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Gun In Mexico

Cypress - 7-10-2009 at 04:57 PM

My thoughts? Don't be caught with a gun in Mexico, regardless who you bought it from. :biggrin:

Oso - 7-10-2009 at 05:09 PM

I hunt with Mexicans who have the legal right to own guns. (Of course I'm only along for the ride with no gun of my own) It's highly regulated, usually involves belonging to a hunt club, only certain calibers, etc. etc. But Mexicans do have a legal right to bear arms.

DENNIS - 7-10-2009 at 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeLikeBaja
Yes, So do People living in Mexico with a FM2 or higher. In an urban area, you can have a gun no bigger then a 380 auto / 38 revolver

You can't have a gun. They don't want you, or anybody else to have a gun. If you want to have a gun, smuggle one in and keep it hidden and don't talk about it. No second ammendment here....just a heavy law which states "You can't have a gun."

Von - 7-10-2009 at 07:54 PM

I 2nd what
Dennis said..........And Im a Mexicano........

Dave - 7-10-2009 at 08:27 PM

I know lots of gringos who have guns, very few legally. The process is so convoluted/iffy that only the well connected have obtained permits. Especially now.

Used to be you could join a gun club and obtain a limited permit. You'd also need a permit prior to purchasing from a licensed dealer. Ammo is also heavily regulated. As tough or tougher to get than the pistol.

What Dennis proposes is now extremely risky. ATF has random inspections leading into Mexico and the Mexican government is currently upgrading security at its border crossings.

If you're 'in the know' you can easily purchase handguns here illegally but they're more than likely to have been used in the commission of a crime. God help you if you got caught carrying one. And if you don't carry...What's the point?

Good luck.

Von - 7-10-2009 at 08:30 PM

Just keep it at home for target practice on some locals no im kidding on the ladrones for the thieves...........I would never be cought driving around Mexico with a gun just for the hell of it that is not wise.....

postholedigger - 7-10-2009 at 08:40 PM

Who's home are you invading?

DENNIS - 7-10-2009 at 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
What Dennis proposes is now extremely risky. ATF has random inspections leading into Mexico

I've never seen one at Tecate. It doesn't matter though. I'm not suggesting the smuggling of hand guns. Only that it's the only way that comes to mind if someone wants one. Buying one off the streets seems more dangerous unless you know who you're dealing with.

I think I'm out of this discussion.

A poor choice

Dave - 7-10-2009 at 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeLikeBaja
just for home invasion

Home invasion would be the least of my concerns. And a handgun, unless you were proficient, would be virtually useless. A shotgun would be better. Baseball bat or lead pipe, better still. Still, if you killed someone, regardless of circumstance, you'd be in a world of ****.

Most thieves aren't armed and know enough to burgle when you aren't home. Those that carry weapons rarely bother with residential robbery. Kidnappers are well armed and act in force. You wouldn't stand a chance regardless of what you had in hand.

My experience here has been that unless you're a 'high profile' target...ostentatious display of wealth,a need to carry large amounts of cash or received threats etc, owning a gun is risky business.

fernando - 7-10-2009 at 09:40 PM

the legal way to have a gun in Mexico is to buy a registered gun from someone and belong to a shooting range club (there is a couple in Ensenmada and TJ) and then you go to the military to register your gun. A regular person dont have permison to carry a gun everywhere but you can get (with ther right influence, or credentials) a permison to have the gun with you at all times (permiso de portacion de armas).

Saludos

arrowhead - 7-10-2009 at 09:58 PM

The only difference for a Gringo between having a legal gun or an illegal gun in Mexico is how much jail time you'll do if you ever shoot anyone. Either way you are going to jail. That's just the Mexican attitude about a Gringo shooting one of their carnales, no matter how much he deserved it.

woody with a view - 7-10-2009 at 11:29 PM

have gun, will shred!

Salsi 3 12-10-83.jpg - 44kB

woody with a view - 7-10-2009 at 11:35 PM

yo tengo portacion de armas, compa....

goin.jpg - 43kB

Here's an accounting of a shooting I was involved with last year

jeans - 7-11-2009 at 12:24 AM

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=31906#pid327731

Pescador - 7-11-2009 at 09:19 AM

There is someone I know fairly well who decided that he really needed to be armed (possibly because he has a fairly "explosive" personality) and he carried a pistol carefully hidden in his pickup. Unfortunately for him, the pistol was discovered on a random check by the military and he ended up spending several days in jail while his wife camped out in the truck at the jail. He had to go to court in La Paz and after paying almost $12,000 US in fines he was put on a one year probation where he had to report back to La Paz on a monthly basis to see his parole officer and fill out a bunch of forms. With attorney, translator, assistant, I am sure he was way ober $15,000 to $18,000 plus he was not allowed to leave Baja California Sur for the whole time of his probation.
Now if this sounds like a good time then I would say go for it.

Oso - 7-11-2009 at 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeLikeBaja

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeLikeBaja

Quote:

Originally posted by woody in ob
yo tengo portacion de armas, compa....

en Mexico? la verdad?

He's talking about his surfboard, i.e., "big gun".

Mexican Guns

MrBillM - 7-11-2009 at 10:39 AM

My only experience with a "Legal" gun happened at the El Chinero Army Checkpoint.

The Mexican in front of me was talking to the soldier when he handed him some paperwork and the Soldier looked startled. He ordered the man out of the car and called over his officer. The driver then went to the trunk and came out with a revolver wrapped in a rag. The officer looked at it, looked at the paperwork, talked to the driver and then walked off to consult with HIS superior. Finally, they both came out, talked to the driver some more before handing him back his gun and papers and letting him go on his way.

It was interesting to watch (once anyway).

Any Gringos tried this LATELY?

Dave - 7-11-2009 at 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fernando
the legal way to have a gun in Mexico is to buy a registered gun from someone and belong to a shooting range club (there is a couple in Ensenmada and TJ) and then you go to the military to register your gun. A regular person dont have permison to carry a gun everywhere but you can get (with ther right influence, or credentials) a permison to have the gun with you at all times (permiso de portacion de armas).

Saludos

Have a friend who has a loaded, carry permit. The Attorney General of baja got him an introduction with the commander of the army base in TJ.

Piece of cake, right. :rolleyes:

I know of several gringos who have, or had, tacit approval from the Rosarito chief of police to have weapons in their homes. A tenuous position, at best. If the chief knows, I'll bet the entire force knows. Might as well paint a target on your back.

Used to be that the Charros could carry weapons. Know of one gringo who is a member. But I'll bet that's changed.

Don't know what the situation is now regarding gun clubs, carry permits and ammo. Jeans could probably fill us in.

Russ - 7-11-2009 at 12:00 PM

Three options come to mind instead of a pistol. They're probable all illegal but you should be able to talk yourself out of trouble...
Ram Set, Dummy launcher, and flare pistol. I've had all three but never considered them for protection. Except the dummy launcher when camping alone.

Paladin - 7-11-2009 at 01:06 PM

Most flare guns shoot a 2 1/2 12 guage shell as apposed to the shortest regular 12 guage of 2 3/4 inch.

Flare guns have all sorts of different types of flares.

Maybe (if you know something about reloading) you could take the "flare" out of the flare cartridge and replace it with a bunch of size 8's...or 4's...or whatever...reseal and guess what??

Now you have one heck of a close range scatter gun.

It might not do the same damage as 3 inch magnum double ought Buck but it would spoil someones day and

STOP THE THREAT

Paladin - 7-11-2009 at 01:10 PM

Pescador

Your friend that got caught...if you know, what type of pistol did he have???

I'm under the impression the penalties for a 22 revolver would be quite different than a 45 auto

Flare Pistol

MrBillM - 7-11-2009 at 01:11 PM

The Flare Pistol has always been my choice AND I've been inspected with it and Never questioned. My (unused) argument over possession without a boat would be that it is in case I break down offroad. Since the Soldiers never seemed interested, I never got to try it.

You could always carry along one of those cheap Blowup Boats to make it look better. Or not.

Perhaps, it's just the movies, but I have the impression that an unaltered flare round would likely be fatal so why bother with it ?

Dave - 7-11-2009 at 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paladin
Pescador

Your friend that got caught...if you know, what type of pistol did he have???

I'm under the impression the penalties for a 22 revolver would be quite different than a 45 auto

A 22 and you should get off with a fine. Anything over and it's federal. Go directly to jail.

Understand that this is just theory. What ultimately happens depends on their mood...and your money. :rolleyes:

Clarification:

I'm talking illegal weapons here. A citizen can legally own up to a 38 CAL. 'Specials', 357 and 9mm are not included as they are considered police/military rounds. Get caught with anything over and you won't see the light of day for a long, long time.

[Edited on 7-11-2009 by Dave]

Pescador - 7-11-2009 at 02:06 PM

Quote:

Very clear here, not my friend ! Someone I know fairly well, and if my memory serves me right it was either a 38 special or a 9 mm. But the discussion by the legal people in Loreto was that it did not make any difference.
The biggest point I was trying to make is that I have seen so many people in all the years I have travelled and lived in Mexico who assume that Mexico is just like the United States only they speak a different language. This is so in error that it never ceases to amaze me. Just because you can carry a gun everywhere in the United States has absolutely no reflection on what goes on in Mexico and our interpretation of 22 vs. large caliber is a distinction I would hate to try to make.
One year we were at the very north end of Mag Bay and when we came back in to La Paz for Christmas, we found out my mother had passed away so we left the next morning for the border. At Guerrero Negro we were going through the military check and they found an old shotgun shell that had rolled back into the truck seat track and was hidden from my normal inspection. We spent exactly 5 hours there while they tore apart the whole camper, the kayaks on top, and all our luggage even though I speak spanish and explained that it was a low brass shell only good for dove hunting. They found it hard to believe that the government in the United States was so lackluster that they would allow the citizens to go around with guns to go hunting. They knew, from their own experience, that rich men do that in a sporting way, but it was very hard to believe that an average citizen had that right.

Thanks Lady, that was the way I see it in Central Mexico.

beercan - 7-11-2009 at 03:00 PM

Quote:

By Jeans
Here's an accounting of a shooting I was involved with last year http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=31906#pid3277... Mom always told me to be different

Paladin - 7-12-2009 at 10:38 AM

Pescador
As usual, thanks for your information and advice. As an insurance broker, I have been providing risk management advice for 35 years. Much of it has nothing to do with actually selling a bunch of paper that insurance companies can't read or follow. It's just handy to know your options and the consequences.
I am acutely aware that Mexico is a different country...I would also mention to all my gun owning friends out there from states other than California. Our laws here a very different in many areas than the other free states.

There are a number of guns OK in Arizona that you better not get caught with here. One of mine that I have to be careful with is an old WWII 30 Cal M-1 Carbine. As soon as I trade original stock to a new folding stock I am now a bad bad criminal. AR and NV, no problem.

As for old spent cartridges, I have to be careful also. My old 4Runner has 22 cases all over the place from squirrel hunting. Yes we shoot out of the vehicle sometimes while on the ranch. Don't forget Paladin comes from Paladin Rodent Control, The Ranchers Best Friend, Licensed, Insured & EPA Approved. I sure hope someone is laughing. :lol:

What I really want is for my retirement account to let me go to San Bruno PRONTO

Udo - 7-12-2009 at 10:49 AM

The CBP and perhaps ATF are conducting random vehicle searches before entering Mexico. :barf:

However, it appears that they will have a new weapon along this same line: I don't remember where I read it, but they are planning on installing some kind of X-RAY machine to scan vehicles that will show all items in the vehicles entering Mexico. The funding is in place, however, I don't recall how soon they are planning on implementing it. :yawn:

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
What Dennis proposes is now extremely risky. ATF has random inspections leading into Mexico and the Mexican government is currently upgrading security at its border crossings.

Good luck.

[Edited on 7-12-2009 by udowinkler]

jack - 7-12-2009 at 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
The Flare Pistol has always been my choice AND I've been inspected with it and Never questioned. My (unused) argument over possession without a boat would be that it is in case I break down offroad. Since the Soldiers never seemed interested, I never got to try it.

You could always carry along one of those cheap Blowup Boats to make it look better. Or not.

Perhaps, it's just the movies, but I have the impression that an unaltered flare round would likely be fatal so why bother with it ?

Don't put too much faith in that flare gun. We took a bunch of flares out with a Defender shotgun that has an 18" barrel length. We shot the flares at a 3/16" thick piece of plywood from 15 feet away. The flares only made a dent in the plywood with no burn marks at all. If you shot one at an attacker, that's all you do is pee him off and possibly make the situation even worse.

Cypress - 7-12-2009 at 12:57 PM

Jeez. Pop a perp in the belly with a flare and they'll stumble around for a minute or two. :biggrin:

Sorta makes 'em wish they hadn't did what they did. :yes:

Udo - 7-12-2009 at 01:51 PM

Our local Sheriffs, CHP and many neighbors know I own some weapons. Plus, the house is wired and all corners videotaped and monitored.
My profile is all over the internet anyway. I have nothing to hide, and last I heard guns are still legal to own in the US.

DENNIS - 7-12-2009 at 02:50 PM

I bought one of these and It'll be in Wednesday's mail. Better than nothing, I suppose. I can't wait to use it.

http://www.stungunsupply.com/product/mace-dragon-fire-pepper...

I wouldn't worry much

Dave - 7-12-2009 at 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
Yes but you said you're carrying into Mexico, which is breaking the law.
[Edited on 7-12-2009 by k-rico]

It's the Mexican national sport. :rolleyes:

Skeet/Loreto - 7-12-2009 at 03:49 PM

Does any of the Posters know of anyone who has been "Padded Down" for a Weapon by any Soldier at any Stops????
Skeet

jeans - 7-12-2009 at 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Don't know what the situation is now regarding gun clubs, carry permits and ammo. Jeans could probably fill us in.

The head of the gun club is Bernabe Hernandez Armas, who is also our insurance agent. He was thrilled when mom told him of the post I made and wanted it to be known that more Americanos are welcome to apply for membership and get involved. My step-dad has said they have turned down those who do not have ties to Rosarito and are just wanting to carry. It was over 20 years ago they joined and the approval process was quite lengthy then.
You can find Bernie in the Rosarito phone book - Bernie's Mexican Insurance.

bernies1 at prodigy.net.mx 661 612-1028

Bajahowodd - 7-12-2009 at 05:30 PM

Most of the rest of the industrialized world scratches their heads about Americans preoccupation with weapons. Folks. The Indians are on the reservations. I have never understood how a society that considers itself a beacon of freedom seems to need personal weapons to ensure that beacon. I've always had the philosposphy that since I don't trust you to have a gun, I assume you don't trust me. Nut jobs who are worried about the cops or the government seem to prevail. Truth is that an educated society should not have to withstand concealed weapons in public spaces.

Do you mistrust the military? Do you mistrust your police? Statististic have proven over and over that guns are way more likely to kill the owner than a criminal.

OK. Bring it on!

jeans - 7-12-2009 at 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
Originally posted by jeans:

"The head of the gun club is Bernabe Hernandez Armas..."

Yeah...I caught that!

And lest there be confusion on what kind of insurance someone would sell in Mexico, his is Bernie's Mexican Insurance...

baja weenie is spouting his usual drivel--without any justification

beercan - 7-12-2009 at 09:25 PM

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/offenses/expanded_informatio...

Law enforcement reported 645 justifiable homicides in 2007. Of those, law enforcement officers justifiably killed 391 individuals, and private citizens justifiably killed 254 individuals.

FABLE I: A gun in the home makes the home less safe.

Firearms are used three to five times more often to stop crimes than to commit them,1 and accidents with firearms are at an all-time recorded low.2 In spite of this, anti-firearm activists insist that the very act of keeping a firearm in the home puts family members at risk, often claiming that a gun in the home is "43 times" more likely to be used to kill a family member than an intruder, based upon a study by anti-gun researchers of firearm-related deaths in homes in King County (Seattle), Washington.3 Although Arthur Kellermann and Donald Reay originally warned that their study was of a single non-representative county and noted that they failed to consider protective uses of firearms that did not result in criminals being killed, anti-gun groups and activists use the "43 times" claim without explaining the limitations of the study or how the ratio was derived.

To produce the misleading ratio from the study, the only defensive or protective uses of firearms that were counted were those in which criminals were killed by would-be crime victims. This is the most serious of the study's flaws, since fatal shootings of criminals occur in only a fraction of 1% of protective firearm uses nationwide.4 Survey research by award-winning Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck, has shown that firearms are used for protection as many as 2.5 million times annually.5

It should come as no surprise that Kleck's findings are reflexively dismissed by "gun control" groups, but a leading anti-gun criminologist was honest enough to acknowledge their validity. "I am as strong a gun-control advocate as can be found among the criminologists in this country," wrote the late Marvin E. Wolfgang. "I would eliminate all guns from the civilian population and maybe even from the police. . . . What troubles me is the article by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz. The reason I am troubled is that they have provided an almost clear-cut case of methodologically sound research in support of something I have theoretically opposed for years, namely, the use of a gun in defense against a criminal perpetrator. . . . I do not like their conclusions that having a gun can be useful, but I cannot fault their methodology."6

While the "43 times" claim is commonly used to suggest that murders and accidents are likely to occur with guns kept at home, suicides accounted for 37 of every 43 firearm-related deaths in the King County study. Nationwide, 58% of firearm-related deaths are suicides,7 a problem which is not solved by gun laws aimed at denying firearms to criminals. "Gun control" advocates would have the public believe that armed citizens often accidentally kill family members, mistaking them for criminals. But such incidents constitute less than 2% of fatal firearms accidents, or about one for every 90,000 defensive gun uses.8

In spite of the demonstrated flaws in his research, Kellermann continued to promote the idea that a gun is inherently dangerous to own. In 1993, he and a number of colleagues presented a study that claimed to show that a home with a gun was much more likely to experience a homicide.9

This study, too, was seriously flawed. Kellermann studied only homes where homicides had taken place--ignoring the millions of homes with firearms where no harm is done--and used a control group unrepresentative of American households. By looking only at homes where homicides had occurred and failing to control for more pertinent variables, such as prior criminal record or histories of violence, Kellermann et al. skewed the results of this study. After reviewing the study, Prof. Kleck noted that Kellermann's methodology is analogous to proving that since diabetics are much more likely to possess insulin than non-diabetics, possession of insulin is a risk factor for diabetes. Even Dr. Kellermann admitted, "It is possible that reverse causation accounted for some of the association we observed between gun ownership and homicide." Northwestern University Law Professor Daniel D. Polsby went further, writing, "Indeed the point is stronger than that: 'reverse causation' may account for most of the association between gun ownership and homicide. Kellermann's data simply do not allow one to draw any conclusion."10

FABLE VI: Since firearm accidents are a large and growing problem, we need laws mandating how people store their firearms.

1. National Safety Council, Accident Facts: 2001 Edition, pp. 40-41.

2. National Center for Health Statistics.

3. Population: Bureau of the Census; firearms: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms; accidents, National Center for Health Statistics.

4. National Center for Health Statistics.

5. For example, Children's Defense Fund PSAs aired during the late 1990s.

6. Kleck, Targeting Guns, pp. 299-300.

FABLE XIII: Foreign countries such as England and Japan have much less crime than the U.S. because of their stronger gun laws.

1. John van Kesteren, Pat Mayhew and Paul Nieuwbeerta, "Criminal Victimization in Seventeen Industrialized Countries: Key findings from the 2000 International Crime Victims Survey," the Hague, Ministry of Justice, WODC, Onderzoek en beleid, nr. 187, 2000.

2. A. Travis, "England and Wales Top Crime League," the Guardian, Feb. 23, 2001.

3. David Leppard and Rachel Dobson, "Murder rate soars to highest for a century," Sunday Times, Oct. 13, 2002.

4. B. Brady and S. Fraser, "Prompted by the Shootings in Germany, Tony Blair Orders Crackdown on Convertible Airguns," Scotsman on Sunday, April 28, 2002.

5. Criminal Justice System website, "Justice for All," CJS White Paper, July 2002. See: http://www.cjsonline.org/library/pdf/CJS_whitepaper.pdf

6. David Kopel, The Samurai, The Mountie, and the Cowboy: Should America Adopt the Gun Controls of Other Democracies?, Prometheus Books, 1992, pp. 431-32.

7. "Gun Laws Around the World: Do They Work?," The American Guardian, Oct., 1997.

mtgoat666 - 7-12-2009 at 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by beercan
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/offenses/expanded_informatio...

Law enforcement reported 645 justifiable homicides in 2007. Of those, law enforcement officers justifiably killed 391 individuals, and private citizens justifiably killed 254 individuals.

"law enforcement officers justifiably killed 391 individuals"

beercan,
the first sentence of your cut-and-paste pablum fell flat as soon as I read that. cops never admit unjustifiable killing unless they got caught on videotape.
stats collected by law enforcement only tell what law enforcement wants to tell.
funny how you distrust "governmentt", but have total trust law enforcement and military.

Bajahowodd - 7-13-2009 at 01:45 PM

There's another unrelated current thread that has brought up a common issue to this one: penis issues.

DENNIS - 7-13-2009 at 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
There's another unrelated current thread that has brought up a common issue to this one: penis issues.

As in, Discharge? OhhhhLordy....Get help quickly. First the seeping, then......... the fire. You will not like this.

Bajahowodd - 7-13-2009 at 02:06 PM

Sounds more like a soup taco.

Cypress - 7-13-2009 at 02:19 PM

Bajahowodd, You associate guns with penises and soup? :?:

Those are some odd associations.

Bet you also vote accordingly.

Bajahowodd - 7-13-2009 at 02:28 PM

I vote my conscience. Soup has too much sodium.

pwrslider - 7-14-2009 at 12:49 PM

I carry for a living....and would never even think of bringing one to Mexico.....not even a bullet.

But I'm never without my speargun in Baja! Much more damage that a .22 but you only get one shot.

DENNIS - 7-14-2009 at 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pwrslider
I carry for a living....and would never even think of bringing one to Mexico.....not even a bullet.

But I'm never without my speargun in Baja! Much more damage that a .22 but you only get one shot.

How about those power heads for spear guns? I suppose they're on the sht-list as well.