BajaNomad - Today's Spanish Grammar Lesson, jovenes...

Today's Spanish Grammar Lesson, jovenes...

Mulegena - 8-1-2009 at 04:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by toneart
Quote:
Originally posted by Martyman
Does Quiole mean "whassup homefries?" I think I got it now.

If you are friendly and smiling and/or showing a hand sign that is a universal greeting, you are among "friends".

I have always heard Hijo-Le!, or Hijole! used more as an exclamation, meaning....Wow! That is incredulous!...used with and the head tossed back like a backward nod. They often stretch the Eeeeee out. They are almost always smiling when the say it. It is a reaction to something.

It is in wide usage and is meant in friendly terms...unless it is not. [Edited on 7-31-2009 by toneart]

Which is the more correct spelling:
Quijole Hijole or..... Hijola

and is there a distinction from:
Horale which as I understand means "Right Now!"

and the regional:
Agarra la onda? which I understand is a greeting meaning "What's Up?"

Language Linguists, please respond. Mil Thanx!

shari - 8-1-2009 at 06:49 PM

I'm not a linguist but heres what these things mean to me

for me Agarra la onda means "get with the program dude!"

for me quiole is different than hijole which means as you said
and quiole is used in a greeting like..."whats shakin" and as well when someone says something you think is really neat so it sort of means..."well what do ya think of that."

Orale means a whack of different things...many times it's an
agreement..like yeah man....cool...or can mean "thank you" too

arrowhead - 8-1-2009 at 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mulegena
and is there a distinction from:
Horale which as I understand means "Right Now!"

and the regional:
Agarra la onda? which I understand is a greeting meaning "What's Up?"

Language Linguists, please respond. Mil Thanx!

I'm not a linguist, but lived with Mexicans for years.

hijole = Wow!
quijole = What's up?
orale = Right on! - What you just said! - I'm in agreement with you.
Agarra la onda = If asked as a question, it means: Did you get it? Did you understand? Do you follow? If it's a statement it means: Get with the program. Get on the same page as everybody else. Get a clue.

shari - 8-1-2009 at 07:54 PM

eso eso eso...that's it...i couldnt remember how to spell it...so larry...quehubole isnt related to hijole then is it...gracias

toneart - 8-1-2009 at 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

Quote:

This could well be correct, just as Shari said.

I had thought quiole and hijole were the same word that morphed into a more modern usage...Whasss Up?

I had never heard a separate word...quiole.(That doesn't mean that it isn't a separate,mainstream idiom. I am just saying that I had never heard it). When I lived in San Miguel de Allende during the early 80s, our performances were frequented by Chilangos from Mexico City. They brought the idioms of the day with them. They were our fans and came to San Miguel regularly. My musicians all used their phrases.

Arrowhead and Shari. The phrase "Whasss up" came with the gangs, to the street, to Hip Hop, to basketball, made popular in a Budweiser commercial in 2000(Modern Ebonics?). Of course, "What's up" has been around for many decades, but not as Hip Hop. Do you think that quiole (or quijole) is also a recent word that was born with Whasss up? Anybody else is welcome to jump in too...if you know the answer.
Language evolves. New entries make it into dictionaries every year.

oxxo - 8-1-2009 at 08:44 PM

Thank you for the language lesson and not to hijack the thread, but what does this mean?:

Honda le pues (I'm not sure of the spelling)

I think it means something like "that's right"

?Quien sabe?

arrowhead - 8-1-2009 at 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo
Thank you for the language lesson and not to hijack the thread, but what does this mean?:

Honda le pues (I'm not sure of the spelling)

I think it means something like "that's right"

?Quien sabe?

It's ándele pues (sometimes ándale pues) . It's an expression used in Mexico to end a conversation. It's kind of like, "farewell", "goodbye", "I'll be off now" . It is also used during a conversation just to let the other person know you are listening. Kind of like "uh huh, uh huh".

Paula - 8-1-2009 at 09:12 PM

Oxxo, do you mean andale pues?

It's an ending to a conversation or phone call. Like OK then, or time to move on.

shari - 8-1-2009 at 09:18 PM

you will also here Orale pues too

toneart - 8-1-2009 at 09:22 PM

Quote:

I think it is "Andale pues" is what we are hearing. Andale means walk. Pues means then or well...kinda like "walk on then". As an idiom it means something like what you say; "That's right" or "Right on", or "You go, Man (or Girl)! .

La onda means the mode or style. I hear it used as "Que onda?" Another variation of "Whasss up" or What's happening?"(What's the mode for the moment, or today?)

I have used these idioms because I learned them phonetically. They seem to respond and acknowledge appropriately. I have never seen them written.

Russ - 8-2-2009 at 05:33 AM

Interesting, Thanks. Could one of you supply a couple of answers to the questions above? I've been answering, "Lo mismo, nada." and seem to to get a laugh or smile so it might mean something unintended. Hope it's not an insult.

shari - 8-2-2009 at 08:04 AM

Andar is one of those words that mean alot of things too...
andar en bicicleta o caballo...to ride a bike or horse
me gusta andar en carros....i like riding around in cars...so it can mean to ride too

sirena anda con los surfos...sirena is hanging out with the surfers...so can mean hanging out or being with someone

ONDA is like a wave...so when you hear Toneart es muy Buena Onda...it's like he's a cool guy...or on a good wave... a good chitt...so to me que onda means like how's your wave...vibe...mood....get it amigos??
Que mala onda....means...what a drag...that sucks...bummer...bad wave man
microonda...microwave

these are the phrases I teach in spanish immersion because this is what you hear every day on the streets...which is why immersion works better than classes at school or tapes or videos...you actually learn the jive talk spoken in the hood!!! and it's more fun....

[Edited on 8-2-2009 by shari]

DianaT - 8-2-2009 at 08:21 AM

All very interesting --- would like to see more of the common expressions, idioms, etc. talked about here---good ones to know.

Curious, one expression we have not heard in Baja is "vaya pues" which is extremely common in Central America---in Guatemala, they often shorten it to va.

It is similar to maybe orale---it is like OK. In coversations and when one is talking on the phone, it is said often----

Is it used in Baja?

Oso - 8-2-2009 at 09:26 AM

¿Q-Vo? Never heard quiole.

shari - 8-2-2009 at 09:35 AM

I think Q-bow (pronunciation) is the same...just morphed from "key-oo-bow" which looks like it comes from queubole...so they just dropped the "b" sound and we hear it like...key-ewe-lay

ONe more dicho or saying....seeing as we have a caracol thread going...CARACOLES!!! pronounced...car-a-COAL-eh's means holey moley....often used when men see a buxom woman and they are in female company so use this word.

shari - 8-2-2009 at 10:30 AM

seeing as we're on this language learning topic...in one recent immersion class, my star pupil...Kevin...and I discoverd something interesting.

Musicians who can play by ear and have a natural "ear" for music learn language MUCH easier, faster and reproduce the accent much better than non musical students.

My theory is that they HEAR the phrases like a bar of music...then like they would hear a tune and reproduce it on their chosen instrument...in language, they hear it and reproduce it with the instrument of their vocal chords...thus they repeat the phrase with the proper accent...instead of learning words by seeing them written. It's more like learning a song.

It's like kids learning to speak a language...they just repeat stuff they hear...mimic the phrases.

I have found that teachers dont necessarily make the best students as they get too hung up on how it's written, grammar etc instead of the creative native dichos or sayings...they dont "agara la onda" or catch the wave as easily as others.

My classes are pretty unique and we basically sit down and chat about our lives...what's going on around us in the village, gossip, our daily things so we use vocabulary that is used all around us on a daily basis...concentrating on what the student will be hearing all day.

DianaT - 8-2-2009 at 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by Oso
¿Q-Vo? Never heard quiole.

¡Quehúbole mi Osón!

A point of curiosity I've had for years, is how to teach discrimination of "foreign" minimal sounds to Gringos learning Spanish. This thread shows that folks here seem to be totally missing essential particles which in English perhaps would NOT be significant...

I've had the privilege of working with some young kids lately (English to native Spanish speakers) and with them, massive passive exposure appears to help a lot with that detail (videos designed for that task), but I haven't had a chance to try it with older learners. Are we old fogies so encrusted in our ways that we can't learn to even distinguish out-of-band sound particles?

--Larry

Read an interesting article recently about a study that was done that showed that the ability to learn the sounds and imitate the sounds of a particular language begins to diminish quickly after the age of one---which is why it is good, if possible, to expose babies to more than one language.

They also agreed that the continual exposure, as you said, does help after the age of one but becomes increasingly more difficult with age.

Interesting question you ask---I do wonder if I will EVER be able to distinguish those sound. It is so much easier for me to understand Spanish when it is spoken very well by a native English speaker.

toneart - 8-2-2009 at 11:10 AM

Lencho,

I am not sure I agree with your last post, but then I don't fully comprehend what you are saying.

It seems to me that there a lot of knowledgeable gringos on this string who are pretty immersed in speaking Spanish with native speakers. What they/we are doing is trying to do is spell out phonetically, in print, what is essentially a sound thing. This is not an aural medium, so how do you know how the language is filtering through their brains, breaking down linguistically (either consciously or unconsciously) and then comes out of the mouth to satisfy the ear?

All native language speakers initially have difficulty receiving and emitting foreign language sounds. True, it is harder for most adults than it is for children. When it comes to the omission of certain letters, which are silent, or barely audible, i.e. the b and the v, we English speakers don't initially hear it. So you either teach it or the speaker picks it up through immersion until he finally hears it correctly.

Also, for the people here who are curious, I wouldn't dissuade them from coming forward with their questions. We are all in varying stages of learning.

Am I missing your point? Maybe you are saying something I didn't understand...in English!

(The laughing guy is for me trying to comprehend in my own language).

To correct what I think you are saying would be to display a picture of the mouth and show how sounds are formed linguistically. In my opinion, that goes beyond the scope of what we can accomplish here...a bit too pedantic.

It is hard enough for me to keep from pitching forward, head crashing into my keyboard. The only impression I get from that is a backwards KWERTY dented into my forehead. It looks like this:YTREWK! Imagine what that sounds like. :lol:

toneart - 8-2-2009 at 11:16 AM

Yes, Shari...You are right on regarding a musicians ear! Imagine my early torment trying to understand the literal meaning when Ella was Scat Singing. :spingrin:

toneart - 8-2-2009 at 11:34 AM

Thank you Larry. Yes! It is an interesting subject. What a wonderful exchange by all involved in this string.

Que onda buena!

shari - 8-2-2009 at 11:51 AM

sr. toneart...that should be que buena onda... :yes:

simone lencho...igual conmigo

DianaT - 8-2-2009 at 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter
It is so much easier for me to understand Spanish when it is spoken very well by a native English speaker.

This is something I've run into repeatedly and haven't really figured out.

I'm pretty fluent; when I'm in a mixed group speaking Spanish, my Gringo friends understand me better than they do the natives until I forget what language I'm speaking and go off on some tangent with my Spanish-speaking buddies.

Then *nobody* understands me. :lol:

--Larry

It is all about those little differences in sounds, I believe. It is different than correct pronuciation ---much more subtle.

I will use Shari as one example---- :yes:

She is very fluent in Spanish with all the correct pronunciations etc., but she is A LOT easier for me to understand than anyone else in town.

So as fluent as you are, you must also have those little subtle sound things going on for your friends to understand you better.

There is just enough difference---the sounds made are more familiar to our gringo ears, I guess.

Now, what I do not understand are some people who NEVER try to learn to pronounce anything correctly---may never get all the sounds, but it is, IMHO, easy to at least try to pronounce things correctly. I, however, have found some words that I do not think I will ever be able to pronounce.

Diane

toneart - 8-2-2009 at 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
sr. toneart...that should be que buena onda... :yes:

simone lencho...igual conmigo

Si Senora!

This correction is a good example of the difficulties of becoming fluent in a 2nd language.

What we are mainly talking about are idioms; the way native speakers really talk; often regionally. If we were trying to construct the sentence outside of idiomatic context, we learned that in Spanish, the adjective follows the noun...the reverse of English.

Ay! It is difficult bearing the shame of a Gringo.

Oso - 8-2-2009 at 01:45 PM

Q-Vo is for texting/e-mail/tweets etc. :lol:

BTW, I had two years of Southern pronounced French in High School. I can read maybe 30%, but would be hopeless trying to converse with a native speaker. On the other hand I learned Spanish by osmosis. As a result, I am reasonably fluent conversationally (with Mexicans anyway) and I can read, write and spell well enough but I would be hard pressed to quote any grammatical rules. I know instinctively what you are supposed to say and how to say it according to the situation but I can rarely tell you WHY.

the music of language

Mulegena - 8-2-2009 at 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
Yes, Shari...You are right on regarding a musicians ear! Imagine my early torment trying to understand the literal meaning when Ella was Scat Singing. :spingrin:

I don't speak Spanish with a typical gringo accent because, I suppose, I've been around the language all my life and I'm a musician. Mexicans are forever asking me if I'm Italian or French-- can't figure me out (I still can't figure me out, but we're talkin' language not philosophy here)

oxxo - 8-2-2009 at 03:00 PM

What a refreshing change of pace on Nomads with this thread!

I wish I knew how to say the above in Spanish (or some idiom more appropriate)!

I try to listen to my amigos and then copy their sounds. If I ask how to spell the word in Spanish, I really get messed up trying to repeat it. Now that my hearing is failing in one ear, it is becoming more difficult to hear their pronunciations.

!orale!

DianaT - 8-2-2009 at 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo

I try to listen to my amigos and then copy their sounds. If I ask how to spell the word in Spanish, I really get messed up trying to repeat it. Now that my hearing is failing in one ear, it is becoming more difficult to hear their pronunciations.

!orale!

I am primarily a visual learner---sounds can get scrambled for me. So, I often carry a pen and paper and ask someone to write an important word for me. Once I see it, then I can hear it. If they are just spelling it, those pesky hidden sounds can get in the way---I need to see it.

Some do learn more easily through their ears, and others do not. It is also why I can read way more Spanish than I can understand or speak---- :yes:

Diane

toneart - 8-2-2009 at 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter

Quote:

Diane

This is true, Diane.

People learn primarily through one or the other three modes:
Visual
Aural
Tactile

Some do have a blend or balance of all three, but most not. :yes: