BajaNomad - The perfect NOT

The perfect NOT

bajajudy - 7-19-2009 at 11:10 PM

some of you will appreciate this I believe
EDITED FOR OBVIOUS REASONS

[Edited on 7-20-2009 by bajajudy]

knot.jpg - 42kB

BajaNuts - 7-19-2009 at 11:40 PM

a work of art!

bill erhardt - 7-20-2009 at 03:23 AM

Neat as a pin.

gnukid - 7-20-2009 at 05:42 AM

While this cleat hitch looks good, it is not tied correctly and can come loose. The line should exit the opposite direction, like this:

A reference

http://www.netknots.com/html/cleat_hitch.html

[Edited on 7-20-2009 by gnukid]

bajajudy - 7-20-2009 at 06:40 AM

Gnu
Mine is the same as yours. The entrance end goes straight out to the boat. Imagine the tension being to the right of the cleat.

shari - 7-20-2009 at 07:22 AM

Skookum chuck all right...dontcha just love messin around on boats! I learned to tie a boat as a little girl and always enjoyed the coiling.

DianaT - 7-20-2009 at 08:11 AM

I know absolutely nada about knots---

but I sure do like that photo---nice one!

Diane

gnukid - 7-20-2009 at 08:28 AM

Yeah it should be fine, but it won't pass inspection. The cleat hitch is notorious for coming loose due to slack from changing tides causing the loops to fall off. So, it should conform to the rule with ends falling exactly in the opposite direction under tension, or risk loosening.

bajajudy - 7-20-2009 at 08:32 AM

Gnu
The problem is that the cleats are exactly as far apart as the boat is long. I have tried starting from the right and the left and they both look and act the same. With no cleat in the middle for a spring line, that is the best we can do.

MikeLikeBaja - 7-20-2009 at 09:14 AM

This pic that GNUKID has is the same knot I use on my tennis shoes

BMG - 7-20-2009 at 09:31 AM

The 'big boys' don't use a locking hitch.

I was taught to start at the horn that was more than a 90 degree angle. I was also taught to put a full wrap around the cleat (instead of a 3/4 wrap) and always follow up with another full wrap at the end.

Here is another interesting website. Diane - after perusing the site you'll be the local knot expert.

Skipjack Joe - 7-20-2009 at 09:51 AM

Don't you love bajanomads?

We can't even agree on a knot.

mtgoat666 - 7-20-2009 at 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajajudy
Gnu
The problem is that the cleats are exactly as far apart as the boat is long. I have tried starting from the right and the left and they both look and act the same. With no cleat in the middle for a spring line, that is the best we can do.

newkiddie is pretty much right about angle of line to cleat, but he is using a crappy rope type. bajajudy's braided/twisted line is probably better tie line than newkid's sheathed type line.

DianaT - 7-20-2009 at 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BMG
Diane - after perusing the site you'll be the local knot expert.

That is a fun site to watch. Now just bring a boat to BA and I will secure it for you. :lol:

Since both my sons are rock climbers, it is a good thing they did not inherit my knot tying skills.

Judy, one thing I really like about that photo is how the knot, albeit it is a disputed knot :lol:

, leads down to that perfect coil. I find it really interesting to look at.

Diane

BMG - 7-20-2009 at 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

but he is using a crappy rope type.

Not true.

mtgoat666 - 7-20-2009 at 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BMG

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

but he is using a crappy rope type.

Not true.

who is the truth? me, if it's my opinion :lol:

i don't like tieing boats or much else with sheathed lines, as you can't see if internal component is damaged. ok for some uses, but,,.... hey, use what 'ya want

mulegejim - 7-20-2009 at 11:52 AM

What happened to the method of passing a bight through the opening in the bottom of the cleat and then out around the horns of the cleat. To make things more secure you can then put a half hitch or so around the horns.

oxxo - 7-20-2009 at 12:48 PM

1. Sheathed line is more subject to abrasion than twisted line.

2. Sheathed line has a lower breaking strength than twisted line of the same diameter.

3. Colored line has a lower breaking strength than un-dyed line of the same diameter.

Therefore, presuming that Judy's and Gnukids lines are the same diameter, Judy is using the superior line to secure her boat. But I do agree with Gnukid that Judy's knot is entering the cleat on the wrong horn.

I use only un-dyed twisted line to tie up my boat.....and let my wife tie the lines to the cleats and do the Flemish Flakes.

Sharksbaja - 7-20-2009 at 01:07 PM

"Judy's knot is entering the cleat on the wrong horn."

I agree, an advantage of having it enter on the downside cleat gives the rope handler the ability to cinch the line/apply pressure easier.

BMG - 7-20-2009 at 01:35 PM

Judy - you are really rocking the boat here with such an inflammatory photo. Please stick to flowers and bugs.

As for dock lines, http://www.neropes.com/AnchorDock.aspx - couldn't find anything regarding less strength on colored lines versus un-dyed, but their braided is higher strength than their 3 strand in the same diameter.

[Edited on 7-20-2009 by BMG]

Cypress - 7-20-2009 at 02:09 PM

bajajudy, Thanks for the neat photo. :bounce:

You can't even imagine some of my knots, but they won't slip or come untied. :yes:

Crusoe - 7-20-2009 at 04:31 PM

There are many different manafactures of nautical line. And.... as many different types of synthetics they are spun from..... to old tme manilla look alikes... to authentic versions thereof. The common 3 strand, that Judy' photo shows would probably be stronger when the product was new. However, most of the off the shelf, 3 strand from a chandelrey nowdays, is a certain cheaper copy of older designs and is a cotton and polypropelene spun mix. As this material ages from sun and salt water quite fast and it becomes very stiff. A cleat wrap with a stiff older line as Judy's depicts, will slip fast under the right loads. I have wittnesed it many times. As where a spun more modern mesh lines stay softer alot longer. Years longer and holds better infact.++C+

oxxo - 7-20-2009 at 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BMG
couldn't find anything regarding less strength on colored lines versus un-dyed, but their braided is higher strength than their 3 strand in the same diameter.

Check out the West Marine catalog and the chart furnished by their rope and rode supplier.

fishbuck - 7-20-2009 at 04:40 PM

Another example:

Curt63 - 7-20-2009 at 05:37 PM

Knotty Knotty!

Von - 7-20-2009 at 05:38 PM

Reminds me when i was in the Navy and had to learn about 20 different

knots. What a pain in the rear never used all of them only one or two.....

Knotheads Unite!

toneart - 7-20-2009 at 07:25 PM

Er.....is that untie? :lol:

I like your photo with the coil, Judy. :yes:

fishbuck - 7-20-2009 at 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
Er.....is that untie? :lol:

I like your photo with the coil, Judy. :yes:

Flemish coil don't ya know! :yes:

shari - 7-20-2009 at 08:21 PM

OK all you knot heads...I have a challenge...i have won money and lots of drinks from drunken sailors in many a port bar with this one...BUT...it's one of those "have to do it in person"...it cant be typed...it is about a certain type of Bollen or is it Bolen/bolin/bowlin?? knot....I bet I know a bolen you dont...l bet you dont know how to tie a dragon bolin....I'll show it to you when you come and visit.

gnukid - 7-20-2009 at 08:45 PM

hmmm dragon' bowline? I bet you were a girlscout?

gnukid - 7-20-2009 at 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck
Another example:

I am going to fail this knot as well, the lead must be much longer to ensure it doesn't loosen and the end come through. Argh.

Looks like its a knot tying party at the next Nomad get together. We never know when we'll need a breaches buoy rescue with a double bowline bosn'n chair to the rescue.

fishbuck - 7-20-2009 at 09:13 PM

I think it's left short so you can see which end is the working end and which is the standing end.
But still it shouldn't work loose if tied right.
I did sail with the LA Maritime Institute on the Swift of Ipswitch. They don't use the cleat not because they believe it will slip under presure. And that you can loose a finger trying to untie it. That's when it's tied on a belaying pin to tie off the halyard on a mainsail for example.
Probably not a factor in Baja. :cool:

gnukid - 7-20-2009 at 09:26 PM

Aha! The rule is more than 6 inches tail to maintain tension.

After seeing the cleat hitch mysteriously come loose too many times when not under tension, I prefer alternatives like you too.

DavidT - 7-20-2009 at 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
.l bet you dont know how to tie a dragon bolin....I'll show it to you when you come and visit.

Obscure reference to Young Frankenstein, "Walk this way". :light:

jimgrms - 7-22-2009 at 01:48 PM

Judy all you needed was another 1/2 wrap and yourknot would be perfect , and the clete will pull out of the pier or the line will break before the knot slips
James F Grooms
CPO USN RET

Cypress - 7-22-2009 at 02:02 PM

Anybody ever seen a "Tug boat bolin". :biggrin:

squid - 7-22-2009 at 02:17 PM

well, well, well, Gringos are arguing over a knot and do not understand the issue at all. (not talking about writing the word correctly in the first place)
I clearly go with fishbucks arguments!
as far as i can see, all examples in the pics are starting to tie the end which leads to the boat around the cleat. That is wrong as hell.
In Baja (and the rest of the world like in Asia and Europe) the guy on the rope holds the end leading to the boat, putting it one time over the cleat > putting strength on it up to the point where he thinks the boat should stay. If that is done, he ties the lead end around the cleat as many times as necessary and making one underpass at the end.
This way you can untie the boat much safer and quicker then "the American way" > Please discussion now 111 posts.
THX: :spingrin:

ncampion - 7-22-2009 at 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajajudy

newkiddie is pretty much right about angle of line to cleat, but he is using a crappy rope type. bajajudy's braided/twisted line is probably better tie line than newkid's sheathed type line.

I always find it interesting that everyone on this forum is an expert on everything.

Double braided line is roughly twice as strong as twisted three-strand rope of the same material.

http://boatsafe.com/marlinespike/safeload.htm

The line from the load should always be taken to the horn farthest from the load (as in gnukid's picture). Bajajudy should take her first wrap around the horn to the right to be perfectly correct. It should not be taken around the cleat more than one wrap as it will bind when releasing.

http://boatsafe.com/marlinespike/cleathitch.htm

There, now we all know the truth....

.

Cypress - 7-22-2009 at 02:50 PM

squid, Yea, being a gringo, I always have a sharp knife handy in case the knots need a little help coming undone. :lol:

Russ - 7-22-2009 at 03:12 PM

Two words for those knotempared. DUCT TAPE