.

We hope it will not discourage tourism, just like charging fees for using Yosemite certainly has not discouraged tourism.

[Edited on 6-14-2009 by jdtrotter]

Bajaboy - 6-13-2009 at 07:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jdtrotter
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
So let's see....FMTs, fishing licenses, and now a new few...what does one get in return for these fees? Sounds like another way to discourage tourism to me.


The fees for the Preserve are not new----just not enforced in lots of areas in the past.

Lots of people criticize the Preserves for not "preserving" enough, so maybe with the enforcement of the fees, there will be more money available for good projects. Unlike a lot of tax money that goes to Mexico City, from our understanding, the fees stay local.

New roads, new development, new Baja and not everyone is going to like it.

We hope it will not discourage tourism, just like charging fees for using Yosemite certainly has not discouraged tourism.

[Edited on 6-14-2009 by jdtrotter]


When I buy a fishing license in California it goes towards protecting the sealife. When I go to Yosemite, I can count on public bathrooms, maintained trails, campgrounds, etc. This is just another money grab by someone in govt. I'm sure the licensed tour guides are paying licensing fees that should go towards the preserve.

All I'm saying is add up the fees for a family of four....FMTs about $90...fishing licenses $200 and now another $80. There are better means and methods to raise money for the preserve if that is what this is really about. I really don't think that is the case.

DianaT - 6-14-2009 at 02:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Quote:
Originally posted by jdtrotter
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
So let's see....FMTs, fishing licenses, and now a new few...what does one get in return for these fees? Sounds like another way to discourage tourism to me.


The fees for the Preserve are not new----just not enforced in lots of areas in the past.

Lots of people criticize the Preserves for not "preserving" enough, so maybe with the enforcement of the fees, there will be more money available for good projects. Unlike a lot of tax money that goes to Mexico City, from our understanding, the fees stay local.

New roads, new development, new Baja and not everyone is going to like it.

We hope it will not discourage tourism, just like charging fees for using Yosemite certainly has not discouraged tourism.

[Edited on 6-14-2009 by jdtrotter]


When I buy a fishing license in California it goes towards protecting the sealife. When I go to Yosemite, I can count on public bathrooms, maintained trails, campgrounds, etc. This is just another money grab by someone in govt. I'm sure the licensed tour guides are paying licensing fees that should go towards the preserve.

All I'm saying is add up the fees for a family of four....FMTs about $90...fishing licenses $200 and now another $80. There are better means and methods to raise money for the preserve if that is what this is really about. I really don't think that is the case.


Zac,
The fees collected for the Preserve are to be used for projects involving the Preserve----kept local for the benefit of the local Preserve.