BajaNomad - FM2 vs FM3, what is the difference

FM2 vs FM3, what is the difference

CortezBlue - 8-17-2009 at 10:08 AM

I have an FM3 and have for the past 3 or 4 years. I have always been told to get an FM2. What is the difference. Also, I read on another post that you can get an FM2 with a Fidi, which I have, but this option has never been offered to me. Do I want an FM2 if I am going to be driving in and out of Mexico 90% of the time?
:?:

bajalou - 8-17-2009 at 11:06 AM

FM3 is a type of tourist visa. Multiple entries, leaving property in Mexico etc.

FM2 is a Immigration visa. For people who plan on staying FULL TIME in Mexico. It has restrictions on the time one can be out of Mexico during a year and during the 5 years of a FM2. After all renewals, one can apply for citizenship or permanent residency. This also has some limitations as to amount of time one can spend out of Mexico. With FM2, you are supposed to check in and out with Immigration each time you exit or enter. In Baja, it's easy to avoid this requirement if one wants to.

Someone will probably post a lot of detail stuff about all this, but it's my experience, simplified.

DENNIS - 8-17-2009 at 11:15 AM

Maybe this will help:
-----------------

http://www.bajaquest.com/faq/fm2_fm3.htm

CaboRon - 8-17-2009 at 04:52 PM

FM3 is NOT a tourist visa, that is an FMT.

FM comes in many forms .... you can be a renter, you can have a work or investor FM3, etc. etc.

FM2 costs much more per year and would only interest you if you want to have immigrado status and eventually become a citizen. It does have siginificant resident requirements. Sounds like you want to keep your FM3.

David K - 8-17-2009 at 05:22 PM

As I see it, in simple terms:

FM-T: tourists on a vacation

FM-3: Vacationers who want to rent/ lease/ own/ leave a vehicle behind, etc. at a place in Mexico they like and thus become 'part-time residents'.

FM-2: Part time residents who want to make Mexico their 'full time home', but not become citizens of Mexico.

bajalou - 8-17-2009 at 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

FM-2: Part time residents who want to make Mexico their 'full time home', but not become citizens of Mexico.

FM2 for FULL time residents who want to become citizens or permanent resident aliens. There are strict limitations on how much time you can be out of Mexico with a FM2. I completed the process a couple of years ago and don't remember the exact time one can be out of Mexico.

I don't know what Mulegena is referring to as FM1. When I completed the time requirements of FM2, I applied for Immigrado status and was approved. I received a letter confirming this status from Mexico City via the local immigration office. My FM2 booklet was endorsed as well but no new booklet was issued. Only the letter.

DENNIS - 8-17-2009 at 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalou
no new booklet was issued. Only the letter.

That's the way it is. Amen.

gnukid - 8-17-2009 at 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
As I see it, in simple terms:

FM-T: tourists on a vacation

FM-3: Vacationers who want to rent/ lease/ own/ leave a vehicle behind, etc. at a place in Mexico they like and thus become 'part-time residents'.

FM-2: Part time residents who want to make Mexico their 'full time home', but not become citizens of Mexico.

DK this is completely incorrect. Argh. Why do you insist on spouting misinformation based on no references or facts while claiming to promote Baja? Its a damaging pattern that is conspicuous?

Depending on your background, look at the INM site. Speak to an INM agent for clarification. Review http://www.inm.gob.mx for specifics. The info, migratory process and method varies by region you plan to visit and varies by country from which you currently maintain citizenship, in some cases/countries age is a factor, for example New Zealanders from 18-30 etc...

For citizens of USA visiting Baja:

FM-T visa allows up to 180 days for foreigners with multi-entrance and exit.

FM-3 has many flavors, from renter to business person, employee to business owner, full time to part time, volunteer, teacher, student, honorary contributor to the culture, singer etc.. the varieties are extensive. FM-3 is no longer a path to national. Each book is good for 5 years, presumably for 2 x 5 year periods.

FM-2 also has many flavors and is for those who are on a path to National with a commitment to living primarily in Mexico and one should conform the restrictions of time out of the country in order to complete the qualifications toward becoming a national.

If anyone has a specific question you can call or visit the INM. Do not rely on postings here which clearly can only provide anecdotal experiences which would reflect past personal experiences and not the present.

Something to be aware of is that many people have no experience, such as FM-T holders, Mexican Nationals and many countries are treated uniquely, laws change from year to year, INM agents also may have limited experiences or limited language skills. Be patient and expect things to change often.

I just lifted my post

Mulegena - 8-17-2009 at 10:35 PM

because I realize it didn't help clarify anything, and in fact was incorrect. I've looked, as I said I would, and it appears that the FM-1 is the application form for the FM-2 and 3.

The best advice so far, imo, is that of gnukid who posted a pertinent link and suggested to follow up there.

DENNIS - 8-17-2009 at 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mulegena
because I realize it didn't help clarify anything, and in fact was incorrect. I've looked, as I said I would, and it appears that the FM-1 is the application form for the FM-2 and 3.

I've never heard of an FM1. Do you mean FMT? If so, you're wrong again. The T - 2/3 are unrelated.

http://portal.sre.gob.mx.conreinounido/pdf/Guide_on_visas_migratory_documents.pdf

Mulegena - 8-17-2009 at 11:04 PM

FM-1 APPLICATION: A form which must be carefully typewritten in Spanish. You can obtain this form at any Immigration office. We strongly recommend that the Immigration office or a visa service prepare this form for you (a minimal fee will be charged).

Take all these documents and letters to the Immigration office or visa service. Upon completion of your file, you will be asked to take the "Form # 5" to the bank where the appropriate fees are paid and receipted. They will keep 1 copy, and you will return the rest to the Immigration office. Now you're finished. It will take about 1 month for your file to go to Mexicali and be returned with your new FM-2 or FM-3.

I don't have my old FM-3 or current FM-2 application forms with me to check. I believe it is this form that this is referencing.

Bottom line: Check with Inmigrado or a competent Mexican lawyer or notario-- imho.
[Edited on 8-18-2009 by Mulegena]

[Edited on 8-18-2009 by Mulegena]

grace59 - 8-18-2009 at 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid

FM-3 has many flavors, from renter to business person, employee to business owner, full time to part time, volunteer, teacher, student, honorary contributor to the culture, singer etc.. the varieties are extensive. FM-3 is no longer a path to national. Each book is good for 5 years, presumably for 2 x 5 year periods.

-

I find this statement confusing. What do you mean by "Each book is good for 5 years, presumably for a 2x5 year periods." ??? I just got my FM3 and am told that it must be renewed each year.

Russ - 8-18-2009 at 06:52 AM

Yes, the FM-3 book is for 5years then a new book for the Fm-2. The FM-2 you keep when you get the inmigrado status and no more renewals so take care of it.

gnukid - 8-18-2009 at 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by grace59

Quote:

I find this statement confusing. What do you mean by "Each book is good for 5 years, presumably for a 2x5 year periods." ??? I just got my FM3 and am told that it must be renewed each year.

Yes, the visa must be renewed each year on the same date, meaning you must should initiate the renewal prior to the expiration date generally and complete the process before the expiration date. Though this is a bit confusing as there is a time allowed to complete it specified as 35 days, if you are late there can be fees.

Each book is good for 5 years total, then you need to apply for a new book. I am not sure, but I think you can have 2 x 5 year periods of the FM3, then you may be required to change to different status such as FM2.

In my experience the INM doesn't communicate all your options, you must ask or tell them what you want. For example, you can change your status at anytime, you can end your visa and begin again, many options are available.

Many many types of visas exist as well as exceptions and special requests. Most agents know very little overall about the laws and the options because no one asks and no one looks it up.

For example, note the discussion above about the FM1 form which every single applicant for FM2/3 had to fill out first, yet only one person on BN even recognized it. That's an example of how few complete the process and even fewer pay attention.

Go to http://www.inm.gob.mx/ which has now become http://www.inami.gob.mx/

A list of visas:

FMT: forma migratoria aplicable para la característica de turista extranjero.

FMVL: forma migratoria aplicable para la característica de visitante local marítimo.

FMN: forma migratoria aplicable para la característica de persona de negocios proveniente de E.U.A. y Canadá en sus 4 modalidades: comerciante-inversionista, profesional, transferencia de personal y visitante de negocios.

FM6: forma migratoria aplicable para la característica de transmigrante.

FMVC: forma migratoria aplicable para la característica de visitante y consejero con fines de negocios en sus 4 modalidades: técnico, consejero, transferencia de personal y visitante de negocios.

FM2: forma migratoria aplicable para la calidad de inmigrante e inmigrado, en sus 9 modalidades: artista y deportista, asimilado, confianza, científico, familiar, inversionista, profesional, rentista, técnico.

FM3: forma migratoria aplicable para la calidad de No Inmigrante.

FMVA: forma migratoria aplicable para la característica de visitante agrícola temporal que ingresa por la frontera sur del país (Chiapas).

FMVL: forma migratoria aplicable para la característica de visitante local fronterizo de origen guatemalteco o beliceño, que ingresa por Chiapas o Quintana Roo.

FME: forma migratoria aplicable únicamente con fines estadísticos para el mexicano residente en el país o en el extranjero.

David K - 8-18-2009 at 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid

Quote:

Did you not read the first line that says "As I see it"?

The status (tourist, Part Timer, etc.) is the person BEFORE getting the visa..

ie. I said: "FM-2: Part time residents who want to make Mexico their 'full time home'..."

If Mexico will be your full time home, then FM-2 is the next step.

Sorry it was confusing to some of you... The whole process is confusing with so much detail being posted over the years... I only wanted to make it short and simple for the casual reader. Gnukid, please stop being so insulting all the time.

gnukid - 8-18-2009 at 07:40 AM

DK,

The issue I have with your comments is that you are completely incorrect and yet you claim to be an expert on Baja. Your comments are so misleading as to be conspicuous.

In this case and in the your other recent post you are not only misleading people about Baja but about legal issues.

If you think its insulting to be called out for being misleading, imagine how we feel about you. You are actively involved in a dinsinfo campaing that would cause harm to people and further to Baja.

Of course, you will never apologize for your horrific behavior, and as always you squirm your way through trying to justify the most convoluted and false points.

I am particularly concerned for a number of reasons: beyond the obvious concern for peoples well being, it seems that in this time of concern about travel your comments hurt tourism greatly. While, you claim to support tourism, it seems your actions are largely otherwise.

Personally I have passion for the history of Baja, indigenous people and the Mission influence on culture. It is my concern that your actions are a sever detriment to increasing interest in Baja, tourism and interest in Baja history.

Please, you clearly have no interest in the facts, if you did you would acknowledge the problem with your actions and the false statements you promote. This is serious issue. If you persist in misinforming we will persist in correcting you and in denouncing your misinfo, threats and intimidation techniques.

k-rico - 8-18-2009 at 07:51 AM

A Mexican immigration attorney prepared this for me about 4 years ago. These are his words.

Even though FM2 documents are for immigrants and FM3 documents are for non-immigrants, and the categories within them are different along with their respective requirements, in a practical sense they are almost the same. The reasoning behind this is that both provide permission to live in Mexico for one year, they both can be renewed annually up to five years, and it takes the same amount of time (5 years) in order for you to acquire Mexican nationality and citizenship.

In short, you can choose which ever FM2 or FM3 category you want and it does not make any substantial difference, except if you want to be employed within Mexico only certain categories will do.

FM2 Rentista (Immigrant rentist)- When the immigrant plans to live off his own capital or the interest that it produces, coming from abroad or from investments in Mexico (approx. $19,500 verifiable yearly passive income)

FM2 Inversionistas (Immigrant investor)- For immigrants that have made an investment within Mexico. The investment must be of at least $161,000.

FM2 Profesional.- For immigrants that will engage in professional economic activities in Mexico.

FM2 Familiares (Immigrant Family member) – For immigrants that will be economic dependents of a Mexican national to whom they have close family relationship.

FM2 Asimilados (Assimilated Immigrant Family member) – For immigrants that have been at least two years legally in Mexico and have a close family relationship with a Mexican national.

FM3 Visitante Rentista (Rentist visitor visa)- When the foreign national plans to live temporarily in Mexico off his own capital or the interest that it produces, coming from abroad or from investments in Mexico (approx. $12,000 verifiable yearly passive income)

FM3 Visitante Inversionista (Investment visa) – For visitors that have made an investment within Mexico. The investment must be of at least $105,000 if made in a business or $161,000 if made in real estate. The legal fee is $2400 and external expenses are $600. The legal fee can be considered part of the investment.

FM3 Visitante Profesional (Professional worker visa) – For visitors that will engage in professional activities in Mexico. The legal fee is $2200 and external expenses are $2500.

FM3 Otros visitants (other visitors) – For visitors that are not described in other categories and have a family relationship with a Mexican national.

David K - 8-18-2009 at 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
DK,

The issue I have with your comments is that you are completely incorrect and yet you claim to be an expert on Baja. Your comments are so misleading as to be conspicuous.

In this case and in the your other recent post you are not only misleading people about Baja but about legal issues.

If you think its insulting to be called out for being misleading, imagine how we feel about you. You are actively involved in a dinsinfo campaing that would cause harm to people and further to Baja.

Of course, you will never apologize for your horrific behavior, and as always you squirm your way through trying to justify the most convoluted and false points.

I am particularly concerned for a number of reasons: beyond the obvious concern for peoples well being, it seems that in this time of concern about travel your comments hurt tourism greatly. While, you claim to support tourism, it seems your actions are largely otherwise.

Personally I have passion for the history of Baja, indigenous people and the Mission influence on culture. It is my concern that your actions are a sever detriment to increasing interest in Baja, tourism and interest in Baja history.

Please, you clearly have no interest in the facts, if you did you would acknowledge the problem with your actions and the false statements you promote. This is serious issue. If you persist in misinforming we will persist in correcting you and in denouncing your misinfo, threats and intimidation techniques.

Just to show you that it is YOU who are posting mis-information: I have NEVER claimed to be an expert on Baja, never.

There is nothing mis-leading about my comment on the visa, I was stating in the easiest terms a short, quick description of how I see the visas.. how I see them.. and who they would apply to. I still don't see any errors in that. Find someone else to post errors about please.

gnukid - 8-18-2009 at 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
A Mexican immigration attorney prepared this for me about 4 years ago. These are his words.

Even though FM2 documents are for immigrants and FM3 documents are for non-immigrants, and the categories within them are different along with their respective requirements, in a practical sense they are almost the same. The reasoning behind this is that both provide permission to live in Mexico for one year, they both can be renewed annually up to five years, and it takes the same amount of time (5 years) in order for you to acquire Mexican nationality and citizenship.

In short, you can choose which ever FM2 or FM3 category you want and it does not make any substantial difference, except if you want to be employed within Mexico only certain categories will do.

FM2 Rentista (Immigrant rentist)- When the immigrant plans to live off his own capital or the interest that it produces, coming from abroad or from investments in Mexico (approx. $19,500 verifiable yearly passive income)

FM2 Inversionistas (Immigrant investor)- For immigrants that have made an investment within Mexico. The investment must be of at least $161,000.

FM2 Profesional.- For immigrants that will engage in professional economic activities in Mexico.

FM2 Familiares (Immigrant Family member) – For immigrants that will be economic dependents of a Mexican national to whom they have close family relationship.

FM2 Asimilados (Assimilated Immigrant Family member) – For immigrants that have been at least two years legally in Mexico and have a close family relationship with a Mexican national.

FM3 Visitante Rentista (Rentist visitor visa)- When the foreign national plans to live temporarily in Mexico off his own capital or the interest that it produces, coming from abroad or from investments in Mexico (approx. $12,000 verifiable yearly passive income)

FM3 Visitante Inversionista (Investment visa) – For visitors that have made an investment within Mexico. The investment must be of at least $105,000 if made in a business or $161,000 if made in real estate. The legal fee is $2400 and external expenses are $600. The legal fee can be considered part of the investment.

FM3 Visitante Profesional (Professional worker visa) – For visitors that will engage in professional activities in Mexico. The legal fee is $2200 and external expenses are $2500.

FM3 Otros visitants (other visitors) – For visitors that are not described in other categories and have a family relationship with a Mexican national.

Since then, there was a small change in that he FM3 was ruled to not establish residency for 5 years, however there has been cases where people in la Paz filed cases to note that the FM3 is/should be considered to establish residency for 5 years like the FM2 and of those cases many have been accepted and those applicants were naturalized.

It should be noted, that INM or INAMI as they are now apparently called does not handle naturalization, so this hand off to SRE and the office of exterior relations explains why the INM can not answer questions about Naturalization, of course.

Basically, you can see that there is some disconnect in the process, and it is organic and changing. And the so called time requirements of an FM2 are only for qualifications so its fine to have an FM2 and fail qualifications for Naturalization and continue to establish a contiguous 5 year period.

Meaning, currently, anyone considering a FM3 should strongly consider a FM2 which is the recognized path to Naturalization. There are no drawbacks to a FM2 over an FM3 and many benefits and no reason to be concerned abot the time limits as there is no "penalty".

http://www.sre.gob.mx/tramites/nacionalidad/tema1c.htm

http://www.bajainsider.com/baja-life/immigration/mexican-cit...

k-rico - 8-18-2009 at 08:12 AM

Changing from a FM-3 to FM-2 is on my list of things to do.

There is NO final word on this stuff

Lee - 8-18-2009 at 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
As I see it, in simple terms:

FM-2: Part time residents who want to make Mexico their 'full time home', but not become citizens of Mexico.

My impression (hey, gnu? Notice I said ''my impression?'') of the FM2 is ''full time in Mexico,'' yes, but it's for those who are wanting National status, i.e., want to become MX citizens.

Otherwise, k-rico nailed it -- which includes the opinion of his attorney -- and if you can't trust your attorney, who can you trust?

David, other than politics posted at the Forum, your experience and expertise is appreciated by many here. I am one. I'm sure you have the ability to ignore the rantings of those in the lunatic fringe.

Hey gnu? Do a time out, will you? Your points and expertise and ability to write well is always appreciated, as well. This forum would be a lesser one without your input. David's experiences are his own and many will agree that regardless of what the ''law'' looks like on paper, EVERY Migracion office is different, ALL Agents working within those offices are at different levels, and, IN MY EXPERIENCE, no two people get the same experience.

So, do your best, play nice, and have fun.

CortezBlue - 8-18-2009 at 08:35 AM

Quote:

I think David is going for tripple double probation Nomad Status

DK this is completely incorrect. Argh. Why do you insist on spouting misinformation based on no references or facts while claiming to promote Baja? Its a damaging pattern that is conspicuous?

Depending on your background, look at the INM site. Speak to an INM agent for clarification. Review http://www.inm.gob.mx for specifics. The info, migratory process and method varies by region you plan to visit and varies by country from which you currently maintain citizenship, in some cases/countries age is a factor, for example New Zealanders from 18-30 etc...

For citizens of USA visiting Baja:

FM-T visa allows up to 180 days for foreigners with multi-entrance and exit.

FM-3 has many flavors, from renter to business person, employee to business owner, full time to part time, volunteer, teacher, student, honorary contributor to the culture, singer etc.. the varieties are extensive. FM-3 is no longer a path to national. Each book is good for 5 years, presumably for 2 x 5 year periods.

FM-2 also has many flavors and is for those who are on a path to National with a commitment to living primarily in Mexico and one should conform the restrictions of time out of the country in order to complete the qualifications toward becoming a national.

If anyone has a specific question you can call or visit the INM. Do not rely on postings here which clearly can only provide anecdotal experiences which would reflect past personal experiences and not the present.

Something to be aware of is that many people have no experience, such as FM-T holders, Mexican Nationals and many countries are treated uniquely, laws change from year to year, INM agents also may have limited experiences or limited language skills. Be patient and expect things to change often.

gnukid - 8-18-2009 at 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
As I see it, in simple terms:

FM-2: Part time residents who want to make Mexico their 'full time home', but not become citizens of Mexico.

My impression (hey, gnu? Notice I said ''my impression?'') of the FM2 is ''full time in Mexico,'' yes, but it's for those who are wanting National status, i.e., want to become MX citizens...

It is confusing and often changing. And its tough to be under time constraints and forced to make a decision while uniformed or misinformed as can be the case when speaking to agents or reading here.

So, to make it clear: Just because the FM2 specifies a time limit for being out of the country to qualify for residency, doesn't mean that you must maintain time limits to qualify to maintain the FM2. So in effect recent changes have made the two visas more similar and also the FM3 less beneficial so there is really little reason to not just get an FM2 as anyone who has been through the process as well as any informed agent would tell you.

Now, Lee, why would I take a break from correcting massive misinfo that hurts people and hurts Baja? That, along with the high number of posts by DK that mislead seems to be a serious issue. If the minority posters here allowed you Lee and DK to have your way, Baja Nomad would continue to misinform and would be more so a site apparently devoted to reducing travel to Baja, full of misinformation reducing community involvement?

Last word from me on this -- anyone else want the last word, go for it.

Lee - 8-18-2009 at 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Now, Lee, why would I take a break from correcting massive misinfo that hurts people and hurts Baja? That, along with the high number of posts by DK that mislead seems to be a serious issue. If the minority posters here allowed you Lee and DK to have your way, Baja Nomad would continue to misinform and would be more so a site apparently devoted to reducing travel to Baja, full of misinformation reducing community involvement?

Misinformation hurts a few, granted, but the extent that you (gnu) think you need to save this Forum from that misinformation is OVER THE TOP. NOBODY, me, David, or you, has all the answers.

Your attack on David and the abundance of insults is uncalled for. You don't like David, that's clear. Whatever happened between the two of you could be cleared up, if you wanted it to be. Why the rant? Why don't you just move on or let go? You clearly are looking for an argument or a fight.

Oh and by the way, who put you in charge of monitoring the number of David's posts? And do you think David is purposely misleading people with his information? YOUR agenda is coming through here. It takes away from your credibility. Clean up your act!

As far as me misleading anyone or writing misinformation, that must be another thread -- again, that you're holding on to.

David did write ''in his experience,'' and I did write ''in my impression.''

Here's a great example. Last Winter, I applied for FM2 status from FM3. With me was a friend renewing her FM2. It was 32 days from her Renewal Date. The Agent in La Paz took her Application, AND MONEY, and she left. She returned 10 days later to see if the Application was in and she was told that she could NOT apply earlier than ''30'' days of her Renewal Date and that she would have to reapply for her FM2. When she complained that no one, including the Agent she dealt with, had informed her of the ''30'' day Rule, the new Agent she was speaking with shrugged. She lost time and money.

So, this is the unprofessional way she was treated, and it is HER experience of what might happen again if she were early in filing an Application. Should she trust the Agents who are there to help her? Well, she doesn't -- and because of her experience, I don't either. (The Agent who took her Application and money is not new to that office and, I BELIEVE, knew what he was doing!)

No one here is THE expert -- including gnu -- but some here like to think they are.

And the insults continue, don't they? Tsk. Tsk.

gnukid - 8-18-2009 at 09:57 AM

Alright let's take this point by point and do our best to look for sources and help each other out.

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee

Misinformation hurts a few, granted, but the extent that you (gnu) think you need to save this Forum from that misinformation is OVER THE TOP. NOBODY, me, David, or you, has all the answers.

Your attack on David and the abundance of insults is uncalled for. You don't like David, that's clear. Whatever happened between the two of you could be cleared up, if you wanted it to be. Why the rant? Why don't you just move on or let go? You clearly are looking for an argument or a fight.

We pointed out that David was misinformed, repeatedly and with no concern nor retraction. This is hardly a personal attack, its a point of correction which is important to travelers and residents. If you have a specific point to make about insults please do make it and note where an insult was made.

Quote:

Oh and by the way, who put you in charge of monitoring the number of David's posts? And do you think David is purposely misleading people with his information? YOUR agenda is coming through here. It takes away from your credibility. Clean up your act!

Anyone is welcome to post here, my note pointed out that DK is clearly in the category of high number of posts and I noted the misinformation. I think this is relevant.

What strikes is the defense of misinformation by DK and you. That is odd? This is isn't the first time either. And when I researched specifics extensively for you, you replied that you would not read and references? This is becoming quite an odd exchange, defending misinfo and refusing to review facts while becoming increasingly emotional and defensive? Hmmm

Quote:

As far as me misleading anyone or writing misinformation, that must be another thread -- again, that you're holding on to.

David did write ''in his experience,'' and I did write ''in my impression.''

Qualifying misinfo doesn't make it defendable? For both of you to continue to belabor and defend the misinfo is truly an absurd notion. Shall we all discuss issues in topsy turvy language? And then defend it? This is becoming quite silly.

Quote:

Here's a great example. Last Winter, I applied for FM2 status from FM3. With me was a friend renewing her FM2. It was 32 days from her Renewal Date. The Agent in La Paz took her Application, AND MONEY, and she left. She returned 10 days later to see if the Application was in and she was told that she could NOT apply earlier than ''30'' days of her Renewal Date and that she would have to reapply for her FM2. When she complained that no one, including the Agent she dealt with, had informed her of the ''30'' day Rule, the new Agent she was speaking with shrugged. She lost time and money.

So, this is the unprofessional way she was treated, and it is HER experience of what might happen again if she were early in filing an Application. Should she trust the Agents who are there to help her? Well, she doesn't -- and because of her experience, I don't either. (The Agent who took her Application and money is not new to that office and, I BELIEVE, knew what he was doing!)

Once again, there is something missing here. No one can pay cash directly to the INM agents in La Paz, not possible. If a payment was made using formata SAT Cinco or the newer INM formata directly to a bank that payment would stand and be valid until the visa was completed. If there was a delay or problem resulting in a fine there would the additional payment however no payment would have been lost. That isn't possible unless the individuals lost the receipts and copies for payment.

What you describe is hardly a case of misinformation, and if the timeline is correct, she arrived first 31 days prior and 2nd 10 days later back, she would have 21 days still prior to the expiration and with plenty of time to submit her application and the payment receipt would apply, resulting in no loss of money or time, the 2nd application would have been presented, the signed and stamped form would be her valid visa in the interim and she could pick it up anytime in the following year. So there is something missing or a misunderstanding.

As you describe it, the INM agent submitted the forms with the application date for signature with the SubDelgado Licensio Oswaldo Ramirez Gomez who correctly noted she must refill out the application due to the small error, not everything, just the date and perhaps the form which would have had the wrong date, otherwise they would be breaking the law and they would be in trouble and the office would be in jeopardy.

I am sorry that happened but by no means is there any suggestion that money was lost unless she lost her receipts and no time was lost either. Apparently there has been a misunderstanding.

Quote:

No one here is THE expert -- including gnu -- but some here like to think they are.

And the insults continue, don't they? Tsk. Tsk.

Now, if you must insist that correcting what is incorrect with references to the facts is insulting than so be it.

I have no idea why I notice these discrepancies and misinfo or why I feel the need to correct so many, I am a simple person who apparently pays enough attention to notice. Frankly I do have some concern for those who would like to travel to Baja and are being misled toward an unpleasant experience based on wrong info, so it is my desire to contribute to BN to correct the gross proliferation of misinformation.

Let's please focus on the facts, let's try to help each other out and if you make a mistake it's fine, but please do acknowledge it and try to correct it in order to leave a database of helpful info and links.

http://www.inm.gob.mx/

http://www.sre.gob.mx/

karenintx - 8-18-2009 at 10:15 AM

No opinion on FM2 or FM3…but here is what I would suggest.

When it comes times to either upgrade or just need to get a new book you should make a copy of every page and keep this for your records as INM does not give you back your old FM2/FM3. We had to get a new FM3 book after only three years. During our remodeling we were coming and going every week for four months so it ate-up the pages fast.

.

David K - 8-18-2009 at 10:31 AM

Gnu, my high number of posts has more to do with the fact that I am the oldest Nomad after Doug (Aug. 2002) along with the amount of travel and history I like to share here... and chating with my amigos... etc.

Dennis is the #1 'posting' Nomad based on the much shorter time he has been here in relation to the number of posts he has... Soon Dennis will have more overall posts than I, I predict.

Too bad the amount of mis-information really stems from Mexico's poor ability to clearly post the rules/ laws ... and the migra officers poor ability to follow the letter of the law. Every migra one speaks to about this gives a different answer. So who's to say any Nomad is right or wrong if the Mexican government officials are not consistant with answers???

Please chill out... do the best you can... if you see an error in facts from me or anybody here, just state what you believe or know is true WITHOUT the insults or personal comments. It is that easy... I want to be corrected if I am wrong. Do try and provide evidence to strenghthen your view, however.

MitchMan - 8-20-2009 at 10:55 AM

It has been strongly suggested that once you finish one or two 5 year terms with an FM3, you should consider an FM2. Well, what if you want to own a Fido home in the baja and want to be able to visit it six times a year for two weeks each visit (you know, a vacation home). That is to say, what if you don't ever intend on living full time or even as mush as six months per year in Mexico, but you want to continue to hold the fido house for over 10 years, but just occasionally visit it as a vacation home? Can you do that by perpetually renewing an FM3? Or, are you forced into an FM2 wherein you must be in Mexico for long periods of time?

gnukid - 8-20-2009 at 12:25 PM

There is a misunderstanding about FM2. The FM2 allows you to come and go, the time requirement limiting time out of the country to 18 months is for establishing residency toward Naturalization or permanent resident, which you may or may not choose to exercise. You can have a FM2 and still visit every 6 months.

The last time I checked an FM3 visa is available for 5 years twice for a total of 10 years. Though I have no idea whether anyone has had a FM3 for longer periods.

So, it seems that most people would be best with a FM2.

Perhaps those with more time and experience can offer insight.