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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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Loreto Marine Park Meeting
The Marine Park has been hosting meetings this week regarding revisions to its management plan.
On Friday, June 12, at 3:30PM, the park will host a meeting for English speaking people, at the University conference room.
Topics discussed in meetings so far include:
Changes in enforcement policy, including more inspections at the ramp and more enforcement of commercial fishing rules.
Changes in commercial fishing rules.
Expansion of the park boundaries.
Creation of more protected areas that will be closed to all fishing.
Complaints related to foreign private boat use.
Changes in the wrist band system.
This may be the best opportunity for local gringos to present our perspectives on park management in a process that until now has had little input
from the English speaking community.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Mood: gone fishin'
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The sport fishing sector is very upset and angry about this particular topic:
"Complaints related to foreign private boat use."
in fact it took well over an hour to get past this topic and move on. Too much time in my opinion but my observations are that everyone else in there
is mad as hell and not going to take it anymore. We never discussed the commercial boat, never had the chance because that wasn't the topic. I just
want to give you a heads up.
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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It will be very interesting to hear about this meeting. Please take notes.
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backninedan
Senior Nomad
Posts: 865
Registered: 3-8-2003
Location: Loreto
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Cya at the meeting. My note taking abilities are not the greatest, but maybe as a team we can cover the high points and pass them along.
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Johannes
Nomad
Posts: 110
Registered: 9-29-2006
Location: / Loreto/Kenmore,WA
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Mood: I love it in Loreto
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does anyone who is there have a camera or other recording device to record the discussion? My camera has a note taking option, but I am not in
Loreto. It will be very important to know the rules on foreign private boat use. Please take as good notes as possible and share them with all of
us. Basically we who are not in Loreto need to hear about all new rules and if there is a way to submit our input to the Marine Park management plan.
Thanks Pam, Don and Dan for posting.
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Martyman
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Posts: 1904
Registered: 9-10-2004
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Hi Pam;
What are the main concerns over foreign private boat use?
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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OK, the private boat thing...
I have kept this low key because I don't want other important issues neglected in this rare opportunity to improve conditions in the park, and I don't
want a group of angry people to throw gasoline on a delicate, and somewhat heated, issue. However, it is an issue that may not "go away quietly" as I
hope it will.
Business has been bad for many local pangeros and others reliant on foreign tourism. 15+ flights a week reduced to 4, at double the price. Swine flu,
narco wars, economic recession and the collapse of the area's biggest development have reduced incomes for hotel owners, cab drivers, panga captains
and others.
Panga captains spend many mornings waiting in vain for a walk-in customer, and while they wait they see local gringo-owned boats leave the marina.
Some have Mexican captains, most do not. They see many launch day after day, often with different passengers. Some of these captains and others
believe that business is being conducted; that these Americans are running illicit guiding ventures for profit, without the overhead of license fees
or taxes on profits, either as stand-alone guide services or as a value added benefit of a lodging arrangement.
Too much time has been spent, IMO, at these Marine Park meetings kicking around schemes to limit private boating in the Loreto area. I have expressed
my opinion, in somewhat stronger terms than here, to the moderator of these meetings verbally and in writing. And he has spoken with the Park
director. I have been assured that the park director sees these restrictive proposals as illegal. I have been assured that they are not and will not
be seriously considered. So ideally, I hope that this issue can be dealt with quickly at Friday's meeting, although I do believe that there should be
enough discussion to have our concerns made part of the record of proceedings.
I'd like to see this meeting become the beginning of a welcoming of local Americans to the process of improving the management of the Park. We can
help make this a Marine Park that we can all, Mexican and non-Mexican alike, be proud of. A park that will be a centerpiece in re-invigorating the
tourism based economy of Loreto. We can have ideas to contribute, and we can continue to contribute to the economic health of the park and other local
park users.
Maybe we can bury this issue and all end up singing Kumbaya, but the reality seems to be that there are some frustrated people coming at us with some
proposals which could generate anger and ill will, and I would urge a measured response from folks to try and minimize any growing friction between
the Mexican and American people in this community.
Oh, and if I get any solid information an any gringo running unlicensed, illegal trips I'll turn them in, to the Park, to Profepa, to Immigration, to
Hacienda, or anyone else I can think of.
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Russ
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Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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Don/Pam & others, I think you're on the right track with the Park. If the rules/laws are agreed upon and enforced I think the year round tourist
attractions will will continue to grow. I hope the pangero/private boat issue doesn't dominate you meeting and some solid agreements are made. If your
ideas help the tourist industry in your area hopefully it could be used as a model for other places. Like the "Bahia Concepcion where life
starts...given a chance". Thank you all!
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Martyman
Super Nomad
Posts: 1904
Registered: 9-10-2004
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Thanks for clarifying. Any new news?
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Russ
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Location: Punta Chivato
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I had a very discouraging conversation with a well know local businessman yesterday. He has been passionate about the preservation of the Bahia
Concepcion But has given up on it now has the attitude of "will enjoy it while I can". He's is so frustrated it's hard to be discouraged right along
with him. He says, in short, that the coops in this area are nothing but a money making scam encouraged but the politicals who have personal interest
in ripping off the government and tax payers. They can get gas, motors, pongas, nets and other equipment at almost no cost out of pocket and can
actually make money by selling equipment given to them by the government. Coops are a dime a dozen here. Purchased by individuals boat owners with
made up names. There are, according to him 28 coops in Mulege today. I purposely left his name out. If you'd like to hear his story you can U2U me. If
you are a regular in Mulege you know him. If you get him started be ready for an ear full. He and his wife are pillars in the community.
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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Todays meeting was very, very well attended, far beyond anyone's expectations. We packed the room. Thank you, thank you to all who took the time to
participate.
The meeting went well. Sure, few expect any overnight changes. Most of these issues will remain unresolved for years. But I do think the willingness
of people to turn out for this meeting, in numbers far above those of any other user group, will benefit the local gringos.
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Jorge
| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Alley
OK, the private boat thing...
Some of these captains and others believe that business is being conducted; that these Americans are running illicit guiding ventures for profit,
without the overhead of license fees or taxes on profits, either as stand-alone guide services or as a value added benefit of a lodging arrangement.
/quote]
Y tienen razon. |
I disagree.
Very few, if any, of "these people" are running an illegal guide service. I say that as one who's been here and walks by the marina every day that I'm
not one of "these people" myself.
There was a clear consensus at today's meeting that such services are wrong, they are illegal and that if we find the few, if any, that are violating
these laws we would turn them in.
It also became clear who is driving this controversy. A man who thinks he stands to make money by selling more fishing trips. Who also was pushing for
a rule requiring all fishing be conducted only from pangas; seems this season he has perhaps lost the rights to charter out the American owned cruiser
he was running last year.
[Edited on 6-13-2009 by Don Alley]
[Edited on 6-13-2009 by Don Alley] |
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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I'm curious about the wristband issue. How do you locals deal with this when you have friends come to visit...say you take them fishing for a day...do
you go down to the office and get them a bracelet? Is there a parks person who comes and sells them at the boat ramp?
I am interested because this system has come to Asuncion now too and we just arent sure how it will work. I sure hope there is a meeting here too to
present all the information so it is clear for everyone...I asked the director of the Reserve to come and explain the system to all the service
providers here....we'll see what happens.
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
I'm curious about the wristband issue. How do you locals deal with this when you have friends come to visit...say you take them fishing for a day...do
you go down to the office and get them a bracelet? Is there a parks person who comes and sells them at the boat ramp?
I am interested because this system has come to Asuncion now too and we just arent sure how it will work. I sure hope there is a meeting here too to
present all the information so it is clear for everyone...I asked the director of the Reserve to come and explain the system to all the service
providers here....we'll see what happens. |
OK, first of all, don't expect the wristbands to be available when and where you need them. You, and other local folks who expect visiting friends,
guests or clients should stock up and have them on-hand. They change colors (and price) every year but here in Loreto the old ones are still good
until used, so it doesn't hurt to have too many lying around for guests.
If local residents are exempt from needing wrist bands, here they have started demanding proof. A driver's license won't do, they want an FM2 or FM 3,
or a copy. For a citizen a passport copy should do. Make a mini-copy that fits in your wallet with a fishing license so you always have it. Perhaps
your community is small enough that they'll take locals at their word like they used to in Loreto.
There was an exemption for those over 60, but that has been removed. That may be the same for you.
There is an annual permit, but the funds collected from them do not go to your local area.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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thanks Don...that makes sense....we will be purchasing wristbands for our guests.
I wonder how they qualify a local...someone who owns a house, leases land, is here for a few months, has a CFE, electricity account??? It will be a
challenge for Jaime to patrol from Turtle Bay to abreojos. I've been told wristbands will be available at Ernestos fuel dock in Turtle Bay, at Campo
Rene near Abreojos and the Coop in La Bocana.
The passports are a better option for those spending more than a week in any park in the country as it is 260 pesos for a year in any park.
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backninedan
Senior Nomad
Posts: 865
Registered: 3-8-2003
Location: Loreto
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I went to the meeting also and was amazed at the turnout. The meeting was quite well run and with luck some good will come of it.
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
thanks Don...that makes sense....we will be purchasing wristbands for our guests.
I wonder how they qualify a local...someone who owns a house, leases land, is here for a few months, has a CFE, electricity account??? It will be a
challenge for Jaime to patrol from Turtle Bay to abreojos. I've been told wristbands will be available at Ernestos fuel dock in Turtle Bay, at Campo
Rene near Abreojos and the Coop in La Bocana.
The passports are a better option for those spending more than a week in any park in the country as it is 260 pesos for a year in any park.
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Who is a "local?" That's easy to answer if you are a gringo. You need an immigration document, FM2 or FM3, or whatever document gringos get when they
become Mexican citizens. With a local address on them. Copies are OK.
If you are a Mexican? Non resident Mexicans need a wrist band. I assume locals need local ID, but I don't know which one the park asks for, or even if
they ask.
Keep this in mind: The passports may be cheaper. But if you have an attachment to a particular park or reserve, remember that wristband money stays
local. Passports don't. And you will find that your reserve needs money to operate.
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Trex
Newbie
Posts: 13
Registered: 2-26-2009
Location: Martinez, CA
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Fishing only allowed from a chartered panga?
Implement a racist policy against me and I will trailer my boat elsewhere.
With my truck and boat will be my wallet. All of my friends who visit will also follow me to the new location.
The Loreto community will lose the following funds;
Gas, bait, fishing gear, hotel rooms, dinning out, storage fees, groceries, rental cars, park wrist bands and yes when too many friends show up they
frequently charter pangas.
Besides the loss of funds, get ready for the negative publicity because I will work over time to spread the word.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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I understand the problems with "gringo charters"...and have seen some of the guys in action in bars...they chat a tourist up...buy a couple
drinks...start talking fishing and the gringos says...hey...no need to pay big bucks on a charter....I'll take ya out if you pay for the gas and beer!
It is also a problem with local mexicans with pangas...but now with the new crackdowns this will be eliminated.
Happens all the time...thus the poor charter boat captains who have paid dearly for their permits, insurance, boats etc....sadly watch as the gringos
set off with yet another potential client of theirs.
I think it's fine for them to take out their family and buddies visiting them...but is NOT OK to take out some guy they met in the bar who would
otherwise use a charter operator. Now how to enforce this or draw the line will be darn difficult...pretty much impossible to prove...maybe you should
have to supply photos of you with your arm around your old fishing buddy or something.
But it really is maddening when one strives to be a legal service provider and the gringos whisk away your clients.
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Trex
Fishing only allowed from a chartered panga?
Implement a racist policy against me and I will trailer my boat elsewhere.
With my truck and boat will be my wallet. All of my friends who visit will also follow me to the new location.
The Loreto community will lose the following funds;
Gas, bait, fishing gear, hotel rooms, dinning out, storage fees, groceries, rental cars, park wrist bands and yes when too many friends show up they
frequently charter pangas.
Besides the loss of funds, get ready for the negative publicity because I will work over time to spread the word. |
Don't worry, the situation is well in hand. There will no such restrictions. You and your boat are welcome in Loreto and will continue to be so.
It looks like things are picking up as the swine flu leaves and more dorado arrive, and the handful of disgruntled locals get some business.
My last trip out a couple of days ago we were constantly hooked up with dorado. Double and triple hookups all around us. This morning looked like the
busiest day of the year so far at the marina. Looks like it's going to be a great dorado season, you should get in on this.
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