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CortezBlue
Super Nomad
Posts: 2213
Registered: 11-14-2006
Location: Fenix/San Phelipe
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FM2 vs FM3, what is the difference
I have an FM3 and have for the past 3 or 4 years. I have always been told to get an FM2. What is the difference. Also, I read on another post that
you can get an FM2 with a Fidi, which I have, but this option has never been offered to me. Do I want an FM2 if I am going to be driving in and out
of Mexico 90% of the time?
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
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FM3 is a type of tourist visa. Multiple entries, leaving property in Mexico etc.
FM2 is a Immigration visa. For people who plan on staying FULL TIME in Mexico. It has restrictions on the time one can be out of Mexico during a
year and during the 5 years of a FM2. After all renewals, one can apply for citizenship or permanent residency. This also has some limitations as to
amount of time one can spend out of Mexico. With FM2, you are supposed to check in and out with Immigration each time you exit or enter. In Baja,
it's easy to avoid this requirement if one wants to.
Someone will probably post a lot of detail stuff about all this, but it's my experience, simplified.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Maybe this will help:
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http://www.bajaquest.com/faq/fm2_fm3.htm
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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FM3 is NOT a tourist visa, that is an FMT.
FM comes in many forms .... you can be a renter, you can have a work or investor FM3, etc. etc.
FM2 costs much more per year and would only interest you if you want to have immigrado status and eventually become a citizen. It does have
siginificant resident requirements. Sounds like you want to keep your FM3.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65407
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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As I see it, in simple terms:
FM-T: tourists on a vacation
FM-3: Vacationers who want to rent/ lease/ own/ leave a vehicle behind, etc. at a place in Mexico they like and thus become 'part-time residents'.
FM-2: Part time residents who want to make Mexico their 'full time home', but not become citizens of Mexico.
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
FM-2: Part time residents who want to make Mexico their 'full time home', but not become citizens of Mexico. |
FM2 for FULL time residents who want to become citizens or permanent resident aliens. There are strict limitations on how much time you can be out of
Mexico with a FM2. I completed the process a couple of years ago and don't remember the exact time one can be out of Mexico.
I don't know what Mulegena is referring to as FM1. When I completed the time requirements of FM2, I applied for Immigrado status and was approved. I
received a letter confirming this status from Mexico City via the local immigration office. My FM2 booklet was endorsed as well but no new booklet
was issued. Only the letter.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
no new booklet was issued. Only the letter. |
That's the way it is. Amen.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
As I see it, in simple terms:
FM-T: tourists on a vacation
FM-3: Vacationers who want to rent/ lease/ own/ leave a vehicle behind, etc. at a place in Mexico they like and thus become 'part-time residents'.
FM-2: Part time residents who want to make Mexico their 'full time home', but not become citizens of Mexico. |
DK this is completely incorrect. Argh. Why do you insist on spouting misinformation based on no references or facts while claiming to promote Baja?
Its a damaging pattern that is conspicuous?
Depending on your background, look at the INM site. Speak to an INM agent for clarification. Review http://www.inm.gob.mx for specifics. The info, migratory process and method varies by region you plan to visit and varies by country from which
you currently maintain citizenship, in some cases/countries age is a factor, for example New Zealanders from 18-30 etc...
For citizens of USA visiting Baja:
FM-T visa allows up to 180 days for foreigners with multi-entrance and exit.
FM-3 has many flavors, from renter to business person, employee to business owner, full time to part time, volunteer, teacher, student, honorary
contributor to the culture, singer etc.. the varieties are extensive. FM-3 is no longer a path to national. Each book is good for 5 years, presumably
for 2 x 5 year periods.
FM-2 also has many flavors and is for those who are on a path to National with a commitment to living primarily in Mexico and one should conform the
restrictions of time out of the country in order to complete the qualifications toward becoming a national.
If anyone has a specific question you can call or visit the INM. Do not rely on postings here which clearly can only provide anecdotal experiences
which would reflect past personal experiences and not the present.
Something to be aware of is that many people have no experience, such as FM-T holders, Mexican Nationals and many countries are treated uniquely, laws
change from year to year, INM agents also may have limited experiences or limited language skills. Be patient and expect things to change often.
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Mulegena
Super Nomad
Posts: 2412
Registered: 11-7-2006
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I just lifted my post
because I realize it didn't help clarify anything, and in fact was incorrect. I've looked, as I said I would, and it appears that the FM-1 is the
application form for the FM-2 and 3.
The best advice so far, imo, is that of gnukid who posted a pertinent link and suggested to follow up there.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mulegena
because I realize it didn't help clarify anything, and in fact was incorrect. I've looked, as I said I would, and it appears that the FM-1 is the
application form for the FM-2 and 3.
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I've never heard of an FM1. Do you mean FMT? If so, you're wrong again. The T - 2/3 are unrelated.
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Mulegena
Super Nomad
Posts: 2412
Registered: 11-7-2006
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http://portal.sre.gob.mx.conreinounido/pdf/Guide_on_visas_migratory_documents.pdf
FM-1 APPLICATION: A form which must be carefully typewritten in Spanish. You can obtain this form at any Immigration office. We strongly recommend
that the Immigration office or a visa service prepare this form for you (a minimal fee will be charged).
Take all these documents and letters to the Immigration office or visa service. Upon completion of your file, you will be asked to take the "Form # 5"
to the bank where the appropriate fees are paid and receipted. They will keep 1 copy, and you will return the rest to the Immigration office. Now
you're finished. It will take about 1 month for your file to go to Mexicali and be returned with your new FM-2 or FM-3.
I don't have my old FM-3 or current FM-2 application forms with me to check. I believe it is this form that this is referencing.
Bottom line: Check with Inmigrado or a competent Mexican lawyer or notario-- imho.
[Edited on 8-18-2009 by Mulegena]
[Edited on 8-18-2009 by Mulegena]
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grace59
Senior Nomad
Posts: 614
Registered: 9-14-2004
Location: San Felipe, Baja, Mexico
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
FM-3 has many flavors, from renter to business person, employee to business owner, full time to part time, volunteer, teacher, student, honorary
contributor to the culture, singer etc.. the varieties are extensive. FM-3 is no longer a path to national. Each book is good for 5 years, presumably
for 2 x 5 year periods.
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I find this statement confusing. What do you mean by "Each book is good for 5 years, presumably for a 2x5 year periods." ??? I just got my FM3 and
am told that it must be renewed each year.
Whenever I hear that rainy, chill wind blow. I think it may be time to head for Mexico. Tengo que obedecer mi corazon!
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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Yes, the FM-3 book is for 5years then a new book for the Fm-2. The FM-2 you keep when you get the inmigrado status and no more renewals so take care
of it.
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by grace59
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
FM-3 has many flavors, from renter to business person, employee to business owner, full time to part time, volunteer, teacher, student, honorary
contributor to the culture, singer etc.. the varieties are extensive. FM-3 is no longer a path to national. Each book is good for 5 years, presumably
for 2 x 5 year periods.
- |
I find this statement confusing. What do you mean by "Each book is good for 5 years, presumably for a 2x5 year periods." ??? I just got my FM3 and
am told that it must be renewed each year. |
Yes, the visa must be renewed each year on the same date, meaning you must should initiate the renewal prior to the expiration date generally and
complete the process before the expiration date. Though this is a bit confusing as there is a time allowed to complete it specified as 35 days, if you
are late there can be fees.
Each book is good for 5 years total, then you need to apply for a new book. I am not sure, but I think you can have 2 x 5 year periods of the FM3,
then you may be required to change to different status such as FM2.
In my experience the INM doesn't communicate all your options, you must ask or tell them what you want. For example, you can change your status at
anytime, you can end your visa and begin again, many options are available.
Many many types of visas exist as well as exceptions and special requests. Most agents know very little overall about the laws and the options because
no one asks and no one looks it up.
For example, note the discussion above about the FM1 form which every single applicant for FM2/3 had to fill out first, yet only one person on BN even
recognized it. That's an example of how few complete the process and even fewer pay attention.
Go to http://www.inm.gob.mx/ which has now become http://www.inami.gob.mx/
A list of visas:
FMT: forma migratoria aplicable para la característica de turista extranjero.
FMVL: forma migratoria aplicable para la característica de visitante local marítimo.
FMN: forma migratoria aplicable para la característica de persona de negocios proveniente de E.U.A. y Canadá en sus 4 modalidades:
comerciante-inversionista, profesional, transferencia de personal y visitante de negocios.
FM6: forma migratoria aplicable para la característica de transmigrante.
FMVC: forma migratoria aplicable para la característica de visitante y consejero con fines de negocios en sus 4 modalidades: técnico, consejero,
transferencia de personal y visitante de negocios.
FM2: forma migratoria aplicable para la calidad de inmigrante e inmigrado, en sus 9 modalidades: artista y deportista, asimilado, confianza,
científico, familiar, inversionista, profesional, rentista, técnico.
FM3: forma migratoria aplicable para la calidad de No Inmigrante.
FMVA: forma migratoria aplicable para la característica de visitante agrícola temporal que ingresa por la frontera sur del país (Chiapas).
FMVL: forma migratoria aplicable para la característica de visitante local fronterizo de origen guatemalteco o beliceño, que ingresa por Chiapas o
Quintana Roo.
FME: forma migratoria aplicable únicamente con fines estadísticos para el mexicano residente en el país o en el extranjero.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65407
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
As I see it, in simple terms:
FM-T: tourists on a vacation
FM-3: Vacationers who want to rent/ lease/ own/ leave a vehicle behind, etc. at a place in Mexico they like and thus become 'part-time residents'.
FM-2: Part time residents who want to make Mexico their 'full time home', but not become citizens of Mexico. |
DK this is completely incorrect. Argh. Why do you insist on spouting misinformation based on no references or facts while claiming to promote Baja?
Its a damaging pattern that is conspicuous?
Depending on your background, look at the INM site. Speak to an INM agent for clarification. Review http://www.inm.gob.mx for specifics. The info, migratory process and method varies by region you plan to visit and varies by country from which
you currently maintain citizenship, in some cases/countries age is a factor, for example New Zealanders from 18-30 etc...
For citizens of USA visiting Baja:
FM-T visa allows up to 180 days for foreigners with multi-entrance and exit.
FM-3 has many flavors, from renter to business person, employee to business owner, full time to part time, volunteer, teacher, student, honorary
contributor to the culture, singer etc.. the varieties are extensive. FM-3 is no longer a path to national. Each book is good for 5 years, presumably
for 2 x 5 year periods.
FM-2 also has many flavors and is for those who are on a path to National with a commitment to living primarily in Mexico and one should conform the
restrictions of time out of the country in order to complete the qualifications toward becoming a national.
If anyone has a specific question you can call or visit the INM. Do not rely on postings here which clearly can only provide anecdotal experiences
which would reflect past personal experiences and not the present.
Something to be aware of is that many people have no experience, such as FM-T holders, Mexican Nationals and many countries are treated uniquely, laws
change from year to year, INM agents also may have limited experiences or limited language skills. Be patient and expect things to change often.
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Did you not read the first line that says "As I see it"?
The status (tourist, Part Timer, etc.) is the person BEFORE getting the visa..
ie. I said: "FM-2: Part time residents who want to make Mexico their 'full time home'..."
If Mexico will be your full time home, then FM-2 is the next step.
Sorry it was confusing to some of you... The whole process is confusing with so much detail being posted over the years... I only wanted to make it
short and simple for the casual reader. Gnukid, please stop being so insulting all the time.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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DK,
The issue I have with your comments is that you are completely incorrect and yet you claim to be an expert on Baja. Your comments are so misleading as
to be conspicuous.
In this case and in the your other recent post you are not only misleading people about Baja but about legal issues.
If you think its insulting to be called out for being misleading, imagine how we feel about you. You are actively involved in a dinsinfo campaing that
would cause harm to people and further to Baja.
Of course, you will never apologize for your horrific behavior, and as always you squirm your way through trying to justify the most convoluted and
false points.
I am particularly concerned for a number of reasons: beyond the obvious concern for peoples well being, it seems that in this time of concern about
travel your comments hurt tourism greatly. While, you claim to support tourism, it seems your actions are largely otherwise.
Personally I have passion for the history of Baja, indigenous people and the Mission influence on culture. It is my concern that your actions are a
sever detriment to increasing interest in Baja, tourism and interest in Baja history.
Please, you clearly have no interest in the facts, if you did you would acknowledge the problem with your actions and the false statements you
promote. This is serious issue. If you persist in misinforming we will persist in correcting you and in denouncing your misinfo, threats and
intimidation techniques.
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
Member Is Offline
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A Mexican immigration attorney prepared this for me about 4 years ago. These are his words.
Even though FM2 documents are for immigrants and FM3 documents are for non-immigrants, and the categories within them are different along with their
respective requirements, in a practical sense they are almost the same. The reasoning behind this is that both provide permission to live in Mexico
for one year, they both can be renewed annually up to five years, and it takes the same amount of time (5 years) in order for you to acquire Mexican
nationality and citizenship.
In short, you can choose which ever FM2 or FM3 category you want and it does not make any substantial difference, except if you want to be employed
within Mexico only certain categories will do.
FM2 Rentista (Immigrant rentist)- When the immigrant plans to live off his own capital or the interest that it produces, coming from abroad or from
investments in Mexico (approx. $19,500 verifiable yearly passive income)
FM2 Inversionistas (Immigrant investor)- For immigrants that have made an investment within Mexico. The investment must be of at least $161,000.
FM2 Profesional.- For immigrants that will engage in professional economic activities in Mexico.
FM2 Familiares (Immigrant Family member) – For immigrants that will be economic dependents of a Mexican national to whom they have close family
relationship.
FM2 Asimilados (Assimilated Immigrant Family member) – For immigrants that have been at least two years legally in Mexico and have a close family
relationship with a Mexican national.
FM3 Visitante Rentista (Rentist visitor visa)- When the foreign national plans to live temporarily in Mexico off his own capital or the interest that
it produces, coming from abroad or from investments in Mexico (approx. $12,000 verifiable yearly passive income)
FM3 Visitante Inversionista (Investment visa) – For visitors that have made an investment within Mexico. The investment must be of at least $105,000
if made in a business or $161,000 if made in real estate. The legal fee is $2400 and external expenses are $600. The legal fee can be considered part
of the investment.
FM3 Visitante Profesional (Professional worker visa) – For visitors that will engage in professional activities in Mexico. The legal fee is $2200 and
external expenses are $2500.
FM3 Otros visitants (other visitors) – For visitors that are not described in other categories and have a family relationship with a Mexican national.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65407
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
DK,
The issue I have with your comments is that you are completely incorrect and yet you claim to be an expert on Baja. Your comments are so misleading as
to be conspicuous.
In this case and in the your other recent post you are not only misleading people about Baja but about legal issues.
If you think its insulting to be called out for being misleading, imagine how we feel about you. You are actively involved in a dinsinfo campaing that
would cause harm to people and further to Baja.
Of course, you will never apologize for your horrific behavior, and as always you squirm your way through trying to justify the most convoluted and
false points.
I am particularly concerned for a number of reasons: beyond the obvious concern for peoples well being, it seems that in this time of concern about
travel your comments hurt tourism greatly. While, you claim to support tourism, it seems your actions are largely otherwise.
Personally I have passion for the history of Baja, indigenous people and the Mission influence on culture. It is my concern that your actions are a
sever detriment to increasing interest in Baja, tourism and interest in Baja history.
Please, you clearly have no interest in the facts, if you did you would acknowledge the problem with your actions and the false statements you
promote. This is serious issue. If you persist in misinforming we will persist in correcting you and in denouncing your misinfo, threats and
intimidation techniques. |
Just to show you that it is YOU who are posting mis-information: I have NEVER claimed to be an expert on Baja, never.
There is nothing mis-leading about my comment on the visa, I was stating in the easiest terms a short, quick description of how I see the visas.. how
I see them.. and who they would apply to. I still don't see any errors in that. Find someone else to post errors about please.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
A Mexican immigration attorney prepared this for me about 4 years ago. These are his words.
Even though FM2 documents are for immigrants and FM3 documents are for non-immigrants, and the categories within them are different along with their
respective requirements, in a practical sense they are almost the same. The reasoning behind this is that both provide permission to live in Mexico
for one year, they both can be renewed annually up to five years, and it takes the same amount of time (5 years) in order for you to acquire Mexican
nationality and citizenship.
In short, you can choose which ever FM2 or FM3 category you want and it does not make any substantial difference, except if you want to be employed
within Mexico only certain categories will do.
FM2 Rentista (Immigrant rentist)- When the immigrant plans to live off his own capital or the interest that it produces, coming from abroad or from
investments in Mexico (approx. $19,500 verifiable yearly passive income)
FM2 Inversionistas (Immigrant investor)- For immigrants that have made an investment within Mexico. The investment must be of at least $161,000.
FM2 Profesional.- For immigrants that will engage in professional economic activities in Mexico.
FM2 Familiares (Immigrant Family member) – For immigrants that will be economic dependents of a Mexican national to whom they have close family
relationship.
FM2 Asimilados (Assimilated Immigrant Family member) – For immigrants that have been at least two years legally in Mexico and have a close family
relationship with a Mexican national.
FM3 Visitante Rentista (Rentist visitor visa)- When the foreign national plans to live temporarily in Mexico off his own capital or the interest that
it produces, coming from abroad or from investments in Mexico (approx. $12,000 verifiable yearly passive income)
FM3 Visitante Inversionista (Investment visa) – For visitors that have made an investment within Mexico. The investment must be of at least $105,000
if made in a business or $161,000 if made in real estate. The legal fee is $2400 and external expenses are $600. The legal fee can be considered part
of the investment.
FM3 Visitante Profesional (Professional worker visa) – For visitors that will engage in professional activities in Mexico. The legal fee is $2200 and
external expenses are $2500.
FM3 Otros visitants (other visitors) – For visitors that are not described in other categories and have a family relationship with a Mexican national.
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Since then, there was a small change in that he FM3 was ruled to not establish residency for 5 years, however there has been cases where people in la
Paz filed cases to note that the FM3 is/should be considered to establish residency for 5 years like the FM2 and of those cases many have been
accepted and those applicants were naturalized.
It should be noted, that INM or INAMI as they are now apparently called does not handle naturalization, so this hand off to SRE and the office of
exterior relations explains why the INM can not answer questions about Naturalization, of course.
Basically, you can see that there is some disconnect in the process, and it is organic and changing. And the so called time requirements of an FM2 are
only for qualifications so its fine to have an FM2 and fail qualifications for Naturalization and continue to establish a contiguous 5 year period.
Meaning, currently, anyone considering a FM3 should strongly consider a FM2 which is the recognized path to Naturalization. There are no drawbacks to
a FM2 over an FM3 and many benefits and no reason to be concerned abot the time limits as there is no "penalty".
http://www.sre.gob.mx/tramites/nacionalidad/tema1c.htm
http://www.bajainsider.com/baja-life/immigration/mexican-cit...
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
Member Is Offline
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Changing from a FM-3 to FM-2 is on my list of things to do.
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