BajaNomad - ROAD CLOSURE PROTEST

ROAD CLOSURE PROTEST

bajabound2005 - 8-17-2009 at 10:52 AM

I don't get it. Please explain.

mtgoat666 - 8-17-2009 at 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by noproblemo2
ROAD CLOSURE PROTEST

For info... reply to this post..

your post make absolutely no sense. is this a protest about global warming or health insurance reform or saving the whales?????????????????????????????

perhaps it is a protest about the sad state of education that has resulted in unintelligible internet posts??????????

bajalou - 8-17-2009 at 11:00 AM

I think they are protesting the closure of a needed road.

noproblemo2 - 8-17-2009 at 11:00 AM

The owner of the Punta Piedra project has put up a fence on a 100+ yr old historic road again, blocking our direct access to the Cuota, when we had the La Mision Fire 3 yrs ago the fire trucks weren't allowed to come through to help us and were forced to drive an extra 8 miles around, any medical rescues are also forced to do so, the "road" to get out of here now has been severely damaged by their trucks.

BajaGringo - 8-17-2009 at 11:03 AM

I think everybody would like a little more info/history/geography of what/where is going on as well as the developer's expressed motives and your communications with them to get a better sense of what this is all about.

:?:

ELINVESTIG8R - 8-17-2009 at 11:09 AM

Does the road have an easement clause? Or is there such a thing in Baja. If you have not already done so you may want to contact the Mayor and city officials who oversee the area in question. This could be a health and safety issue for them to consider. Maybe you will not need to protest.

BajaGringo - 8-17-2009 at 11:14 AM

Was this a paved road to the cuota or just a dirt access road created by locals? Don't forget that the cuota is federal property and there may be an issue with that. Not discounting the idea that an access may be a valid idea but if the access was not a paved, maintained one by federal goivernment it just may mean you will have to jump through some hoops to get it sanctioned and maintained...

SteveD - 8-17-2009 at 11:15 AM

When the Toll Road was being built in the mid 1960's the owner of Rancho Puenta Piedra hassled the construction crews so much that they did not put in an off-ramp there. He then tried to bootleg in a way to exit but the Toll Road people kept blocking it with bigger and bigger bolders!

Sounds like the new owners of Punta Piedra aren't any better!

When they were blasting the rock for the foundations for the bridge over the river at La Mision the rubble would fly in all directions, some of it going through roofs of the trailers that were there. More fun than the fireworks we had!

noproblemo2 - 8-17-2009 at 11:35 AM

This is the result of the last meeting with the Delegados, on 7/29/09

Local TV station interviewed a few people. The delagado got a number for the Punta Peidra land owner and he called him. The delagado said that the land owner was very aggressive with him ("agresivo" was his exact word). So that did not go well.

But I did learn that the person who is financing the Pemex and OXXO is the ex-wife of the prinicpal land owner (Curiel) and the gate might be there as a sort of retribution against the wife because it will certainly cut into business at the gas station.

Cypress - 8-17-2009 at 12:18 PM

Family, politics, and money . Solution? Family, politics and money. One of those endless loops. :biggrin:

dianaji - 8-17-2009 at 12:47 PM

yes, it was a surprise when i got off the ramp to enter the usual way to the entrance, therefore had to go to La fonda and go the back way through a rough dirt road. it was very inconvenient.

thank u susan for posting this!

noproblemo2 - 8-17-2009 at 01:13 PM

YW diana, but the road is/was actually paved until his trucks tore it up so badly.... See ya next visit..

David K - 8-17-2009 at 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by noproblemo2
ROAD CLOSURE PROTEST

Saturday September 5th 2009
2:00 - 4:00 P.M.

We need as many peoplle as we can get here...

On both sides of Gate at Km 70 exit. Bring a chair, your favorite beverage & Appetizers

Contact every media outlet & Dignitary you can to advise them of this event.... As well as anyone you know.

Heaven forbid we have another fire or medical emergency again where the rescue personnel are forced to drive the extra miles to help us, THIS HAS HAPPENED before...

Lets show the media what Punta Piedra is doing, we are forced to live like it is the Berlin Wall to see our friends or get to the Cuota and are forced to drive miles out of our way to get to them!

For info contact Camille, normcamille@yahoo.com or reply to this post..

You know this is a forum for ALL of the Baja peninsula. If you want more out of it, then please take a second to state WHERE you are talking about on the 800 mile long peninsula. More on why the protest would be great too!

From the follow ups, I get an idea it is near La Mision, BCN.

Thanks for thinking of the rest of us!

MikeLikeBaja - 8-17-2009 at 05:43 PM

I am not sure foreigners are allowed to protest anything in Mexico. Maybe they just can't be part of political protests. Be careful

TMW - 8-17-2009 at 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeLikeBaja
I am not sure foreigners are allowed to protest anything in Mexico. Maybe they just can't be part of political protests. Be careful

Maybe just get a chair and drink and watch the protesters protest. Probably a hundred feet away will be OK.

David K - 8-17-2009 at 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeLikeBaja
I am not sure foreigners are allowed to protest anything in Mexico. Maybe they just can't be part of political protests. Be careful

GOOD POINT!

I see that noproblemo removed her/his opening post... that will even add more to the confusion! It is captured in my reply just above, for reference.

dianaji - 8-17-2009 at 07:34 PM

it's a she and she is very active in her community owned by the ejidos in la mision . imo, people can protest...we are not puppets. are u saying we have no rights? there are also mexicans that live on that property.

David K - 8-17-2009 at 07:46 PM

That is correct, foreignors CANNOT be active in any Mexican politics... It is none of your business (in their minds).

woody with a view - 8-17-2009 at 07:55 PM

and so as to not help the powers that be, you should edit your reply DK and delete any id'ing info. Dianaji would be best served to also help out the affected "problemo" by editing her post and learning the ropes before sticking her neck into a noose in la mision...

i'm just sayin'

gnukid - 8-17-2009 at 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeLikeBaja
I am not sure foreigners are allowed to protest anything in Mexico. Maybe they just can't be part of political protests. Be careful

GOOD POINT!

I see that noproblemo removed her/his opening post... that will even add more to the confusion! It is captured in my reply just above, for reference.

It's unfortunate that DK would politicize this simple issue and mislead so many about basic community involvement.

DK as well as many others here are not residents, they have no interests nor experience and too often, as he does here, he misleads with misinformation jumping to conclusions which are totally unrelated and unfounded and distracting (which could be considered a political act).

It would appear that DK has more interest in fanning the flames of hyperbole than in addressing a basic community safety and access issue with a positive outcome.

Everyone has the right to pursue neighborhood access issues in a manner which is appropriate, non-violent and communicates the needs. This issue may or may not be resolved by raising the awareness but it is certainly not an issue which, at least at this point, is a subversive political issue.

The law about political protest, is specific to undermining the state, like tyranny or treason as exists in USA or practically anywhere. For example, to promote radical anti-government activities is strictly prohibited when it can be demonstrated to hurt the state.

An example of restricted behavior would be joining the Zapatistas and coordinating rallies for SubCommandante Marcos. Foreigners who are involved in this type of activity have been advised to stop. Yet they were not prosecuted.

This issue, at least as it has been communicated has to do with concern about blocking a road by a developers dispute. It is completely reasonable to investigate the issue, speak to the municipal government about the intended routes, and to ask for support to ensure safe passage and security as in the case of fire or emergency as was noted.

DK, please, again stay out practical Baja neighborhood issues where you have no interest nor experience and please do not make uninformed threatening insinuations which, in my opinion constitutes a threatening attempt at intimidation to the well being of the community and the state. You really need to look in the mirror and apologize to everyone here, again, for horrible behavior.

If you really had the best interests of Baja in mind couldn't you please be more thoughtful and educate yourself and refrain from outrageous and distracting comments that do nothing but discredit this site and hurt Baja overall.

dianaji - 8-17-2009 at 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeLikeBaja
I am not sure foreigners are allowed to protest anything in Mexico. Maybe they just can't be part of political protests. Be careful

GOOD POINT!

I see that noproblemo removed her/his opening post... that will even add more to the confusion! It is captured in my reply just above, for reference.

well said! i was surprised at his post. he has not walked in their shoes and is unaware of the situation that has cause much unhappiness and discontent along with the many unfair issues that have arisen of late in this community and i am happy that someone is doing something about remedying the situations to make this community a better place to live.

DENNIS - 8-17-2009 at 08:31 PM

I was about to scream, "Bloody Murder" till I read Gnu's post. He did it for me.
Thanks Gnu.

Pure bullcrap that being denied access to ones home and pitching a b-tch about it constitutes a political statement.
I get so sick and tired of people telling me how I should act in Mexico so as to be in the limits of the effing law. Why do I have to walk around this country on thin ice..afraid to fart lest it upset somobody's rendition of what's lawful.
What full colored crap.

dianaji - 8-17-2009 at 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
I was about to scream, "Bloody Murder" till I read Gnu's post. He did it for me.
Thanks Gnu.

Pure bullcrap that being denied access to ones home and pitching a b-tch about it constitutes a political statement.
I get so sick and tired of people telling me how I should act in Mexico so as to be in the limits of the effing law. Why do I have to walk around this country on thin ice..afraid to fart lest it upset somobody's rendition of what's lawful.
What full colored crap.

amen and halleluja! and that's the "effing" truth! hey dennis, it's a potluck...maybe u can bring some beer!

gnukid - 8-17-2009 at 09:35 PM

Suggested methods to communicate would be:

Shooting video and taking photos of the blocked road and communicating these to news stations, newspapers and municipal offices, preferably in well written spanish by community members.

Keep in mind that few people have the ability to gather data and communicate, let alone write, so those who do have the ability are looked to for leadership by those who do not. Be real, many people do not have cameras, computers or even paper and pencil. If you can help your neighbors who are affected and evn more so at risk you should.

Be polite, patient and to the point. Everything takes time.

David K - 8-18-2009 at 07:32 AM

What is bull is that the person who started this thread deleted her opening post...at least I preserved it by quoting her in my first reply.

As for the protest comment, I was repeating/ clarifying 'MikeLike Baja's post about protesting being illegal... and adding it is political protesting that is illegal.

What is the jumping on me all about here... If you think it is okay to protest in Mexico, then take it up with MileLikeBaja, okay gnu, et al?

k-rico - 8-18-2009 at 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Suggested methods to communicate would be:

Shooting video and taking photos of the blocked road and communicating these to news stations, newspapers and municipal offices, preferably in well written spanish by community members.

Keep in mind that few people have the ability to gather data and communicate, let alone write, so those who do have the ability are looked to for leadership by those who do not. Be real, many people do not have cameras, computers or even paper and pencil. If you can help your neighbors who are affected and evn more so at risk you should.

Be polite, patient and to the point. Everything takes time.

gnukid is right on the mark. Especially about being polite. Being confrontational in a machismo world will worsen the situation.

I'm involved in a neighborhood land use issue in Playas de Tijuana. There is an attorney involved representing the citizens who is communicating in writing with the local Delegado and other city officials. Copies of letters with official "received by" stamps and signatures are going all the way to the top (the city mayor Ramos, the city's chief engineer, among others). The letters are polite and factual.

My involvement is that I attend meetings of concerned citizens and speak my piece. Thankfully, most of the attendees, unlike me, are bilingual.

I'm happy that some of my statements have been used in the letters and therefore feel that I have contributed.

I also have taken digital photos (are there any other kind these days?) of the problem and emailed them to the attorney. He has written back thanking me for the photos and included printouts in his letters. He scans all his communications and then attaches the resulting file to emails he sends to those of us involved, keeping us up-to-date on the progress he's making.

This may all be for naught, but you have to try. It may work. Unlike the larger issues facing the city, this is something they can easily address.

BTW, the issue is about the use of ATVs on city property. Man do I wish those things were never invented. :fire:

[Edited on 8-18-2009 by k-rico]

DENNIS - 8-18-2009 at 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
BTW, the issue is about the use of ATVs on city property. Man do I wish those things were never invented. :fire:

Along with their evil twin, the jet ski.

David K - 8-18-2009 at 07:59 AM

You guys would hate San Felipe! :lol:

dianaji - 8-18-2009 at 08:21 AM

could we just be positive! one thing i loved about this forum was that i could come here to get some help...and i have! and then there are the ones/trolls who are negative, intimidating which does not support those newbies that come here to share and to receive helpful information...it has scared some timid souls from ever posting again. thanks to those that are always helpful.

k-rico - 8-18-2009 at 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
You guys would hate San Felipe! :lol:

That's true! And I don't get your laughing faces. Glad you think it's funny. I used to like San Felipe.

But it's all over baja. It used to be that bad roads meant good people. No longer true. Bad roads mean noisy, dirty motos and the inconsiderate slobs that ride them.

I just spent the weekend in La Bocana de Santo Tomas. Nice place, where else in Baja can you camp on grass beneath the shade of a tree, next to a river mouth and listen to the surf at night?

BUT, for about 4 hours on Sunday there was some idiot riding a very loud quad on the beach doing doughnuts and scaring away flocks of birds and the horses that were grazing nearby. He ruined my afternoon. I took a long walk up the road into the valley to get away from the marooon.

Then I got home to playas and listened to more jerks on their quads ripping up the beach.

Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread, just venting.

[Edited on 8-18-2009 by k-rico]

CaboRon - 8-18-2009 at 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeLikeBaja

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeLikeBaja
I am not sure foreigners are allowed to protest anything in Mexico. Maybe they just can't be part of political protests. Be careful

What part of "I am not sure" do you not understand?

Foreigners can be deported for any political expression,

From bumper stickers to actual protests ...

Only Mexican citizens can legally engage in political statements ....

David K - 8-18-2009 at 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Welcome to Baja Nomad: The Home of David K's Massive Misinformation on Baja

DK: 19316 misinformed posts and growing!

You and gnukid would make good teammates... How about some consideration for the massive amount of positive, educational, informative, interesting I have contributed here? Don't you even look at the trip reports and historic interests forums here?

It seems since you left Baja, all you do is post every negative news story about Mexico you can dig up... If you hate it so much, why chase others away from enjoying what most of us find in Baja? A glass can be half full, and not always half empty afterall...

gnukid - 8-18-2009 at 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeLikeBaja

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeLikeBaja
I am not sure foreigners are allowed to protest anything in Mexico. Maybe they just can't be part of political protests. Be careful

What part of "I am not sure" do you not understand?

Foreigners can be deported for any political expression,

From bumper stickers to actual protests ...

Only Mexican citizens can legally engage in political statements ....

If anyone has a link or reference to a person who was deported for a sticker, or a neighborhood access issue statement please provide it.

Here is the law:

Article 33 - Foreigners are those who do not possess the qualities determined in Article 30. They have the right to the guarantees of Chapter I of the first title of this Constitution, but the Executive of the Union has the exclusive right to expel from the national territory, immediately and without necessity of judicial proceedings, all foreigners whose stay it judges inconvenient. Foreigners may not, in any manner, involve themselves in the political affairs of the country.

ARTICULO 33. SON EXTRANJEROS LOS QUE NO POSEAN LAS CALIDADES DETERMINADAS EN EL ARTICULO 30. TIENEN DERECHO A LAS GARANTIAS QUE OTORGA EL CAPITULO I, TITULO PRIMERO, DE LA PRESENTE CONSTITUCION; PERO EL EJECUTIVO DE LA UNION TENDRA LA FACULTAD EXCLUSIVA DE HACER ABANDONAR EL TERRITORIO NACIONAL, INMEDIATAMENTE Y SIN NECESIDAD DE JUICIO PREVIO, A TODO EXTRANJERO CUYA PERMANENCIA JUZGUE INCONVENIENTE.

LOS EXTRANJEROS NO PODRAN DE NINGUNA MANERA INMISCUIRSE EN LOS ASUNTOS POLITICOS DEL PAIS.

Article 43 of the General Law of Population (Ley General de Población) states that:

"The admission to the country of a foreigner obliges him to strictly comply with the conditions established for him in the immigration permit and the dispositions established by the respective laws."

---

The key is a foreigner may be deported for demonstrating anti-government where the results can be determined.

So, let's say you supported a current policy-that is allowed, if you were extreme, radical, violent, subversive to current political regime, then you could be held responsible for your actions, over time some handful of people have been deported for extreme violent behavior but they were not prosecuted and they were allowed back.

Just as in the USA the case are extremely rare and it is not necessary to promote fear about being involved community actions such as access, quads on the beach, crime watch, charities or outreach.

Be reasonable, polite and you are well within the acceptable behavior.

And yes it is possible to be part of the process.

bent-rim - 8-18-2009 at 07:16 PM

All I can say is that David K has provided me with the most useful information about about Baja and it's conditions and history than anyone else. His website is fantastic. He is a valuable resource to this website,

Wealth rules

Dave - 8-18-2009 at 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
Was this a paved road to the cuota or just a dirt access road created by locals? Don't forget that the cuota is federal property and there may be an issue with that. Not discounting the idea that an access may be a valid idea but if the access was not a paved, maintained one by federal goivernment it just may mean you will have to jump through some hoops to get it sanctioned and maintained...

I think it is/was part of the old road that went over to Valle Guadalupe. And that road is very old. Don't know if it's still classified as one by the government but I do know it's poorly maintained, if at all.

Regarding Punta Piedra:

There are some very wealthy nationals who own homes there, including members of the family who own the Comercial Mexicana grocery chain. These folks value their privacy and security. If they want the road closed it'll be closed. Not defending it...just the way it is.

Give credit where credit is due...

ElFaro - 8-19-2009 at 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bent-rim
All I can say is that David K has provided me with the most useful information about about Baja and it's conditions and history than anyone else. His website is fantastic. He is a valuable resource to this website,

Speaking of which...Shouldn't David K be siting his sources when he provides historical information in his posts? He makes historical comments but doesn't credit the authors.

David K - 8-19-2009 at 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ElFaro

Quote:

Speaking of which...Shouldn't David K be siting his sources when he provides historical information in his posts? He makes historical comments but doesn't credit the authors.

Check again.. I do site my sources... and many are my own observations. See the missions web pages I recently updated http://vivabaja.com/missions1 I even site the historians who made mistakes!

Here is what you didn't read from my web site:

For more mission details, the 2002 book by Edward Vernon: 'Las Misiones Antiguas, The Spanish Missions of Baja California' is highly recommended: http://www.bajacaliforniamissions.com/

Another interesting read and an excellent guide to finding the mission sites is Dave Werschkul's 2003 book: 'Saints and Demons in a Desert Wilderness' (available from Amazon.com).

Primary books utilized for research include: 'Antigua California' by Harry Crosby, 'Missions and Missionaries of California' by Zephyrin Engelhardt, 'The Dominican Mission Frontier of Lower California' by Peveril Meigs, 'Black Robes in Lower California' by Peter Dunne... and more!

[Edited on 8-19-2009 by David K]

movinguy - 9-3-2009 at 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by noproblemo2
This is the result of the last meeting with the Delegados, on 7/29/09

Local TV station interviewed a few people. The delagado got a number for the Punta Peidra land owner and he called him. The delagado said that the land owner was very aggressive with him ("agresivo" was his exact word). So that did not go well.

But I did learn that the person who is financing the Pemex and OXXO is the ex-wife of the prinicpal land owner (Curiel) and the gate might be there as a sort of retribution against the wife because it will certainly cut into business at the gas station.

He doesn't have an ex-wife - get your facts straight.

[Edited on 9-3-2009 by movinguy]

[Edited on 9-3-2009 by movinguy]

wessongroup - 9-4-2009 at 05:14 AM

Could someone put up a map that shows where this gate is located?

Thanks for any help...

dianaji - 9-4-2009 at 07:25 AM

Good luck! wish i could be there...ii will be there in spirit. it will be great when one doesn't have to go 8 miles out of their way to get to their own homes.