BajaNomad

Baja vs. the mainland

k-rico - 6-20-2009 at 01:22 PM

I recently finished a 5 week 4000 mile RV trip to the mainland. Sonora, Sinaloa, Nayarit, Jalisco, Colima, and Michoacan. I visited many spots along the coast. It was a great trip for many reasons but one of the best aspects was the RV parks were essentially empty because it was an off season trip. No crowds.

One of my objectives was to make a decision about where to spend winters. Tijuana gets a bit too cold for me.

The fundamental decision was Baja Sur or the mainland?

Baja is it! We're fortunate to have such a great and diverse place so close.

So, for my first winter free of corporate demands I'll be looking for a place to rent on the Sea of Cortez from Santa Rosalia to the East Cape.

bajalou - 6-20-2009 at 02:36 PM

I think the vehicle fee is about 30 bucks for US plated cars to visit the mainland. The Temp. Importation is good for as long as your visa is. FMT, FM2 or FM3 About 25 bucks for a Baja Calif plated "Frontera" car to do the same thing.

Osprey - 6-20-2009 at 03:27 PM

Great to hear that Baja Sur is still attractive to some. Even the weather can change to suit your tastes -- since I first landed in East Cape I've thought the winters were too cold for me, sometimes I wondered if I might not be better off way down on the mainland near Hautulco. Then, measured against all the other things I like here along comes a few years when we have no real winter. The ocean temp defines our seasons and this last year we didn't need heaters or long pants or sweaters at all. So if the heat doesn't bother you you'll be surrounded by people who really love it here.

bajagrouper - 6-20-2009 at 09:43 PM

I would also be interested in your decision, after traveling in Baja for many years ( 1962 through 2003 ) I ended up buying a retirement home in a small beach resort town north of Puerto Vallarta...and have never regretted it, maybe it is the difference between desert brown vs. jungle green.. cost of housing / living...etc. etc.

It's your turn K-rico, what made the difference in your decision?

rocmoc - 6-21-2009 at 06:16 AM

I too would like to hear the reasons.

We have traveled the mainland as far South El Faro on the west coast, almost a day below PV, and thu most of the Highlands north of Mexico City. While we have found a couple of places we love, there really wasn't anyplace we could play with the toys safely except kayaking in El Faro.

While we have been thu Baja several times flying & renting a car, this will be the first winter in the RV with toys. We have been in Cabo when it was 90 degrees in Feb which was not the norm. So as Osprey said, will we be too cold for the entire winter? We don't like anything below 76 degrees, it is hot here in AZ & we are Desert Rats.

K-rico, share with us WHY!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Edited on 05-25-2009 by rocmoc]

[Edited on 05-25-2009 by rocmoc]

MitchMan - 6-21-2009 at 06:23 AM

After fishing Loreto for 10 years, I decided to buy a place somewhere in Mexico. So, I went on a 21 day whirlwind tour, setting up real estate agent appointments in advance in each location. Itinerary: Guaymas/San Carlos, Mazatlan, Hermosillo, Guadalajara, Puerto Vallarta, Xtapa/Zihuatenejo, Cabo, La Paz, Loreto, Mulege. Final analysis - Picked Loreto!

All things considered, for me, Loreto was the best choice by far. Quiet, not a tourist trap, beauty (not many places have three sides of the town surrounded by low beautiful mountains and a magnificent nearby Island), best fishing, nice people, not commercial, no loud night life (night life is a tourist/American thing characterized by 20 somethings pounding down bears like the world was going to end - not a Mexican cultural thing - that's Newport Beach American culture), close to an international airport, low prices for food and real estate, drivable from the US, warmer weather (not present in Baja towns on the coast within 200 miles of the US border), history (oldest mission in any of the Californias), close to Mulege, access to fishing grounds very close and easiest to get to. Can any other place top that?

Loreto, that's my pick.

I must say that I was very attracted to Puerto Vallarta, especially the Nayarit area. Good residential real estate and good prices and Nayarit's proximity to PV was just a 30 minute drive, yet still far enough away to be away from the commericalism of PV (favorite restaurant in all of Mexico, besides Anderson's in Mexico City is Bogart's in PV). PV is tropical, Loreto and points north of San Jose del Cabo are not tropical. Then there is Xtapa/Zihuatenejo. Very, very tropical and that is a huge plus (they have crocodiles there! Side point, I love the Spanish word for crocodiles .. "cocodriles"; try saying it in Spanish, it's fun). My only concern was the fishing.

[Edited on 6-21-2009 by MitchMan]

bajagrouper - 6-21-2009 at 09:21 AM

Hola Mitch Man, I am in Nayarit and we have plenty of fish on this side also, many friends have their own boats, there are panga fishing guides, panga commercial fishermen, shrimp farms near San Blas..every morning the pangas beach with fresh fish for sale, friends catch sail, marlin and dorado...don't forget the many rivers and lakes where bass fishing is available...no need to be concerned about fishing around here, we also have a 14 foot croc in a lagoon...suerte

k-rico - 6-21-2009 at 09:35 AM

The biggest drawback to the mainland is distance both physically, which is easy to understand, and psychologically, which is not so easy to explain. And, the physical distance is made worse by the fact that the drive seemed much more difficult than the number of miles would indicate. I found driving through Sonora a real chore. The way I drive, slowly in 300 mile chunks, means it takes 3 nights on the road to reach Mazatlan and I didn't like anything north of Mazatlan. It's like it takes a few days of not very pleasant driving just to get started. Airplanes are not an option.

I liked Nayarit just south of San Blas the best. The small town of Aticama is high on the list. The PV area is not for me for the same reasons I don't like Los Cabos. I also liked the Costalegre area in Jalisco, but not that much more than I like southern Baja. Bahia Chamela is a special place but it's in the category of "nice to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there".

I thought Michoacan would be the place to be because it's largely undeveloped. But I found out the reason is because it's largely inaccessible. The mountains butt up to the ocean. The coast road is a mountain road. We got to Playa Azul and turned around. Ticla and Nexpa are interesting places.

The main reason I like Baja better is simply its proximity (physically and mentally) to my San Diegan roots and I have grown to appreciate the desert climate, more so than I thought.

JESSE - 6-21-2009 at 12:04 PM

Its not even close IMHO, Baja sur had the lowest drug related crime rate in all of Mexico. Direct flights to the US in many places if you ever need medical attention or have to go back in a hurry. Almost no swine flu. And people are way more friendly and relaxed than central Mexico. Dry heat. Great fishing.

Gremlins

Bajahowodd - 6-21-2009 at 01:10 PM

Sad to report that although I was first to ask K-rico the "whys" of his decision, my post is no longer there. Had not been back since I posted it. Just noted that it was posted twice. So, I sought to delete one of the posts, but they both disappeared.

Anyway, I did expect that the distance thing would be a big part of the decision. And, although I may anger a few folks in Guaymas, I agree that it really doesn't even start to happen until you get to Mazatlan.

Hook - 6-21-2009 at 01:44 PM

Driving through Sonora was a chore? :?::?::?::?:

What's so difficult about a mini two-lane freeway?

I cant believe how much more relaxed I am over here compared to my years driving Mex 1. And that was before The Gauntlet.

Bajahowodd - 6-21-2009 at 01:47 PM

You make a good point, Hook. Not to mention the huge increase in truck traffic as BCS developed the resorts. Just curious as to what you consider the gauntlet.

Hook - 6-21-2009 at 05:06 PM

TJ to Ensenada for about the last 18 months or so. Seems there has been an, uh, increase in violent crime in that area.

But even as recently as 10 years ago, I started to get tired of how long it was taking to get to SQ, compared to just a few years earlier. It used to be once you cleared Maneadero, it was smooth sailing. Increased truck traffic took care of that.

Even the good stretches, like the area from Chapala to about the Vizcaino turnoff, just leave no margin for error.

I recently drove from San Carlos, Sonora to San Felipe including the newly opened route between Puerto Penasco and El Golfo de Santa Clara. There was probably a total of about 20 miles of dirt detour in there as well as the usual topes in small towns. I was able to average about 55 mph for the entire trip of about 11 hours of driving. Clearly, I was drastically exceeding the speed limit in large stretches.............although much of it is posted at 100/110 kph. Not a slow route even legally. Only three toll booths in approximately 300 miles.

When we hit the border with BCN, it was incredible how the roads deteriorated. Sonora has, BY FAR, the best roads I have experienced in Mexico.

Prefiero la peninsula tambien

Ken Cooke - 6-21-2009 at 10:09 PM

Baja is more removed from the day-to-day and is more of a large botanical park in comparison to the mainland. I also prefer Baja to Mainland Mexico.


Hola Bajagrouper

frizkie - 6-21-2009 at 11:03 PM

I spent most of my early Mexico days and years on the mainland north and south of the PV area...but in the end I landed in Baja Sur at El Chorro (hotsprings) near Miraflores and Santiago. Yup, BCS is definitely my preference.
One thing missing in BCS tho' is you Rick, aka Bajagrouper, I fondly recall that stroll we had along that beach South of Tecolote four or five years ago with friends as we were looking for the whereabouts of that strange little cliff dwelling critter that was finally identified here on Nomads. That was a great day, Rick, and I'm happy you're doin' good over there on the other side of the pond but I think I'll be staying here.
Hugs and Happy father's Day to your Dad.
Barb

Bajahowodd - 6-21-2009 at 11:26 PM

Supposedly, the government has plans for by-pass highways that would eliminate the congestion around Ensenada. Don't know for certain, but I'm guessing here that the plan was tied into the Colonet port project. Let's not hold our breath.

daveB - 6-22-2009 at 01:06 AM

I love Baja, have really enjoyed the hiking, and exploring a few of its canyons. But I've seen very little of it, only had the little time away from work so always made it a fly-in vacation with some touring and beach camping. Someday I will return.

Retirement provided other plans, like driving the Pacific mainland for the past seven winters. We look around down on the beach we've gone to every year and nobody can describe where a better winter climate can be found, 88 in the afternoon and 70 at night and no rain the past two winters. Nearly every camper we meet has first done trips to Baja. But I always remember a cold wind blowing through San Jose del Cabo during one trip in February and a dozen sun worshippers huddeled at the base of a concrete wall, trying to stay warm, me one.
Nothing wrong with a bracing morning to get you going out on a Baja hiking trail but, I'm worried now that I've become too soft to take that on again.

We snorkle every day in calm waters, ride bicycles, and always leave lots of time on the way home to travel inland to experience the wonderful variety that Mexico has to offer. Three month trips have now been extended to six months away. I hope they don't end!

This forum is the best.


[Edited on 6-22-2009 by daveB]

Eli - 6-22-2009 at 08:38 AM

I have called the East Cape home for 20 years now.

When I retired 5 years ago I started the cycle of heading to Oaxaca for part of the year. This has been my pattern every since; winters in Los Barriles, summers traveling the mainland and basically spending most of my time away from home in Oaxaca City.

I love the contrast between the quite desert with views of the sea and the incredible sky that I watched last night and the Spanish/Indian cultural scene that I am about to fall into later this week.

When I leave Baja Wednesday, I will not miss the heat, I am already sick of sweating.

When I come back from Oaxaca, I will not miss the pollution, I already know how good it will feel to get the air rolling off the sea of Cortez deep in my lungs, and see the stars again.

I Love Baja, but I also Love Oaxaca, I feel very fortunate that I have both.

I'll have to agree....

Borregoman - 6-22-2009 at 04:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
TJ to Ensenada for about the last 18 months or so. Seems there has been an, uh, increase in violent crime in that area.

But even as recently as 10 years ago, I started to get tired of how long it was taking to get to SQ, compared to just a few years earlier. It used to be once you cleared Maneadero, it was smooth sailing. Increased truck traffic took care of that.

Even the good stretches, like the area from Chapala to about the Vizcaino turnoff, just leave no margin for error.

I recently drove from San Carlos, Sonora to San Felipe including the newly opened route between Puerto Penasco and El Golfo de Santa Clara. There was probably a total of about 20 miles of dirt detour in there as well as the usual topes in small towns. I was able to average about 55 mph for the entire trip of about 11 hours of driving. Clearly, I was drastically exceeding the speed limit in large stretches.............although much of it is posted at 100/110 kph. Not a slow route even legally. Only three toll booths in approximately 300 miles.

When we hit the border with BCN, it was incredible how the roads deteriorated. Sonora has, BY FAR, the best roads I have experienced in Mexico.


Hi Hook,

I have to agree with Hook in regards to the mini-freeway, at least from SC to the border, very easy to drive, much easier than dodging trucks, speed bumps and red cross tin can warriors along the highway. There is the proximity thing, somehow you do seem closer to America, if that is what you are looking for, if you end up in Baja. Our place is south of San Felipe, not the average retirement spot and not a place you would want to live year round due to the excessive heat of summer. Attached is a pic of view from the front porch....

You have to pick your place based on what you like to do and what kind of physical surroundings you need to see out your window. Ours is on a sandbar and I awake to the SOC 200" from my porch.

Good Luck!

Hook - 6-22-2009 at 04:35 PM

D-oohhh!!!!

It's gotta be under 50k. Or host it somewhere and paste the link here.

Dock party at 5pm. Gotta run.

[Edited on 6-22-2009 by Hook]

bajagrouper - 6-22-2009 at 06:23 PM

I guess the reason I am enjoying the mainland of Mexico vs. Baja is so many changes that have occurred over the years, mostly for the worst.

My first drive in Baja was in 1971, following a rocky and dirt road along the gulf coast, beautiful beaches all to ourselves, meeting Papa Fernandez and family and sharing turtle steaks for lunch, camping at Gonzaga Bay, sitting around the campfire polishing pieces of turquoise we had traded the miners for some flour and sugar. Almost getting stuck in Laguna Chapala during a surprise rain storm.. Camping at Playa Coyote with only the birds to entertain.

A few years later camping and watching Dorado chase flying fish up to the sand at Nopolo Cove south of Loreto, making friends at the Hotel Mission, aah the Pelican Bar..
At Tecolote Beach the only others there were an old sheep herder and his flock…
One palapa restaurant at Cabo Plumo and that was all.. Fishing off the rocks at lands end by the old cannery…

I haven’t driven the gulf road since 2002 but I read somewhere they were going to pave it…Papas gone and turtles are illegal now…Coyote and the rest of the bay are so crowded now a days with giant motor homes with Sat dishes…there was a NO CAMPING sign in English at Nopolo one visit and a hotel the next…The Mission is closed but I bet Vicente is around still making great Margies…Jet wave runners all over Tecolote and a paved road…barbed wire fences keep you away from beaches around Pulmo with its boutique B&B’s… and then there is Cabo…

I miss Baja the way it was in the good old days, and am enjoying the mainland of Mexico in retirement…Bajagrouper

Why Nayarit?

Lee - 6-22-2009 at 07:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajagrouper
I miss Baja the way it was in the good old days, and am enjoying the mainland of Mexico in retirement…Bajagrouper


How long have you been in Nayarit and how have the changes effected you?

Assuming that no place is perfect, what do you like and dislike about Nayarit?

Did you seriously consider any other place?

Ah Oaxaca!

DianaT - 6-22-2009 at 08:20 PM

My first trip, (not John's first trip) to the mainland was in 1989 and we were headed for Oaxaca for Christmas night. We crossed the border at Mexicali and headed for Airport---milk run to Guadalajara, Mexico City and then another flight to Oaxaca.

As we crossed, the official on the Mexican side asked our destination and when we said Oaxaca,with both hands, he grabbed his chest, swooned backward, and said AHHHHHHHHHH Oaxaca. When we arrived to the central plaza on Christmas night, I understood.

You do have the best. The beautiful beaches of Baja, and the wonderfully rich culture of Oaxaca.

Diane
Quote:
Originally posted by Eli
I have called the East Cape home for 20 years now.

When I retired 5 years ago I started the cycle of heading to Oaxaca for part of the year. This has been my pattern every since; winters in Los Barriles, summers traveling the mainland and basically spending most of my time away from home in Oaxaca City.

I love the contrast between the quite desert with views of the sea and the incredible sky that I watched last night and the Spanish/Indian cultural scene that I am about to fall into later this week.

When I leave Baja Wednesday, I will not miss the heat, I am already sick of sweating.

When I come back from Oaxaca, I will not miss the pollution, I already know how good it will feel to get the air rolling off the sea of Cortez deep in my lungs, and see the stars again.

I Love Baja, but I also Love Oaxaca, I feel very fortunate that I have both.

bajagrouper - 6-22-2009 at 10:02 PM

Hola Lee, I have been traveling through out Mexico most of my life, a year before I was to retire I took 2 months off work ( built up vacation and sick leave ) to trip around Mexico looking for a good spot to buy a home, I found a beautiful colonial home in the historic district in Merida but it was March and 94 degrees and it was before the humid / rainy time of the year…

I then visited the area around San Miguel Allende, to many gringos and very expensive and to hilly for these old knees…I checked out Mazatlan and Tonala then I remembered I had driven to Puerto Vallarta for my honeymoon in 1969 and enjoyed the coastal area to the north, I took a bus from Guadalajara to PV rented a car and headed north…there was green everywhere, coco palms along the beaches, fruit trees all over, friendly people, both local and ex-pats alike…it was like the garden of edan…I found a small 2 BR house on a 15 x 35 meter lot in a residential area, the garden has 10 different fruit trees, below ground plunge pool and 5 meter long outdoor kitchen I built…

Everything grows in Nayarit, the state and federal government is in the process of building the second highest dam in the world ( +700 meters high )along the border of Nayarit and Jalisco, power stations, lakes for recreation lots of water for the future. So those are some of the reasons I picked the area, plus it is 3 hours away by air from my home in San Francisco, and I drive down in 3 days…Bajagrouper

Eli - 6-23-2009 at 07:53 AM

Yes Diane, I am most fortunate. And so are you that you may know both places.

I sometimes reflect on what the dickens I would do if I had to make a choice between Baja and Oaxaca.

I do know that when it is time to come home to Baja, every day for the last week or so I start counting the days; 7 more nights and I will be home in my own bed, 6 more days and I will be able to take a shower in my own beautiful bathroom, 5 more nights and I will see the stars again, 4 more mornings and I will see the sun rising off the Sea of Cortez, 3 more days and hopefully Tio Cat will be meowing Grammmms at me, (although my grandson always puts out food and water for him, my cat pretty much disappears when I leave and is a bit lean when I return, I wonder where he hangs when I am gone?), anyway, two more afternoons and I will be hugging my family at the airport, just one more day and night I will finally be HOME sweet home!

As much as I Love Oaxaca, I do not feel the anxiousness to go there that I do feel about coming back to Baja.

[Edited on 6-23-2009 by Eli]

MitchMan - 6-24-2009 at 07:26 AM

Bajagrouper,
I used to love Puerto Vallarta. I liked the warm and very tropical weather and environment. When I was working in financial business out of Newport Beach, Ca, we used to take corporate retreats there in the 90's. Second to last time I was there, I stayed at the Garden Krystal for its beauty, serenity, and proximity. Loved it. Then, when I got married recently, we picked PV for our honeymoon based on my previous experience there.

Well, let me tell you. PV has turned into another Tourist Trap. My wife and I stayed at the Krystal - even that had changed as they put a bunch of lousy ugly bungalows where gardens and unobstructed walkways had once been. Walking into and thru town was the usual Cabo experience where people will acost you on the street to come into their restaurant or to strong arm you into buying a resort condo. These people are actually yelling at you as you walk by. Complete change from 8 years ago and before.

There are three places in Mexico I will not revisit ever again due to their rank commercialism: Mazatlan, Cabo San Lucas, and now Puerto Vallarta. Very sad for me. Haven't been back to Acapulco for a while, but I'm skeptical.

bajagrouper - 6-24-2009 at 08:20 AM

Hola MitchMan, Your reasons are very valad, you could have added Cancun to your list...that is way I am 40 miles north of the airport in a small beach town, no timeshare seller on my beach,jajaja...last year I drove from Sparks home in Maleque to PV in less than 3 hours, the 40 miles through PV to Guayabitos took 2 hours, traffic in PV is horrible...but it does have about 10 good hospitals and an International airport with mucho flights to the USA every day...

roamingthroughbaja - 6-25-2009 at 06:50 AM

Before we bought our lot in Centenario, we drove around on the mainland to make sure that we really wanted to settle in Baja. We drove down the west coast of the sea of Cortez, inland as far as Guadulajara, came back to the sea south of PV and then across on the ferry back to Baja towing our trailer all the way. It was a great trip and we did find places we loved.

One in particular, Teacapan, is a small fishing village on an estuary which is part of one of Mexico's largest protected areas. It was lovely, great fishing, friendly, fun and generous people, very cheap to live, the best bakery ever....we had almost decided that this was the place when the bugs hit. Mosquitos, no see ums, biting flies. Turns out there are only a few bug free weeks per year and we hit the last of them when we arrived.

That decided us on the La Paz area. We are very happy here in our little house. Relatively few bitey bugs, cooler in the summer, but we often think of Teacapan when we are fighting the traffic or listening to the trucks on the highway.

oldlady - 6-25-2009 at 07:03 AM

Fighting the traffic??????????? You crack me up!

MitchMan - 6-25-2009 at 07:38 AM

roamingthroughbaja

I like the way and the process that you went thru to decide on where to get a house in Mexico/Baja. I kind of did the same process...went to mainland and up and down the baja. Decided on Loreto. Bought some lots, but couldn't find anybody to build my house for a reasonable and realistic price.

All the Loreto contractors were so full of themselves because they were getting so much work and because Loreto Bay was attracting (seemingly anyway) a lot of monied Americans and Canadians to the area. Plus, all the local labor was empolyed in Loreto Bay. So, I went to La Paz. Prices for real estate were 50% to 75% cheaper! Especially in the Chametla and Centenario area. I got an unbelievable deal on a relatively new house on a great big lot, three miles from the airport and 10 minutes from the Malecon. Hell, they even built me a Walmart about 7 minutes away from my house.

Finding building materials, hardware, parts and accessories, furniture and fixtures, skilled and unskilled labor to work on my house is absolutely no problem in La Paz.

La Paz has great fishing just like Loreto, more administrative services and medical care, movie theaters, tons of restaurants, universities, and possibly the best malecon in Mexico. La Paz has it all!

Having said all this, I still would prefer to be in Loreto.

k-rico - 6-25-2009 at 08:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by roamingthroughbaja
One in particular, Teacapan, is a small fishing village ...we had almost decided that this was the place when the bugs hit. Mosquitos, no see ums, biting flies. Turns out there are only a few bug free weeks per year and we hit the last of them when we arrived.


Biting bugs are a big drawback to the mainland coast. It's BAD. And, both my dogs got infested with fleas and ticks, my fault tho, I neglected to treat them with Frontline before we left. But biting bugs of every kind are there, and we went at the end of the dry season when you would think they would be at a minimum.

Of course tolerance to blood sucking pests with poisonous saliva that lay eggs under you skin and prevent you from having a good night's sleep differs among us. At least malaria and yellow fever mosquitos have been eradicated and haven't returned, yet.

Teacapan:

teacapan.jpg - 25kB