BajaNomad - Canadian VISA for Mexicans

Canadian VISA for Mexicans

BajaGeoff - 7-14-2009 at 12:49 PM

Do you know how much it costs and the duration of the time the visa is good for?

DianaT - 7-14-2009 at 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by redmesa
Mexicans are now required to have a tourist visa to enter Canada. Canada's open border to our Mexican neighbours has always pleased me so it is with regret that I am passing along this news.

I read a quick headline about that, but not the details. How, where and how difficult will it be?

I read that it was about concern over immigration???

Thanks
Diane

DENNIS - 7-14-2009 at 01:09 PM

Does Canada have a fence? Maybe Canada needs a fence.

Concern Over Illegal Immigration

CaboRon - 7-14-2009 at 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter

Quote:

I read a quick headline about that, but not the details. How, where and how difficult will it be?

I read that it was about concern over immigration???

Thanks
Diane

shari - 7-14-2009 at 01:50 PM

that truly sucks...it was so nice for friends and family to just show up and be welcomed by canadian customs...crap.

arrowhead - 7-14-2009 at 02:07 PM

If you read the Canadian newspapers about this, you will learn that the reason for the change is the 10,000 or so Mexican "toruists" per year who are applying for asylum in Canada. So it is not just the visa and the fee that is going to cut down visits by Mexicans to Canada.

Now the Mexicans are going to have to pass the same smell test at the Canadian embassy in Mexico as they do at the American embassy for a visa. This will probably cut tourism to Canada from Mexico way down.

DENNIS - 7-14-2009 at 02:15 PM

Maybe someone can enlighten me as I really don't know how it works at the US/Canada border. I've never been there.
Is the issue today Mexicans flying or boating in or is it Mexicans crossing from the US or is it all of the above?
What was required for Mexican land crossers prior to this new rule?
What is required for US land crossers today?
Are Mexicans being more inconvenienced than US tourists?
Is it the same?

Tell me, please.

DENNIS - 7-14-2009 at 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
the reason for the change is the 10,000 or so Mexican "toruists" per year who are applying for asylum in Canada.

I have to assume these desperate folks are "Sin Papeles" and Canada wants to end their "God-Given right" to migrate at the US/Canada border.
Is this correct?

arrowhead - 7-14-2009 at 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
I have to assume these desperate folks are "Sin Papeles" and Canada wants to end their "God-Given right" to migrate at the US/Canada border.
Is this correct?

Nope. Mexicans with a passport can fly direct from Mexico to Canada without a visa -- well at least they could before. To travel by land through the US they also had to get a US visa.

flyfishinPam - 7-14-2009 at 04:38 PM

Quote:

huh? why are you regretful? Mexico has always required a tourist visa for foreign visitors Canadians included, our borders are not open so now we're even.

DENNIS - 7-14-2009 at 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
Mexicans with a passport can fly direct from Mexico to Canada without a visa -- well at least they could before. To travel by land through the US they also had to get a US visa.

OK...What's the problem? Isn't the stamp in the passport the visa? Am I to understand they need a seperate document to accompany a passport to enter Canada and the US?
It makes no sense.

jorgie - 7-14-2009 at 05:04 PM

prior to this Mexicans entering Canada as tourists did not need a visa for a period tourist visit of six months . These folks were not seeking to stay in Canada . Asylum is what many Mexicans are seeking , citizenship .
Canadians are not required to have a visa for tourist travel in Mexico for a period not to exceed six months . [ Mexican embassy Ottawa ]
American do not need a visa to enter Canada but are now required to carry a valid passport or the new inhanced boarder pass . Canadians must carry the same to enter the U.S.A There is no limit on time for Americans or Canadians . Czechs also now need a visa to enter Canada .

arrowhead - 7-15-2009 at 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
Now the Mexicans are going to have to pass the same smell test at the Canadian embassy in Mexico as they do at the American embassy for a visa. This will probably cut tourism to Canada from Mexico way down.

Just as I predicted:

Quote:

Caos en embajada de Canadá

En la embajada de Canadá en México persiste desconcierto y caos ante la gran cantidad de personas que buscan obtener una visa, tras el anuncio del Gobierno de ese país que establece este requisito para los mexicanos que pretendan viajar a ese punto de Norteamérica.

The article says there is caos and bewilderment at the Canadian Embassy in Mexico as a large number of people seek visas to enter Canada after the announcement by the Canadian government of the need for Mexicans to first obtain a visa to travel to Canada.

DENNIS - 7-15-2009 at 11:03 AM

By coincidence, my neighbor was at the Canada consulate in Los Angeles just yesterday. He said the place was crowded, which it probably always is and the predominant nationality present to get assistance was Chinese. From the looks of things, rice commodities would be worth looking into on the Canadian market.

Oh yeah....you folks up there had better lock up your sled dogs.

JESSE - 7-15-2009 at 02:35 PM

This is not new, Canada has required you show proof that you will go back to Mexico, and show you have money to provide for yourself for a long time. If you didn't have any, you usually would be denied entrance and sent back.

This only makes it easier for travelers and authorities, they can take care of this screening process before, and not right at the port of entry.

Too bad for those that had other reasons to enter Canada.

shari - 7-15-2009 at 02:52 PM

when Juan went to canada, at the airport immigration they just asked to see his return ticket and bing bang bong...welcome to canada!

Forget about going now as he would have to make an appointment, go to a canadian embassy (which would cost alot), pay alot for the appointment so the cost would triple for a trip which would already be costly for us....dang.

norte - 7-15-2009 at 03:06 PM

Maybe Mexico aught to start requiring the same paper work... and start deporting the many individuals living there illegally. We in the US have no problem requiring it.

DENNIS - 7-15-2009 at 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by norte
Maybe Mexico aught to start requiring the same paper work... and start deporting the many individuals living there illegally. We in the US have no problem requiring it.

Please tell me you're kidding. The US only requires proper paperwork from those Mexicans who go to the office. All others, and there are quite a few, get along well without it and, in fact, the way things are looking, will have proper paperwork awarded to them.
Let's try to see the whole picture while we're looking at it.

I agree with your idea that Mexico should enforce their laws. Unfortunately, if Mexico starts enforceing laws, the US may have to respond in kind.

No No No....we can't have that, can we.

norte - 7-15-2009 at 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by norte
Maybe Mexico aught to start requiring the same paper work... and start deporting the many individuals living there illegally. We in the US have no problem requiring it.

Just pointing out how things go both ways. Personally, I would love it if things were enforced on both sides.

DENNIS - 7-15-2009 at 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by norte
Just pointing out how things go both ways. Personally, I would love it if things were enforced on both sides.

I guess it's safe to assume you're not a landscapeing or cement contractor. :lol:

CaboRon - 7-15-2009 at 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by norte
Just pointing out how things go both ways. Personally, I would love it if things were enforced on both sides.

I guess it's safe to assume you're not a landscapeing or cement contractor. :lol:

norte - 7-15-2009 at 07:46 PM

Maybe they should check and see how the USod A does it and learn. HAAAAAA

arrowhead - 7-16-2009 at 09:36 AM

Today's newspaper explains what a Mexican has to present to the Canadian embassy in order to get a tourist visa.

A medical examination, a clean police report, and a biography of the applicant with information on his family structure. It all has to be in English or French!!

Quote:

A diferencia de lo que se solicita para ingresar a Estados Unidos, los interesados en viajar a Canadá deben de entregar en inglés o francés la documentación.

La página oficial de la embajada previene sobre la necesidad de tramitar una constancia de no antecedentes penales, un examen médico y una biografía del solicitante con “información de la estructura familiar”.

Buenos suerte, amigos.

[Edited on 7-16-2009 by arrowhead]

DENNIS - 7-16-2009 at 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
Today's newspaper explains what a Mexican has to present to the Canadian embassy in order to get a tourist visa.

Do they have do all this each time? Jeezo...What a bunch of nasty crap.

JESSE - 7-16-2009 at 03:40 PM

The Mexican goverment just announced all Canadian diplomats and goverment workers traveling to Mexico, must now show a Mexican Visa.

All other Canadian Citizens, do not need one.

Bajahowodd - 7-16-2009 at 04:03 PM

One thing that I have despised is that for Mexicans whose income is but a fraction of that in the US, the US fee on a visa application is non-refundable. That being said, if dozens of diverse countries in Europe can codify so many issues, including a common currency, how sad is it that the three nations occupying North America can't agree on a consistent practice as to requirements and fees? Sad to think that the Europeans are more evolved on such issues.

[Edited on 7-16-2009 by Bajahowodd]

DENNIS - 7-16-2009 at 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
One thing that I have despised is that for Mexicans whose income is but a fraction of that in the US, the US fee on a visa application is non-refundable.

Does Mexico refund application fees?

JESSE - 7-16-2009 at 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
One thing that I have despised is that for Mexicans whose income is but a fraction of that in the US, the US fee on a visa application is non-refundable.

Does Mexico refund application fees?

Fees for a Mexican Visa are extremely low compared to what a Mexican loses when his application is not authorized. How would you feel if you lost 1,000 dollars or more if the Mexican goverment denied your application?

That is what a Mexican feels like.

Bajahowodd - 7-16-2009 at 04:47 PM

Thank you, Jesse.

DENNIS - 7-16-2009 at 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
That is what a Mexican feels like.

OK.... I'm drowning in tears.
Let me ask again....Does Mexico refund applications?

Yes or no.......

JESSE - 7-16-2009 at 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
That is what a Mexican feels like.

OK.... I'm drowning in tears.
Let me ask again....Does Mexico refund applications?

Yes or no.......

Yes or no does not matter. The point is, if you lose your money on a Mexican application, its just 300 dollars or half a weeks worth of work for somebody making 600 dollars a week. If your making 1000 pesos a week or its equivalent, 80 dollars. Your losing almost a months worth of work.

3 days vs 30 days is more than a significant difference that cannot be ignored with "drowning on tears" remarks.

An American would have to lose 2,400 dollars on an application in order to understand the economic impact this has on the average Mexican.

[Edited on 7-17-2009 by JESSE]

longlegsinlapaz - 7-16-2009 at 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Does Mexico refund applications?

Yes or no.......

NO!

DENNIS - 7-16-2009 at 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Does Mexico refund applications?

Yes or no.......

NO!

Uncalled for violence in your response. Would you please edit your bellowing with a pleasant blue or green color? It would be more in line with the civil conversation we're [not you] are having.
Thank you for your consideration.

DENNIS - 7-16-2009 at 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Yes or no does not matter. The point is, if you lose your money on a Mexican application, its just 300 dollars or half a weeks worth of work for somebody making 600 dollars a week. If your making 1000 pesos a week or its equivalent, 80 dollars. Your losing almost a months worth of work.

3 days vs 30 days is more than a significant difference that cannot be ignored with "drowning on tears" remarks.

An American would have to lose 2,400 dollars on an application in order to understand the economic impact this has on the average Mexican.

I think that's all pure, self-serving bullcrap. You're taking the lower end of the Mexico economic scale and applying it to all Mexicans crossing the border. That isn't the case and you gawwdam well know it.
The middle class in Mexico has come alive in huge numbers and have money to function much like her counterparts in the US. I live amongst you folks and I see little difference in economic levels between myself and the thousands of others who shop at WalMart, Costco and Home Depot. Credit cards everywhere.
The less fortunate arn't there nor are they at the border.
Don't do this "Poor Mexican" sht with me. My eyes are wide open.

Economics 101

Dave - 7-16-2009 at 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
If your making 1000 pesos a week or its equivalent, 80 dollars. Your losing almost a months worth of work.

If I made 1000 pesos weekly I couldn't afford to vacation in Primo Tapia.

Thank You Dennis

CaboRon - 7-16-2009 at 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Thank You Dennis ...

[Edited on 7-17-2009 by CaboRon]

DENNIS - 7-16-2009 at 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Does Mexico refund applications?

Yes or no.......

NO!

Oh well, I'll have to attend to this under the screech of the La Paz Fish Wife, Carol.
Tell me, babycakes, since you elected to join our conversation with a flaming response to my civil question....why is it abusive for the US to keep application fees for Mexicans when Mexico does the same to US applicants and it's deemed OK?

Let me get behind my firewall before you give me your heartfelt reply.

DianaT - 7-16-2009 at 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Does Mexico refund applications?

Yes or no.......

NO!

You are having a civil conversation :?:

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

OK.... I'm drowning in tears.
Let me ask again....Does Mexico refund applications?

Yes or no.......

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

I think that's all pure, self-serving bullcrap. You're taking the lower end of the Mexico economic scale and applying it to all Mexicans crossing the border. That isn't the case and you gawwdam well know it.
The middle class in Mexico has come alive in huge numbers and have money to function much like her counterparts in the US. I live amongst you folks and I see little difference in economic levels between myself and the thousands of others who shop at WalMart, Costco and Home Depot. Credit cards everywhere.
The less fortunate arn't there nor are they at the border.
Don't do this "Poor Mexican" sht with me. My eyes are wide open.

Those are "civil" responses :?:

Obtaining a travel visa for Mexico is easy, quick and cheap for US citizens and Canadians.

For Mexicans, besides the high cost of obtaining a US visa, and now it appears a Canadian visa there is the wait, the uncertainty, and often travel expenses that may or may not result in a visa.

[Edited on 7-17-2009 by jdtrotter]

JESSE - 7-16-2009 at 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

LOL! when it suits you, all of us Mexicans are bunched togheter. But when it doesn´t suit you, we are separated and categorized diferently. Wich one is it going to be? one day we are all the same people, next day, we are all different and equal to our US counterparts.

Most of my friends are not middle class Mexicans with similar economic levels to americans, and i know how hard it is for them to lose 300 dollars on an application. Don´t come now and pretend all Mexican Visa applicants can dispose of money like that.

My eyes are also wide open.

JESSE - 7-16-2009 at 06:13 PM

In Tijuana, and most of northern Mexico, a lot of middle and lower middle classes have Visas. This includes managers, secretaries, mechanics, etc who don´t make more than 1,500 pesos a week. I know, my family was one of them and we didn´t have the same economic level as our american "counterparts". I have seen how people are denied visas just because the customs agent was in a bad mood. And lets not even get into how long and how hard it is to get one. Here in Mexico, everybody gets Visas, fast, simple, cheap.

Comparing both processes are like apples and oranges.

arrowhead - 7-16-2009 at 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter
For Mexicans, besides the high cost of obtaining a US visa, and now it appears a Canadian visa there is the wait, the uncertainty, and often travel expenses that may or may not result in a visa.

Let me do some explaining, as the ignorance level is fairly high here. First of all, the visa application fee the US charges is $131. The US charges the exact same amount for all visa application fees from anywhere in the world, not just Mexico. The purpose of the fee is to offset the cost of processing the application. It is not a profit center for the US. $131 is not a lot of money. If it seems like too much to a Mexican, he probably cannot afford to vacation in the US anyway.

After a visa application is approved, then the tourist has to pay the actual visa fee. The visa fee is based upon reciprocity --e.g. the US looks at what the tourist's country charges US citizens for a visa. It just so happens that the visa fee for a Mexican to visit the US is "FREE", no charge, gratis.

There is something more. About 30 countries in the world are on a visa waiver program with the US. Tourists from those countries do not need a visa -- nor do they pay any fee. In order to get on the visa waiver program, a country must meet various security and other requirements, such as enhanced law enforcement and security-related data sharing with the United States and timely reporting of both blank and issued lost and stolen passports. The tourists from that country also have to have a good record of not overstaying their visit.

Mexico will never get on the visa waiver program, which would make trips to the US from any Mexican with a passport entirely free. Too many Mexicans have "screwed the pooch" with the US for that to happen.

[Edited on 7-17-2009 by arrowhead]

arrowhead - 7-16-2009 at 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by redmesa
Somehow the point is being lost here. There is no longer a way for a Mexican to visit Canada or the U.S.A. without a complex VISA process which is expensive, time consuming and almost prohibitive for most Mexicans.

It's been that way for Mexicans wanting to visit the US for decades. What is new is the Canadian requirements placed on Mexicans. My understanding that this was a direct response by the Canadian government to so many Mexicans trying to stay in Canada. If you want to read between the lines, it is a direct response to the political and economic problems in Mexico. Canada is trying to lock the barn door before the horse is stolen.

[Edited on 7-17-2009 by arrowhead]

CaboRon - 7-16-2009 at 06:40 PM

Quote:

And, Your Point Would Be ?

JESSE - 7-16-2009 at 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

Quote:

Its not $131.

The US consulate takes the dollar at 17 pesos. If your using pesos, add 40 dollars more.

Add about 30 dollars for your 1-900 call to set up your appointment. (50 pesos per minute)

Add 40 dollars to get your PIN number (again, 50 pesos per minute)

Add 40 dollars for shipping.

Consider losing two full days getting it. This doesnt take into account, traveling to Juarez, Tijuana or Mexico City, Hotel, Food, etc.

I don't think so

Dave - 7-16-2009 at 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by redmesa
Somehow the point is being lost here. There is no longer a way for a Mexican to visit Canada or the U.S.A. without a complex VISA process which is expensive, time consuming and almost prohibitive for most Mexicans. US citizens and Canadians are still able to travel to Mexico basically with ease.

It is what it is. I sympathize with those who can't afford it. I'd like to vacation in the South of France but I can't afford that neither.

You seem to promote an implied right to international travel. There ain't one. I know it's not fair...

Life's not fair.

DianaT - 7-16-2009 at 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

Quote:

Let me do some explaining, as the ignorance level is fairly high here.

While I will certainly admit to ignorance about many subjects, what is ignorant about that quote? OK, I forgot an important comma---

But, for many families who travel to the US to shop and or visit family, it IS expensive, there is a wait, it is always uncertain, and for many, there are travel expenses and at times, for naught.

Even to renew a visa for the US, there is always the stress of will it or will it not be renewed.

Now, unfortunately, it sounds like Canada is following the US and I fully understand the regret expressed here by some Canadians.

longlegsinlapaz - 7-16-2009 at 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

No, Jesse's correct in his argument; it's not "pure self-serving bullcrap", as you so eloquently put it! The poor is by far the largest economic level in Baja. I paid the application fees for friends I took up to Long Beach several years ago for a Thanksgiving visit with his sister & brother-in-law who'd lived in the USA for 15-20 years. My friends applied in Cabo & on the date assigned, we appeared at the US Consulate in TJ. They had all the required paperwork with them, they were asked for a bank statement....they don't have a bank account because their total combined earnings was in the $5,000 peso mo. range & there was nothing left to bank at the end of the month. They definitely do not qualify as middle-class financially. My friends wouldn't qualify for a credit card!

Their visas were denied. They didn't have a bank account & they had family who legally lived in the USA. To the US Consulate that meant they were making a one-way trip with no intentions of returning & that's what they were told in no uncertain terms!

I hadn't just driven two days to turn around & drive back straight to La Paz & TJ is not my idea of a fun city to spend time in. I was furious at the rude & totally demeaning treatment they'd received from representatives of MY government! I took their denied paperwork inside (an area they were denied admittance!) & talked with Consulate personnel who stood by the decision of the original screener outside. I moved up the chain of command & eventually spoke with someone who believed me when I said I'd accept total responsibility & swore that they'd be returning to BCS with me in two weeks. They initially offered to grant the couple visas for one week. I said that wasn't fair, they'd had to pay an annual visa fee & could only use it for one week?! It took me several hours, but by the time I left, I had visas in hand authorizing them to enter the US through December. We did return as promised & we even went back up to spend Christmas with their family. Everyone that went North returned South!

So not everyone that applies for a visa is well-to-do, nor going to spendy tourist theme parks, or staying in expensive hotels....or even Motel-6! Some are simply very-low income folks who have family there legally & want to see their family, see their homes, experience for a short time what a little piece of the US is like, see a "real" shopping mall that goes on for block after block & has thousands of stores in it. To visit home garden stores & discover different plants than they've ever seen. To experience food they'd never get a chance to eat at home. To visit fabric stores & see all the different fabrics that aren't available in their area. They were in awe of virtually everything! The sheer immensity of everything, the myriad of options available in grocery & department stores, the traffic, the heights of buildings!

Being there to see the looks on their faces, to share their amazement & their joy was something I wouldn't have missed for the world!

The processes & inequities between obtaining visas in the two countries are worlds apart. When I applied for my FM3 at the Mexican Consulate in Portland, OR, I was treated courteously & respectfully, I left feeling like they truly wanted me to come & enjoy their country! That feeling was NOT evident at the US Consulate in TJ.

arrowhead - 7-16-2009 at 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Its not $131.

The US consulate takes the dollar at 17 pesos. If your using pesos, add 40 dollars more.

Add about 30 dollars for your 1-900 call to set up your appointment. (50 pesos per minute)

Add 40 dollars to get your PIN number (again, 50 pesos per minute)

Add 40 dollars for shipping.

Consider losing two full days getting it. This doesnt take into account, traveling to Juarez, Tijuana or Mexico City, Hotel, Food, etc.

Oh come on Jesse. That is totally bogus argument. If you lived in a city that had a US Consulate, the cost would be $131, because you would stop at the money exchange on the way to your appointment and exchange pesos at the market rate. All of the rest of your "expenses" would not apply. If I lived in Montana and needed to go get a Mexican visa, I would have to travel through two states to a consulate and stay overnight at my expense, too. You cannot use where you choose to live as a reason to complain about your costs.

Travel is expensive, everywhere you go. What about those sneaky airport exit fees in Mexico? What about the 15% VAT in Mexico on the mainland? Travel is not cheap. If you don't have $131, you can't go very far anyway. By the way, you can make an appointment at the TJ consulate for free on the internet and even fill in the visa application on the internet.

Here's what one of your paisano's said about the whole thing in Frontera. This is one Mexican who has his facts:

Quote:

jesuspmoreno

Una cosa es soberania y otra diferente es abuso.

Yo viaje y tengo algunos familiares legales en Canada y me han comentado como la gente tanto legal como ilegal ah abusado de los beneficios y apoyos Canadienses, sobre todo en materia de seguridad social.

Esta medida de Canada ya se habia tardado y asi pasara conforme se vaya abusando de otros paises.

El tema es complejo, es culpa tanto de nosotros como mexicanos, como del gobierno.

Del gobierno por tener estructuras que son deficientes y que motivan a la migracion y nosotros como mexicanos porque siempre estamos buscando el lado facil de las cosas, el lado chueco para hacerlo mejor, mas rapido o mas economico.

Es como el ejemplo tipico de la gente que va a San Diego a tener sus hijos alla de manera gratis, con tal de hacerlos ciudadanos americanos... ahhh pero no desean invertir sino que ademas!!! les salga gratis.

Es por ello que cada pais y mas ante un escenario de crisis mundial, es totalmente razonable de proteger a sus propios ciudadanos y cuidar sus intereses.

Concluyo comentando que es una verguenza la reaccion del gobierno Mexicano, de "vengarse" pidiendo a los funcionarios canadienses Visa, y espero... espero que no lo hagan a los turistas canadienses... eso seria una tonteria.

http://www.frontera.info/EdicionEnLinea/Notas/Nacional/16072...

The bottom line is like I said before, too many Mexicans have abused the system. Now they all have to pay.

arrowhead - 7-16-2009 at 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
The processes & inequities between obtaining visas in the two countries are worlds apart. When I applied for my FM3 at the Mexican Consulate in Portland, OR, I was treated courteously & respectfully, I left feeling like they truly wanted me to come & enjoy their country! That feeling was NOT evident at the US Consulate in TJ.

I guarantee you that when you applied for your FM3 in Portland if you told the consular officer you had no bank accounts, your FM3 would have been summarily denied. The US consulates' requirements are no different than Mexico when it comes to that.

longlegsinlapaz - 7-16-2009 at 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

Its not $131.

The US consulate takes the dollar at 17 pesos. If your using pesos, add 40 dollars more.

Add about 30 dollars for your 1-900 call to set up your appointment. (50 pesos per minute)

Add 40 dollars to get your PIN number (again, 50 pesos per minute)

Add 40 dollars for shipping.

Consider losing two full days getting it. This doesnt take into account, traveling to Juarez, Tijuana or Mexico City, Hotel, Food, etc.

And those who don't hold a current Mexican passport have to get one before they can apply for a visa. Not absolutely positive, but it seems like that was in the $2,000 peso range per, several years ago.

DENNIS - 7-16-2009 at 07:50 PM

MEXICO SLAPS VISA REQUIRMENTS ON CANADA DIPLOMATS

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2009/07/16/cannon-me...

longlegsinlapaz - 7-16-2009 at 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

Quote:

True....but then I was applying for a resident visa, not a short-term tourist visa to visit family.

DENNIS - 7-16-2009 at 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz

And those who don't hold a current Mexican passport have to get one before they can apply for a visa. Not absolutely positive, but it seems like that was in the $2,000 peso range per, several years ago.

Who do they have to blame for that?

Seems like it all comes down to one basic fact....either you can afford to travel or you can't.

DianaT - 7-16-2009 at 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

I guarantee you that when you applied for your FM3 in Portland if you told the consular officer you had no bank accounts, your FM3 would have been summarily denied. The US consulates' requirements are no different than Mexico when it comes to that.

Yes, when we applied for our FM3s, we had to show bank statements----but in the past, we were NEVER asked for any such thing when just travelling in Mexico---even when we entered from the southern most border.

FMTs are a VERY simple procedure---except the extra dog papers they wanted at the southern border.

[Edited on 7-17-2009 by jdtrotter]

More than that

Dave - 7-16-2009 at 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Seems like it all comes down to one basic fact....either you can afford to travel or you can't.

It also has a wee bit to do with nationality.

Then again, I wouldn't want to travel anywhere I didn't feel welcome.

Maybe all Mexicans should boycott travel to the U.S. and Canada.

norte - 7-16-2009 at 08:14 PM

Oh good. then I can park a lot closer at Wallymart

Great!

Dave - 7-16-2009 at 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by morgaine7

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
You seem to promote an implied right to international travel. There ain't one. I know it's not fair...

Right? International travel should be an obligation.

Kate

Send me a check.

Warning: I travel first class.

fishbuck - 7-16-2009 at 08:37 PM

My guess is that if it was too easy for Mexican people to enter either the US or Canada they simply would not leave.
I really don't think you will have that problem with Canadians or US citizens entering Mexico. They will want to return home and will.

DENNIS - 7-16-2009 at 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Then again, I wouldn't want to travel anywhere I didn't feel welcome.

That would be about half the cities in the US.

Not even close

Dave - 7-16-2009 at 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Then again, I wouldn't want to travel anywhere I didn't feel welcome.

That would be about half the cities in the US.

Been to way less than half.

fishbuck - 7-16-2009 at 09:40 PM

Yes Redmesa, I'm sure what you say is true. In fact I intend to be one of them someday.
But I have the FM3 and it wasn't easy to get. It took leg work and money. But I will be legal.
I honestly don't think Canada will miss the tourists from Mexico who are dissuaded from visiting now. The ones that do visit will be more affluent.
And I'm sure there are some people in Mexico who don't have the correct papers too. They probably still spend lots of money in Mexico that comes from the US or Canada. That's usually not the case with Mexicans that are in those countries illegally. They have their hand out for all the public services. We can't afford them anymore. Look at what is happening in California right now. We're broke.
But I think you may be aware that there is somewhere between 12-20 million illegal Mexican immigrants in the US. We really can't tolerate anymore. The US is on the verge of imploding under it's own weight. The worlds lifeboat is full and it's about to sink. Then what?
I believe Canada has been very liberal about immigration in the past. But maybe they have enough people there now and are starting to feel the same sort of pressure we are here in the US.
Legitimate tourists are always welcome in any country.

JESSE - 7-16-2009 at 11:45 PM

Well, the reality of all this is, that its going to get a lot harder to get Mexican papers in the future. And Mexican tourist are going to grow to become a very important and desirable segment. (Here in La Paz they are about 60% of our business and a reason why La Paz has done a lot better than Cabo or Loreto). If Canada wants to require visas so be it, but at least do it like the Americans do, they let you know a year in advance that they will be requiring certain documentation. But a sudden change creates a lot of problems. This winter i was planning to go to Vancouver on vacation, instead, i will be spending my money on a nice California winter resort.

fishbuck - 7-17-2009 at 12:47 AM

Ya, know Jesse that is why I like La Paz and the surrounding areas so much. It's authentic. Sure there are some US and other tourists but the are alot of Mexican tourists. I guess from the mainland. It's Mexico being Mexican.
If you wanted Vancover you could still go to Seattle. A nice place in the summertime. There is a bunch of islands and mountains.
Go to the airplane museum. I think it's free after 5 on Thursday or something like that.
But if you come to SoCal you won't be disappointed.
There is a good hotel right across the street from me. A Ramada and about 1 mile to Newport Beach. Like $75-100. It's fun here!
But ya, I would love to go to Canada and catch some nice big salmon!

fishbuck - 7-17-2009 at 12:54 AM

I misread. Okay wintertime Lake Tahoe. I go to Kirkwood but Heavenly is nice and right in town.
Kirkwood get's more snow that anyplace else in the US including Colorado.

shari - 7-17-2009 at 07:08 AM

this "better class of tourists" thing really irks me...a good example is Juan's uncle Javier who has been entertaining many gringos here with his music and good cheer and little english. He retired this year and so has some disposable income he was planning to visit my family in Canada...who invited him.
They are still the same class of people even though they have a bit of money now...perhaps they wont spend as much as say a japanese tourist...so what....my family will drop alot of cash entertaining them and showing them the sights and attractions.

What the hay?? only wealthy tourists should be welcome....that sucks...think back people....waaaaay back to when you were a youngster who wanted to surf or camp in baja. I really disdain "high end" only type of mentality...what about the normal dudes and dudettes who may not be slaves to the almighty dollar but certainly have the right to travel and see the world.
I once had this what I thought was a great idea....resorts, hotels, restaurants etc....should HAVE to have an area, rooms etc for the cash strapped folks...no elitism...just different services so even the not so rich could enjoy beautiful places...what a dream eh! I have tried to apply this to our scene here...to have something for everyone...alternative ideas for those who dont have alot of money but make up for it in enthusiasm and love of travel.

I am just sick about this change in availability for my family and friends here to see Canada...it is a huge topic of discussion here and very sad as we had been making plans for some of the elders and teens to visit this magnificent country.

DENNIS - 7-17-2009 at 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
I am just sick about this change in availability for my family and friends here to see Canada...it is a huge topic of discussion here and very sad as we had been making plans for some of the elders and teens to visit this magnificent country.

There's been a lot of numbers thrown around here as to the new cost to travel into Canada. Realistically, without putting a dollar price on stress, how much is it?

DENNIS - 7-17-2009 at 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
I once had this what I thought was a great idea....resorts, hotels, restaurants etc....should HAVE to have an area, rooms etc for the cash strapped folks...no elitism...just different services so even the not so rich could enjoy beautiful places...what a dream eh!

That might be an unlikely mix of Socialism and Capitalism. A dream for some...a nightmare for others.
Your heart's in the right place tho, Shari.

jorgie - 7-17-2009 at 11:05 AM

the change in visa requirements to Mexico is bad , it reflects the times we live in . It will be much harder on the Mexican people than Canadians .
The Czech visa requirement is strange . Canadians wander visaless around the EU . As members of the EU the Czech Republic will be asking that Parliment for Canadians to hold EU visas .
Mexican working folk in Canada have always required a ' work visa ' strange that Canadian employees have been allowed in without a visa government or not .
There must be more to this than sudden action ...........

DENNIS - 7-17-2009 at 11:30 AM

More info on the subject. We can't have too much, can we.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/07/14/czech-visas-mexico....

aldosalato - 7-17-2009 at 11:48 AM

In 15 years time Europe, Japan, US and Canada will have to pay people to move into their countries............
It is just a question of demographics. An ageing population will need more and more influx of future immigrants for all kind of jobs.
Do you know who created a 2 trillion USD + debt during last year that will never be repaid?

DENNIS - 7-17-2009 at 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aldosalato
In 15 years time Europe, Japan, US and Canada will have to pay people to move into their countries............
It is just a question of demographics. An ageing population will need more and more influx of future immigrants for all kind of jobs.

Faulty projection unless everything is government controlled. With rampant government spending requiring more taxation, who is going to have anything left to buy these services.
By the way...the birth rate is robust unlike education in California. In your fifteen years, even Mexico will have difficulty competeing in the low-end labor market with the blockheads produced by Arnold and his cabal in California.

DENNIS - 7-17-2009 at 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by redmesa
So can't we find another way?

Are you lobbying for "No Visa" or a more accessible, easier to obtain visa?

arrowhead - 7-17-2009 at 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by redmesa
John's letter to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration in Canada, Jason Kenney and others

I don't think you will have much luck. I just read that Canada spends on average $29,000 per person for each amnesty request. It has to provide room and board and a lawyer until the case is resolved. Which takes some time. If approximately 10,000 Mexicans per year are applying for amnesty in Canada, that is $290 million of Canadian taxpayer money that is being wasted.

One might argue that Mexican tourists spend more money than that in Canada, but that is false economics. Spending is not tax revenues. In order to generate $290 million of tax revenues in Canada, Mexicans would have to be spending over $3 BILLION tourist dollars to generate a $290 million tax. It's gets easier to understand why Canada has made the changes.

fishbuck - 7-17-2009 at 12:58 PM

Maybe if Mexico doesn't charge Canadians for the Biosphere fine that Canada won't charge Mexicans a visa fee?
Why is it okay for Mexico to charge people money but if another country charges Mexicans money it is somehow unfair and Mexicans are the "victim" again?
I'll say what someone on here told me about the Biosphere fee.
If you don't like it then don't go there.

JESSE - 7-17-2009 at 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

Quote:

Originally posted by redmesa
John's letter to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration in Canada, Jason Kenney and others

I think there is definately a big problem with Canadas refugee laws (like we didnt know this:rolleyes

. Mexicans do not need to seek asylum in Canada, period. The nation regardless of its problems, is full of possibilities and opportunities. Why can´t Canada simply create a no nonsense department for screening potential refugees from designated troubled countries? if a Mexican, or an American or an European wants asylum, they would need to show plenty of proof in order to even get a second consideration?

This current policy of just show up and claim your a victim of whatever, and thats it, you get into he process, its simply ridiculous.

DENNIS - 7-17-2009 at 01:30 PM

Does the US offer Amnesty to Mexicans? Seems like it would be a huge affront to the Democratic efforts of the Calderón administration.
Seems Canada does offer amnesty to Mexicans, or did. And all this time I thought the attraction was socialized medicine and elk hunting.

DENNIS - 7-17-2009 at 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

This current policy of just show up and claim your a victim of whatever, and thats it, you get into he process, its simply ridiculous.

Sure it is. Mexico knows that. Look at your southern border.

Amnesty?

Dave - 7-17-2009 at 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Does the US offer Amnesty to Mexicans? ...

Seems Canada does offer amnesty to Mexicans, or did.

From what?

JESSE - 7-17-2009 at 02:09 PM

There is one subject we havent mentioned here, but in my opinion, is the reason behind this problem.

Canadian immigration attorneys who have abused the laws for profit.

I lived in Canada many years ago, i know the immigration system fairly well, and i can tell you the overwhelming mayority Mexicans get a Canadian immigration attorney to deal with the process. Recently, in the past 4 or 5 years, there has been an explosion of immigration law firms advertising for immigration to Canada. When i was up there, there was only 2 or 3. Today, Google "immigration canada" and you will see what i mean.

They advertise in most major Mexican newspapers asking people if they would like to move to Canada.

DENNIS - 7-17-2009 at 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Does the US offer Amnesty to Mexicans? ...

Seems Canada does offer amnesty to Mexicans, or did.

From what?

Yeah......That's the point. Or, should be. They don't necessarily grant amnesty but, once the application is accepted, the long clock starts to tic. By the time their number comes up, they're drinking Molsons and getting free root canals.
Canada created her own problems and should be taken to task for it and the last to question the idea of amnesty for protection from within Mexico would be Mexico herself. Endure any indignation but, don't stop these people from leaving.

DENNIS - 7-17-2009 at 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
There is one subject we havent mentioned here, but in my opinion, is the reason behind this problem.

Canadian immigration attorneys who have abused the laws for profit.

I'm not sure they have abused the laws. They're working within a Socialist system and the only thing that comes to my mind which would make matters worse would be meddleing from the ACLU.

When Lopez Obrador reappears, someone should remember all this complete nonsense.

arrowhead - 7-17-2009 at 03:36 PM

How about this for taking asylum to the extremes of absurdity? A Mexican woman seeking asylum in the US because her husband beats her.

http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_12845750

Her asylum was turned down by a federal judge and now the Department of Homeland Security -- using the taxpayers' money -- is arguing on her behalf. Do you think that Mexico could take about $100 pesos of the Merida billions the US is giving it and put the guy in jail?

norte - 7-17-2009 at 04:10 PM

Dennis, why is it you can't come back to the US and defend your views? We would welcome you home, but living somewhere else?????

DENNIS - 7-17-2009 at 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
Her asylum was turned down by a federal judge and now the Department of Homeland Security -- using the taxpayers' money -- is arguing on her behalf. Do you think that Mexico could take about $100 pesos of the Merida billions the US is giving it and put the guy in jail?

Human interest sht like this makes me sick. The Canadian government has produced an environment that teaches each individual to take-take-take through tax-tax-tax. They no longer have to be concerned because the government will provide, only if they earn.

What is the difference between this plan and the Red Threat Communist ideal that we were taught was God-Hateful and sinful in the past...

Jeezo....I sound like Skeet.

Kneejerk Response

CaboRon - 7-18-2009 at 05:04 AM

Canadian diplomats slapped with visas
The News

WASHINGTON - Mexico's Foreign Relations secretary Patricia Espinosa announced that Canadian officials and diplomats will be required to obtain visas in advance in response to a new visa requirement for Mexicans visiting Canada..

"Today, we have decided to suspend the agreement that allowed a visa exemption for official and diplomatic passport holders," Espinosa said Thursday in Washington.

Espinosa's announcement came during a meeting with her Canadian counterpart Lawrence Cannon and US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

The meeting, called to prepare for a trilateral summit in Guadalajara, Mexico next month, was the first time that Espinosa and Cannon have met since the diplomatic spat over visa requirements arose earlier this week.

Espinosa said Mexico would not apply the new visa requirement to Canadians visiting Mexico as tourists, to ensure Mexico's key tourism industry was not hit by the new rules.

Canada suddenly announced Monday that visitors from Mexico and the Czech Republic would be required to obtain visas before entering the country, in order to curb fraudulent asylum applicants from the two countries.

The decision has so offended Mexico that Espinosa held a bilateral meeting with her Canadian counterpart to discuss the issue on the sidelines of Thursday's trilateral discussions, she said.

"We have made it absolutely clear that we are not in agreement" with the Canadian decision, Espinosa said.

"We're not looking for problems with our allies," said Cannon, who added that the number of false asylum applications has risen.

The Canadian diplomat noted that the decision to require visas had been taken by Immigration.

Dave - 7-18-2009 at 02:26 PM

I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay,

I sleep all night and I work all day.

(He's a lumberjack and he's okay,

he sleeps all night and he works all day)

I cut down trees, I eat my lunch, I go to the lavatory,

On Wednesdays I go shopping, and have buttered scones for tea.

(He cuts down trees, he eats his lunch, he goes to the lavatory,

On Wednesdays he goes shopping, and has buttered scones for tea)

I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay,

I sleep all night and I work all day.

I cut down trees, I skip and jump, I like to press wild flowers,

I put on women's clothing and hang around in bars.

(He cuts down trees, he skips and jumps, he likes to press wild flowers

He puts on women's clothing and hangs around in bars??)

I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay,

I sleep all night and I work all day.

I cut down trees, I wear high heels, suspenders and a bra.

I wish I'd been a girly, just like my dear Papa.

(He cuts down trees, he wears high heels, suspenders? and a bra???)

He's a lumberjack and he's okay,

he sleeps all night and he works all day.

He's a lumberjack and he's okay

he sleeps all night and he works all day

DENNIS - 7-18-2009 at 02:26 PM

I guess we ran out of visa things to talk about. Oh well, threads do morph. This one is no exception.

DENNIS - 7-18-2009 at 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
(He cuts down trees, he skips and jumps, he likes to press wild flowers
He puts on women's clothing and hangs around in bars)

And, tell us about that BLUE OX. What's up with that?

Ox?

Dave - 7-18-2009 at 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

And, tell us about that BLUE OX. What's up with that?

I think you're missing a letter. :rolleyes:

Long gone, so I'm told. Either way they didn't serve Ox or Fox.

DENNIS - 7-18-2009 at 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
I think you're missing a letter. :rolleyes:

Long gone, so I'm told. Either way they didn't serve Ox or Fox.

Ah yes....I remember all too well. And, since we're running amok with a hijacking, where has Ferna FDT been lately? Havn't seen him posting. Busy, I suppose.